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06:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

6:37 AM
hey fellas, have a nice week ^^
 
GoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOd Mornin' neglecterinos!
 
\o
 
6:54 AM
o/
 
\o
 
7:11 AM
o/
 
my cat of 13 years died this weekend, so I'm bummed out :(
 
had a cancerous growth on her lower jaw and it got to the point where she wasn't eating anymore. I had to make the decision to put her down
 
I'm sorry to hear that Neil.
I was going to flame the first person that breaks the o/ \o chain but this is forgiveable.
 
thanks, man. <3
 
7:20 AM
Always hard.
Happend to my wifes old cat aswell.
 
@Neil Oh I'm so sorry for your loss :-(
 
to everyone else, it's just a cat, but to me, it was a part of the family
 
And our cat is now 13 years old aswell and one cal tell that she'll be resting under the ground soon two ':D
 
@Hozuki ty, that means a lot
 
A pet is like family, or even like a child. It hurts so much losing one. I 100% understand.
 
7:21 AM
I sometimes wonder if it was easier or harder to see her slowly get worse
 
Ya I get it, it's like that with animals.
"Outsiders" don't get the connection and how an animal can be part of a family.
 
if I had just found her dead, having fallen from a balcony, it seems like that would be worse in some ways
 
Here, I'll light a canlde for your cat neil
 
our vet apparently is really uncomfortable around people who cry, so the whole time, he was just trying to distract me and talk to me about medical articles he had read :D
 
Ya, I mean it always feels like "you killed her", but that's only part true.
I'd rather have somebody put me down than suffer a slow and gruesome death by starvation or any other way.
 
7:23 AM
I could appreciate what he was doing, but I also really needed to cry it out
yeah, the vet gave me an option to force feed her antibiotics (because she wouldn't have eaten them with food or without) and even then, at least another four days of watching her not eat and waste away
I couldn't put her through that
I'm a strong believer in not keeping her alive if it only means she'd suffer
Sorry, didn't mean to drag down the chat, I'll shutup now about the cat :)
I guess I just needed someone to talk to about it
 
Damn..
I jsut learnt that my bosses sister died this weekend to </3
 
oh geez
that's got to be awful
 
Aye.
@Neil Thats fine, I guess all here are understanding :)
Except wietl0l, he's always anti anti.
 
Yup, he's very much a antiestablishmentarianist
 
Yeah, frigg wietlul
 
7:34 AM
@Neil You're a good man. It's extremely hard to make the decision for the best of the animal, especially when it hurts you so much. I really respect that decision. Also, it may not be much comfort right now, but do be kind on yourself... I'm sure you've given your cat much love and did the best you could... Try to be happy you gave her/him a good life.
 
yeah, that's what I keep telling myself, though I'd be lying if I said a part of me didn't want to be selfish and try to prolong her life as long as possible
 
That is to be human, we all think like that, but what matters is that you didn't. You thought of the cat first, and yourself second.
 
yeah, that's a good point. She was definitely loved. The only cat I've ever known to speak back everytime you talked to her
 
@Hozuki Nice words roel.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:59 AM
@Neil Sorry for your loss :(
 
thx, man
 
I do think you made the right choice though
Even though it hurts now
Its about quality of life at the end of the day
The sadness in time will pass and you'll be left with fond memories <3
 
Morning bois
 
I'm sure I will. I decided when she first got the cancer that I would make all the decisions in her best interest
 
9:03 AM
@Squirrelkiller I see you've been busy on the bot
 
Including, of course, the last one
 
Hey lee, hey cap'
@CaptainObvious I think he's on vacation
 
Tell that to his github account
 
@Neil Not allowing them to suffer is the best choice
 
9:05 AM
It's a bot
Hey guys, I just found this little gem in our codebase.
Anybody got a nerfgun that can actually hurt people?
 
what the fuck
Is that basically doing the exact same thing?
no wait
what
 
so, basically a O(n^2) nested loop
 
More or less..
It's bad code.
 
for every item, search every other item for the item with the same id..
 
