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12:22 AM
@roganjosh true, expiration data is not in the standard scannable barcode that producers put on food either (there was a text based reader for perishables but was terrible at fresh produce). To be fair, with fresh produce we just had an object with established equations based on category which was used to determine exp. date (and daily warn cooks)
^ yes, real. yes, based on a warehouse database system altered to handle a the massive food levels that military chowhalls have to deal with (yes, I wish I had invented it ;)
 
12:52 AM
Folks, what is the guidance for users who post links to their own youtube channel/videos in answers? Is that subject to a spam flag? I'm not talking about one here or there, this is pathological, almost on every post
 
@cs95 if it seems like a pattern, could be
if almost every post then yes
Provide links and explanation to make it easier for the mods. Then wait a month for it to be handled.
not spam flag, custom flag
Always good to see Miyagi when I start thinking I'm up too late
 
OK, sounds good. Done, thanks :)
yea, month sounds about right.
 
 
8 hours later…
8:49 AM
@LinkBerest It's a real bummer and a blocker to something that I think could solve a huge food wastage problem :'(
All the component pieces are there, except when you need human input. Humans don't like input any more
 
9:13 AM
Where did Aran help you with the sessions? I don't see the need for the ping there and I'd already lost patience with you
 
I can't remember any such thing either
 
@cs95 If they're relevant, and there's a proper disclaimer added (e.g., a note that the answerer is affiliated with the YouTube channel), then it's not really a problem.
 
That would be quite impressive, considering I don't know django
 
Enough, @VisheshMangla. I don't feel the need to add much more considering the huge amount of feedback you've been given on how you're taking up other people's time. It's clear that Aran (and I) don't recall such a thing happening, so don't follow it up with another ping
 
Anyone else have a sudden interest in a userscript that lowers the ping's volume? I know I do
 
9:19 AM
@VisheshMangla You are not entitled to getting help in a chat room, even if you post an MCVE. If you have an MCVE and want help, then ask a proper question on Stack Overflow. Participating in chat is a privilege, and annoying the other participants in chat is not a good way to maintain that privilege.
In particular, it is very annoying to ping people indiscriminately. You've been asked not to do that, yet you keep doing it. That's why you were briefly kicked from this chat room.
 
9:38 AM
First of all , I can't ask on SO, banned already, secondly I wasn't told what you said now
 
yesterday, by Andras Deak
@VisheshMangla I came back to the transcript being full of your confusing questions still, with no real outcome other than wasting the time and patience of the regulars here. So let me officially escalate your level to "risk of being a help vampire". Read the linked guide, and change how you ask here, because very soon you will not be able to ask here at all. And for reference:
yesterday, by Andras Deak
@VisheshMangla No. You have depleted your trial-and-error options. You will actually have to step back and spend a lot more time thinking about what to ask and how. If you don't have a proper, informative MCVE you're doing it wrong. If you say "sorry there was a typo" you're doing it wrong. If you say "google gives nonsense results" you're doing it wrong. You seem to be missing the basics of python, so learn it first. Finnish a good tutorial. This room is not a replacement for that.
 
Anyone mind helping me out for a minute? I need someone to ping me a couple of times over in sandbox
 
yesterday, by Andras Deak
Aug 20 '19 at 9:35, by PM 2Ring
Imagine that you won a competition, and the prize is a free session with a Python think-tank who normally charge $1000 per hour. Don't waste that prize!
 
I didn't ask anything like this yesterday
I lowered the frequency
 
@VisheshMangla you got ^ those and a bunch of other clear messages that your behaviour is wrong. No, we didn't spell out that "asking in chat is a privilege". The problem is the same.
@VisheshMangla great. Now increase the quality too.
 
9:43 AM
hmm, ok
 
about pathlib resolve function with filepath = pathlib.Path('config_file\config.ini').resolve() the path gets recognized on my pycharm and on while running the code on my laptop without pycharm
but for some reason the path gets not recognized on my other machine
 
make sure you use a raw string literal if there are literal backslashes in it, or even better, use forward slashes in paths
probably not the problem, but a good practice anyway
 
Also make sure the current working directory is set to whatever path you expect it to be
99% of the time, people who use relative paths want their paths to be relative to their python script, not relative to the CWD
 
@Aran-Fey changing the the cwd solved the problem, how can I set the path relative to the cwd ?
 
