last day (123 days later) » 

17:58
Welcome nerds!
allo
better get started HUGE list to get through
What are our guidelines for pinning messages? Sometimes people disagree about whether a message should be pinned.
3
I think we don't need guidelines and what we do now works.
18:01
This topic was mostly inspired by an argument I had with @rlemon over pinning jokes
Yeah, this was an issue at one point
If you want to pin something and someone else feels against it and it's not important let it go
as long as they are removed in a timely fashion it seems fine how it is honestly
I think that pinning should be left for serious announcements.
2
18:01
@SecondRikudo what about instances like "hey give me info for my blog post"
I can live with that, sure.
I agree with both @BenjaminGruenbaum and @Loktar
Jokes are nice and all. If they get stars they get stars.
is that really an important announcement?
I'm not against those kind of pins either, but they are self serving not really an announcement
Can we not star every message please?
4
18:02
....
@Loktar No, it isn't. And I tend to agree.
@its_notjack are you staring everything?
Such things are better off in the stars.
@Loktar I think asking for a favor like that from time to time is okay (but not for every blogpost someone writes)
However, if someone wants to put it up there, and it doesn't bother anyone, I'm fine with it.
18:03
I think it's fine to pin a joke message for several hours, as long as it's not just stupid an annoying
It's the jokes that kind of bother me.
@rlemon As a joke. I unstarred everything that I didn't feel needs to be starred
Same goes for advertising personal projects
@Loktar that's fine imo.
@KendallFrey Define "stupid" or "annoying"
18:03
yeah :/
I consider "Friday" and "Rickroll" to be both of those things.
@copy yeah I mean I agree, I guess my point is if we keep them for announcements only I think you hit a greay area
Some of you may not.
Jokes should be out. If they get stars, so be it.
Not pinned please.
generally if I see 4 or more pinned messages I start unpinning
some rickrolls are pin worthy tbh
18:04
^
and itll be less important ones first, like jokes obv
as long as they are not left for days, I say allow them
3
@rlemon It's not the left for days thing that bothers me.
I look at the starred post to see interesting messages
I realize that.
18:05
And pinned posts to see semi-important announcements.
Honestly the Friday thing has been going on for 5 years
we disagree on the point of whether they should be allowed at all. I just suggest we allow them, within reason.
people just need to accept it lol
If you want something for several hours, let it have its place in the starred posts.
There's absolutely no need for it to be pinned.
The room's professional level is dictated by what maybe 5 people say/do anyway so it's too much to ask that everything pinned is good professionally.
18:06
Or at the very least
That is - there are maybe 5 people who post things that are interesting professionally in the room.
Don't complain when I unpin it :)
that is the point of this. there doesn't need to be a pin/unpin war
I find the jokes pretty lame too, but I don't mind them
18:07
Has there been an issue where a joke pin has caused something important to be unpinned?
@copy Me neither. In the stars.
If you as RO see something doesn't need to be pinned, always feel free to remove it
2
This whole discussion is really stemming from a pin war that happened
@Loktar not to my knowledge
If you see something humoristic that's irrelevant or in poor taste in your opinion and want to unpin it - go for it.
18:08
I can agree with that.
Eh that doesn't solve the issue though really
because someone else could think it was funny and repin.. causing another pin war
because you will still have people who think all jokes are irrelevant in the pins and will therefore remove any seen. the proposal from @SecondRikudo that we not allow them in pins should be addressed.
do we allow them (in reason) or perma ban them out of principal ?
2
My stance is that if it's good they'll get stars and be visible for a few hours/days
18:10
We allow them in reason, but if they bother another RO they may unpin them.
We allow them, but they can be removed after 2 hours
You can even use the pin/unpin trick to star it yourself, I don't mind.
@copy I'm cool with that.
^ same
@copy So why pin them at all?
18:10
@SecondRikudo The 'pin/unpin trick'?
I think several hours isn't too much time to be pinned
That's what the stars are for
keeps em at the top for two hours*
@SecondRikudo Because it's kinda funny
23 secs ago, by Second Rikudo
That's what the stars are for
18:11
@SecondRikudo Think of it like reddit gold, but even more meaningless
lol
Your pin has paid for 0.00 server time.
Honestly - don't care that much about it.
Guys, that space has a purpose. Just like @KendallFrey wouldn't pin the last message he just said, because it's irrelevant.
