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2:18 AM
Oh I see I have missed another whole git debate
anyway, git is solid, its UI/UX is absolute trash
 
2:34 AM
another highly useful canonical: stackoverflow.com/questions/5653533
 
@halt9k Anyway, these problems definitely are caused by misuse of git, because I haven't experienced the issues you have for all kinds of files tracked by git - especially given that git hashes all objects and stored, so if you passed your original file into git hash-object --stdin and then the ones you "stored" in the git repo does not match, it clearly shows the way you (or your system/software) added the blobs into the commit being faulty
@halt9k seems like what you ultimately want git for is to use it as an object store, less so about version control, read up on git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Internals-Git-Objects and you might want to build your own git commit creation tools using libgit2 via your favorite language bindings
 
 
2 hours later…
5:01 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/10712002 IMO, the question I added as a see-also is much better as a canonical most of the time; most people don't actually want to create that list. I'd like to see some of the duplicate closures redirected to the see-also where appropriate.
stackoverflow.com/questions/521674 would be better for questions that really do have a good reason to make a pre-sized list, but it's poorly asked
 
5:59 AM
The relevant canonicals are stackoverflow.com/questions/423379/… and stackoverflow.com/questions/370357/…, depending on exactly what OP asked. Sometimes both. I think.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:13 AM
hey guys! what are ya all doing?
this is my first time doing stack over flow chat XD
 
7:24 AM
Hello and welcome :)
 
7:35 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/5166887 what on earth is this nonsense and how has it gotten 26k views
 
7:47 AM
easily misinterpreted out of context error in title? check. I think it's totally normal this got so many views then
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/20296188 If this is supposed to be a canonical for "what does IndexError mean and how do I fix it?", then it's awful
stackoverflow.com/… there's probably a lot of garbage in here, frankly.
stackoverflow.com/questions/1098643 I guess this is our actual beginner-level canonical.
stackoverflow.com/questions/51919448 Here's a canonical for "for i in x: makes i be an element from x, not a numeric index".
 
8:45 AM
I know we have stackoverflow.com/questions/20449427/…, but is there a canonical specifically for converting an existing string to integer?
 
9:03 AM
cbg
 
9:25 AM
@KarlKnechtel Not that I know of. See my past-few-days message asking for a canonical to be answered by "use ast.literal_eval". Perhaps creating one might be useful?
 
 
2 hours later…
10:55 AM
I've just found out that reserving container space in Kubernetes is referred to as a "taint"; I don't like the idea that nodes get tainted with my service :'( It feels kinda like git blame in that it's automatically accusatory
 
> 2. A tinge, trace or touch.
Go with that ;)
I always thought of blame as tongue-in-cheek, and anyway the tool is called git
 
This is true. Generally I do use git blame to say "not my problem, go hassle Person X" anyway :P
 
Kubernetes and git are roughly in the same user friendliness neighbourhood for me. Just memorise what you need and then get out as fast as you can...
 
Thankfully we have engineering support dedicated to it so I don't have to try make sense of the millions of files. They changed 42 files in a PR and flagged me to review. LOL nope, I haven't got the first idea of what's going on here
And we all know how good I am at reviewing PRs
 
Meh, we made an entire software lecture/seminar with a hidden "learn to admit your mistakes" agenda, so you're scoring pretty high in my book. :P
 
11:17 AM
is it normal if list are doing something like this: [[ 0.2821749 -0.24292775 0.15985816 ... 0.12921185 -0.02883758]] where there seems to be some non-printed result/or at least looking like it's getting "summarized" for lack of a better term. (using numpy only here)
 
It's normal for numpy arrays, not normal for lists
 
I see, so those were numpy array :o Thanks for the heads up
also, learned that doing print ("string") works? weird
 
11:30 AM
@MisterMiyagi There's a big thing going around with imposter syndrome because we have such a huge team on all different levels. The one thing I've much ok with is saying "I foobarred this". We're getting there... Has it made any noticeable difference for your team after the training?
Probably the most infuriating thing I encounter is when Engineering won't accept that something isn't working. Trying to hand-wave your way around something that's blatantly either designed badly or just not working is a great way to invite roganjosh pain in your life - I will never go away, as much as you might like to think you can brush it under the rug. Thankfully, it's a lot better these days
 
 
1 hour later…
12:57 PM
damn, how you even do this properly?
more tasks touched - more it looks for me like it's never optimal design except this very moment, like if programs are living organisms which can be perfect for current requirements, but for next task they already never optimal
in other words, space of requirements to software creates space of optimal solutions (~simulated annealing vibes), and if work is done properly, software belongs to this space,
but next new task changes this space so program feels done wrong, not in optimal solution zone
 
How do I do what properly sorry?
 
