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00:00 - 10:0010:00 - 23:00

10:00
./gasp
@ParitoshSingh it depends on how it's implemented; here it won't even have anything to do beside reading files and showing it on screen; you can't get away with a lots of trick to make this at least has fast as the C version
"I have this virtualbox image and I want to edit my save file of prince of persia 2"
(the image is windows and it has a dosbox image in it)
@NordineLotfi no no. im telling you you dont understand just how much of a speed difference there is.
I'm doubting Python can even manage to push text to the screen as fast as C. But I could be surprised, I suppose.
@CodyGray same
10:01
@ParitoshSingh I do understand even though I admit I don't know C. I benchmark less and use it all the time for more than just reading logs
But honestly we shouldn't try dissuading Nordine from his project. Nothing wrong with attempting the unlikely.
I cannot bring myself to agree with the second sentence.
we can take it at face value that he wants to implement this, and we've told him we think it's futile for multiple reasons
there's not much to say beyond that
I mean, it's just for viewing text...it's pretty tame as a project, so questioning whether it's useful or not isn't really needed for something like that
@AndrasDeak yes, but if you look around on UL post, you'll know what I mean. When you use Linux and breath linux (that sounded better in my head) you honestly have a specific workflow that's hard to explain to someone who don't do it/use it
and we can leave it at that
10:03
@NordineLotfi you're trying to gauge what the language brings to the table compared to python by timing a tool, without having an equivalent tool to compare the times against. But your fundamental desire is to have the new tool be faster. did i understand that correctly?
but I of course don't mind being challenged; I do love a good conversation
@NordineLotfi OK. How long do you have to be "breathing" linux to see the light?
Longer than me, apparently.
Yeah, I've been using Linux for quite a while.
@ParitoshSingh not really faster; only on a specific instance (which isn't implemented yet) but should be faster (for that specific usage, beside viewing text which would still be slightly faster on less(1) than on Python of course). Fundamental desire is a bit more detailed so I guess I should make a readme and structure it so it's easier to read than my own comments...
10:05
I think I'm breathing the wrong light.
FWIW, I do think reimplementing established tools is a good way to learn. I'd just be careful about that 100GB scale...
We were talking about a use-case for mmap earlier...
@MisterMiyagi learn, yes. Use the actual tool? :P
@AndrasDeak I don't want to say it's the light. I'm not arrogant to think I have a better workflow than most people; I just said that because, when you have a specific workflow that works for you and maybe some people who do the same as you, it's hard to see it, as another person, as being "good" when you never used it for as long as that person
@NordineLotfi that wasn't really the important part of my question
10:06
@AndrasDeak User feedback is important. Past-MM taught me a lot, grinch that he is.
@CodyGray No, I think you might have a better light than me on that specific part (linux) but I disgress
@MisterMiyagi yeah, I don't intend to actually make the python clone also support huge files like the C version does, but, I guess I'll try and see for myself if it's in vain or not...(and you're right in saying it's also a good way to learn)
I'm asking about the "how long" because the people born when I started using linux are legally adults roughly everywhere in the world. I haven't had a windows install in about 15 years.
And I'm by far not the only one like that here. We can agree that you have special needs, but pulling the linux card won't really help you here.
I wonder how large of files MS-DOS Editor can open :-)
Is there 64-bit DOS? Heck, is there 32-bit DOS? :P
@AndrasDeak hmm, I was already aware you used Linux for longer than I have, but I don't think you can truly compare things based on how long you use it (while I said that myself earlier, I meant it in a diffetent pov). That pov would be following something I can't really explain, but I guess you can call it "preferences" if it help us both
10:10
@AndrasDeak There is actually a 32-bit DOS.
@NordineLotfi OK
@NordineLotfi okay, this seems like a much more mellow expectation from this task than the initial impression. If this is the goal, just to see the difference and to learn, then im all for it
@AndrasDeak I wasn't pulling that card to do anything beside explaining what I meant really. It's all a question of preferences and perspective/pov
Yeah, I think it's easy enough to admit there are some weird workflows out there.
@ParitoshSingh yeah. If it works better than the original tool, then I might use it as replacement, if not, who knows. I don't know what the future hold tbh
10:11
Maybe next you could work on a tool to reduce the size of your text files? I don't know, just a thought.
Maybe break them up somehow...
ARJ or bust
@NordineLotfi define "better"
@CodyGray there is indeed. But then again, it's hard to paint a workflow in a good light when 1. the other party never used or were in your shoes 2. you try to describe it in text only instead of videos, project, result, etc
@ParitoshSingh better for Nordine
@ParitoshSingh I said this based on my own view, which again would take longer to explain here; I guess i should write a detailed readme for that project
10:12
I don't think videos will help
I don't know; seeing someone work in a certain way as videos can speak volume, but maybe that's just me
i'll be completely honest, i have mentally skipped the conversation related to "workflow", and im not even sure why that started being discussed
@NordineLotfi I think anyone will accept it if you just say "I have weird workflows and use cases and reimplementing it might help me". Just don't try to justify it with dubious reasoning.
@ParitoshSingh mostly because I mentioned I made that tool/clone because I had reasons in mind, mostly because of a workflow I have with the original tool
@NordineLotfi i think thats not a bad idea at all.
10:14
@AndrasDeak ah yes. I guess that work too
I wasn't trying to justify it though, just explaining my reasoning
I apologize if you thought I was making excuse/justifying it :)
And now I suggest we move on because I think this discussion has jumped the shark twice
I wasn't trying to stop you, just nitpicking.
Everyone has their skill set.
@CodyGray I don't mind nitpicking/being challenged as I said earlier; I do like conversation too
@AndrasDeak Thanks for that man was curious ^^
What man was curious?
10:18
the panda who shot and left
did the panda used a bamboo for that or?
Specifically, a bamboo cannon.
"ok panda, go ahead line up the shot and you can.. no wait dang it stop eating that! gah!"
They only eat the leaves, so it's plausible (for anyone who possibly hasn't got the reference )
@JonClements I don’t remember exactly “thrashing” anyone.. I think it was mostly luck because I was never good at Duke Nukem? 😅
10:22
You want me to use this shoot to shoot? Nah, I think I'm going to leave the leaves alone.
cbg
@roganjosh I linked that earlier, but with a different cover.
@poke and yet, Doom and Duke have very similar mechanics somehow
at least that's what I noticed when I played both of them
Oh they definitely do
Ah, then I look foolish for not looking back through the transcript :P
10:22
oops, meant Duke actually
Weren't they designed by many of the same people?
@CodyGray they used a similar engine I think. Don't know much detail about it though
I played Doom only very rarely (even rarer than Duke which at least was something I played during my childhood every now and then)
