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12:03 AM
What does the first sentence of this mean when comparing NaNs: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN#Comparison_with_NaN?
I don't understand the italicised unorderdered
 
I don't get it either. Gotta love wikipedia
 
I mostly want to write it off as a bad edit but presumably someone was at pains to add it
 
1:10 AM
Unordered means that NaN comparisons are not a partial order: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set
In other words, they are non-transitive.
well, not just that.
Also even beyond NaNs, floating point numbers aren't even associative w.r.t. addition. Floating point numbers are just weird.
 
 
1 hour later…
wim
2:20 AM
@AndrasDeak I'm surprised on the latter, there were several stronger candidates. He's only a member for 2-ish years, and can be kinda snide sometimes
Thought it would be Caswell
 
 
3 hours later…
5:08 AM
@wim His rep, plus the fact that this was his second time running probably helped
 
 
2 hours later…
7:01 AM
hi there
I have conda and activate a new envirenment with python3.7
when I am in that env. is pip install and conda install doing the same?
ImportError: No module named matplotlib
jupyter notebook says that after I installed matplotlib with conda install matplotlib
 
 
1 hour later…
8:17 AM
trying to set up a server (websocket, but shouldn't matter) with ssl. I have a bunch of files, but I'm not sure how to use them in a meaningful way
    sslctx = ssl.create_default_context()
    sslctx.load_cert_chain(chain_pem, keyfile=key_pem)
attempting somewhat random things so far has resulted in this same error:
Traceback (most recent call last):                                                                                     │
  File "/src/simple-server.py", line 322, in <module>                                                                  │
    sslctx.load_cert_chain(chain_pem, keyfile=key_pem)                                                                 │
ssl.SSLError: [SSL] PEM lib (_ssl.c:3837)
which I'm assuming refers to github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.7/Modules/_ssl.c#L3837 (python --version is 3.7.2)
the file formats I have are .ca-bundle, .p7b and .crt
I tried converting p7b to pem with the openssl command, and using that as the key_pem, and using the crt as the chain and a few similar things, but I think I'm grasping at the wind
oh, looks like the p7b should be the chain. I don't know if python handles p7b files or if they need modification
all of these tiny things. I'll get through it, but it would be nice if someone already had experience with this
well, except using the p7b as chain makes _ssl.c fail earlier: github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.7/Modules/_ssl.c#L3816
but converting the p7b to pem brings me back to 3837
maybe none of these files are private keys
 
8:35 AM
@roganjosh I read it as "x < nan and nan < x won't be complements". With proper ordered numbers either a<b or b<a holds.
 
I give up on this thread... and I'm sure I'll see it on the HNQ list later today
If I'd known there'd be 6 wrong/bad answers, I'd have FGITW that thing
 
Ugh
 
How to make python replace the string in my clipboard with something else listening on ctrl+c using pyperclip?
I've already made sth up but it needs me to manually hit enter to replace the clipboard string
 
pyperclip can't "listen on ctrl+c", you'll need another module for that
all you can do with pyperclip is poll the clipboard and watch for changes
 
user379888
Looking to understand 'factory' pattern better. It teaches to make the parent class an interface and move implementation to child classes?
 
9:28 AM
Having spent 10 seconds glancing at the relevant wikipedia article, I don't think that's correct
It sounds like the factory pattern can be summed up as "instead of using a constructor to create an object, you call a function that returns an object"
Or, in other words, the factory pattern is completely pointless in python (because classes and functions are both callables anyway, so there's no difference)
Though, maybe the correct interpretation of the factory pattern is more like "don't hard-code a specific class; allow other people to decide what class you should use" - for example by taking a factory as an argument, or storing a factory in a class attribute that child classes can override
Hmmm, I think I may have bullied jsbueno a bit too much... I pointed out a bunch of mistakes in one of his answers, and he never finished fixing it... poor chap
 
They'll survive. Pointing out technical mistakes is fine. It's the tone that matters.
 
