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06:00 - 12:0012:00 - 22:00

6:14 AM
Goooood moorniiiiiiing CeeeeeShaaaarp! What the fuck is going on this week?
2
 
Definitely not fucking, not of a romantic nature at least
 
6:42 AM
@Neil Perhaps that of an animal nature then?
 
I wish my life were that exciting
 
 
ohayou
@Squirrelkiller ???!?
 
Exactly
 
7:18 AM
Hello all! Can I ask you for advice?
I have to start a new project where the client needs a native Windows 10 desktop application, as important requirements are going to be made intensive use on maps: drawing of a large number of elements on the map, drawing of custom polygons and lines, infowindows, contextual menus and most likely representation of 3D models (although this is not certain).

It's been a while since I've developed for desktop environments so I ask for your help and advice. Is UWP a viable and future option? Is WPF still an alternative? The most important thing from my point of view is to have a technology that
 
welcome to the dark side: electron
 
I need some formatting help here: stackoverflow.com/a/57969244/603765
 
@pablito Define "native Windows 10" desktop app?
Because WPF is not "native" either ;-P
 
As the clr was built for windows, I'd say WPF is native.
At least "native"
At least more native than electron
Fuck electron
 
But not native to Windows 10.
So... what exactly is defined as native here? If it's the look-and-feel, sure, I get that.
But... if it's the technology, why does a client CARE?
So long as it runs and does the job, a client should not dictate the tech used.
 
7:31 AM
@RoelvanUden Thats quite the key, I suppose the important thing is that it can run in Windows
the thing is I have already showed the client a UWP app, and he loves the performance, thats why I was thinking of UWP
But the important requisite is that it has to be a Windows 10 capable and standalone app
 
Right. In that case, almost any technology will work. Electron, WPF, UWP, whatever you want. I would look at the biggest hurdles in your requirements and choose the stack that makes accomplishing that the easiest.
 
But I would need a technology that has a good Mapping library or SDK
because the application is basicaly a Map where the client can do several actions and can visualize the terrain in a 3D way (not neccesarily 3D buildings. but preferred)
 
7:48 AM
AFAIK there are no map SDKs with 3D support, you'll have to write that yourself.
Going as far as 2D map libraries, I'd argue that JS has the best of them.
Because you know... maps are expected on the web.
 
I successfully draw 3D objects using MapControl of UWP but the documentation is very vague and new and is not working so well
@RoelvanUden yeah you are right, also the client needs the ability to still use the application being offline, using orthophotos
 
JS can do that.
For 3D... I guess you need to do your own map-to-3d translation and handle interactions. OpenGL/Direct X or maybe Unity?
Either way, it'll suck
 
@Squirrelkiller why fuck electron?
 
Because it's sexy
But don't go any further, it might get bad if you go too far
 
what do you mean
 
7:56 AM
@RoelvanUden it will suck why?
 
3D ain't fun.
Or easy.
 
thats true
 
You can just write javascript as simple as in a web app and boom you got a full desktop application. But start the thing empty and you immediately got 300mb of RAM standing around.
 
Unity was another option but I have 0 experience with it so is quite intimidating
 
I like Electron. Yes, it does add a bunch of overhead in terms of space and RAM usage, but on modern Desktops the footprint of it really is quite minimal. Besides, if you design your app around purely web technologies, you can do almost anything (including offline support) using your already-installed browser.
 
8:00 AM
Electron is all written in javascript?
or is like angular and Typescript?
 
Typescript too, yes. Its JS in disguise after all.
A very nice disguise tbf.
 
Typescript is nice
 
Electron doesn't specify the stack. It's just a browser engine with nodejs + native features. You can use HTML+JS if you want, or TypeScript, or anything else that compiles to JS. You can also use Angular if you want, or React, or anything else you like.
I personally like TypeScript+React+Mobx+MaterialUI for my stack. I'd add Leaflet for maps in this case. But that's just my very personal preference.
 
Hiya!
 
What is Mobx?
I have used leaflet before and I can say its a very nice library
 
8:08 AM
no idea what all that is
but id like to learn
what is ag ood way to learn?
also, i imagine that it is quite simple to maintain a web site and a desktop app using electron?
is that true/
 
@pablito You've used WPF, haven't you? I presume you used MVVM, the Model-ViewModel-View design? In this case, the ViewModel layer is MobX, and the view layer is React. Mobx is basically a very simple way to manage state and inform dependent components about changes in state, i.e. your views need to refresh when state changes.
 
cool thanks
 
Morning
 
@cubesnyc Yes it is, assuming your web site is designed properly and as a single-page application. If your web-site uses server logic, i.e. you're using ASP.NET MVC with Razor pages, then no, you can't just slap that in an electron app and call it a day.
 
well you can use asp.net mvc and just have api endpoints
but i get what youre saying i think
 
8:12 AM
Yep, when the server is designed as an API end-point, you'll be fine
 
got it, thanks
so when you download an electron app, ie whatsappdesktop/slack
youre really downloading node.js and chromium?
plus whatever else
 
When devops say everything is fine but you log into SQL Server monitor and it says 13483 ms memory wait time and 289 ms network wait time...
 
