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mr5
mr5
01:35
o/
\o
\o/
M
C
A
01:50
:41598820 nice password
mr5
mr5
lol
my colleague's keyboard suddenly connects to my Mac
yeah, sure it was your colleague ;P
 
4 hours later…
mr5
mr5
05:29
lock (object) { }
SemaphoreSlim(1);
AutoResetEvent(true);
Mutex();
Monitor(Enter/Exit, Pulse/Wait);
seems to do the same thing: they block
user5500750
05:48
Which one has more features: ASP.NET Core Web Application or ASP.NET Web Application (.NET Framework)?
user5500750
I have have to create an API that will be used for a mobile and desktop app and a website. I haven't done this in a while so I am trying to decide which is the best option.
user5500750
Strictly on MVC.
mr5
mr5
We use the portable version. I'm not sure which is it
Please tell MS to make a one word name for their tech so it doesn't confuse us
user5500750
The only advantages I can see is with ASP.NET Core I can build for Windows, macOS, or Linux
user5500750
ASP.NET Core?
user5500750
05:53
ASP.NET Web Application (.NET Framework) isn't portable I think.
mr5
mr5
But I'm not sure if it's ASP. They only said it's .NET Core
Are you planning to do Xamarin?
user5500750
Yes, I have to do that as well. But in the same solution in a different project
user5500750
And I have to make sure the website and API share the same database
mr5
mr5
That's our setup. I can see the Web Services in our project on the same solution. We even share the same Enums and constants.
user5500750
A web service? WCF?
mr5
mr5
05:56
It's quite easy to do the mapping from DTO to Domain Model without asking the other end
It's just a basic web services for our app. I'm not fond of MS acronyms, sorry
user5500750
user5500750
I suppose I'll go with ASP.NET Web Application (.NET Framework) because it supports SignalR
mr5
mr5
Choose .NET Core and ASP.NET Core
user5500750
06:04
Sorry, I am just posting it here to see whether I get some objections from it.
mr5
mr5
ASP.NET Core also supports SignalR
user5500750
I feel ASP.NET Web Application (.NET Framework) has more features or prebuilt in settings for MVC website and API so I will go with that.
posted on March 13, 2018 by Scott Hanselman

I've been upgrading my podcast site from a 10 year old WebMatrix site to modern, open source ASP.NET Core with Razor Pages. It's off IIS and now running cross-platform in Azure. I added Application Insights to the site in about 10 min just a few days ago. It was super easy to setup and basically automatic in Visual Studio 2017 Community. I left the defaults, installed a bit of script on the cl

user5500750
I don't suppose Scott moved away from ASP.NET Web Application (.NET Framework) to ASP.NET Core Web Application the opposite of what I am trying to do?
mr5
mr5
06:14
That's because the portable versions is the shit right now. You better switch fast
user5500750
UWP is the shit right now (or at least I hear Microsoft is concentrating on it) yet WPF is way better.
mr5
mr5
UWP is dead
They dropped the project already
user5500750
There goes portability.
user5500750
I don't think ASP.NET Core supports NuGet packages.
mr5
mr5
It does
Oh sorry, it was Windows Phone that is dead, not UWP
06:29
Yeah windows phone is dead
You'd better switch from WPF to UWP
since, as far as I know, WPF doesn't support .NET Standard. @LogicDev
WPF and Windows Form
user5500750
Not for my latest app.
Yeah so, try to migrate on your next project.
Same logic from WPF those data binding etc. MVVM thing you name it.
But using .NET Standard, you are just spreading your reach.
06:52
good morning
what's benefits of making build action of a txt file Embedded over content,
I have a txt file that I will read from it and replace some values to generate scripts, should it be embedded or content
07:12
Good morning.
@MohamedElshawaf Do you want the file to be part of your DLL/EXE, or do you want it sitting as a separate file in your installation folder?
that's why I asked the benefits of both, why I'll choose one over the other, if they both available in code and I can read from it?
If it's embedded, you have to recompile and redeploy to make a change in the file. If it's in a loose file, you (or your end user) can make changes.
Putting files into your DLL/EXE means loading them up into memory, too. Depending on the size of the files, you can be wasting an awful lot of memory doing that. You also need to re-compile for changes. A separate file is in every way better, except that users can edit it (might not be wanted) and you need to make the installer deploy that, too, rather than (perhaps?) a single exe-file.