@poke !!!
cbg
!!! !
10:24
How are you doing?
Glad to see everyone is still around here :)
for certain values of "everyone" :)
Life is keeping me busy but other than that pretty good :)
heh
glad to hear that
I’m just feeling a bit burned out from online communities these days. It’s hard to motivate me to be active in any chat really :/
10:27
Oh yeah, I totally get that. Especially places where random help seekers appear.
Even when you can join a Collective?!?
There isn’t a Python collective yet!!!!11 (there isn’t yet, right? :P)
time for us to buy one
10:29
@poke Depends. Does Google own Python yet?
no, that's microsoft
Wow, this room is really going to the dogs (hi there @joncle!)
@AndrasDeak Yeah, I joined a large C# discord some time ago and managed to spend a single day dealing with lots of people asking very basic questions in four separate channels. That was just too much so I stopped doing that immediately :D
@CodyGray I recall Python's creator work at Google, afaik
hehe, I can imagine
@NordineLotfi nope
10:30
@poke That sounds like one of the circles of hell. What sin did you commit to deserve that?
I guess I really prefer working with more “complicated” questions these days
Because "complicated" questions come from more "complicated" people...
@AndrasDeak You're right, this was from way back then...now they're working at MS :)
@CodyGray I was very shortly baited by custom Discord roles based on activity. So I thought I had to become active there to get better roles. – I decided it wasn’t worth the effort afterwards.
didn't know the last part though
10:32
@poke Not like the effort you put in to gain "reputation" here, eh?
@CodyGray I don't know; sometimes their questions aren't too complicated if you can be in their shoes...emphasis on sometimes
@CodyGray Not “complicated” in a bad way but just more challenging. I just don’t want to deal with “how do you ask for user input” or “print something in a for loop” any more…
@poke just close as a dupe
Right... I guess what I mean is, more complex/challenging questions come from people who are already able to help themselves.
"ask this guy from 20 minutes ago"
10:33
Cannot close as dupe in a chat community sadly :D
@AndrasDeak "he doesn't know either :-("
But yeah, there were literally situations during that one day where I referred to a discussion I just finished in one of the other rooms.
@CodyGray not sure how to interpret that,,, but I'll go for thankful you're still around and try to lick you or something? :p
sounds like you needed three rounds of blood transfusion afterward
10:34
@JonClements Seems appropriate, yes.
@CodyGray was expecting a "sod off" on that one... can't inject humour into it now :p
Haha. I am not that mean!
you're that median
It's just my mode
looks skewed to me.
10:39
(Are that pandas jokes?)
statistically speaking, yes
Pretty average ones
Let's not deviate too far.
uhhhm
just try to act normal
10:41
Your confidence interval is decreasing?
Don't worry; the effect size is small
groans :p
are you sure, or was that just hypothesis? (chuckle. rbrb)
Oh hey puppers!
right when i was about to head off too :(
anyone fancy taking on a job where someone else did a truncate table on a live DB?
All of your work involves cleaning up someone else's messes
rofl. was their name bobby?
10:45
@CodyGray seems so
How do you even clean up after that?
Just go ahead and truncate the rest of the tables for consistency?
@ParitoshSingh good to see you around - no doubt see you soon.. take care!
@CodyGray scratching my head on that one
@CodyGray lol - no
Oh, I know what you do.
You restore from the backup :-)
I'd go for that... but there isn't one that's available
they might be f*ed
Do you still get paid if they are?
10:51
@JonClements what was the DB from? MySQL? something else?
I think that certain DB implementation have a cache of the live DB somewhere, not sure of specifics though but there always a chance
Whereas other database implementations just have a field you can read that returns the string, "Have you learned your lesson now?"
@NordineLotfi think 47 DB's across all the continents with 2billion rows
f* it, they'll just have get to warm backup from yesterday night
@JonClements o-o wow
whoever did the truncate isn't going to be in a job much longer I think... why oh why, someone was given that access is beyond me... but I'm a mere mortal blah blah blah
umm... didn't even trigger the deletion triggers that would normally put it in an audit table so can't restore from there...
it's going to be a fun day
@AndrasDeak nice, didn't know those :o (and on point too)
wow, they're actually hosting this on github? first time I see something further from a blog being hosted there...(although I do vaguely recall of another artist who host their site and arts on gitlab, but still)
most meant this: framagit.org/peppercarrot
it's on a gitlab instance
11:38
Why not host on GitHub?
@CodyGray that's a good question; I guess they had a reason to do so since they're doing this for a while now (and maybe at that time, github didn't have a specific options/were supporting something they wanted but that gitlab provided)
that or asking them would be the closest to the truth :}
Yeah, sorry; I typed GitLab by habit, because it's so much better than GitHub and it's the one I use.
ah, yeah; what I said still apply here since it depends on one priorities/preferences
then again, you can't host your own github instance I think? so I guess that's another reason they went that way too (although I wouldn't be surprised if github have some way to do that for corporate/big companies later on)
I don't think someone's web comic cares
yeah, but the artist of those web comic might :P
11:59
@JonClements What were they even trying to do? By the sounds of it, they're not exactly wanting to stick around, anyway. That's gotta be malicious?
12:44
@roganjosh I never try to put stuff like that down to malicious, rather just incompentence or sometimes just not realising we're actually logged into the wrong DB
I generally wouldn't suspect foul play, either, but this is pushing it. I'm reminded of the Blackadder sketch where several candidates don't turn up for election because they "accidentally brutally murdered themselves in a shaving accident" :P
I just put it down to a rule thumb that you don't give newb that level of access
think I've got it though, restored a warm image and then pushed through some files to bring it up to date
probably out by roughly 2 minutes... but can't do much more for it
don't think this poor guy is going to be working for my client much longer
Look at the bright side: some day, he can make a YouTube video about it.
12:54
YT would have been nice when I first entered the field and made f-ups, only to the tune of £3million or something
There's something here called the Mailing Preference Service (MPS)... and not sure quite how I did it, but you're meant to exclude everyone from that on your data processing...
and yeah, I had some inverted logic, so it included everyone that didn't want to be contacted
... for a company that was promoting for consumer rights and promoting the MPS
can't say it was nice to be in my direct Manager's office and then CEO's...
That had to be a single byte error.
Can't you blame cosmic rays or something?
Tell them they need to get radiation-hardened servers to prevent something serious and unexpected like this from ever happening again?
I got promoted
(seems very UK Government now)
Haha
Yes, Minister.
this was 2004 though :p
do kind of miss the days when you had to write assembler and put it on cassette tapes
13:13
Wait, those days are gone?
@CodyGray Vinyls are making a come back?
Assembler, at least!
@CodyGray much prefer if I want the result of "x + y", not faffing around with registers and bitops
Bit ops like "+"? ;-)
 
