« first day (3865 days earlier)      last day (1066 days later) » 

1:00 AM
cbg
 
1:10 AM
I saved myself some embarrassment today. I was about to submit a Python bug that "ß".upper() does not give the new Unicode uppercase "ẞ" but instead gives "SS".
I was trying to find test characters for my changes to pyparsing to use str.casefold() (introduced in Py3.3) instead of str.lower() for caseless parse matching. The str.casefold docs cite the "ß" character as a poor choice for using str.lower(), since it is already lower-case, whereas using str.casefold() will return "ss".
But when I try "ß".upper() I don't get the new "ẞ" character - I get "SS". (Sorry, looks like they are pretty much indistinguishable in chat.)
I was mid-way through composing a Python issue, when I just had this nagging thought - "maybe the Unicode standard is where the error is, not in Python"?
 
1:30 AM
The Unicode code point definitions can be downloaded at unicode.org/Public/3.2-Update/UnicodeData-3.2.0.txt, as a ';' delimited file. Here are the entries for lower and upper "ß":
00DF;LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S;Ll;0;L;;;;;N;;;;;
1E9E;LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S;Lu;0;L;;;;;N;;;;00DF;
(This is really a nice ripe use case for doing some littletable examples, like find all the numeric characters that represent values > 9. There are a lot.)
The last 3 columns are codepoints for the lowercase character, the uppercase character, and the titlecase character. So we see that the uppercase character correctly points to its lowercase counterpart, but the lowercase character doesn't point to anything. So it really isn't Python's fault after all.
 
so you can report it to unicode, and it will be fixed when the "eating tide pods" emoji is added
kudos on the investigation :)
@PaulMcG and both letters casefold into 'ss'
 
It makes me wonder just what casefold is trying to do - maybe come up with a third case that is neither upper nor lower? I was also interested to see that there is a distinction between a lower case character's upper case counterpart vs its title case counterpart. A quick littletable search turns up mostly ligature-type characters.
Like dz is lowercase (\u01f3), its uppercase is DZ(\u01f1) but its titlecase is Dz(\u01f2)
 
Makes sense
 
 
1 hour later…
user15300490
2:57 AM
Hi guys, I know this is a python chatroom but a fellow CS student is need of some advice. I am big dilemma choosing between 2 classes: data visualization and programming languages. Data vis teaches JavaScript while PL teaches Haskell. From a practical standpoint, JS seems a lot more useful in the industry but I've also heard that learning FP and Haskell will make me a better programmer, be able to crack coding interviews etc. Any advice for me?
 
3:13 AM
as someone who was attending interviews (~ 4 months back) no one asked me functional programming concepts, its all about what you list in your CV
if the job asks for Functional Languages then yes you must learn that
 
 
3 hours later…
6:09 AM
@amnesic take both
@PaulMcG the thing though...
ß naturally is lower case because it is just a ligature
@PaulMcG and no one in their right mind would have written all capital blackletters :'D
13
Q: Is all-caps blackletter no longer taboo?

Aaron BrickReceived typographic wisdom holds that blackletter (“Old English”, “Gothic”) text only looks good in lower case or with initial capitalization — never with capital letters in series. However, in the last couple of decades, all-caps blackletter type and calligraphy have become normalized in a few ...

the capital ß was accepted in Germany only in 2017 so idk how many programs would break if that rule was introduced now :'D
 
6:30 AM
I was following the django-channel tutorial and I don't understand where does "lobby" come from in the url: http://127.0.0.1:8000/chat/lobby/ (here). We haven't mentioned "lobby" anywhere in the code...
I searched "lobby" in the docs but it only shows up in the tutorials and not in the actual docs.
Where does this "lobby" part come from..? Does it have to be "lobby"? Is there some official docs that I can follow to understand this..?
 