\o
Rachel Ferrigno on March 13, 2018

Each year, we ask the developer community about everything from their favorite technologies to their job preferences. This year marks the eighth year we’ve published our Annual Developer Survey results—with the largest number of respondents yet. Over 100,000 developers took the 30-minute survey this past January. This year, we covered a few new topics ranging from artificial intelligence to ethics in coding.

See the Results Here

DevOps and machine learning are important trends in the software industry today. Languages and frameworks associated with these kinds of works are on the rise, and developers working in these areas command the highest salaries. …

@RoelvanUden yo.
07:22
@RoelvanUden that means i'll opt-in the content option, the file will not change for a long run , and it's used by the developer only
thanks
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan o/
@MohamedElshawaf Those... look like good cases for the embedded option.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan but why if i'll have to compile it, it's a static file that will not change.
@MohamedElshawaf If it doesn't change, there's no problem with it being embedded in the EXE. Having it as content allows you to make changes easily with recompiling, but you don't need that. And if it's in use only by the developer, you don't want it exposed to the user.
07:30
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan ah I see, so when it's embedded it will not be available as a txt file in final output?
No.
It also means the code to read it is different.
thanks, I'll read more about it and make test app to learn more
Morning all
anyone into automation here
"into automation"?
Like ... programming things?
In a programming language chat room ...
mr5
mr5
aren't we all?
07:43
I guess you'll find at least one or two people interested for sure.
how about using selenium etc... lol
Yeah, I'm really into automatons, if you know what I mean.
Oh, you said automation. Never mind.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I don't even know what that means lol
mr5
mr5
what's up with i?
how do you instantiate a parameterized ViewModel from XAML?
> au·tom·a·ton
ôˈtämədən,ôˈtäməˌtän/Submit
noun
a moving mechanical device made in imitation of a human being.
@mr5 Type parameters or constructor parameters?
mr5
mr5
07:49
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan paramterized c'tors I mean
and I mean by parameters, are those injected by IoC
mr5
mr5
and some POCO
If your VMs are created by the IOC container, they shouldn't be specified in the XAML.
You should have some sort of ViewModelLocator that automatically wires up the view to the VM.
mr5
mr5
aren't there other way to do it in XAML?
I would imagine it's quite complicated to do it. So, I should resort in to code
@Mathematics I think you need to clarify a bit what you want to do. "Automation" is extremely broad.
Looks like Selenium is used for unit testing websites?
07:57
@mr5 For any non-trivial project (and if you have IoC, you're probably non-trivial), you should never instantiate your viewmodel inside your view.
It means that the only place that has a reference to your VM is your view. Lets say this view is now part of a larger view, and you want the larger view's VM to contain the view's VM (say, a MainPageViewModel containing a HeaderViewModel). If your Header.xaml instantiated HeaderViewModel directly, you're stuck.
Let the views have their hierarchy, and the viewmodels have their, and use binding to connect the two, or infrastructure like Prism's ViewModelLocator, not direct instantiation.
mr5
mr5
What if I don't want any reference from the VM?
mr5
mr5
The context is, I have this Tab Layout Page, and I'm refactoring each tab to have their own VMs. These VMs doesn't need to communicate with its parent VM
I could probably just make a parameterless c'tors and retrieve each services using the Resolver
mr5
mr5
why?
is that bad?
08:04
First of all, because I prefer constructor injection to Service Resolver calls, and I don't want to let XAML's stupidity change that.
I think the same as Avner
Secondly, because letting the view instantiate the viewmodel directly defeats the whole point of using IOC at all. You're letting the View do new ViewModel here. Instead of letting the VM be a dependency, you're explicitly owning it from the view.
You're locking yourself in.
And you don't want that ...
mr5
mr5
okay. lemme undo all my shitty work
why do they even include this feature if it sucks
Because WPF is a mix of old winforms and new WPF.
08:12
@WilliamMariager I am sick of creating new emails
address
urlencode(createguid())@domain.tld
There you go
I'm writing a tool right now, not part of the main app. It's a simple one-page application to manage a list of entities. I'm instantiating the VM directly from the view here.
mr5
mr5
how can we tell to XAML compiler to use our IoC instead of directly instantiating it?
good morning
You don't/.
You use tools like Prism or MVVMLight that have automatic resolvers for that.
08:14
Don't add MVVMLight without reading what it does
It adds a bunch of classes to your project. Caught me by surprise. :P
C# dropped to Python this year in stack overflow survey
Are there any serious Python projects that aren't research related? I've only ever seen Python used as a scripting language inside other things.
I know quite a few startups in the cybersecurity fields which use python almost exclusively.
user5500750
Probably it had more beginner votes than experienced developers.