Well I don't think I was rude about it or anything, but posting "your code is still broken" 3 times in a row may come across as a little... aggressive, or something
 
Meh
I wouldn't lose sleep over it. They could have just fixed their code :P
 
9:52 AM
@AndrasDeak gone
 
Thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
12:00 PM
don't really see a need to delete those tbh
 
The former is a throw-away iteration of a general problem. Typical "I want to know 5233+2 but the dupe is 2+2". Nobody will ever need that incarnation. The latter says the same thing as the accepted answer on a clearly worded dupe with 33 linked questions. I don't think we need yet another. But anyway, there's no pressure to vote.
 
12:24 PM
@Aran-Fey I wrote one or two answers for dataclasses using factories, it makes sense for them because __init__ is autogenerated. So if you want to do something with input arguments you need a function to do it for you that then calls init in return.
 
12:36 PM
Sorry, I don't follow. Do you have an example, maybe?
 
 
1 hour later…
1:53 PM
\o cbg
 
cbg
 
Hmm. I've got me a bunch of experiments to run. Marrow Schema seems mostly obsoleted by data classes, dict key ordering, attribute name assignment announcement, announcement of subclassing, … with a few curious questions left hanging. E.g. can you positionally instantiate a DC? When subclassing and redefining a named attribute, does it preserve the original order for the purposes of that positional instantiation and/or serialization? :3
:puts a "press" card in her hat and starts asking the Tough Questions™:
 
2:20 PM
how much traffic can Django handle what should dir structure for for high volume traffic?
what should be best architecture for high volume websites
 
run in sentences they are yoda thinks
 
2:34 PM
@SantoshkumarManda Remove everything until you can't remove any more and still have a functioning product. That's my general approach to building for scale.
A classic story I use is being hired and moving to Montréal, the first project I was put on had begun knolling tools for evaluation. The team at that point had decided upon: Postgresql (persistent general data storage), Redis (task data), Membase (cache), RabbitMQ (persistence), ZeroMQ (performance), … and a week after I joined all of it had been replaced by MongoDB, filling every one of those roles. (Benchmarked and stress tested to death by our team's Belorussian named Igor; found acceptable.)
The distributed RPC (formerly a combination of Redis for task data, and ZeroMQ for task notifications) was a notable example we subsequently gave presentations on. With ~1h of work, we ended up serving 1.9 million DRPC print calls per second on a single node, using a small number of producers and consumers. (Vs. a few tens of thousands via Celery using Redis+ZeroMQ.)
:fin: ;^P
 
m8_
3:09 PM
Hey all, was hoping someone could help me understand a bit of code pd.crosstab(list.ID, list.TestName).reindex(df.ID).replace({0:''})...the last part
replace({0:''}, is this removing the second column in df?
 
no you are passing a dict to replace to indicate that 0 should be replaced with ' '
 
m8_
oh gotcha, that makes since
thanks
 
no problem
 
Does anyone know a trained model using programming languages (.net, c, java) and related tools (oracle, eclipse) as source? Already tried Spacy but no luck with pre trained models.
 
@Aran-Fey Sry, had to run to a meeting. Work getting in the way of my chatroom correspondence =/
 
3:16 PM
doesn't that defeat the point of having data classes in the first place? looks more like a use case for SimpleNamespace
 
@anvd First thing that comes to mind: github.com/DanielJDufour/language-detector — this is for natural languages, but could entirely be adapted (or may already be a variant) for programming language determination. Not entirely sure what problem you're trying to solve from your question, though.
 
@MisterMiyagi Might very well be, it's not something i would do in my code. But OP had a question, and there is a concrete answer.
 
@anvd Ah, here's another for natural language, taking a different (character set + trigram identification) approach: github.com/kent37/guess-language
 
Oh, you're referring to the default_factory thing, got it
 
@amcgregor I need to extract from a piece of text what are the programming languages and tools announced (job board). Seems suitable to Named-entity recognition.
 