@roganjosh proper Engineering of software
 
You admit the shortcomings and/or mistakes in the thing you've built and work with others to fix them. Not bury your head in the sand and tell people it's working as intended
There really isn't a whole lot more to it. Most software is broken somewhere, you should embrace feedback. Most of the time, internal feedback isn't yelling at you, it comes with an implicit offer to help in some way even if it's just their opinion on how they expected something to work
 
The main thing to realise is that it's almost impossible to have perfect software, there will be bugs, there will be things to improve. It's just about being willing to patch things up, and improve as you go
Or if you can't spare the resources to do so, at least admitting that this can happen and its an issue is enough
 
seems quite often that "not working" situation arises when originally there was one task, in the middle it was changed to another,
for the first task all working as intended, but for the second indeed "it's working as intended"is applied
may be just my experience though dealing with manager who doesn't know too well what he wants from the start
 
1:03 PM
@halt9k have good processes, an open culture and assertive team members
1. Yam happens, try to prevent it with process (e.g. reviews, decent and mandatory)
2. Yam still happens, make this a common premise, and then discussing and fixing mistakes in the open is fast
 
Provided you can take feedback and say "oh yeah, I messed up there", open a new git issue and actually work to address it, the system should be self-righting even if it gets off to a terrible start. Andras' points are key - "have good processes, an open culture and assertive team members"
 
The real, deep problems happen when people enter the blame game and/or ignore found issues for fear of repercussions
 
The recipe for disaster is much easier than the recipe for success - refuse to acknowledge mistakes/shortcomings. You'll fail 100% of the time
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні yam = yet another mistake?
 
It's from salad
 
1:11 PM
@roganjosh oh... but guessed close to correct
 
Sure. You don't need to keep pinging people on every message btw. It's easy enough for us to follow who you're responding to atm without the ping
 
ouch, sorry, that wasn't even intentional, I did this before to make chat lines easier to follow
 
No harm done :)
 
@halt9k that's fine, but when you're replying to the last message it's usually not necessary (that being said, I also sometimes do that when I feel it would be unambiguous otherwise)
 
A difficulty I've experienced:

Me: there's a bug in the program when you try to frobnicate a blue grommet that has ten spokes.
Them: it doesn't matter. It's not possible to create a blue grommet with ten spokes in the first place.
Me: It is possible. This morning I created one using only tools available to our end users.
Them: Well, it still doesn't matter. I've been here for twenty years and none of our users have ever tried to create a blue grommet with ten spokes.
 
1:20 PM
wow, pair of messages above can be transferred on subject that is not about programming at all... and they immediately appear not so simple...
what if you saw mistake, tried to fix it, everyone else was saying that's lame, so you was not assertive enough, and now whole company will get unrecoverable failure because of it...
 
The bottom line is that everyone makes mistakes. The question is how people handle mistakes once they're done.
 
Me: If it's completely nonsensical to create a blue grommet with ten spokes, can we modify the tools so it's impossible to create one?
Them: that's a waste of time. Just leave everything the way it is.
 
@Kevin none that lived to tell the tale
 
@Kevin lol, this is so incredibly familiar! your stories are great! and that one about mountain was great too!
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні it's much closer to question how people handle mistakes made by others, who they even warned
 
"who they even warned" is one of the things you should forget about if you want an open culture
Warn them in advance, but once it's done there's no point dwelling on "I told you so"s
if this becomes a pattern you can talk to their boss :P
But yes, handling mistakes by others is not independent of handling mistakes of your own.
 
1:34 PM
you can't even blame anyone for anything - human is result of experience he cannot choose from the first place
whole this concept is wrecked unless you simplify to even more wrecked judgement systems like religion
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні mostly agree, but there is some utility in "I told you so". Certain things I do are pretty regimented out of personal choice rather than enforced by anything concrete. Sometimes it's helpful to point back and say "now do you realise why I did it this way? You should probably stick to my approach to Y too" without being an arse about it
No different to people asking constantly on the main site "I need variable variable names" -> "No you don't, you need a dictionary". Kaboom
 
@roganjosh yeah, that's not very assertive
anyway, the devil's in the details
 
I think you're right - it's a straw man argument but it does actually work
 
2:18 PM
uhm, so I want to ask a really weird question, but not sure how to formulate it/which term would be fitting. Basically I want to pass a file object (eg: if one do with open("file", "r") as f: I mean f as file object?) inside a list but without having the actual file content inside said list. Is it possible?
 
[f]
list(thing) iterates thing, [thing] or l = []; l.append(thing) creates a list with the thing inside.
 
:o and so that mean it only keep the file object/iterator without file content? nice
then to use it again or iterate over it normally, I can just do list_object[0]?
 
yes, just like retrieving any other object from a list
 
You could do that, or you could lazily iterate through it and pull lines individually
 
@roganjosh that comes after f = list_object[0] is retrieved
 
2:22 PM
think I got it now, Thanks to you two
 
does that still work if you're outside the with context manager? Since I would then expect the file to have been closed already
 
that doesn't, but I guess it can work if you don't depend on the with context manager and just handle closing/opening file with open() and close().
 