That's interesting Avner. I'm obviously not part of any communities related to Python, so I don't know these things.
08:23
@mr5 I have something like that: stackoverflow.com/a/34308379/1859959
Exactly. I was sure it was a fringe/niche thing too until I was exposed to the areas where its used.
extended with IoC framework.
user5500750
The django framework is very popular if you need another example.
It's used a lot for data science and number crunching - not only in academic contexts, but in actual production work as well.
The good side is python can pretty much do anything you want. But know the adage '
whoever takes a lot of space, the less he tightens up'.
08:29
I'm pretty sure C# can do pretty much anything I want. :P I don't think that's the reason it's popular.
user5500750
It is the worst when it comes to GUI programming.
Nah it can't do anything you want. I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of things it kind of grasps but doesn't acknowledge
mr5
mr5
@ntohl might be because of the emerging popularity of AI?
it probably can do anything you want in your environment though
@HéctorÁlvarez So just like pretty much any other mainstream programming language? :P
08:30
but I don't see myself building a kernel for 32MB machine in .NET
You can do that in python?
I've no idea
It was just a blurry example
Okay, so you're just kinda saying things
:D
if Python have managed code, that is an interesting question
Also, look up the .NET Micro Framework. I think it's been discontinued, but it was used similarly to Arduino.
08:32
Lol, kinda. I know where I want to go to, but I just arrived and there's no coffee so my grey matter is not working as it should
Could've easily been used to make your own kernel.
@HéctorÁlvarez It's not about what it can do, but what it can easily do. We replaced an app's extension/plugin engine from C# to python because 90% of what we needed was to access a 3rd party REST API, parse the results and create a simple object from them and pass it back to the app. Python was A) more widely supported among the vendors we were connecting to, and B) extremely easy to write, test and deploy.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan entities ?
The write-test-deploy loop for a new python plugin was about 30 minutes. For C#? 4 hours. Because we needed a whole commit-build-deploy pipeline for the C# project.
what entities
08:33
@Mathematics Business entities in my project.
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos squirrelerinos pleberinos!
I think accessibility is the driving factor behind something like Python. C# is scary because of Visual Studio.
user5500750
You can write Python in the console but you couldn't with C#
user5500750
So it is a lot easier to access.
JavaScript isn't exactly a great language, but it's easy to get into. All you need is notepad and a browser.
08:35
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Good point. I couldn't read it out loud without making a long awkward silence every few words... Dude I need coffe now.
@LogicDev Yeah, things are improving with C# on that aspect. Roslyn and VS Code is making it more accessible for everyone.
user5500750
None of you use Python you should use it more often.
user5500750
This argument about why it is popular will become very clear.
user5500750
Python is your best friend when it comes to writing automation systems.
@WilliamMariager you know nothing about life!
@LogicDev Wrong! What about the interactive [... word missing in my brain ...]?
08:38
@WilliamMariager so far all I need is pray to the gods that it won't be me maintaining the project
1 thing I don't understand. Why is MariaDB is so less used than MySQL
user5500750
Interactive?
Interactive Console
@LogicDev How does it make automation easier?
exactly
user5500750
08:39
Does anyone here use Python?
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan you mean big corporations that create legal companies to reduce tax ? lol
@LogicDev Sounds like Avner does
@Mathematics What? No. Just objects in my system. Business objects. POCO. Data entities. Where are you going with this?
@LogicDev I used it in my last project.
@ntohl Because MySQL has name recognition, a longer history, and the false belief that Oracle being behind it is a good thing?
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan oh sorry, I thought it was something else
user5500750
It is the best language for automation scripting right?
08:41
@ntohl Thank you
user5500750
Scripting websites
user5500750
Testing websites
*shrug*. It's a nice language, python. But it's a language. It's good for the things it has good libraries for.
user5500750
Organising files
I suppose it would be good for that
I haven't written any such automation scripts in it.
Not because I was writing it in anything else, yes? Just because I haven't been automating many things.
user5500750
08:42
That's automation
@LogicDev Got any examples of why it's better? Getting Avner to agree it's good isn't exactly a great argument. :P
@WilliamMariager Hey!
It's a DAMN good argument.
It's authoritative, but not exactly a consensus.
user5500750
08:43
The main reason why it is the best is because it is a lot accessible on the desktop than anyother language.
user5500750
The compile is always running in the background.
It's not though.
It's just popular and used.
@Squiggle Appeal to authority! Appeal to authority! It's one of those logical infallibilities, isn't it?
You could do the same with C#.
user5500750
After waiting for Visual studio to load
user5500750
...and writing long class files.
