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12:10 AM
yes, I was trying not to make a big deal of it :V
stackoverflow.com/questions/72862080 I can't find a canonical for "why do I get a syntax error at the beginning of a line?". Probably because it's always caused by a typo, but I still feel like it would be better to have that kind of reference
the thing is, the canonical would have to not itself be closable that way, so it would have to explicitly ask along the lines of "I understand what happened, but why does the error get reported this way?" and be answered with something about how parens can enclose a multi-line expression
anyway, on my previous query, I think the second one is better, but I would much rather merge than hammer
 
 
2 hours later…
2:21 AM
I was taking a peak at the docs of cmd docs.python.org/3/library/cmd.html?highlight=do_shell and I noticed there's this note "a line beginning with the character '!' is dispatched to the method do_shell() (if such a method is defined)." Does anyone know why that's included in the module? (I know it's probably a reference to #!/bin/bash, but what would the use be?)
 
2:36 AM
Maybe it has relation with IPython
 
maybe, as I look at it more I think the answer might just be "why would you have ace by default??"
 
 
6 hours later…
8:17 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/1141101 this is unclear and unfocused, it doesn't describe either the block structure or what needs to be done with each block
that said there are a lot of questions lurking around about how to read text files that consist of "blocks" in some form or other and I am struggling to find a canonical
I just used stackoverflow.com/questions/53510246, and have also found stackoverflow.com/questions/32852006, but I feel like it should be possible to do better?
 
I doubt it's worth keeping around. Close vote and eventually delete vote.
 
I do, however, want to find a canonical for the properly-asked versions of the question.
 
4k views in 13 years. Get rid of it.
 
@0x263A Your profile picture reminds me of: smbc-comics.com/comic/happy-3
 
8:29 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/41718151 here's a self-admitted typo, answered and self-accepted as such. It did point at another good candidate, though.
 
8:40 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/3914454 this is the most canonical-shaped version I could find after a couple pages of search results. it already has the bases covered in terms of standard approaches (generator with accumulator, split on delimiter, regex shenanigans, itertools.groupby)
 
8:52 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/16220930 okay, I have no idea what this question is supposed to be, or why it has 89k views
oh, that qualifies as NATO doesn't it. brb, socvr-ing
 
9:07 AM
it's a years-old question and it shows as modified 5 days ago
(Looks like one of the authors of an answer from 2018 edited to redact an email address used in an example)
 
Hi
 
ah, I see what you mean, that isn't a "new answer"
 
That's not NATO. Might still qualify for SOCVR as active, I don't know.
@Teriyaki hello
 
well, I dropped it and nobody told me off, so
 
9:32 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/743806 huge sigh. This is one of our most important Q/A pairs... and the question is horrible. It only gets used like this because of the title. The actually asked question indicates that OP already knew the answer for the title, and was actually cryptically asking a debugging question that should have been closed as a typo.
This problem is all over the place.
 
It might be worth removing the attempt and replacing it with input/output pair.
The answers I've seen so far don't directly depend on the attempt.
Hm, there are several answers speculating about the typo. :/
 
9:59 AM
I have been getting the sense that a lot of our canonicals have similar problems.
 
Yes, the older ones have significant historical cruft. :/
Might be worth selecting newer canonicals with less cruft.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:51 AM
@Hakaishin that's quite funny
 
 
1 hour later…
12:54 PM
this sqlite program produces the correct output, but I do not like having nested selects in my KIND_COUNT_QUERY. Is it possible to rewrite it so it has only one 'select'?
 
That's twice in a row that I screwed up while verifying whether my solution is actually correct
select home_planet, count(distinct category) from species group by home_planet there we go
 
I like it. Thanks :-)
 
It's totally weird seeing SQL keywords not written in all caps. How is the DB supposed to hear you that way?
 
Kevin: *posts MRE*
Me: *barely bothers to read the code and posts obviously incorrect answer* 🤪
 
Earlier I was trying to figure out if distinct could be used for something like this, but Google is flooded with beginner-level tutorials that all do select distinct whatever from whatever
I got the impression that distinct is illegal syntax unless it immediately follows select. But now I know this is not the case, since count(distinct category) works fine.
@MisterMiyagi You only need to use all caps in sql queries if the DB lives on a different computer. This one is inside my RAM, so it can hear me easily.
@Aran-Fey I approve of this approach. It's how I treat everyone else's MREs, so it's only fair.
 