Paths are relative to the CWD automatically. If you want them to be relative to somewhere else, you have to manually resolve them relative to that
 
10:16 AM
Super new here. Can we ask a question about how to solve a problem that doesn't need to be necessarily done in python in this chat if we are currently solving that problem in python?
 
Is it a coding challenge by any chance?
If it's regarding Python, there's no specific rule against asking such problems, but please be mindful of the room rules before asking
 
10:37 AM
@cs95 Yam, that looks yummy!
 
@VisheshMangla That would be a reason for you to be under increased scrutiny in chat. Having been blocked from asking questions on the main site suggests that perhaps you do not know how to ask a clear, answerable question. If you have reformed and are interested in earning back the ability to ask questions, then I recommend you read the Help Center article. There's also a FAQ on Meta.
 
Also:
yesterday, by Vishesh Mangla
oh nedbat said to me on #python that I m being help-vampire
 
@Amundsen do you know what the cwd was previously? in principle, resolve does cwd + rel_path – so getting back just the relative path would imply the cwd was empty before.
 
11:14 AM
Hiya guys, I have just written a c++ program that I am able to execute through the command line ./Program.exe -comand input_files.txt.

However running this in python makes nothing happen.
subprocess.run([r'Program.exe', '-command text.txt])
Can't find any related questions on Stack either.
 
It should be subprocess.run(['Program.exe', '-command', 'text.txt']) - each argument must be its own string in the list, and your final string need to be terminated correctly
29
Q: Calling app from subprocess.call with arguments

Mark IngramI'm a beginner in Python, and I've been trying to call a command line app, but it fails: >>> import subprocess as s >>> s.call("gpio -g read 17") Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/subprocess.py", line 470, in call retu...

 
You're right, noobie miss. Daniel Butler said different here:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15928956/how-to-run-an-exe-file-with-the-arguments-using-python
No wonder how it wouldn't compile. Now it works perfectly. Much obliged sir metatoaster.
But that was given shell=True.
 
sir metatoaster. I like it :)
 
Avoid shell=True because that can introduce issues.
Also it could be the case that particular program specifically requires an argument in that specific form.
 
Hmm, obviously designed for the Unix fork/exec APIs, not for Windows, where it'll just have to concatenate all of those individual strings again to call the native API :-)
 
11:21 AM
wellllll it's a lot more complicated than that, and tbh strings as an API really sucks.
Really though, looking through a lot of these answers, many of them are actually outright misleading or wrong...
 
Thanks for the heads up. Luckily my program doesn't need to think about shell injections as of now. But it's good to be aware of.
 
... or missing the necessary context, but yeah, you're welcome.
 
11:42 AM
I'm stumped by people's reluctance to learn even the most basic things. Op wonders why they get an error when comparing a string to a number. Their code is for x in range(str(hello), test1).
 
must be coming from javascript
 
@Aran-Fey you mean PHP (that would still be bad JavaScript)
Cause in PHP range("A", "D") would create (A,B,C,D). Still agree that people need to actually read a tutorial instead of trying to use SO as one
@roganjosh yeah the cooks always complained about it (usually in the vein of "why do we have to do inventory twice"). Good luck on solving that bottleneck :) (seriously it will be awesome when someone does)
 
12:03 PM
Hey guys, quick question: do you think writing
result_list = result_list + result
instead of
results = results + result
is more pythonic?
They are the same. That is a suggestion on code review
I have a "Mr Know it all" on my company, that seems to dislike code reviews, and other people telling them what to do
So he usually asks for references, or where did I see it should be this way
 
need more coffee. rebooting now.
 
Best reference I could mention him is the PEP20: Explicit is better than implicit
hahaha. Great idea! Always a good time for coffee
 
If you search the chat history for Hungarian notation, we've been through this before a lot.
Using result_list is not preferable over results.
If the precise type actually does matter, use results: List
Names should describe what a thing represents, not what it is.
 