I added the .AsNoTracxking to it, then thoguht like "what the hell wait no"
@Neil Which can't exist
 
9:09 AM
and there are 124k items.. wow
 
I am wondering if my collegue is writing this on porpuse to later "optimise"
 
ah yes
the fabled "fix this later"
 
@Squirrelintraining that looks like an attempt at de-duplication
 
@hollystyles It looks like my next reason to go to the insane asylum.
 
so let me get this straight, he's got a list like [2, 10, 3, 5], and he puts it in order, so O(n log n).. then he cycles through each item, in the new order by id, so [2, 3, 5, 10], checks if it doesn't exist in the empty list, and in that case adds it..
so a O(n^2) operation of [2] , [2, 3], [2, 3, 5], [2, 3, 5, 10]
so he winds up with the original ordered list..
 
9:13 AM
The real question is why is Id (the quintessential moniker for uniqueness) not unique?
 
that probably should have been the programmer's first question to ask..
 
For all Land de-duplicate into TribeLand. What is this application for?
Root landregister ?
 
@Neil yes
@hollystyles it IS unique.
 
ouch
I'd hate to see other things this person has written
 
It's just...
Copy paste from x different sources.
I mean that is just horrible.
It makes 0 sense.
Like litereally.
@Neil oh believe me, there's more :D
And it gets worse
 
9:20 AM
somehow I believe you
this is what you get when you get someone smart enough to copy and paste code and make it work, but not smart enough to know what it does..
 
Yes...
100% true
 
Post worse
 
@CaptainObvious What are you willing to pay?
 
@Wietlol When you said this, I should have asked why is an instance of ImplementationClass both an ImplementationClass and an ISampleInterface?
 
9:24 AM
@CaptainObvious thats negative oô
 
Ye, pay me to look at worse code
 
nahforget it
Where is my sunpat?!
:D
 
Not despatched yet
On the chair next to me, we're gonna speak to the people today I think about it
 
you still need to tell me the cost and your paypalz
And you need my address
 
Oh yeah
 
9:27 AM
:'D
 
I wasn't gonna send you the cost and stuff until it's sorted
Thanks
 
Sounds like a hidden "abo falle" :b
 
@Wietlol I've been thinking more about the statement ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass();, is it correct to say that the reason you can assign an instance of type Implementation class to a variable of type ISampleInterface is because of assignment compatibility?
Can someone who understands OOP answer this?
> @Wietlol When you said this, I should have asked why is an instance of ImplementationClass both an ImplementationClass and an ISampleInterface?
"this" refers to:
> An instance of ImplementationClass is both an ImplementationClass and an ISampleInterface
 
I have 5 days left with my current job
i am the nervous
 
Referring to the actual interface is helpful when you don't have a specific implementation that could be there. For example if you had a method which took an ISampleInterface as a parameter, you have no way of knowing* what implementation it is. But at the same time, you don't care, because that's what interfaces are for
@CaptainSquirrel but why are you leaving
Do you have a new job?
 
9:36 AM
Got a new job in cardiff
 
ew wtf
 
The plan is to work remotely for the time being
So I start at my new place next monday
 
But eventually you'd have to move to cardiff
 
Just waiting on equipment, SPEAKING OF
 
That's terrible!
 
9:37 AM
I've got to ring my new boss about that cuz I've still not received anything
Well yeah
The Missus is in Cardiff sooooooooooooooooo
 
Ew a welsh missus
 
@CaptainObvious Thanks, this is the code containing the interface:
interface ISampleInterface
{
    void SampleMethod();
}

class ImplementationClass : ISampleInterface
{
    // Explicit interface member implementation:
    void ISampleInterface.SampleMethod()
    {
        // Method implementation.
    }

    static void Main()
    {
        // Declare an interface instance.
        ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass();

        // Call the member.
        obj.SampleMethod();
    }
}
 
Wait wtf
wtaf is that
 
The interface and the implementing class
 
But its baaaaad
 
9:39 AM
Why?
 
the main method
 
Right. It's from the official Microsoft documentation. That's how they wrote it.
 
swhat is your question
 
Also in that instance theres absolutely no point in typing obj as an ISampleInterface
Because it will always be an ImplementationClass
 
@CaptainObvious Let's break it down. new ImplementationClass() creates an instance of ImplementationClass, right?
Which is why:
> Because it will always be an ImplementationClass
 
9:44 AM
Yes
 
and then
 
But the point with interfaces is you refer to the Interface when you don't know what specific type it will be
 
But Wietlol said that new ImplementationClass() creates an instance of ImplementationClass that is also an ISampleInterface. I don't get how an instance of a specific type is also another type?
 
you declared it that way..
 