1:10 PM
All jokes aside though, the fact that you constantly make these small MREs for your problems is awesome
3
 
Agreed, i love Kevin's MREs. Now, if only my company's url blocker was on the same page with it gosh yam it all to heck.
 
I really must invent kpaste one of these days
My small MREs are born out of selfishness. The nicer I make the problem, the more people pay attention to me. Mmm, tasty attention.
Here's a copy of the pastebin, for those of us with overzealous url blockers dpaste.org/JNp1R
 
1:31 PM
@MisterMiyagi shouty or get out-y?
 
It's how SQL is meant to be done, innit?
Let that DB know who's the boss.
Don't let it get any funny ideas.
 
KIND_COUNT_QUERY = """
    SELECT
        home_planet,
        COUNT(DISTINCT(category))
    FROM
        species
    GROUP BY home_planet
"""
 
Speaking of urls... The IP address of example.com is 93.184.216.34. But when I enter that into Firefox's address bar, I get 404 - Not Found. If I try https://93.184.216.34, it complains that the certificate is only valid for "example.com", not "93.184.216.34"; and then it gives me 404 - Not Found if I click "Continue anyway".
I'm pretty sure this used to be possible. Maybe there's a "yes, I know what I'm doing" flag I need to set in a config file somewhere...
Evidently I don't know what I'm doing, but don't tell the config file that.
 
1:53 PM
Is there a commonly used antonym for --dry? Cause I just accidentally miss clicked and ran the program, which def should not happen by accident. Funny enough I just thought this morning that this could happen and I should make dry the default and have an argument to let it actually run. But what would that option be called? --wet feels a bit odd
 
Various tools have both --x and --no-x options, so --no-dry-run or --no-dry could work.
 
Yeah I saw that and both doesn't really fit
oh I will use --live
 
I vote for --wet because we need more oddness in our lives
 
--make-it-so tugs shirt down
 
2:15 PM
@MisterMiyagi Hit it!
 
2:39 PM
--this-is-not-a-drill
drops mic
 
Does anyone know why matplotlib connects seemingly random points?
 
@rb3652 because your input x array is not sorted
or because your data are strings when you think they are numbers
or because you are using it wrong
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні That was a remarkably fast and correct answer.
Thanks.
 
AD is a veteran. lowers voice ominously he has seen things...
 
3:42 PM
Anyone happen to know if there's an equivalent to *args in ruby?
 
apparently *args
 
yeah... it's the same syntax :p
def blah(a, b, *c) ... end etc...
and if I remember correctly... same for keyword arguments... **whatever...
 
indeed!
thanks y'all
 
looks like there's even a def foo(*) that just takes any parameter and does nothing with them...? (I dont know ruby just meandering on google)
 
 
2 hours later…
5:25 PM
@Kevin could it be that they've misconfigured the actual server/the server has gone down. I could imagine something like nginx limping on only for it to try proxy your request to the backend server and find it... lacking
In fact, I can well imagine that since nginx would pass the certificate to your request even if the resource you're trying to get at behind it is just down
 
5:52 PM
It's also possible that a single IP (think shared hosting) hosts multiple websites and that when accessing by IP alone, if there's no default setup, the server just doesn't know which site it should actually serve without an explicit Host HTTP header included in the request
 
Incidentally, when I say example.com, that's not a placeholder. I really mean the real website example.com
 
6:03 PM
I wonder what their uptime is like. The page is like 1 KB of static content, and it's administered by ICANN, which presumably knows a thing or two about Internet technology.
 
Hi everyone! I'm glad that now I can communicate here!
 
Welcome
 
6:20 PM
Does the order in which members are initiated in __init__ matter?
 
No, unless you've done something weird that makes it matter
 
It matters as much as the order of the rest of your code
def __init__(self): #valid
    self.x = 1
    self.y = 2

def __init__(self): #valid
    self.y = 2
    self.x = 1

def __init__(self): #valid
    self.x = 1
    self.y = self.x * 2

def __init__(self): #not valid
    self.y = self.x * 2
    self.x = 1
 
def __init__(self, value1: Class1):
    self.prop1 = value1
    self.prop2 = self.prop1.get_data_from_prop1_class("key")
 
If you switched the order of those assignments, I bet it would crash.
 
That would make sense.
OKay. I guess I'm good to go on that.
Thanks!
 