3:23 PM
@Arne That is true indeed. Sometimes, bad questions make it difficult to appreciate good answers.
 
IndexError: unsupported iterator index
*** Reference count error detected:
an attempt was made to deallocate 7 (l) ***
that's a first
 
numpy?
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) That's quite the error you've got yourself, there.
 
yup, I managed to cook up a format string that somehow broke python
trying to repro in an MCVE
this is the first time I've accidentally deallocated a cached object
 
I've had complete modules go AWOL (get deallocated; with all of the glory of sudden missing global scopes) on me, but never pre-allocated integers, if I'm reading that correctly. Impressive.
 
3:32 PM
I've deallocated None in the past, just for fun. Python wasn't impressed.
 
hahaha
tech people and their idea of "fun" smh
 
hmmm
Sep 20 '18 at 22:49, by Andras Deak
*** Reference count error detected:
an attempt was made to deallocate 7 (l) ***
 
My pointer on how to "securely erase strings in Python, yes, even though it's impossible, and you should never, ever do this" is incidentally my most controversial answer on SO. Everyone: "This is impossible." Me: "Hold my beer… yup, this was a bad idea, I regret everything."
 
what did you do, denvercoder?!
I have absolutely no memory of that event
 
3:35 PM
cbg
ohoho
I thought I wasn't able to repro, I quit my REPL and see 6 copies of the reference count error
 
I tried to del 7. The REPL laughed at me. #CanNotReproduce ;^P
 
>>> import numpy as np
>>> ind = 0
>>> print('{arr.flat[ind]}'.format(arr=np.random.rand(3)))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: unsupported iterator index
>>>
*** Reference count error detected:
an attempt was made to deallocate 7 (l) ***
(error on exit)
 
@amcgregor do you want your beer back or can I keep it?
 
she must have given up on that beer the moment she handed it to an Austrian
 
@AndrasDeak Hmm. Given there is no ind= being passed in, I'd assume that'd really be equivalent to: arr.flat["ind"]
 
3:39 PM
@amcgregor correct, same issue
 
@Aran-Fey You can keep it. I've got more. :attempts to hide the fact her desk is held up by kegs:
 
>>> import numpy as np
>>> np.random.rand(3).flat["ind"]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
IndexError: unsupported iterator index
>>>
*** Reference count error detected:
an attempt was made to deallocate 7 (l) ***
 
:insert horrified Japanese emoticon here:
 
I'm starting to think I should raise an issue
let me check on numpy master and I'll do that
 
Who needs 7 anyway?
 
3:46 PM
hehe
 
there's infinitely more numbers where it came from
Does that only show up after you quit the REPL session?
 
Would anyone be able to point me to in a direction to be able to read a json structure and get all the key/value pairs that are present? For example here is something I might look at. I would need to get payload/seller_amounts/secondary_amount -> 0.00 as an example. Looking around and I am not seeing anyway to dynamically read through a json string with unknown key/value pairs

{
"created_at": "2019-01-19T03:11:36.039854-06:00",,
"payload": {
"sell_amounts": {
"secondary_amount": 0.00,
"seller_amount": 0.00,
 
@Code-Apprentice yup
 
@JoeW Sorry can't get the code formating to work
 
@JoeW start with json.load() or json.loads() depending on where the JSON comes from
 
3:49 PM
@JoeW docs.python.org/3.7/library/json.html#json.loads — however I can't help but notice you're storing financial data in there as floating point numbers. This is potentially subtly, and occasionally grossly incorrect. (Have an invoice with 10 line items each for 0.10, the total of the invoice will be 0.99(repeating), not 1.0.) General recommendation is either to transmit pennies (no decimals) or financial values as strings.
 