Unfortunately we are still stuck on python 2
This way of typing is only available for a few projects. This is not one of them
 
There's results = ... # type: List for the pour souls still stuck in the past.
 
12:13 PM
I'll have a look into this Hungarian notation discussion. Thanks for the opinion
 
ugh, Hungarians and their notations
 
@MisterMiyagi "pour"? You must've had a bit too much coffee :P
 
Still pouring more coffee...
 
@Vini.g.fer my concern would be that I'd think that results is a container of result objects. In which case results += result is never correct.
(Well, almost never... but I wouldn't want to add a scalar result to a numpy array of results)
 
12:35 PM
@AndrasDeak is this strong enough for me to counter the Brexit swipes? :P
@LinkBerest Is it a surprise that I don't sleep well? :P I'm at a loss on this one :(
 
1:34 PM
@metatoaster What would the necessary context be?
 
1:51 PM
@sockevalley Less missing but more not specify the context, e.g. how the program might differ with how the arguments are to be accepted, it might be able to interpret '-config some_target' to some effect, but that answer would not be applicable to another program that expect them as two distinct arguments.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:32 PM
TIL: on Windows, if a directory tree contains a junction to another dir, trying to delete the tree will also delete the files in the linked directory.
 
@MattDMo Junction? Is that like a symlink?
 
427
Q: "directory junction" vs "directory symbolic link"?

PacerierIn the context of NTFS: MKLINK [[/D] | [/H] | [/J]] Link Target /D Creates a directory symbolic link. Default is a file symbolic link. /H Creates a hard link instead of a symbolic link. /J Creates a Directory Junction. Link specifies the new symbolic link name. Target specifi...

 
4:53 PM
Guys I have built a Python code for my MVP, and I need to serve it to my users through a simple webpage as userinput for the code, and output. What is the easiest way to achieve that?
I'm a beginner and Flask is very hard.
 
I don't think it gets much easier than flask. I've heard good things about pyramid, though
 
5:16 PM
Can someone tell me what's the difference between virtualenv and pipx? From what I gather it seems that pipx is a modern alternative to virtualenv but the virtualenv installation I linked says to install virtualenv using pipix.
 
pipx installs things you want to execute. virtualenvs contain things you want to import.
 
@PedroSpinola what is your MVP?
 
@rog
I'm building a startup. I'm not a developer, but I was able to write a python script to do what I intend
It was really hard but it's working great now.
 
Sure, but that wasn't what I asked
 
I've been trying to read some flask tutorials
but it's soome really advanced stuff
sry
 
5:20 PM
Thanks :)
 
my mvp
is a software to assist farmers
on choosing the write mix of chemicals to kill different weeds
depending on what weeds are present, and other farm variables
you think I'd be able to use some service like wix.com to serve my script to customers (as mvp only, of course) @roganjosh ?
 
I haven't used wix but I suspect that's a bad path
I don't think it'd be easy to tie your script to the front-end if you don't have full control of it
Still, this doesn't explain the MVP to me
 
when I say mvp I mean minimum viable product
don't know if we're thinking of the same lol
 
I know
 
what you wanna knoow?
 
5:29 PM
@Aran-Fey Thanks, this link expands on your summary about the difference between virtualenv and pipx.
 
He probably wants to know exacty what functionality you expect from the website.
 
What the MVP is. You've explained about the farming bit. I followed that. What's the front-end supposed to do/show?
 
I think I'm gonna hire someone to do it. Would take me few hundred hundred hours to learn and make it, but it's not a friendly environmnet for non-professionals unfortunately
 
an MCVE of sorts
 
frontend would be a user input asking for information on weeds and farm
 
5:30 PM
@PedroSpinola that's a reasonable approach if you're not a programmer and don't want to end up learning programming
 
and would return a list of treatments
sorted by lowest price
 
technically learning programming and building your MVP yourself would make you a professional ;)
 
well I've written a python code doing a lot of calculation and rules (700 lines) and I'm not a professional though :P
thing is it's oonly loogic. to deploy a website is something else, entirely. about 30 different techs employed etc
 