6:30 PM
I would like to see a language where y = x*2; x = 1 is valid. Maybe something with a functional paradigm, where reassigning variables is impossible, and functions never have side effects, and statements run in whichever order they please
 
@Kevin something declarative perhaps, then again you probably don't say "y = x*2" there
or at least not as an assignment, I imagine
 
Browsing around en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarative_programming and some related pages, it bears resemblance to the thing I was foggily envisioning.
"A language with a clear correspondence to mathematical logic."
"Any programming language that lacks side effects"
Yes and yes. On the other hand, "programs describe their desired results without explicitly listing commands" wasn't present in my imagination. But we can include it if the public demands it.
 
6:45 PM
SQL is the only declarative language I'm familiar with and apparently CTEs made it Turing-complete
Though I have no concept of whether something is or is not defined in order because I don't really know anything about the internals of the query planner. I'm not even sure there is a meaningful concept of when something is defined when you can join across multiple keys
 
7:06 PM
There's a familiar name in the latest PSF Fellowship announcement :)
I don't think I can ping him as he hasn't been around recently (I'm on mobile right now, though). It's like 2 decades of pyparsing?
 
7:22 PM
19 years and 10 months according to linkedin (which is where I saw his announcement). That's some slog with a library baked into so much stuff. We had a couple of calls over the lockdowns too and he's a really nice guy to boot. Well deserved!
 
@roganjosh I noticed that earlier as well...
I'd say it's overdue :p
 
7:36 PM
It's not too hard. I could have one by 55 if I release a massively influential library tomorrow. What do y'all need again? No regex/parsing pls.
 
collections, but for dogs
 
A do-what-I-mean machine
 
matplotlib but better
 
A really really really good todo list
 
python but better
 
7:43 PM
OK, the python ones go into a hat and I'll hold a raffle tomorrow. I got this
 
A Halting Problem solver that works on all "reasonable" inputs
 
Can I judge what's reasonable?
 
Yes.
 
Collatz conjecture prover?
 
We'll get that for free once the Halting Problem solver is working
 
7:45 PM
I would like to be able to compile my Python scripts into machine code for the malbolge interpreter please :)
 
@roganjosh I didn't actually know (or at least had to be reminded) that this form of recognition exists. #goals.
 
go ahead with this goal
 
I don't have a clear picture of how to get involved in "organizing events", and I'm more of an educator than a "make things that get a lot of attention" type (even if I think highly of my own code quality)
(the "getting a lot of attention" part is hard)
 
@roganjosh an AI that passes the Turing Test
I won't be ordering anything anymore
 
There's already LAMDA that basically did that. Problem being that the Turing Test isn't defined well enough
Listening to the guy who claimed it is alive is quite interesting. I think the media distorted that story quite a bit
 
7:52 PM
the ill-defined-ness of the Turing test probably has a lot to do with the difficulty of the underlying task
 
Sorry, not alive, maybe conscious. I should tread carefully to not misrepresent his claims myself
 
@roganjosh will it be? This is the one who hired a lawyer?
 
I've seen an uptick in comments on social media along the lines of "the Turing Test isn't even a particularly good measurement of the quality of an AI". I suspect this means that we're getting close to passing the test, and the AI development community is getting ready to move the goalposts
 
it's a little strange to me that the PSF is operating a Blogspot blog rather than having space on python.org
(re AI and what qualifies as such, I more or less agree with Penrose)
 
@Kevin that's (I think) why they're pushing for generalised AI. I was listening to the head of Deep Mind and he's troubled that the AI he creates can't do much more than beat a human at one specific task
 
7:57 PM
*move the goalposts again en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goostman
 
I originally turned to Lex Fridman on YouTube to get background noise to sleep to, since it's really monotonic and without ads, but that is a double-edged sword. I end up just listening to the whole thing :/
 
You have to move the goalposts every couple of years, and then ask for another ten million dollars of funding
 
@Marco I don't really know what youre asking. Maybe he did? He was suspended for asking it (kinda) existential questions
 
Just asked if it's the one that allegedly hired an attorney
 
But, if you listen to him recount it properly, he was just trying to bring the debate over our boundaries of what constitutes AI to the fore. The media ran it as "this guy thinks this thing is conscious" which drowned out his initial aim
 
8:03 PM
and asked if it really passed the Turing Test
@roganjosh so do you believe it or not it passed the Turing Test?
 