@JoeW Also note that you cannot mix text with formatted code in a single chat message
 
@amcgregor I don't have control over the format and in this case no calculations will be done on any of the values. Not to mention it will be dealing with values of different precision so it can't be assumed that it will be pennies or 2 decimal points
 
… I did not observe currency or locale information associated with that data. From a REST perspective, that fragment of JSON requires what you just described as "secret knowledge" to understand and process the data. :/
 
The joys of working with values that can have between 0 and 3 points of accuracy
 
Alice's Law #132: Strings: the universal arbitrary precision math format.
Heh, also, whenever I see 0.00 in JSON, that tells me someone's either writing that by hand, or they're generating it using some form of string template w/ formatted variable expansion rather than by using a serialization function. Floats don't really have the concept of fixed precision like that, so 0.00 is pointless vs. just writing 0. (All numbers in JSON are floats. ;)
 
4:01 PM
sorry for linking a recent question but i guess i should mention it, in light of the LPTHW discussion we had recently.
this Q should be closed quickly.
 
… "magically make me an expert plz." Wat.
 
Want to check if I am understanding this correctly. If I use json.loads on my json object I can then do something along the lines of the accepted answer in this question to get what I want? stackoverflow.com/questions/6340351/…
 
json.load will turn your string into a dict/list, so then you can do dict/list stuff with it, yes
 
Thanks, still picking up python and unsure of a few concepts.
 
m8_
4:29 PM
Hola! Can I add an OR to the following statement: df2 = df1.loc[df1['col1'] == 'No']
I've tried a couple things but getting some odd errors
so OR equals 'Other'
 
@m8_ |
 
m8_
Sorry, I mean the exact syntax
 
(df1['col1'] == 'No') | (df1['col1'] == 'Other')
Maybe np.isin could work? Not sure, strings are weird.
 
in pandas, you use & for and and | for or. if that's what you're asking
and ~ for not. iirc
 
and you need parantheses, otherwise precedence implies df1['col1'] == ('No' | df1['col1']) == 'Other'
 
m8_
4:31 PM
It's weird, I tried that @AndrasDeak, but it gives TypeError: cannot compare a dtyped [object] array with a scalar of type [bool]
OH!
That worked. dang parantheses!
thanks @AndrasDeak
 
no problem
 
5:26 PM
I have my own custom built package and I put it inside of the site-packages folder in my virtualenv. But whenever I try to import it Python cant find it. If I do pip list I see that the package is there. What could cause this issue?
 
_"put it inside of the `site-packages` folder"_

Say what now? Did you pip install it, or just drop whatever file you have inside that internally managed directory?
 
The package is pre built and I manually dropped it in there
If I do pip install mycustompackage it says requirement already satisfied
 
Bin
How to stop a loop when a button is clicked in PyQt5
 
why is there a loop running in the background anyway?
you should be scheduling callbacks in the GUI mainloop, not running a loop (in a thread, I'm guessing?)
 
@KevinHernandez Dropping things into site-packages is AFIK essentially deprecated, similar to egg bundling. Dropping a file in wouldn't update any .pth files (if needed), and wouldn't expand the package out if it involves namespaces, as another concern. E.g. if you remove the file from site-packages (roll back the custom work), then attempt to pip install it, how about then?
 
5:39 PM
Hi guys, I'm trying to create a web crawler that extracts links from a website but I encountered a problem or actually a question, What do you think do I have to do about logging those links which I have checked?
 
I fixed it. The package had a (1) in it removing it worked
 
@X4748 I mean the simplest thing to do is just write them to a text file. If you want to get slightly more sophisticated you can plop them into a JSON file or you can push them into a SQLite database.
 
@Bin anyway, the button should set a variable that aborts the loop
 
@Aran-Fey Specifically, if I recall my concurrent programming, a semaphore should be used for this type of signalling?
 
hard to say w/o context, but I think probably not
off topic: I hate typing with qwertz
since there's a loop that needs to be stopped, I think they probably just want to poll a variable, honestly
a semaphore would let you block until the button is pressed
 
5:55 PM
Right, I keep forgetting about the GIL-enforced thread safety for most variable access.
 
when I learned Colemak I didn't think I'd forget how to type with qwertz, but look at me now, typing like a snail
 
@Aran-Fey I switch often enough between Colemak and QWERTY for gaming that (thankfully) one or the other hasn't atrophied too noticeably.
 