Because ImplementationClass is derived from ISampleInterface
 
9:46 AM
It's both types
 
It's like with cheese. You can have just cheese, You can have Cheddar and Edam. Edam is Edam, but it's also cheese, because Edam is a type of cheese.
 
horrible analogy
 
@CaptainObvious Inheritance? So the child instance is the parent too?
 
Dog isa Animal.
 
9:48 AM
Because the child can't remove anything from the parent, so anything that the parent has, the child must also have too
 
\o
 
So you can access it as if it's an ISampleInterface, and you can call SampleMethod, because all implementations of it will have a method called SampleMethod. Sure, they'll have other things too, but they are compatible
 
What I initially thought is that new ImplementationClass(); creates an instance of ImplementationClass. Then ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass(); implicitly converts the right side of the = operator to the left side because of assignment compatibility since ImplementationClass is more derived than ISampleInterface. Is this wrong?
 
It's not wrong, it's just odd in that context.
There's no benefit to referring to as type within that type as it's parent type, because it's always going to be that specific one that you're working with
 
@CaptainObvious I get that. The child inherits members from the parent, like a child inherits eye color, hair color etc. But the child is not the same as the parent. That's why saying that an instance of ImplementationClass is both an Implementation Class and ISampleInterface confuses me.
 
9:52 AM
It's not the same, but it's compatible
Lets say this
 
@CaptainObvious Thank you.
 
For example if we dfid var dog = new Mammal(), then we have an instance of Mammal
So dog is a mammal, yeah?
 
var. sick.
 
But Mammal implements the IAnimal interface, so it's also fair to say that dog is an animal
 
mr5
9:54 AM
what's up geybois
 
think generic vs specific....any specific thing can be used when you say "i need something to do this generic job"
 
If we then also add var chicken = new Bird(), then we also have a chicken, which is also an animal
 
"it is both" because you literally define it that way..
 
So if IAnimal had a method called Kill, you could kill any animal
But Bird also has a method called Fly(), so birds can also fly, but not all animals can flay
 
@CaptainObvious Hold on please. I don't get this. Maybe I don't know what an interface does to an implementing class.
 
9:57 AM
@CaptainObvious You mean Murder().
Becasue Kill would imply that it can kell others
 
I don't get why "it's also fair to say that dog is an animal"
 
says that it will have all the functions the interface lists
 
So if you refer to the IAnimal, you refer to traits that all animals have
 
listswait. what. you dont understand generic term animal?
 
@BlackPanther Really? I thought that was the most obvious analogy
 
9:58 AM
Actually .Die() would be the best one.
 
@Squirrelintraining whatever, you know what I mean
 
Every dog is an animal.
but not every animal is a dog.

think about that.
@CaptainObvious NO MY GERMAN SAIS No
 
@CaptainObvious Let me rephrase: Why does Mammal implementing the IAnimal interface make dog an animal?
 
why is obvious statement obvious
 
Everty sentence has letters
but lettuce doesn't grow in bunches.
 
10:01 AM
Here's another way of looking at it. A Mammal is just an Animal with some legs strapped on (and other bits). It's just a fancy Animal. Animal+
It's still an Animal though if you want to refer to it as one.
 
I literally can't think of any easier way to explain this
 
why does implementing an interface {..}
 
@CaptainObvious What does implementing in the context "But Mammal implements the IAnimal interface" mean?
 
@Squirrelintraining preach it
pastor squirrel
 
10:04 AM
Eugh. I give up
 
@Squirrelintraining Yes this is obvious
 
Someone take over, I'm gonna go jump in front of a bus make a brew
 
implementing means you support/define all the functions listed in an interface.
 