I don't believe it passed the real test. I do believe it could pass an interpretation of the test. I also believe that it'll rapidly become a very serious issue for humans to detach their feelings from such exchanges
The test doesn't work. Turing was not around at a time that anything like what we have was even basically deemed possible
 
@roganjosh I suspect that has more to do with an unmet human need for psychological rubber ducks
 
I see, Roganjosh, but what do you mean with "the test doesn't work"? That is impossible to pass the Turing Test?
 
Massively. How do I know you're real? I don't care - I'm just conversing with you and I don't question it because I "know" it's technically impossible right now. If someone said "there's a bot in this room" then things would be different
@Marco no, I mean that the test is almost meaningless
 
why?
 
8:10 PM
Why is it meaningful to you?
If you can spill your secrets to an online friend, would you jerry-rig some setup for them to drive your car for you?
 
Is it insignificant for you to know that a machine can impersonate a human and do things that humans do without being noticed?
 
No, it isn't. But it's also not generalised AI. I explained this earlier
 
FWIW, there have been a lot of times in the past where I saw some report that someone failed to detect that the other end of a conversation was being held up by a bot; then I looked into it and thought "wow, the bot was really obviously a bot and the person is just bad at such detection"
 
@roganjosh ok, so the test makes sense
 
... no it doesn't. I just asked whether you'd let the chatbot drive your car and you didn't answer
Why should the ability to hold a conversation with me, and me be unaware, be any more important than literally every other task that a human can do?
 
8:16 PM
@KarlKnechtel there's also the fact that if the context doesn't make you suspect this specifically, you don't normally assume that who you're talking to (in an innocent context) is not real. And there's a lot of room on the bottom side of the bell curve.
 
indeed.
 
@roganjosh When we get to really advanced robotics technology where there are really human-like robots that have passed the Turing test, this situation could be real and likely to happen.
 
on the other hand, an actual human can normally get past even the highest levels of suspicion of being a bot, without even particularly trying (i.e., without being aware of the suspicion).
 
@Marco I don't know what level you're debating on here. I'm saying that a specialised technology, just for the purpose of communicating with me and tricking me on that basis, is not full AI
 
@roganjosh to pass the Turing Test is an really important start
 
8:20 PM
Ok
It's also not an objective test in the slightest
 
to reach in the situation I mentioned (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/54881395#54881395) will take a long time, I believe, but a lot of weird things can happen once a machine passes the Turing Test
advanced intelligence can do many things, right?
 
Weird things will happen regardless of any arbitrary test I set against technology.
 
too, of course
it's a little scary
 
Avv
Hello Guys, have you used zmq module before in Python? If yes, do you think it's the best option for high performance messaging system or you prefer pyscala please?
 
I have used zmq in the past but not pyscala. What is your application requirement?
 
Avv
8:29 PM
@roganjosh. Thanks. It should have very low latency
 
I'm not even sure they're analogous
 
Avv
@roganjosh. Very low latency is the major requirement
Not sure if zmq is a good choice or you recommend alternatives?
 
Low latency with what? They do different things
 
Avv
Low latency real time image processing
 
8:32 PM
Zmq doesn't do image processing?
 
Avv
@roganjosh. ZMQ is just a communication manager in this case that queues requests to server (SUB)
 
But you're queuing for a Spark cluster?
If so, then I definitely don't have an opinion and will graciously bow out
 
Avv
@roganjosh. Not for spark cluster but for local server
 
I'm not joining a private chat over this. You can explain the proper application here and get something other than just my opinion. Please just make sure your requirements are clear
 
Avv
Thanks
 
8:54 PM
@0x263A nah, I don't believe in it
 
 
1 hour later…
10:04 PM
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72900805

I'm thinking of doing some kind of masterpost (as a new canonical, with reference links for more specific issues) along the lines of "exactly what needs to be taken care of in order to `import` my module?".
 
sounds like a bit of a rabbit hole
 
Alice had fun though? :p
 
@KarlKnechtel awesome
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні it is, which is exactly why I want to have something like that, which could potentially be a canonical for someone who actually wants a checklist, and a signpost (directory?) for dupe-closers who identified someone else's specific issue quickly.
 
@JonClements Did she? I think we have different interpretations of "fun". And you wonder why you're reclaiming billions of rows from a truncation? :P
 
10:11 PM
@roganjosh I blame the white rabbit personally :p
 
Probably fair!
 

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