:confused face: why use qwerty for gaming?
 
Primary reason: WASD. (I'm too lazy to re-bind geometric key patterns to fix them. ;)
 
6:04 PM
I always customize my keybinds anyway, so no need for qwertz
ESDF, baby
 
On my ErgoDox, QWERTY toggle is the lower right-most key. Entire overlay just for gaming. (Also re-arranges modifier keys to make thumb-space roll-off to thumb-control for jump→crouch ease.) Pumping my code through a heat map and distance calculator was eye-opening, though.
My code turns out to be almost perfect for Colemak.
(Noting that tab is actually a thumb key on the Dox, not where it thinks it is.)
 
huh, nice setup
 
Hi all
Anyone have a few seconds to check out this issue im having ?
im on my 5th week learning python
0
Q: Python regression and looping through features/comparing rsquared values

ron wagnerI have two goals. I want to 1. Loop through values 1-10 for features and then compare the adjusted r^2 values. I know how to do it for just 1 fixed feature as displayed in my code below. I've tried to loop in "selector = RFE(regr, n_features_to_select, step=1) but I think I am missing a pivotal ...

 
kyl
6:19 PM
hi! anyone here?
I want to scrap web page with python.
but I'm going to do different code for normal website(server side rendered) and js rendered site(like react, angular vue)
Is there any way to check if the url is js rendered page or not
 
perhaps scan all js import "src" statements or whatnot
 
kyl
Could you tell me little more details?
I think, Any site will not use cdn to use angular or react.
 
@kyl Effectively, no. The "easiest test" is to see if expected content is present or not. If it's not, it's JS rendered. I often need to implement data import processes at work which boil down to either scraping (server-side generated), Python literal_eval of JS constants extracted from inline code, or in entirely JS apps, web inspector investigation of XHRs it issues to actually grab data, then emulation of those.
 
kyl
@amcgregor yes but my purpose is not the exact data from the page
I want to get the html source code itself.
 
@kyl The answer does not change. Look for something expected, if not found, it is probably JS generated.
 
kyl
6:26 PM
so I can't check if specific element( with id or class) is present or not
@amcgregor I'm not looking for something :(
I need the entire html source code that rendered
 
I'm not sure why you think my answer is dependent on specifically extracting values; regardless of taking the whole page content or not, there must be some indication within when evaluated with or without JS. Some differentiation. Simple test: open the page in a browser tab, then a second browser tab, disable js, and refresh the second tab. Compare in the inspector.
 
kyl
to get html source code rendered in frontend. I want to do following.
1. check if url is using ajax to make DOM
2. if is_ajax_rendered:
do_something_for()
else:
# simply send get request and will get response
@amcgregor This is not for any specific page sir
any url as input
 
1. You can't.
2. Not a condition you can easily extract, as there is no indication in the response (headers) as to the methodology of the page. Nothing outright tells you this.
3. Because nothing outright tells you the answer, you must _infer_ it from some difference in the page content between no-JS and with-JS viewing. Most easily seen in a browser inspector.
4. Alternatively, and this is worst-case, use something like PhantomJS (headless browser w/ JS) and just always extract the live DOM after that is processed, completely ignoring the distinction between JS and server-side rendered a
 
kyl
my idea is ..
if page is js rendered page, will get source by selenium headless (similar to phantomJS)
if not, will get souce simply by requests.get
I don't want to use headless browser for server side render page
 
@ronwagner hey, I don't have any experience with scikit-learn so I can't help, BUT the reason why I suggested changing a tag to it in the comments, just so you know, is that people "follow" tags that they're interested in to find questions to answer, so that's a big reason why tags are important.
 