1 hour later…
14:54
@JonClements That's a fun record! My favourite is still the guy I knew that worked at Manchester Airport in charge of driving the vehicle that carries luggage to the plane. On this particular day, he was told that all the luggage was loaded so started driving away... except the conveyor belt ramp thing was still attached to the plane. He peeled it like a tin can while everyone was on board :P
If my memory serves, that only came in at just over £1m, though
 
7 hours later…
21:35
Hey python people, anybody remember what the fix for this is?

FutureWarning: Passing (type, 1) or '1type' as a synonym of type is deprecated; in a future version of numpy, it will be understood as (type, (1,)) / '(1,)type'


(Pdb) (values.dtype, [(view_label, view_type, count)])
(dtype('uint32'), [('split_label', 'u4', 1)])
np.dtype((values.dtype, [(view_label, view_type, count)]))
What is that supposed to create? A structured array?
@MisterMiyagi PyThOn?
@Mikhail omit the traiing 1?
interactively execute the line in pdb that warns, you'll see that the result is missing the 1
you'll probalby have to choose non-deprecated options from numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/arrays.dtypes.html
 
1 hour later…
22:47
cbg guys, I was making a tic tac toe game and chose to store the input into a list and then later do the checking, like brute force, but for that I need to know how many different index positions are needed to check if a user has won, I think there are 7 ways a player can win tic tac toe, am I correct ?
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