Lol
 
would need to learn proper html, js, database stuff, ubuntu, ssl etc etc
too hard if I'm not willing to becoome a pro after that right :P
 
5:32 PM
I don't know what I've been doing for the last 5 years, then :P
 
@Aran-Fey So lets say I want to run pip install -e on a repository I cloned from github that produces a file I can run with python3, which is the right tool for this, pipx or virtualenv?
 
you guys should build a wix.com for serving python scripts lol I would pay for it
it's 2020 shouldn't be too hard
 
Ok, joking aside, are you going to take this seriously now? You don't need wix or anything else, but you'll need to learn
 
@roganjosh or pay someone to do it
but that's not for this chatroom
 
That's the alternative
 
5:36 PM
I'm scared to be honest. I've tried following michael grinberg's flask mega tutorial
 
Ok, and what went wrong?
 
@MyWrathAcademia That's a bit weird. Installing with -e implies that you intend to modify the source code, and in addition to that you also want to execute it as a program? Why both?
 
@PedroSpinola the problem is that if you're missing the python fundamentals you can't really build on top
 
I got python fundamentals
 
a lot of things might not make any sense, which makes learning a lot harder if not impossible
@PedroSpinola ah
 
5:37 PM
But like for the simple purpose of having my database on a server, connected too flask, configured on a linux, etc etc etc seems soo overwhelming
Looks like I'll need to read 10's of tutorials lol
 
@PedroSpinola I don't do any web stuff so I don't have an objective impression, but my subjective one is that there's plenty of decent information about doing all of those. A lot of them included in the flask documentation itself.
 
I'm just a windows user who installed mysql and made a python script to read, calculate and write on it lmaoo
 
But yeah, reading a few tutorials is probably inevitable. That's how learning goes.
 
@Aran-Fey the instructions are from this github repository. Instead of installing that program globally I want to install it in an isolated environment, and wasn't sure whether virtualenv or pipx is the right tool?
 
If you want to execute it, pipx. If you want to import it, virtualenv.
 
5:40 PM
@Aran-Fey perhaps they mean something like a flask executable. Wouldn't virtualenv handle that too?
 
@PedroSpinola not really that funny, given that I'm a Windows user that's completely self-taught. But, lmao, I guess
 
maybe not
 
I have time for people who are serious about learning, and maybe I could point you in the right direction, but not with this attitude
 
@Aran-Fey I see, so both can install that program in a virtual environment, that's great. I want to execute whatever executable running pip install -e produces, so I will use pipx. Thanks.
 
@AndrasDeak AFAIK, executing a program that's installed in a virtualenv is only possible as long as the env is activated. So you're only shooting yourself in the foot by locking it in an env
 
5:43 PM
@Aran-Fey well, duh :P
but fair point, "isolated environment" might mean multiple things
 
hey, just doesn't it can only be imported from within the env doesn't necessarily mean the console scripts are also installed only within the env
 
@Aran-Fey When I start writing python code and need to use libraries or frameworks then my go-to tool for isolation packages installed with pip will be virtualenv via virtualenvwrapper.
 
@Aran-Fey Fair enough. Although messing with one's .bashrc or similar would be iffy
 
Don't take me wrong rogan, I'm serious about it all. Would you kindly point me to any learning resource I could be reading before going back to griberg's tutorial? It seems I need to understand some basics about web servers (not sure how to call them), installing and managing a mysql database to it, and having my script running inside the server while making queries to the db. All this before even thinking about serving a flask website.
 
I mean by install scripts
 
5:46 PM
@MyWrathAcademia Sounds good. Although I've never heard of virtualenvwrapper
 
@PedroSpinola It takes ~15 minutes to set up a full postgres server on Windows. It's been a while since I used MySQL but I think it's similar
 
I have it running on windows and it's fine. But I mean it seems having it running on a server is something entirely different, no?
 
nope
Same thing, you just repeat the procedure. What do you understand by "server"?
 
like a cloud server to host my website/script/db
but man
I gotta thank y'all
I'm gonna this
despite how hard it might be!
 