6:36 PM
I'll clarify the "you can't" there a bit: there are potentially thousands of ways for JS to alter the DOM. document.write is easy to catch, but innerHTML manipulation gets harder. All the way from bulk HTML modification like that, to modification of specific attributes or alterations to inline styles and classList.
 
kyl
@amcgregor Thanks for clarifying me about this.
 
Without executing JS (a la a headless browser), you will never be able to identify if JS has/would made changes, e.g. by comparison to the original source as downloaded.
 
kyl
I appreciate for your help
 
var target = document.getElementById("main"),
    classes = target.classList;

classes.add('visible');
^ Searching the code for "code that modifies HTML attributes" would fail on this, if it's looking for calls to classList methods, a la ….classList.add. Because this isn't calling classList.add, this is calling .add on some variable.
(The rabbit hole only gets deeper, but this type of local-scoping is something JS uglifiers do utilize.)
 
kyl
That make sense for me.
 
wim
7:06 PM
anyone know a docker image for a "narrow" 2.7 build? want to test my solution for Python unicode indexing shows different character before posting an answer
 
Is there something in python such as
def log(*args):
    print(*args, flush=True)
or this:
 
@AfonsoMatos Have you tried that?
 
def log(*args, **kwargs):
    print(*args, **kwargs, flush=True)
yes, works
 
Well, there you go.
 
wim
most people log to stderr which should be unbuffered
well, maybe not most people, but most people using stdlib logging anyway
 
7:09 PM
I would strongly hope people log using the logging module, not printing directly to anything.
 
wim
why?
 
@AlexanderReynolds Thank you
 
Because my apps log to MongoDB capped collection, not silly file IO.
Using the logging module.
 
wim
there are much better third party logging libraries than stdlib logging
in fact structlog uses a PrintLogger factory by default, which prints to stdout
 
i love python omfg
just needed to write some code to plot graphics for a c++ solution for my college project
to check efficiency
 
7:11 PM
@wim Which integrate capture from all of the libraries already using stdlib logging? Or can emit to stdlib logging? Yo dawg, I heard you like logging so I put a logger in your logger so you can log that you're logging and truly log everything.
 
One more question, How can I convert a dictinoary like this {key:value,key1:val1} to two strings like 'key,key1' and 'val,val1'
 
wim
Which integrate capture from all of the libraries already using stdlib logging? (yes, by configuring structlog with a stdlib prechain) Or can emit to stdlib logging? (yes, by configuring structlog with a stdlib logger factory instead of the default PrintLogger)
 
list(map(lambda x: str(x)+","+str(dic[x]), dic))
 
7:14 PM
Thus I just use stdlib logging.
 
wim
shrugs each to your own
logging is a huge deal at WimCorp so stdlib logging doesn't cut it for me
 
@wim "WimCorp" lol
 
@wim That, too. (Because of course.)
 
@AfonsoMatos Works perfecly, Thanks
 
please don't use map with a lambda
[f'{key},{value}' for key, value in dct.items()]
or using .format() if you aren't on a python version supporting f-strings
if both key and value are known to be strings, you could also do [','.join(x) for x in dct.items()]
 
7:22 PM
@ThiefMaster reasons being functional programming is less Pythonic than comprehensions whenever possible, also faster to use comprehensions generally. Any other particular reasons why not?
 
readability, mostly
 
map+lambda adds function call overhead to every iteration
 
@ThiefMaster is that the particular reason why it's faster? or is there more to it?
 
Extra benefit of comprehensions, generator comprehensions. Lazily evaluated results, lower memory pressure, arbitrarily complex chaining without worry. ;)
 
also, str(x)+y+str(z) is just super ugly :)
 
7:23 PM
@ThiefMaster well yes that is certainly true :)
 
would have to be benchmarked, for most small cases the performance difference won't matter
 
@ThiefMaster of course, as with most things in programming outside of HPC/scientific computing/numerical work.
Anyways just thought it would be good to explicate the reasons for whoever wanted to use the functional approach.
 