6:50 AM
@Yatin window.location.pathname = '/chat/' + roomName + '/';
path('<str:room_name>/', views.room, name='room'),
@Yatin baaaaad narrative docs
Type in “lobby” as the room name and press enter. You should be redirected to the room view at 127.0.0.1:8000/chat/lobby but we haven’t written the room view yet, so you’ll get a “Page not found” error page.
@PaulMcG also only @AndrasDeak ians could have conceivably used something like ẞ word-initially (but of course not written like that) :D
 
:O Thank you @AnttiHaapala I was rather confused by that
@AnttiHaapala BTW, no, I don't get an error... I directly typed 127.0.0.1:8000/vavevavdvc/lobby into the search bar and it directed me to it...
I guess that is what ended up confusing me most... if it would have given an error then I would have understood
 
well that shouldn't work.
maybe you meant /chat/vavevavdvc/
 
7:05 AM
Oh yeah sorry
 
 
3 hours later…
9:47 AM
@AnttiHaapala - thanks for the further notes. The Unicode data files even mark this character as anomalous, so I have to think further on how to handle it, if at all (pyparsing is already performance-challenged, and this would involve adding special code for this one character in a main code path).
 
cbg guys, are there alternatives to datetime.datetime.today().replace(hour=6, minute=0, second=0, microsecond=0) ?, I want "today 6:00 am"
I tried adding time delta to a date object datetime.date.today() + datetime.timedelta(hours=6) but that still returns a date object
the first one seems wordy, nothing else concerns me
 
10:02 AM
The alternative is datetime(today.year, today.month, today.day, 6)
 
today is datetime.datetime.today()?
I should probably from import this, that alone is too long :/
 
yeah
 
thanks, I will use what you suggested
 
10:20 AM
@AnttiHaapala Whisky can be Scotch, but if you suggest Irn Bru is anything other than Scottish you will never make friends with the Scots!
 
 
2 hours later…
11:59 AM
@AnttiHaapala depends on what eszett used to sound like. The only szc I can think of at word start is "szcintilláció", and probably other similar loan words.
 
12:18 PM
@AndrasDeak eszett = sz
 
And what is s...?
oh you mean German sz.
 
I mean hungarian sz
 
then I don't get it
all^[citation needed] European languages start words with that sound
 
lol with that sound.
but in German it is not written as sz in the beginning of a word.
 
How so?
@AnttiHaapala if they have two writings for the same sound they are the ones being weird :P
 
12:24 PM
pretty sure almost every language has two writings for the same sound.
even Finnish has :P
 
That's silly
 
trying to find blackletter hungarian :P
was it not ever used over there? :D
 
Fraktur? Unlikely.
They used it with German
 
doesn't look much :F
First book in Finnish ever, uses both ſ and s for s...
last line: Jeſus :D
but no ſs
need to find 2nd page
 
Jeſus suggests that they were two different sounds. Jézus? :P
The dentist's tool was Hungarian s and s was Hungarian sz, was it not?
 
12:35 PM
Finnish of today has only one sibilant.
 
first Hungarian-language printed book hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1jl:Komjati_sztpal.jpg
> Magyarſag aes ertelme.
dentist's tool is definitely an s there, and the s too probably
 
yea, then there is the funny z
 
I can only see funny z which is probably just z
> tulaydonytotta
now that's funny, because today that would be "tulajdonította", two very different sounds
 
there too, ſ is in middle but never final.
 
1533. And it's legible with some sweat and blood an eblow grease.
@AnttiHaapala there's a "Chriſtuſnak" which is "for/to Christ" and the root would be Chriſtuſ. Wonder if they'd switch to terminal s in that case.
@AnttiHaapala z at word start sounds like sz today
 
12:40 PM
see 5th line in ABC-kiria :P
 
"zenth" is "szent" (saint)
 
Cristus sen
 
@AnttiHaapala hmm?
ah, what you linked
 
written as Criſtus ſen
sorry 6th line :P
@AndrasDeak ok so here goes my theory that you could have had it as a ligature even in hungarian :D
 
This is funny actually, I was never taught this in school. I had to look up what the first Hungarian-language book was. (I don't mind; I'd have hated to have to learn this for A-levels.)
I'm trying to figure out how surprising it is that I can read that after 500 years. I'm leaning towards "pretty".
Shakespeare came later and I find him harder to read :D Of course that's not my native language...
 