Yes, essentially that is what it is. There's tons of apps like that, e.g. Slack, Microsoft Teams, WhatsApp, etc.
 
My birthday is on november, I want a shotgun and a gun permit
 
Hell, Visual Studio Code is Electron-based so there's that.
 
8:15 AM
visual studio code is very useful
wish it had macros though
 
o/
 
@RoelvanUden lol! didnt know that
 
please someone get the joke
 
I don't get it
 
I get it after googling
its a transformer named macros right
 
8:18 AM
ahoy mateys
 
Omaigawd you uncultured swines.
 
ahoy
 
@RoelvanUden is that one of them robot dolls?
 
I don't do transformers
 
I'll have you know that the Macross movie (anime, Japanese) originally aired in 1982. Transformers came around in 1984. I'd argue that Transformers were just ripping of Macross. :-P
Macross is basically this movie/series universe about mecha's that transforms and songs that have cosmic power or whatever.
(I actually love Macross a lot)
 
8:22 AM
lmao
 
Electron is like PWAs for desktop
 
public abstract ParsedResult parse(Result theResult);
@Override
public AddressBookParsedResult parse(Result result)
 
Ew java
 
@Squirrelkiller Eh.. PWAs run on both desktop and mobile w/o custom stacks so, no.
 
Oh nice. Gotta try a PWA on desktop real quick.
 
8:24 AM
java overrides method and the method return the subclass of the original class
c# should learn this
 
PWA is definitely the future. :-)
 
Wait how do I do that I dont have the save to home screen button I have on mobile
 
What? A PWA always is visited in the browser and then a shortcut can be created.
 
tf is PWA
 
Ah you mean I just make a standard link?
 
8:27 AM
PWA = Progressive Web Application.
 
Progressive Web App
 
@Squirrelkiller Yes, it's just a website that can then be turned into a more 'native' feeling desktop/mobile app with its own window, icons, splash screen, and whatnot. That's where it gets the name "progressive".
 
Imagine you're on a website on mobile. Now you press "make link on home screen" in your browser. Now you have a new app on your home screen that works and feels like an actual app (except, you know, the usual performance problems of javascript apps on mobile).
 
Contrary to popular belief, JavaScript is not slow. It's usually inefficient DOM operations that make it slow, but that's just the developer fucking up resource management, the same as they can do on other stacks.
 
8:29 AM
Turns out I have never before made a website link directly form the browser on desktop before
But with JS it's easier to fuck up
And more fun
 
I am designing my new hobby app as a PWA.
It works great :-)
 
So I made a link on the desktop, but it just opens the web app
How do I make it save the pwa
 
That sounds like an even more gimped version of Electron
 
Wait this sounds like a question for google
it's more like the...integrated version of electron
 
@Squirrelkiller It only works on sites that actually have a PWA manifest.
 
8:31 AM
basically uses your browser
 
Javascript is fast. Emulating the DOM 50 times for your dodgy JS framework is not
 
This one has a PWA manifest. Works great on mobile.
 
haarrryy
 
I feel like I'm doing something fundamentally wrong
 
You probably are doing something fundamentally wrong
 
8:33 AM
Menu > More Tools > Create Shortcut (enable open as window)
In Chrome
 
Wasnt Macross the first mecha?
 
Stay chat.stackoverflow in browser while working was fundamentally wrong
 
My hobby app as pwa in chrome/desktop
 
Boss: i pay you to do jobs
Me: chatting
 
whynotboth.gif
 
8:37 AM
AH I see. FF doesn't have desktop PWAs yet.
 
Probably a good thing
 
Why is that a good thing?
 
See my opinions on electron
 
Oh that's just the cranky old man speaking out of Lee
PWA > electron
big time
 
do you work for manga company
 
8:39 AM
I mean
It's still running on the browser
Something something make a native app
 
"Install PWA"
Browser: OK here's a Link on your desktop, put it wherever, it looks like a real app when you open it but it's basically just a tab I open for you and make fancy with extra offline stuff.
Electron: LEMME JUST DOWNLOAD A WHOLE NEW NODEJS
 
So I can do an Electron app that access a local SQL Server Database for example?
 