Is the declaration class ImplementationClass : ISampleInterface saying that ImplementationClass is an ISampleInterface?
 
not IS..has. can be treated as.
 
10:08 AM
@ABuckau Thanks, that's what I was thinking
 
is would imply theyre exaxtly the same..no. it takes it as the starting point, and adds to.
 
@ABuckau When you put it like that, I can see why ImplementationClass is both an ImplementationClass and ISampleInterface?
 
IGoFast . both a car and a rocket can implement that interface. neither "is" a GoFast ..is isnt the best word for the relationship. but both vehicles support the required functions and can be treated thusly.
 
@CaptainObvious Now I understand this. Any class you add on to IAnimal interface will be an IAnimal because IAnimal is a big base which you can add on as many classes as you like to that same base. @ABuckau I think this explains your IGoFast example, thanks.
 
mm..thats dangerously close to sounding like a base class (ie. parent), not an interface..but yes, basically.
 
10:16 AM
@ABuckau Thanks. I was told that an interface is basically an abstract class.
 
sure. it gets complicated depending on how exactly you need to model dofferent relationships. C++ for example leta you derive from multiple base classes..not in c#. interfaces somewhat help you model the relationship possibilities that woukd gove you.
Firefox update/this site is garbage after a recent update..forgice the typos.
 
@ABuckau as for the reason you can assign an instance of type ImplementationClass to a variable of type ISampleInterface as shown in the statement ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass(); I just want to confirm that the following is still correct:
> What I initially thought is that new ImplementationClass(); creates an instance of ImplementationClass. Then ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass(); implicitly converts the right side of the = operator to the left side because of assignment compatibility since ImplementationClass is more derived than ISampleInterface.
@ABuckau No worries mate
 
one moment.
to backtrack for a moment..it is basically the same as what I'm about to go over:
do you understand when you use inheritance, ie. Dog : Animal ...that when something expects an 'animal', you can give it a 'dog' and there isn't a problem
 
@BlackPanther It's not converting anything, it's the same instance
you're just saying "I'll forever be calling your methods like you were a ISampleInterface instance.. I don't care about what implementation it is"
and that's 99% the correct thing to do
 
mr5
@Wietlol r u hir?
 
10:27 AM
@BlackPanther it was a yes or no question :p
 
@ABuckau Yes, because of assignment compatibility. = implicitly converts dog to animal, i.e. the derived type is converted to the base type
 
@BlackPanther so, it's the same thing.
 
hey Neil
 
Hey guys, a general question about multi threading - If I have a thread pool that is performing tasks, let's say a path finding algorithm that receives start and end points, and after it finishes it inserts the path points into a queue set which is used by both the thread pool and the main thread (main thread reads and writes aswell). should I synchronize the usage of the queue reference?
can this lead to issues?
 
converted might be the wrong word...you "treat it as" ..similar to converting, but technically no conversion happens. I believe *
 
10:30 AM
@ABuckau I understand now that nothing is converted. Just a misconception. @Neil thanks
 
@BlackPanther so..all good?
if you're going to ask "at what point will this be useful" all I can say is..you'll know when it's time lol
 
@Hans1984 hey, man, what's up?
 
sup
 
@BenBeri nope. send it.
 
2020 do I need to say more
;)
 
10:33 AM
ikr? :)
 
@ABuckau If you had Dog : Animal where both Dog and Animal are classes, and you do Animal obj = new Dog();, is there still no conversion? Or does no conversion only apply if Animal is an interface?
 
@BenBeri just kidding..but if you have to ask that question, I expect an avalanche of "how do I {multi thread}" questions to follow soon after.
 
@ABuckau For an implementing class and interface, yes. I want to know if the same applies for a derived class and base class (see my previous message)?
 