12:43 PM
The Finnish, it is harder to read the blackletters than the text itself.
 
yeah, that's the same here
 
ABC kiria was printed in 1543
ok here goes my theory actually, back then it might have had a different sound too... found the 4th page that has neiſſe and not neiſse for näissä
 
Does that mean I'm right?
 
not sure :P
hard to know exactly how Finnish was pronounced back then.
 
that's as good as it gets :'D
 
12:53 PM
@AndrasDeak I don't think I follow what's going on here, but Shakespeare is considered difficult even if English is your native language
 
@roganjosh that was my hunch but I wasn't sure
The X context is that eszett/scharfes s is weird. The Y context is that the first Hungarian-language book was written in 1533, about 50 years before Shakespeare, yet I find it easier to read its Hungarian (the language is clear, I mostly just have to get through the typography).
 
Shakespeare's works have a lot of mythos around them (is that the right word?). In reality, if you spoke to someone on the street, they'd probably say that it was nonsense and that they hated having to study it at school
 
I guess the question is whether it's representative of the English of his time. If I recall correctly he wrote his plays from low to high brow, so probably.
 
I think I'd have a tough time trying to answer that. The language written around his time can be somewhat impenetrable in any context, though for some reason his language apparently has a distinction. Given that I find both examples unfamiliar, I'm not sure I could call out any differences
Also on Shakespeare, there's like a billion analyses on subtext. If you're wondering whether I could semantically understand the language, I probably could. I just definitely wouldn't understand all the nuance that other people tell me is in the words. I find it hard to believe that the Average Joe that just turned up to a theatre would have appreciated it either
 
1:54 PM
I wonder where the pandas overhead comes in this
Actually, the bottom example of this is even more confusing :/
 
without having taken a look yet at the problem properly, the two operations in your first link dont give the same df to me. am i missing something
 
Oh, in that case it needs addressing because the first link is the second-highest answer on the dupe I found. I'll test it out now
The ordering is different but I think the content of the lists are the same @ParitoshSingh?
 
i see
knee jerk reaction, i don't think that's an apples to apples comparison then though.
 
2:10 PM
Well, putting lists into a df is pretty bonkers to begin with :P But I suspect this ordering issue is a minor point in the grand scheme
 
haha aye. as for the order being a minor thing, im not sure
 
2:28 PM
Heh, it's fun when thing get put in context. Mid-way through going through that, my mum's had a call that the engineering manager forgot he left the heating jacket on an IBC full of wax over night. The whole thing is now basically welded to the floor. At least our profession won't be out chipping molten plastic and wax off the floor tomorrow :P
Melting an IBC and its contents is... impressive... though
 
guess they only heard half of mister miyagi's intructions... wax on... sorry what came next?
 
What they'll need is imploding dynamite. I feel like I told this anecdote before but "imploding" hasn't come up in my search
 
hah, that is pretty amusing. Im guessing this so called "imploding" dynamite is probably something along the lines of directed explosion in this case
 
My dad took the mick with one of the new starters at the factory many years ago. Similar to "go ask for a long stand". Basically, sugar syrup sets like glass once it's on the floor (if a sweet machine farts and starts pouring it out) and needs chiseling up. He had this poor teen get dressed up in full PPE, put up barriers and warning signposts everywhere. Then he had an engineer drill a well in the solidified sugar and put a machine fuse (the imploding dynamite) in the hole
Then this guy was stood with a giant pole with a giant match on the end of it, trying to light the "imploding dynamite"
I don't suppose these things can get passed HR these days!
 
i cannot even begin to describe how ridiculously awesome this sounds
 
2:43 PM
Factory work needs a laugh every now and then :)
 
It certainly does.
 