"Someone else's computer", in that case :)
 
5:50 PM
gonna do* this
 
@Aran-Fey Check it out, it just makes using virtualenv easier.
 
right @rog
thanks for clearing that out lol
suppose I'll have to eat from the borders
and learn these small stuff
gonna reboot into ubuntu and install mysql there to learn about how it's done
thanks a lot man
 
@Aran-Fey how do I tell pipx to allow me to modify the source code of a program I am installing?
 
this conversatioon helped me access some much necessary will power to do it lol
 
@PedroSpinola you can edit/delete messages for 2 minutes in chat
@PedroSpinola you can do it!
 
5:55 PM
@MyWrathAcademia You don't. Why would you need pipx's permission for that? Install it, find out where pipx put the source code, then modify it.
 
@Aran-Fey Okay. I thought there's a good reason why the github repo I linked instructed to install their program using pip install -e instead of just pip install?
 
Well I'm not an expert, but... I don't see any reason for that
I can count the number of times I've used a virtualenv on, like, 3 fingers
...or 2 fingers if I count in binary
 
@Aran-Fey pipx has the -eoption.
Based on this stackoverflow answer I think that the -e option means that any changes made to the upstream code hosted on github will automatically be reflected in the program or project you installed using pip.
A bit like automatic updates to a python program installed using pip or pipx.
 
6:10 PM
that would be really creepy
You would definitely have to pull changes yourself.
 
6:36 PM
After installing a python program using pipx should the setup.py file still remain in the directory?
 
well, there's no reason to remove it
 
@Aran-Fey I'm asking because apparently after installing the python program I linked I should be seeing seeing an executable .py file that I can run using Python3. However nothing change in the directory I cloned.
 
@MyWrathAcademia executables created during installation should end up in $PATH, not the program repository.
 
Infact I can't run that program.
 
"can't run" as in the executable isn't found, or as in it throws an error, or as in it doesn't seem to do anything?
 
6:45 PM
After installing with pipx I ran pipx list and I got the following:
venvs are in /Users/username/.local/pipx/venvs
apps are exposed on your $PATH at /Users/username/.local/bin
   package oct-converter 0.1, Python 3.8.3
    - f2py
    - f2py3
    - f2py3.8
    - imageio_download_bin
    - imageio_remove_bin
    - natsort
But my path does not contain any file that has a name like oct-converter
 
What's inside /Users/username/.local/bin?
 
@MisterMiyagi When I type oct-converter on the command line I get:
zsh: command not found: oct-converter
 
Looking at the module's readme, I actually don't see any indication that such a console script should exist
 
@Aran-Fey % ls /Users/username/.local/bin
f2py			f2py3			f2py3.8			imageio_download_bin	imageio_remove_bin	natsort
 
From what I can tell, you're supposed to import it, not run it from the command line.
 
6:52 PM
@Aran-Fey pip x did warn me `If you are attempting to install a library, pipx should not be used. Consider using pip or a similar tool instead.``
 
What makes you think oct-converter is an executable package?
 
@Aran-Fey I'm supposed to get a file like convert.py which I can run using python3 like python3 convert.py
 
Where does it say that?
 
@MisterMiyagi the author of the package tells me I can run it from the command line.
@Aran-Fey the author.
 
Ok, well, reality seems to disagree
 
6:56 PM
I don't know whether it's pipx that's preventing the expected results.
 
@MyWrathAcademia unless this was email correspondence, it seems to me that it would be worth posting a link
 
There's nothing in the setup.py that would generate a script like that.
 
7:13 PM
note that python3 convert.py doesn't look like an installed script called convert, so it checks out
Odds are it isn't even a package. It's just a single script perhaps.
OK, no, I looked at the repo
@MyWrathAcademia you have to ask whomever told you that what they really meant
 
7:26 PM
@AndrasDeak Okay.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:49 PM
I'm having trouble getting virtualenv and virtualenvwrapper to work on MacOS.
 