No ...
With Roslyn, you get all the things you've mentioned so far.
user5500750
And if you can afford Visual studio
mr5
mr5
Python is not the best. It's just easy to find anywhere
08:45
And even if you need Visual Studio, it's free.
mr5
mr5
in sewer, in forest, you name it
user5500750
But you need an editor
@mr5, That's the point I'm trying to make. It's just more widely used.
Nothing sets it apart.
VS is free enough for light work, and there are free alternatives too.
@LogicDev, You need the same for Pyhton?
mr5
mr5
08:46
@WilliamMariager but you should be careful of using it
user5500750
No you don't
mr5
mr5
because it bites
@LogicDev Are you trolling or something?
Code doesn't exactly write itself ...
But yeah, C# has a slower dev cycle.
user5500750
You don't need an editor to run or write Python
08:47
Not much, but it's still noticeable when you're exploring code, when you're in a right code-execute-tweak-execute loop.
Same for C# ...
user5500750
You can write it in the console.
user5500750
And most developers/researchers probably do.
Like with C#?
You can use ScriptCS to run interpreted C# code, but it's not really the common usage.
08:47
Like I said, Roslyn has all these things.
I prefer IDE for python... now name one :P
user5500750
You should use Python more often
Python isn't doing anything you can't do with C#. It's just more widely used, which is a self reinforcing effect.
PyCharm is may favorite Python IDE.
I liked PyCharm
user5500750
08:48
Of course it isn't
@WilliamMariager That's a meaningless truism. It's doing a lot of things differently, which makes it better for some tasks.
Goood morning sharperinos!
The feedback loop you get from executing C# code is usually measured in tens of seconds, even if you just want a small console app to do something small. The same thing in python would have a feedback loop of seconds. It's a small difference, but important for this sort of work.
Would this be meaningful when writing larger-scale apps? I don't know. I haven't written large apps in python. I tend to believe this advantage would be lost, and other facets of python would be a bit more painful.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Can You point me to that name recognition? What it is?
But for what it does well, it definitely does it better than C#.
user5500750
08:50
Would I choose being able to write 1 line of code and see it executing and seeing the results before writing the next line? Or create an entire project in Visual studio for a simple task like renaming files.
user5500750
...or downloading images from the internet
Do you have some concrete examples though Avner? I'm sure it's different, but how is it better? C# with Roslyn is a full scripting engine, with a command line parser, reduced bloat since you don't need classes and runs instantly.
user5500750
Pretty obvious
You haven't seen C# interactive
@ntohl MySQL has been around for 20 years. People know it and (relatively) trust it. Even if they know it's not as big as SQL Server or Oracle, it's a familiar name. Even thogh MariaDB is MySQL, people will hesitate to adopt it as their DB, because it appears to be an unknown.
08:52
I know Python is used more and tested more. And Roslyn is late to the party for sure. But how is Python better than C#?
@WilliamMariager Roslyn has, indeed, narrowed the divide tremendously.
Yes it has.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan loool. I thought it's a framework feature :D Now I understand it's recognition of the name "MySQL"
@LogicDev You're completely ignoring what I'm writing about Roslyn ...
But ask a C# developer to write some throwaway code to get some JSON from a web service, and he'll write a console app, using HttpClient and dump it to disk, and it will take them 3 minutes. A python dev would do it in 30 seconds. I'd say that 95% of C# devs don't know what Roslyn is.
08:53
Like I've said several times now, it gives you all the things you keep saying about Python.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Which is attributed to it coming in late to the party.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Or open a SoapUI/Fiddler or something like that.
@WilliamMariager Yes. The tooling is lagging way behind. You don't have an interpreter IDE that can give you the sort of feedback that PyCharm can. Nuget command-line support is only now getting usable, whereas pip has been around for years and is stable and mature.
skipping the whole which programming language part
Speaking of. I have an API which returns a JSON-encoded object with some fields (id, version, name, etc) and a string field, Body, which contains an internal object, itself probably json-encoded as well. The envelope object doesn't know or care about its structure, which is why it's a string.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Which just confirms my earlier point. Python is widely used because it's widely used. It was better and has become a standard. But today it's not better in any way I can see.
Except for being widely adopted.
08:57
Now, on my client side, I have an object for the body (TemplateBody) and one for the external object (Template, with the Body field), but in my object, Body is, naturally, not a string.
I'm wondering how to build it os I don't have to have a duplicate Template object (with string Body) and a manual conversion to my Template.