@BlackPanther i believe not. Technically the object type is created as "new Dog", you're just treating it as the more generic (ie. base class) type.
 
ideally, you should be dealing with the most generic class/interface that you can and you should never need to cast it again
 
10:36 AM
ie. limiting yourself by only treating it as an animal...a limited subset of what the Dog class would offer (because it has everything animal has, plus more). but this does have use cases..especially if you override functions in the child class.
 
if you ever find yourself having to cast it, the first thought that should run in your head is "what did I mess up on to have to do this?"
in other words, don't cast to call "Bark()". Use an Animal.MakeNoise() instead
 
uh
 
you disagree? @ABuckau :)
 
mm..I guess not. depends on the use case..but if you're extracting out the behavior to an Interface..I guess 99.99% of the time you'll want the generic action.
 
the only time you need to perhaps deal with a Dog instance is if something is involved during the construction phase that can't be 100% done in the constructor
like say, attaching a connection instance to a database (which isn't part of the generic class)
though once the instance is established, you'd return it as the generic interface
 
10:42 AM
shit..i'm trying to remember..iirc if you have f.e. IAnimal::MakeNoise() and Dog::MakeNoise() defines that...if you cast to the interface..it won't call the Dog::MakeNoise () ?
that can't be right..I must be thinking of something else.
but I want to say that is right :/ it's been too long..
 
@Neil Looking at the ISampleInterface, the method SampleMethod is not implemented there. So how can you call ISampleInterface.SampleMethod() when an implementation of SampleMethod does not exist in ISampleInterface.
 
IAnimal::MakeNoise() is abstract though, why wouldn't it call Dog::MakeNoise()?
@BlackPanther you can't. You have to evaluate if SampleMethod can belong to ISampleInterface, and if it is something that applies to all implementations, add it
otherwise, figure out if it is something which can be called only where it is being created, and call it there
if neither apply, something is probably wrong, from a conceptual point of view
 
Since ISampleInterface was not instantiated, I'm thinking that calling ISampleInterface.SampleMethod() actually calls SampleMethod in the instance of ImplementationClass that you are treating as an ISampleInterface. Is this correct?
 
that's what he was saying I got wrong. yes.
 
yes, it calls the specific implementation of said instance
there's sort of an inner scope and outer scope for this sort of thing. The inner scope cares about the implementation, and the outer scope (should be most of your program) only cares that it extends the interface
 
10:49 AM
can interfaces actually have definitions now?
like to not just be abstract. ?
 
inner scope doesn't use it, but makes it as needed, and the outer scope uses it, but doesn't make it, does that make sense?
they can in java, not sure in C#
 
I haven't kept up since .net 3, 3.5 ish
 
mr5
@ABuckau somehow
 
@mr5 which part
 
mr5
You can define a "body" like this now: IsSomething => Method()
 
10:52 AM
can, or must
 
mr5
cuz it's up to you?
ofc, it's can
 
do you have to use =>, or can it be the normal syntax
 
mr5
you can do the old syntax
it's just shorthand for single line body anyway.
 
how long has that been supported?
 
mr5
a year I think
 
10:54 AM
giving the interface methods a body* . ?
 
mr5
can't remember which version cuz we're always up to date.
yeah. I consider that a body.
I'm still wondering why most devs here can't use the new C#
 
so now if you do IFace obj = new Type; will it call the the base or inherited version?
 
@Neil this MSDN article is why I was convinced that conversion was happening in the statement ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass();?
 
mr5
or not yet familiar with it.
@ABuckau unfortunately, you can only use those "predefined" properties/methods internally. You can't use it outside of the class.
 
In C++, you could define "converters" to and from any class, and those could be quite confusing
it also wasn't clear which rule was being applied when
 
10:56 AM
@mr5 thanks for answer.
 
@Hans1984 AMEn, I SAY AMEN!
 
@Neil the rule of 3..I mean 30..soon to be 300 : p
 
@ABuckau Now I see why they would do ISampleInterface obj = new ImplementationClass(); instead of just ImplementationClass obj = new ImplementationClass();?
 
@Black oh ya?
 
10:58 AM
AMEN
;)
 
There had to fix that linq
 
good rules of thumb: avoid inheritance whenever possible (prefer encapsulation instead), if you do use inheritance, deal with interface in your program where it is used, simplicity is always the most important thing
 
Inheritance masterrace!
Don't you ever say that again!
 