I'd expect virtualenv to work out of the box. Or these days venv but I have no idea about the differences between the two
 
When I run % source .local/bin/virtualenv I get the error:
.local/bin/virtualenv:3: command not found: import
.local/bin/virtualenv:4: command not found: import
from: can't read /var/mail/virtualenv.__main__
.local/bin/virtualenv: parse error near `)'
 
I'd expect .../bin/activate to be sourced
I think that was also how virtualenv worked because I don't remember learning anything new when I switched to venv
 
@AndrasDeak the culprit is:
#!/Users/user/.local/pipx/venvs/virtualenv/bin/python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
import re
import sys
from virtualenv.__main__ import run_with_catch
if __name__ == '__main__':
    sys.argv[0] = re.sub(r'(-script\.pyw|\.exe)?$', '', sys.argv[0])
    sys.exit(run_with_catch())
.local/bin/virtualenv (END)
 
@MyWrathAcademia that looks like virtualenv is a python script, so your shell can't parse it (obviously)
 
8:55 PM
I think? I have zshell.
 
Where did you get source .local/bin/virtualenv from?
either the source or the virtualenv is wrong there
 
@AndrasDeak source .local/bin/virtualenv is where pipx installed virtualenv.
 
@MyWrathAcademia that doesn't seem like an answer to my question
it doesn't seem like an answer to anything, to be honest
 
Remember, hours of trial and error can save you minutes of reading the doc
13
 
@AndrasDeak I got it from this instruction: virtualenvwrapper.readthedocs.io/en/latest
 
8:58 PM
@MyWrathAcademia now we're getting somewhere
@MyWrathAcademia I don't see source .../bin/virtualenv anywhere on that page
 
@MyWrathAcademia Is there a reason why you don't just use the builtin venv?
 
Okay, in this case the doc is actually so bad that minutes is very optimistic
 
after skimming these pages it seems to me that you're not supposed to mess with those virtualenvs manually, only through virtualenvwrapper
 
@MisterMiyagi I don't know much about the python ecosystem, or the language for that matter. I saw an oldish stackoverflow answer praising virtualenv and virtualenvwrapper, so I went with them both.
I spotted my mistake thanks to you all. It should be source .local/bin/virtualenvwrapper.sh but now I'm getting the error:
/Users/username/.local/pipx/shared/bin/python3: Error while finding module specification for 'virtualenvwrapper.hook_loader' (ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'virtualenvwrapper')
virtualenvwrapper.sh: There was a problem running the initialization hooks.

If Python could not import the module virtualenvwrapper.hook_loader,
check that virtualenvwrapper has been installed for
VIRTUALENVWRAPPER_PYTHON=/Users/username/.local/pipx/shared/bin/python3 and that PATH is
set properly.
@MisterMiyagi is it straight forward to use the built-in venv from the commandline?
 
This module seems like more trouble than it's worth
 
9:08 PM
please just use venv, unless you have a serious use-case that is worth hours of debugging.
 
@MyWrathAcademia Why did "Hero" turn into "Wrath"?
 
done
 
@MisterMiyagi thanks for the suggestion. I did some digging and reading this post helped me make up my mind. I'm not wasting any more time on this "wrapper".
@cs95 Copyright issues.
 
Was venv package always builtin? I recall needing to pip install it for some python, not sure if it was 2 or 3.4...
 
9:26 PM
Speaking of wrappers, I've had a really hard time getting wrappers like OpenCVSharp, emguCV etc. to work, in the end I had to abandon a fruitless effort.
What's with open source projects being extremely difficult to get working?
It's hit or miss whether one actually runs on your system. It's like they want you to go through hell just to use their product. May be that's the price you pay for free
If there's anything I could change about opensource, above all else, that would be it.
 
I wanted to make a pun on DJ snake being my favorite python rapper, but I realise he doesn't rap
 
46 secs ago, by cs95
I wanted to make a pun on DJ snake being my favorite python rapper, but I realise he doesn't rap
Did you make up that name?
 
huh, no. He exists. He's just... not a rapper
 
Wow, I'm hearing of him for the first time.
I don't even want to know how he came up with that name.
 
@cs95 "New in version 3.3.; Changed in version 3.5: The use of venv is now recommended for creating virtual environments."
 
9:32 PM
@cs95 He's 34, they say rap is a young man's game. He must be an exception.
 