"This is a really good joke, and it deserves its 15 minutes of fame"
Adds star feed to try and get interesting info into home room. Gets spammed by useless posts.
18:12
I think that if @SecondRikudo feels strongly about unpinning a humoristic post he should be able to unpin it.
@KendallFrey Pin and unpin it.
And if @rlemon feels like he should be able to pin a joke he should be able to do it.
Gets it a star.
and if the two disagree they should work it out between themselves.
2
^ most logical
18:13
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's what happened last time, and the conclusion we came was to talk it out here.
There is no reason to get a room-wide consensus on that sort of disagreement - I vote that the room owners involved can work it out.
You're not helping.
and its what pretty much happened
@SecondRikudo Maybe it deserves more than a star
@KendallFrey If that's the case, then it will get more stars.
18:13
@SecondRikudo I'm voicing an opinion - that opinion is that room owners should work it out between themselves when they disagree every time.
Pin is not some upgraded form of a star.
I'm not saying it was wrong to bring it up here - I'm saying that what you did makes the most sense in the future too.
@SecondRikudo one star, 5 stars, it all ends up in the same place
@KendallFrey No, more stars are taken into factoring the position of the message in the log.
@SecondRikudo Obviously, @rlemon and @copy disagree with that.
18:14
An older message with 10 stars will appear before a newer one with one.
@SecondRikudo I know that
I just don't think that this disagreement warrants a decision here other than "work it out when a problem arises'
But I rarely read the sidebar anyway
if we can't pin jokes @Florian will be sad every friday from here to eternity
since its a pretty rare issue anyway @BenjaminGruenbaum I agree
18:15
and when I do, it's usually only the top 3 messages
the issue sparked the question whether we should ban all jokes. is the consensus here "no, but if @SecondRikudo and @rlemon wanna piss it out they can"
??
yes lol
ok. then if that is all wrapped up @KendallFrey next issue
@rlemon that's not what I said - I said "no, but if someone doesn't like a joke being pinned they can just talk to whoever pinned it and unpin it and work it out"
That's pretty close though.
18:16
@BenjaminGruenbaum i'm paraphrasing :P
Fine then.
Next issue :)
alright, no conclusion other than "don't fight like 5-year-olds"
4
next up:
How is the general room atmosphere? Any minor concerns can be discussed.
3
7/10
after lurking in the lounge for a while... our room is 15/10
haha
18:18
@rlemon The lounge isn't really a fair comparison :P
yeah atmosphere seems pretty great lately
except on weekends like always
@BenjaminGruenbaum How so?
then its meh
18:19
@SecondRikudo donnu, I'm super busy lately but when I come 4 out of 10 times the discussion is not interesting :D
I still see people jumping on noobs. but that I think will never change, kinda the "SO effect"
yeah
Do we need to make interesting conversation?
also some people can get a little annoying... "css classes"
Also, I wanted to put the bot on Azure which'd mean it'd never crash and @rlemon didn't seem interested so that kind of annoyed me - for like 2 seconds at which point I let it go.
18:20
but meh
The monthly challenge thing didn't do that very well
@BenjaminGruenbaum ah thats a great idea actually
@rlemon I don't think it's too much to ask, at least from the ROs present, to be nice to noobs or just not talk at all.
Ive always thought it should be on a VM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I merely mentioned it's not my project. Zirak and Kittens would have to be okay with it as well.
18:20
As for CSS questions, we can always redirect people to here
@Loktar yeah, got too much friction last time so I don't really care enough to do it.

HTML / CSS / WebDesign

This room is now defunct. RIP.
@SecondRikudo oh no
they are the other two bit credential holders
A particular person kept sayin
"css classes"
I just didnt want to call them out directly
18:21
lol
just an example of users getting a bit annoying at times over the month
@rlemon yeah - like I said. Lost interest so not gonna happen on my VMs. If I'm going to spend money every month on making it stable I don't intend to have to put up with that sort of friction.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Different topic though?
So, just letting it go.
@Loktar I will. @NickDugger cut out your css classes crap :P
18:21
lol
@SecondRikudo no - was just mentioning stuff about room atmosphere.
Not a big issue, you guys asked :P
@BenjaminGruenbaum okay. there was no friction only me not wanting to make a decision on their behalf. if that bothered you I'm sorry?
but moving on I suppose.
So yeah other than the usual "be nice" there's not much I think we can add here.
Well, if you want an outsider opinion on room atmosphere
18:23
certainly
@davidism Sure
Honestly I don't really care that much about outsider opinions about the room atmosphere.