@ABuckau Yeah, just as you said. You might not want to use all members in the derived class, just those in the base class. But I don't think you can do this when the base type is an interface, right? Since you call the methods of the instantiated type, not the interface that the instantiated type is treated as?
@Neil Thanks. Using inheritance involves many moving parts, and if you don't understand any of them, it all comes crashing down.
@Neil from the MSDN article I linked, is there any conversion in the following statements?
/ Assignment compatibility.
string str = "test";
// An object of a more derived type is assigned to an object of a less derived type.
object obj = str;

// Covariance.
IEnumerable<string> strings = new List<string>();
// An object that is instantiated with a more derived type argument
// is assigned to an object instantiated with a less derived type argument.
// Assignment compatibility is preserved.
IEnumerable<object> objects = strings;

// Contravariance.
// Assume that the following method is in the class:
Particularly this statement:
// An object of a more derived type is assigned to an object of a less derived type.
object obj = str;
 
11:36 AM
yesterday I bought myself two games for my birthday Star Wars Squadrons and Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order
that should last for a while ;)
 
@Hozuki eyyy did ya hear LP released a bunch of tracks Friday?
@Hans1984 o damn I haven't played FO in about a year, but I remember it being kickass
 
both games are great i think
 
I got no idea about the first one
 
my firts game I bought for pc was x-wing in 1996
so there was a lot of nostalgia going
 
@Hans1984 money spent badly
 
11:37 AM
im glad to see that squadrons feels just like x-wing
@Squirrelintraining no, spent well
 
the first thing I bought on steam back in 2013 was some Star Wars pack from right around when Lucasarts dissolved
 
reeeeeeeeeeee
 
I couldnt stop playing squadrons
 
really I just wanted Jedi Academy
 
11:38 AM
also sometimes you have to gift yourself for your birthday since only you know what you need
:P
 
ok but srsly…*Could Have Been* by Linkin Park is better than anything I've heard in awhile; I'm wondering when this sound is going to become retro-cool
 
@Hans1984 truth
When is your birhtday?
Retrro or retarded amii?
 
yesterday
 
it just occurred to me that my brother turns 20 in 2 months....
 
11:40 AM
well in that case congratz fat bastard!
 
I heard about that humble bundle list already but i dont want any of those games
@Squirrelintraining ;)
 
I don't know wahts in becuz compoany regulations prevent HumleBundle :D
 
Wat
how does that work
 
Ohhh lol.
 
11:43 AM
I could get around that of course but I won't bother.
 
Barracuda blocks my own damn website
yeah because wordpress is SOOOOO harmful
 
They don't like you hentai porn
 
lel
 
Damn it jack
 
11:52 AM
who dropped the wat?
 
me
10 mins ago, by Captain Obvious
Wat
 
10 mins
w0w
 
12:30 PM
@Freerey LP?
 
@Hozuki what the squirrel said
 
Who? Never heard of 'em
 
Oct 2 at 12:54, by Hozuki
user image
boi
 
This is annoying
Literally just created it, on what planed is Generated used but the others aren't
 
12:38 PM
@Freerey I got myself.
 
oh yeah so a 2012 MacBook pro arrived in the mail Friday and out of the 110 games in my Steam library, it can play a grand total of...……………………sixteen
but System Shock 2 is one of them, so I'm satisfied
 
Well, buying a Mac to play games is like buying a fridge to heat up your food.
 
yeah I didn't even get it for games; got it for writing
I have two PCs that can do gaming way better, anyway
 
Two PCs, sheesh.
 
well actually I have 4, but one of those other 2 is a Surface and the other is a Dell Dimension from 2001
 
1:27 PM
Ryan Donovan on October 12, 2020
The goal of building a machine learning model is to solve a problem, and a machine learning model can only do so when it is in production and actively in use by consumers. As such, model deployment is as important as model building.
 
@Freerey I have one PC that does everything and 1 that hasn't been turned on for years :P
I tossed everything else.
 
@Squirrelintraining Good news, I might get your peanut butter out tonight
 
@Feeds Quiet you!
 
If you send £21 then you're good, looks like you're getting free postage
 
1:51 PM
@CaptainObvious uhhh
Sounds nice
 
mr5
@Freerey how is your miner?
BTC&ETH gaining constantly these past weeks.
I wish I have my own ledger.
 
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