How does every wrapper come up with their name? "The first letter of your first name and the last thing you ate for lunch"
@AndrasDeak Err, yeah should've just done that, thanks
 
@MyWrathAcademia Eminem is 48 years old
 
^
 
@AndrasDeak Yes, I forgot about him but Eminem has not released a song in years?
Or may be I need to catch up.
 
I wouldn't know
 
9:34 PM
He released an album this year
He somehow manages to stay relevant, good for him
 
@MyWrathAcademia the point of wrappers is that you already have the wrapped library installed. The difficulty is usually with installing the wrapped library. More often than not you end up better if you build the dependency from source in some custom directory.
 
I think Kanye's around that age too, but if you ask him he'll probably say he doesn't age :)
 
I tend to not trust people who have cults following them
 
@cs95 Wow, I guess it flew under the radar due to the world being turned upside down.
@cs95 hmm. That would include almost every famous person. Einstein, Tesla, Musk, Muhammad Ali etc.
 
Mhm, in this particular case the guy was trying to recruit people to join
 
9:38 PM
ugh, this has taken a nose dive fast
 
Has it? I think it's fine, the discussion isn't destructive at least
Okay, feel free to clear the chat
 
let's try to figure out instead how virtualenv relates to venv
 
a boring but sound suggestion, let's do it
 
@AndrasDeak I see thanks for explaining. I see that a wrapper just tries to disguise a library, or extend it, or both.
 
@MyWrathAcademia anything that calls itself a wrapper doesn't "disguise" which typically has connotations of trying to hide something in an often malicious way
it's exactly about providing additional functionality or convenient access to an underlying library
how much functionality the wrapper adds determines how thin it is
 
9:42 PM
I want to say the concept is very similar in name to "decorators"
if that helps
 
so this suggests that virtualenv is not stdib whereas venv is, yet venv only started to be the recommended way after 3.5
I started with 3.5 I think, so it's surprising that I ever used virtualenv
 
@AndrasDeak I used the word "disguise" because those C# wrappers for OpenCV don't extend it in any way, instead they just trick C# (by wrapping around it, or disguising it) into accepting a library written in C++ so that you can use it in C#.
I'm just being imaginative :)
 
That's still a wrapper, it exposes the API of the underlying function
 
@AndrasDeak venv is the recommended environment isolation solution for Python, that's neat.
@AndrasDeak I had my comments on a stackoverflow question removed. How do I get them to reinstate it?
 
@MyWrathAcademia you don't
They were either very rude in which case a few flags deleted it automatically, or they were manually deleted by a moderator after someone flagged them. In either case reposting is usually not a good idea, unless they were deleted by mistake and it's really really important to have some of that information there.
(it's almost never the latter case)
 
9:59 PM
@AndrasDeak I see. I should clarify a whole comment thread was removed and sent to chat (wasn't because of rudeness).
It wasn't just my comment, there were around 20 comments. The comments were very important to getting an answer.
The last time my comments got moved to chat they disappeared. It's a bit odd that a moderator can just decide on a whim to expunge very useful information by sending it to the graveyard.
 
@MyWrathAcademia if it was sent to chat it wasn't deleted. It's right there in chat.
 
At least if you move comments don't move them to the trash.
 
You don't even need a mod to move a long comment thread to chat. Chat is designed for long discussions. Comments aren't. Unlike comments, messages stick around in chat.
@MyWrathAcademia if the comments were important then the question should be edited to contain all relevant information.
if the question contains all relevant information the comment thread is obsolete
 
@AndrasDeak Okay, that helps. But how come my comments from last year on a stackoverflow question vanished after getting moved to chat?
 
in every case being offended that your comments were moved to chat or deleted is not the right solution
@MyWrathAcademia Vanished as in moved to chat, right?
I just told you that they aren't normally gone so you should really make yourself clear.
 
10:05 PM
@AndrasDeak I'm not offended they were moved to chat. I'm just not satisfied knowing that the same thing that happened the last time important comments were moved will happen again.
 