I'd rather someone like Sebastian be happy in the room than 100 people who're not smart or good with JS.
@BenjaminGruenbaum would be cool if he hung out more, was cool to see him in it to begin with
18:24
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's... kinda harsh though.
Frankly, I'd prefer it if people who don't bring interesting discussion to the room would just leave :)
I mostly see the flags that come up, and while I know you guys have a more "accomodating" policy than Python, it never seems like a "discussion" I want to be reading.
@SecondRikudo I care about @davidism in particular since I know him, I was making a point.
well that is somewhat elitist. I like when new people come into the room and are excited to learn. I don't need them to know much about JS, just be willing to take the time to learn it.
JS is definitely not one of the more professional rooms
18:24
@rlemon right, and I don't care if they learn or not.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Again, pretty harsh.
I am 100% disinterested if newbies learn in the room or not.
Remember that some of us, I included, only learned JS relatively recently.
If all those people left and a single Paul Irish came, I'd be thrilled.
that is fine. just don't interact with them then. no harm no foul.
18:25
Noobs have the potential to make for interesting conversation.
This is a chat room, not a classroom
Lets be honest people like Paul Irish are probably a bit too busy to be spending time in a random chat.
If I can have an interesting conversation with someone who uses document.write, I want to have that conversation
I've started to kick vampires if the discussion takes more than a page of chat.
can always talk with him on IRC as well
18:26
so? no one is obligated to teach them. I am not pretending to defend vamps. but if someone comes and wants to learn and makes a few mistakes we can be quick to jump on them.
We also have a specific word we can post to alert people that "hey, maybe you should stop interacting with that person"
I enjoy helping new people honestly
@Loktar Same. Depends on their attitude.
@davidism that's an interesting idea.
yeah definitely
18:27
I enjoy helping people who like to be helped
BTW, since most people don't know me, I'm one of the ROs for Python.
yeah people who dont just "want the codes"
vamps just suck (pun intended)
Sorry if the discussion isn't always interesting, I see the JS room as a place to talk about JS.. and also just talk with friends I've made over the years :/
@davidism and one of the 4 ROs of Python room attending this meeting :D
18:28
I think we've come a long ways though, rarely political or religious convos now
I see the JS room as a place to chat with friends who also know JS
if an interesting js discussion comes up we're usually all in on it. sucks that JS isn't that interesting :P
so the discussion will naturally go to JS
@Loktar I agree.
lol
18:29
:P
@Loktar yeah, I like how we've improved on that
There's a difference between interesting and offensive, and while the discussion might be interesting, my impression is that the atmosphere is somewhat "polluted".
2
@davidism polluted in what way?
we have a few hotheads
That, we do.
18:30
As in, I wouldn't want to read the things that I see posted/flagged. It's a general impression I have of this room and a couple others.
I will admit our language isn't kid-friendly (or workplace-friendly)
sorry
@KendallFrey I'm relatively fine with that.
@davidism judging a room by its flags is a poor way to do it
@rlemon right
18:31
@SecondRikudo me too
Python manages to have interesting on topic and off topic discussions while remaining friendly. I'm not trying to say you should become us though. :)
I don't mind people saying 'fuck' or other expletives, as long as they aren't specifically meant to hurt or offend someone.
3
the average JS developer is much less "professional" than the average C# developer
the rooms reflect that
If you can't deal with stronger language on the internet, you have other problems.
Oh, it's more the intollerant language rather than the general expletives.
18:32
@davidism Yes, definitely.
Things like "Go away and search" can be much more hurtful than a general 'fuck' thrown somewhere in the sentence.
How many users does the python room have on avg compared to the JS room? I would imagine quite a bit less thus maybe making it a "closer" more friendly community
yea I also often wonder how much of a problem the passthrough traffic is
@Loktar aren't closer communities less friendly on average?
we have like 5 times the messages and 3 times the users. not saying that makes a difference, but wondering if it does.
I may be getting you guys somewhat mixed up with C++ (sorry), but it's also things like racial, religious, and other slurs/stereotypes being thrown around.
18:33
@KendallFrey eh idk, I would hope not?
but maybe lol
two's company, three's a crowd
@davidism yeah honestly I don't see that very often in the JS room
I mean it does happen, but people seem quick to correct the offenders in my experience
@davidism python as a language attracts a lot less noobs.
a lot less noobs.