@WilliamMariager And having more mature tooling. That not just adoption, that's a concrete thing.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan ta
halp. I'm grouping by a nullable int and it's doin' my head in.
var x = collection.GroupBy(o => o.Foo) // where Foo is int?
I want to have a grouping of <int, Bar> and not <int?, Bar>
I have a hangover and I can't figure out how to do this neatly
var x = collection.GroupBy(o => o.Foo ?? default(int))
@Squiggle Where would you want the null ints to be grouped?
var x = collection.Where(o => o.Foo != null).GroupBy(o => o.Foo.Value)
09:10
^^
Or maybe Where(o => o.Foo.HasValue). Same thing.
ah yeah that's got it! Thanks
I couldn't brain.
stupid team building events
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I have seen too much F# lately, so I would suggest to have a railway model, where we would handle the success case, and the failure case on different tracks. First success track is to try convert string Body into parsable string. Than on failure track try convert with JSON decoded version. Than plug in the next railway step which is the selection of body
@Squiggle we don't have any :(. Last companies had nice team building events
@ntohl I ended up just adding a [JsonConverter] attribute on the TemplateBody Body {get;set;} property which de/serialized to/from a string.
18 lines of code, whitespace included. Not too bad.
noice
oracle db 11.1%. Too much. Just too much...
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan That's what I did for a few things too. With product information I have things like EAN/GTIN/GLN which are just numbers. I have special objects to handle and validate them. But I just want them to serialize to a string and back.
09:17
I've said it yesterday, I'll say it again - I really hope James Newton-King is somehow compensated for the amazing work he's done for .NET devs everywhere.
His JSON Schema stuff works nicely. Better than any alternative I've tried.
And it's a paid piece of software.
mr5
mr5
do you think talking instead of typing the code is more productive?
"go to line 436, filter thisList by it's type property"
I wanna learn AI so I could do that
heck, it does exist already:
yo yo im back again
mr5
mr5
09:24
"make an app that would make me a billionaire"
@mr5 thats so 2013
mr5
mr5
@Squirrelintraining why aren't you using it then?
Cuz we are like soo 1982
mr5
mr5
well, not doing all the code but it can somehow increase productivity. like, "hey, open the Immediate window"
we are the future call centers!
mr5
mr5
09:26
imagine a noisy cubicle
You know there exists hotkeys?
mr5
mr5
yep. but we got no time fo dat
no time to lose
Make it dynamic!
!!giphy no time to lose
mr5
mr5
statyc
C-Sharpe dot nette
mr5
mr5
Vischual Schtudee
Voice command is a lot like, say, the hand-wavey-thingie that Tom Cruise does in Minority Report.
When you first see it, you say "Whoa, this is amazing, it will revolutionize UI forever!"
And then you think a bit and say "Wow, my arms would get really tired really fast if I used that for everything"
mr5
mr5
09:37
Syncing AI neurons to cloud...
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan +1
Isn't Elongated Muskrat working on some neural interfacing?
Oracle db 63.1% dreaded
why is Drupal a platform?
09:40
Because without it JavaScript would've died
@WilliamMariager I think he's busy reinventing the bus right now.
@ntohl As in, "why is it called a platform and not a product", or "why oh why does it still exist"?
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan :D first at the moment :D
than comes the second question in order
mr5
mr5
@WilliamMariager we should study AI on our spare time
"spare time"
Funny
@ntohl Because people build apps on top of it.
09:43
and why is VIM is better "IDE" than PyCharm?????
it's a text editor. Not an IDE
Vim is very productive for people who've put in the hours to get to know it. Yeah, it's an editor, not an IDE.
Sorry, did I say hours? I meant long, excruciating months.
ohh. SysAdmin/DevOps people voted it up.
So baisically you say, It's not worth it?
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I have done my job of learning Vim well...
it's worth it. Now I'm hipster :D
09:46
@Squirrelintraining What, vim? I don't use it. I won't recommend it. I appreciate where people who do are coming from.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan But what makes it better than C#?
(j/k)
:D
@WilliamMariager Well, it's a text editor. Is C# a text editor? I didn't think so. Ergo, C# is terrible.
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan VS has a texteditor
09:49
I don't get it. Programmers primary operating sytem is Windows 49.9% vs linux 23.2%, but their first platform is linux 48.3%...
@Squirrelintraining That's just VIM with a paintjob!
xD
I liek MS paint
checkout my keyboard usage
@ntohl see? vim is even a part of vimeo!
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan glorious
09:54
@mr5 actually that was pretty good
hello Guys
Bye bye

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