Sqlectron can help you I think Ignore me I'm too lazy today
 
@nyconing No, that's a side-project in my free time. A hobby.
@pablito Sure.
 
@RoelvanUden have you thought about making an anime site that isn't literally infected with cancer?
and by cancer i mean 10 adverts on the page
 
8:44 AM
Just torrent the shows you want.
 
(Not including popups)
But Roel!
That's illegal!
 
Nah
Just the uploading part is illegal
 
Do you think those "free but infected popup cancer" sites are legal?
 
...i see your point
 
8:45 AM
Using them? Sure.
 
Your choices for legal anime are extremely limited; CrunchyRoll, Funimation, sometimes one or two shows on Netflix/Amazon.
 
So here's a question
If you made a site that hosted movies & shows
 
@Squirrelkiller Unfortunately not. Downloading is also illegal, which you're doing that way.
 
but didn't make any money other than operating costs
And you donated the rest of the income to ~charity
 
Maybe you can't use normal torrent anymore before you had legal troubles and are on some kind of unofficial watch list of some lawyers now...
 
8:46 AM
would that be illegal?
 
In Europe/The Netherlands even linking to sites where you can get shows illegally is illegal. Therefore Google is illegal. :-P
 
has anyone ever played giants?
it was a fun g ame
 
No, I'm to small for playing a giant, non the less multiple.
 
Giants: Citizen Kabuto is a third-person shooter video game with real-time strategy elements. It was the first project for Planet Moon Studios, which consisted of former Shiny Entertainment employees who had worked on the game MDK in 1997. Giants went through four years of development before Interplay Entertainment published it on December 6, 2000, for Microsoft Windows; a Mac OS X port was published by MacPlay in 2001, and the game was also ported to the PlayStation 2 later that year. In the game, players take control of a single character from one of three humanoid races to either complete the...
 
Anyway, the easiest way to scratch that anime itch is to buy yourself a CrunchyRoll sub (if you're in the USA) and use.. ahem... other means anywhere else (e.g. Nyaa.si+NordVPN).
 
8:47 AM
it was a fun game
 
im getting a 404 not found error when trying to reach a 404 not found custom error page
!!hmmm
 
So...extension explicit operator?
I want
 
C# does not support covariant return types
 
You are right, but what about my extension explicit operator?
I just wanna cast something
fancily
 
8:58 AM
When you cast in c#
but you cast fancily
 
so... if I use user32.dll and use functions like MoveWindow and GetForegroundWindow and such... I assume that it wont work on mac or linux devices
how can I achieve the same behavior for those?
 
use windows instead
 
that is a very viable solution actually
but I dont think my colleague is happy with that
you see, I wrote my own version of OnScreen Control by LG (dont worry, I dont write everything myself) and it worked pretty nice
 
Easy, use dotnet core without suer32.dll
 
but my colleague now has a new laptop... and he switched from windows to mac
does dotnet core have this functionality then?
 
9:04 AM
Well your colleague is a moron
mac is wack
Windows is for winners
 
\o/
thats why its called WINdows
 
our boss convinced him to use a mac
suddenly, my laptop started working flawlessly
no need for a new laptop anytime soon
;)
if I would switch, it'd be linux tho
I am not much of a fan of ubuntu, but I recently saw someone use a pretty damn good looking ui thingy
I have yet to ask what it was called
it might be manjaro
but then again, how do I get this functionality on mac or linux?
 
Your UI actually works decently on Mac/Linux? Was it WInForms?
 
my UI was swing :D
I write it as a JVM application
swing was the easiest framework to get an invisible overlay application
the application is placed as an overlay on your entire monitor setup
 
Oh. Uhh. No clue then.
 
9:18 AM
it should work pretty well as a cross platform application
except for the single core feature
moving your application windows
which I draw from user32
and I cant find anything on google that is like "user32 mac equivalent" or "MoveWindow mac"
hmm... I think I have to test if it doesnt already work
im not sure what "winehq" is, but it mentions that user32, setwindowpos behaves incorrectly
which means it still behaves
 
@Wietlol you could use the mono equivalent of user32.dll
that was cross platform before microsoft released .net core
 
@RoelvanUden AFAIK the easiest way to do cross platform UI is a .net core + AvaloniaUI
But it does not support all WPF features (havent checked its limitations either)
 
9:41 AM
This angers me
!Any() != All()
 
@bradbury9 I'd definitely go for HTML/JS with Electron for Desktop and Cordova for mobile. :P
 