@roganjosh Our courses are made for our (university) students, there's only a few of our actual teammates that join voluntarily. From that A/B testing, I have to say the people taking part in such training are easier to teamwork with. Might be a bit biased though – people who are more aware that teamwork needs work are more likely to join.
 
2:38 PM
It's a shame there isn't a clear signal. Oh well, I'm happy enough to run on the assumption that this kind of thing does help because there's no major red flag
 
My personal impression is that even for the folks that already start from a good spot, teaching them "it's okay to make mistakes" makes a difference. Most people here are trained to aim for success, handling mistakes just doesn't come naturally. Having low-stakes tasks where the lecturers also openly make mistakes and talk about that helps a lot to lower inhibitions.
 
At worst, I don't think it detracts from stuff or alienates people (unless the message is "fail more for a good anecdote on a Friday")
 
2:58 PM
cabbage
 
 
1 hour later…
4:03 PM
Hello, I want to know what I should type if I want to delete column B in the first and second data sets generated by this: https://dpaste.com/95BP5P3CK

I know that you need to type df = df.drop('B', 1) for the third dataset, but I cannot seem to figure out how to delete it in the first and second datasets.
 
4:20 PM
It feels like something is missing from your question
It seems to me that you know exactly how to delete those columns but, doing so, gives you unexpected results?
 
anyone ever worked or played around with RNN in python? was curious about knowing how to handle character frequencies, as in, to know if I really need to store it or just need to store/save the weight as the model instead
 
Yes, that is correct @roganjosh I am a noob/dummy when it comes to data science with Python, so I am using a book called "Data Science for Dummies." They show this code in the book, but I am having issues with configuring the drop column feature with each table. Can you link me to a source please?
 
I can't link you to any resource when I don't understand the issue you're facing
 
@NordineLotfi If the question is, "should I tell my recurrent neural network that the letter E makes up 12.5% of the characters I'm feeding it?", that seems like something it should be able to figure out itself
 
@Kevin I mean, I know that when I train my RNN, I'm also taking it's frequencies (using something like counter) to get it's unique chars count. Problem is, say my model is well trained, I save the weight of the model and everything, but I don't feed the character frequencies to it like when it's trained, then it won't be able to do anything if I feed it say, letter E?
I'm not trying to make a markov chain/derivative output from the model btw, but close or 100% reproduction from prediction on chars.
 
4:32 PM
@roganjosh Okay, essentially, I need to know how to change this dataset collection: https://i.stack.imgur.com/2HIey.png

to this dataset collection: https://i.stack.imgur.com/B6lsN.png
@roganjosh Raw code for reference: dpaste.com/95BP5P3CK
 
@thecoolgeek Perhaps you could do df = df.drop('B', 1) before the first print call.
(this won't solve the problem entirely, but I think it will be constructive)
 
@Kevin That makes some progress, thanks!
 
@NordineLotfi Hmm. I think that question is out of my depth. I suggest, do your best, and stay hydrated.
 
Alright. it's also out of my depth too so I guess trying harder should help... Thanks for the water reminder, and the honesty!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:02 PM
I notice that I performed one of my own pet peeves -- saying "do your best" without indicating what metric to use for judging "best". Suppose you are an Olympic runner competing in multiple events. You place well in the hundred meter dash, and as you lay on the ground, you hear some passers-by say "he's tired already? He's not doing his best." The next day you are halfway through the marathon. You hear some passers-by saying "that's nowhere near his top speed. He's not doing his best."
The Olympics have ended, and you are flying home, with a gold medal in each hand. But heavier than the gold is the question: did I really do my best? How can I even tell? The medals twinkle silently in the amber light of the setting sun. If they know the answer, they're not telling.
 
I don't mind those kind of answers to be honest. It's not that I don't overthink them or follow a similar train of thought like you did here, but instead I think as "do your best" as doing my own thing...you know? I usually always do the same thing anyway whether I do my best or not, but with slight differences in workflow. But the takeaway here, is that I always try to do something that I can be satisfied with, and then try to aim higher or depending on context, lower(?)
 
Put enough work into the problem that you learn something, but don't put so much work in that you burn out on the topic. Try to figure things out on your own when it seems like an interesting challenge, but follow the guidance of experts if you can find any. Don't admit defeat at the first setback, but recognize when to cut your losses. Decide for yourself what counts as a victory. And stay hydrated.
 
@Kevin I like this one too, Thanks :)
 
6:23 PM
Re: "try to aim higher or depending on context, lower". Yes, I think aiming lower can be valuable. In short, play is good for you.
 
6:36 PM
Let me know if you have an answer to my question, everyone. Otherwise I will post it on the main site
 
7:18 PM
@thecoolgeek start by trying to analyze the problem conceptually, and describe steps to solve it
@roganjosh didn't they make git praise as a synonym?
 

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