Hmm, debatable :)
18:34
the hours I'm online I see most flags from Lounge and like IOS whatever room
I think we could all use a reminder to be nice, but we're doing well.
4
@SecondRikudo I agree with this
@KendallFrey u wot m8? come at me bro! I rek u
2
@Loktar I interact with people like paul in IRC channels all the time.
@KendallFrey Alright. Next topic?
18:35
@rlemon no, u promised it was nick now
@SecondRikudo there is none
ohh yes :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah IRC seems to be more "important" imo
@KendallFrey Any room owner promotion/demoitions?
people seem to make more time for the IRC channels is what I mean
18:36
We got the idea to have these meetings from you guys :) @Ffisegydd @davidism @thefourtheye
@Loktar because they're full of professionals and not people asking how to use jquery
well unless you're in ##jquery :P
hell or even ##javascript
but yeah that is the nice thing about IRC I agree
There is no inherent reason for the SO chat to not attract smart people
maybe its just me, but i feel it being a seperate web chat just makes it too much work for some
18:37
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sure there is.
@SecondRikudo what is the inherent reason?
SO chat requires 20 reputation on SO, which requires a SO account with at least one answer
Most people have that
The SO chat is noisy and often full of newbies. That's the discouraging factor
@BenjaminGruenbaum No, most people don't. Some people do.
Also that.
Room owner nominations/demotions are now open.
2
18:38
Also, there's this... freedom with IRC that SO chat doesn't have.
The general IRC channels aren't much different, like ##javascript. Once you get to the more specific ones you get higher caliber people.
Anyone not active?
aww, can't see deleted messages
JanDvorak
oh its just what I added to the message above, didnt want to pollute this subject ;P
Simon Sarris - last message 15 days ago?
Jan Dvorak - last message 35 days ago
18:40
@SecondRikudo Sarris!
I believe we mentioned Jan last time?
He hasn't been on since then
yea, we gave him one more month I believe
He really hasn't
I would wait one more month
Maybe he's on vacation
He can be RO again if he comes back and resumes participating
18:41
Star this to remove Jan Dvorak from room owners.
6
@copy Meh, it's not like we can't bring him right back if he ends up popping back up.
where the heck has Zirak been btw? (not suggesting removing him by any means just havent seen him)
Star this to keep Jan Dvorak as room owner.
@Loktar he was on a day or two ago
@Loktar I've seen him a couple times recently.
18:42
@Loktar I didn't want to mention him...
but he's not very active
He's busier than normal, that's for sure.
I know where Zirak is :D
ah ok cool so he's alright?
@BenjaminGruenbaum :P Hush hush
Zirak is still active in the room don't worry about it he's just busy
18:42
> last message 9h ago
Yeah, zirak is fine
Ok, we can remove Jan, what about Simon?
2 mins ago, by Second Rikudo
Simon Sarris - last message 15 days ago?
I think we can give him another month
did he hook up with horse head? no time for us now? nvm
Star this to remove Simon Sarris from room owners.
Star this to keep Simon Sarris as room owner.
5
18:44
@rlemon not yet
I <3 simon too much.
looks fairly conclusive for both
I've literally never met him in the room XD
Any others?
18:44
For additions, or still removals?
We mentioned thinking about jhawins this meeting (last meeting iirc)
I haven't been active enough this month to nominate anyone. I'm pleased with how the people we added are doing.
@Loktar jhawins doesn't care from what I can tell and I'd rather avoid the mess.
sounds good
+ we've been mentioning him "mext meeting" for a while now
18:47
is that it then?
Guess it is.
starting to look that way
@KendallFrey you got off easy! :P
also awesome checklist for the gist
everyone should use that
18:48
@KendallFrey please pick a host for next meeting.
@SecondRikudo will do
Well, it was nice being in a meeting with you guys ;-) Thanks for having us today.
Nice work @KendallFrey :)
Thanks for participating @thefourtheye
18:53
Post-meeting hangouts anyone?
...nope
19:26
Daw
Sorry I missed it
Sorry for my gap. Can I be readded?
19:57
morning
 
3 hours later…
22:54
@KendallFrey can you add conclusions
?
@BenjaminGruenbaum They're in the gist
@JanDvorak sure
Oh cool, might want to pin them in the JS room :)
Wait, I just realized - why did you make a new room @KendallFrey ?
Context: previous meetings held here: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/65438/js-room-meeting

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