@CaptainObvious !Any() == All(!)
right?
Boolean x = !datums.Any(it => it.IsEmpty());
Boolean y = datums.All(it => it.IsNotEmpty());
Assert.Equals(x, y);
 
CaptainOblivious maybe thats should be my new name
since captainoctopus didnt work
jk
 
9:58 AM
guys, could anyone give me some quick info in ways how can i protect my API beside some apiKey or token
 
use OAuth2.0
make someone else manage that authentication
in my case, I leave it for AWS Cognito
I just mark my endpoint as OAuth2.0 protected and it works :D
 
@Veljko89 use OAuth in combination with a token
 
(after I specified the user pool, scopes and everything)
 
let the tokens naturally expire after some time, and then user would have to authenticate again
 
make it expire in 5 seconds :)
anyone else using JIRA?
 
10:14 AM
@Wietlol yeah, they are having issues right now
Fukin rip
 
I mean sure they hvae the same result
But one is much more efficient than the other
 
one is not like the other
 
am doin' a hunger
i cannot eat until 1:30
as is tradition
@CaptainObvious can you bring me my sandwich today
pls
 
Mate I need to go get my own
 
I think I might write my own JIRA
:)
or... nvm
JIRA würks again
back2würk
 
10:27 AM
one hazelnut and a squirrel is fed
 
give a squirrel one hazelnut, and you solve its hunger for a day
give a squirrel one knife, and you solve its hunger for its entire lifetime
 
@CaptainObvious well when you get yours, get me one too and bring it over pls
I'm only a short trip under the mersey away!
 
Nah fuck that that's far too much effort
And I think the fast tag is low
 
@Wietlol hehe
but then it would become a criminal
and rob ppl
its doing a home invasion
criminal squirrel
 
I mean
I have a tenner on me so i guess i could go to subway or something
whats that comic about coding on a white background and being a serial killer
was it an xkcd?
 
10:42 AM
drop the knife !
points gun
 
this is the only one I recall of a serial killer
 
oh so im a serial killer too
great
\o/
i must be shizophrenic
because I didnt know
so im a shizophrenic serial killer with multiple personalities
and that's how it ends !
 
But it was only a matter of time
before they turned each other on
leaves
 
lmao
 
@Wietlol thats the exact one i wanted
honestly @Hans1984 what the f
where do you find these squirrel imags
 
10:58 AM
haha i just searched squirrel knife at first
and then i picked some fighting
im an expert on finding memes and funny gifs/pics
since i did that for so long with cats
no, anyway
I cant recall how you make cap show it right away
 
thanks!
 
i think you need it at the end ?
or " too
 
11:00 AM
something like that
hmm
 
!!learn squirrels <>https://i.imgflip.com/1plwjb.jpg
 
@CaptainSquirrel Command squirrels learned
 
!!squirrels
 
fixed it
 
11:01 AM
great !
\o/
 
Can you recommend any good UWP book?
 
I'd start with the MS docs
 
11:26 AM
@CaptainObvious github.com/mgravell/fast-member for your terrible code from yesterday
 
@CaptainObvious sooooooooo where's my sammich
 
poor murderous squirrels
 
Serious question: Is UWP actually used widely enough to have an actual community? With books and help and resources and whatnot?
 
From personal experience I'd say no, but I don't have experience with people using modern frameworks and stuff.
 
11:36 AM
Last time I did anything with UWP was around 2016, and I can say that it was hard to get much advanced stuff done
the most I ever did with UWP was made an app that showed a different picture+text depending on which button was clicked
 
Avner works with UWP actually
Their product is in UWP. Like, a real product that companies pay money for.
And IIRC the biggest obstacle was making it run on multiple screens.
 
I remember my university had a "windows development" club that had a huge group of people come during the callout...and then the club actually started with like 10 people because most were expecting "actual" Windows development
 
Huh. So the one thing that makes UWP appealing was hard to do?
 
Can anyone tell me why this line in xml files sometimes gets marked as changed, without actually changing as far as I can see?
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
And yes, the utf8 lines also get marked as changed without actually changing
Found intel:
Apr 15 at 11:25, by Avner Shahar-Kashtan
And the UWP app is our main product, and it's designed for three 1920x1080 monitors, horizontal.
Around there somewhere I'd guess
 
11:57 AM
just found a comment from @MadaraUchiha on some random blog site...feel like a stalker
 
@CaptainSquirrel You keep asking but I keep not providing
Teens are well known for stalking
 
thats unfortunate seeing as im 20
 
Being 20 pregnancy terms old makes you 15 years old you know
 
...what
what are you talking about you fuckin weirdo
 
lol
good old harry
o/
 
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