Don't be attached to comments, they are explicitly specified to be ephemeral.
getting moved to chat is the less invasive outcome that can happen to comments
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah it got moved to it's own chatroom and after a couple of weeks that chat room disappeared.
Oh well, I have to know to avoid this.
 
If it's important information, move it into an answer.
 
@MyWrathAcademia it couldn't have disappeared
Do you have a link to the question and to the chatroom?
 
@AndrasDeak It was a Java question about streams I think. Someone basically answered my question in the comments (with links and everything), and then his comments (along with mine) got moved to chat.
@cs95 Yeah I think this is what I'll do next time comments on a question I post get too many.
 
10:10 PM
Someone should have posted an answer then, or the question deleted. I thought it wasn't your question.
 
@AndrasDeak It was my question
 
If you're answering clarifications on your question, move those clarifications as an edit into the question so future readers understand the context even if the comments are deleted. And same with answers.
 
ah, you need some rep to see deleted chatrooms, I see
 
@AndrasDeak Yes, thats his name "slaw". He gave a great answer.
 
@MyWrathAcademia so you can see that deleted chatroom...?
 
10:14 PM
@AndrasDeak No, I see star trek characters.
@AndrasDeak Do you see the chatroom?
 
@MyWrathAcademia yes
 
@cs95 I'll keep this in mind next time. Actually I'll do this starting with this question that had its comments moved to chat. Ofcourse I should also give credit where credit is due.
@AndrasDeak :0 I cannot believe it!
Thanks. How did you see it?
 
I have enough rep. I'm trying to figure out how much you need to see it. Maybe 10k...
 
@AndrasDeak Cmon.
Are we in a game?
 
The philosophy on SO is that things get soft deleted, and high-rep users are trusted to see deleted things.
I never understood the difference between frozen and deleted chatrooms, so there's a high chance that you need a lot less to see deleted chatrooms
 
10:22 PM
@AndrasDeak Interesting where do you find this kind of information from, is it the meta section of the site?
 
Here's a relevant feature-request on MSE meta.stackexchange.com/questions/325008/…
@MyWrathAcademia most of these can usually be found at stackoverflow.com/help/privileges but chat is an orphan so yeah, most of the mechanics is explained on meta. I'm struggling to find a description of this facet.
 
@AndrasDeak Wow that's exactly was was on my mind this whole time. I'm glad someone else with more clout got people talking about this.
 
terdon's a moderator on the network
 
@AndrasDeak Yeah I'm familiar with him from unix stackexchange, generally very helpful.
 
10:28 PM
@AndrasDeak So 99% of users can't see deleted rooms. I have to get my rep up.
 
Yes, just like posts on main.
Things get deleted for a reason, and most people are it was deemed distracting and a source of conflict for most users to see deleted content. High-rep users can be usually trusted to handle the responsibility, and this allows additional scrutiny.
 
There are some users I've seen with unimaginable rep, like (the encyclopaedic) giles on unix stackexchange, and of course JonSkeet.
 
I believe that's Gilles with two ells
 
I've noticed these users have been long time members of stackexchange. Is it possible that early algorithms on stack exchange websites were easier to accumulate rep?
 
Not algorithms. If there's no content it's a lot easier to find good questions to answer, and there's a lot more time for votes to accumulate.
 
10:31 PM
@AndrasDeak Thanks, I should know this because I see his name on every good post/comment there.
 
and of course more time means more posts
 
@AndrasDeak I see, that makes perfect sense.
The low hanging fruit.
 
Not really, there's also a lot of elaborate and excellent Q&A from the old times. They just have a lot more votes. But yes, also low hanging fruit was on-topic and got a lot of votes over the years.
 
They're still low hanging fruit, if version changes bring new improvements that are relevant to those old posts
 
@AndrasDeak That's right.
@cs95 Yes, agreed.
Thanks Andras Deak, I learned more about stackexchange in an evening than I did since becoming a member (and I found something I thought I lost). And @cs95 one day may be you'll fill me in on that whole "trying to get people to join" thing. In an Austrian farmer's accent: I'll be back
 
10:47 PM
@MyWrathAcademia Sure thing. If you need any of the links in that screenshot, let me know.
 

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