3:00 PM
Ah, yes. Elaborately humilating newbies. One of humanity's great traditions :P
3
 
If it makes you think on your feet, is it a bad thing?
I mean, life can throw a whole lot of nonsense at you whether you wanted it or not. Maybe it'd be better to be equipped to negotiate it
 
Life generally doesn't try to intentionally screw you over from people you thought you could trust
It happens but that hardly can't be the moral of such pranks :P
 
@AndrasDeak This is my origin story, so it perhaps answers some questions :P
 
should've gone into woodworking where you're told to soak the logs in wood and to gather the sawdust in buckets
 
I've never been terribly fond of the "You yammed up: you trusted me" line.
 
3:16 PM
I don't think that's what it conveys, though I get the point. I do think that one of the reasons that I can communicate with people on the shop floor is that I went through it for many years in almost every school holiday and people will have a joke at your expense
So you either live with that and find ways to cope, or give up.
 
Absolutely. I'm just not terribly fond of prank culture. Even if I understand how that's normal especially in blue-collar apprentice scenarios.
 
there are different levels/degrees of prank. Some are innocent and fun. Others are not. and the difference between the two is subjective. The safe way to go about it is to avoid it altogether in order to avoid upsetting anyone. But there are many social/bonding benefits that come from people being able to laugh at each other and themselves. There is no hard and fast rule that you can employ that will protect people from trusting idiots who abuse these rituals.
 
There is still a positive - it gives people things to talk about at the pub after work and something to recount. It's a humourous anecdote that, whilst maybe embarrassing, will actually help you socially. Things feel stale now; my fails are all technical and probably cost us money
 
3:38 PM
well, we have conscription in Finland.
 
"humilating"...
 
4:11 PM
is there anyway I can avoid giving a bounty? lets assume I get only one answer and that somehow gets 2 upvotes, can I downvote that and let the bounty expire?
 
@python_user no
Best upvoted new answer gets half the bounty if you don't assign it
Why don't you want them to get it? Crap answer with 2 upvotes?
You lost the rep the moment when you offered the bounty.
 
4:28 PM
I just bountied a question at code review, and last time I wasnt really ok with the answer and this also appears to be the same :/
i have got no comments in the past 2 days, so whoever usually watches the tag has already seen my question
the half bounty rule seems ok to me
 
Then just do nothing
 
I got more responses from this room than an entire site :D
 
All other sites have much less traffic
 
yeah, I remember you mentioning that
have a nice eve guys, rbrb
 
4:44 PM
rbrb
 
can someone teach me how to use this piece of shEt? github.com/OpenAPITools/openapi-generator altogether with github.com/thomaxxl/safrs
github.com/zaxoavoki/openapi-python-test <- I have wrote a server (server.py) with safrs, then generated client files with openai generator and server's spec json file.
How i'm trying to create a user in client.py and I'm getting error all the time.
is it even possible to make it works?
hoping for your help guys
 
5:57 PM
a) Please don't post code as screenshots;
b) What error? - We aren't psychic ...;
c) How do we know it doesn't work?
 
actually, I have no idea how to use it, that's why I cant even show you my error
 
@entithat heads-up: please avoid expletives here
 
that's why I replaced a char xd
 
yeah, no
just phrase it differently
 
ok, sorry
 
6:05 PM
it's alright
 
6:15 PM
@entithat Ok, but what's the error?
 
I think that generated code is broken on that openapi repo
at least for python
 
I suggest posting a question instead of asking here.
 
This is a question that would not be suited in the chats
@AndrasDeak What does this mean?
 
What do you think it means?
 
6:22 PM
Not sure, I googled it, but I don't get why the symbol of a snake eating its tail is related to messages not completely following the rules
 
Maybe we should've kept the name "Python Trash" after all...
 
it's not trash, it's alternatively useful
 
7:03 PM
And I believe "The Rotating Knives" is a reference to the Monty Python "Architects Sketch", yes?
 
we should call it "Elsewhere"
 
If straying from Monty Python refs, I propose "The Cornfield"
 
7:23 PM
@PaulMcG indeed
 
7:44 PM
o/
 
\o
 
 
2 hours later…
10:14 PM
recbg
had to come here to witness @RobGrant being in the room
 

« first day (3865 days earlier)      last day (1066 days later) »