@ThiefMaster Small cases add up, esp. when the difference is stark and there might be tight loops involved.
(I used these timings to inform the habits I developed. For example, I preferentially use partition over split for every case of single-split, which is the vast majority in my code.)
(Similarly: prefix/suffix checks by array slicing, not startswith/endswith.)
 
D:
 
Heh. In my HTTP/1.1 server, these specific optimizations made the difference between 4.5K r/sec, and 8K r/sec. Repeated tight loop processing of headers really added up.
 
wim
7:29 PM
@amcgregor if you avoided stdlib name collisions then you wouldn't have to do garbage like this
 
@wim Apologies for giving the impression that is a production library. It is not, it's an experiment in alternate logging syntaxes. You also completely misunderstand the reason for that structure.
I prefer not to litter module namespaces with references to imported modules used only once.
 
wim
that's what using __all__ is for.
also, you're doing namespace packaging wrong
 
That accounts for imported-indirectly problems, does nothing to clean up attribute tab completion in my REPL.
@wim Really, close that repository if you think this is modern or "real". Pick any other package (marrow.package, marrow.schema, …).
I'm in-progress eliminating Python 2 support and switching to modern namespacing.
@wim Right-o.
 
wim
it's becoming too much, like spam, the amount of times you're linking in the chat to one of your personal projects!
 
What is the difference of simulated annealing and described in webcache.googleusercontent.com/… and random search as in raksy.dyndns.org/sqpack2.py when one want's to make a program to create crosswords?
 
7:58 PM
@JaakkoSeppälä There is no acceptance profile that I can see, sqpack2.py looks greedy
The purpose of simulated annealing is to give some criteria upon which to accept worse solutions that you currently have, in order to avoid local minima
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
@Rick I see you've taken the salad language to heart. Cabbage, Rick!
 
@AlexanderReynolds it puts a little bit of happiness in my day
 
8:06 PM
@roganjosh I see. I was wonderin whether it would be better idea to use SA or RS for the problem in stackoverflow.com/questions/44983929/…
 
Well I don't use/know RS (Rough Set?) but I imagine it could be solved fine with SA
The main thing I've learned from solving combinatorial problems on a commercial scale, the algorithm is far less important than maximising the number of solutions generated per second
 
hey guys, what is the general sentiment regarding using global variables in a function
i dont like them, but is there a legitimate use case or you can always do better
 
@JaakkoSeppälä You would, however, have to work out how to rank solutions
 
lemon
 
@Skyler as long as we are clear that global "constants" are different things, then yes, theres always a better alternative to global variables.
 
8:25 PM
@roganjosh I mean RS is random search.
 
i was looking at this tut where someone globaled a variable in this helper function he used throughout his code. It's something like theres 2-3 layers of functions, he builds an sql query and he has a queue of sql transactions he builds with this helper function. Is there a nice way of doing that without having to pass a reference through (I think literally) every function
 
The thing is, that explicit passing helps a lot when you need to revisit or modify something down the line.
That is the main reason global variables are an issue, they are a nightmare to maintain
 
@wim while I'm OK with giving feedback in technical matters, this message of yours is beyond a line. You can tell others if you think they're being too pushy or spammy, but not with that tone. I'd appreciate if you made an effort to not have a bullying tone here.
 
cabbage all :D
 
 
1 hour later…
wim
9:33 PM
@AndrasDeak OK.
out of interest: Exhibit A. Do you think this is becoming too spammy?
 
Read what I wrote. I'm not debating whether it's spammy or not.
 
wim
I get that
I'm asking your opinion since you're an RO
Maybe I need to re-calibrate my idea of spammy
 
I personally don't care much, but I understand why you'd think it's spammy. Which is also why I kept your other message which without the other one would've been perfectly fine and constructive criticism
 
Liberation! Midterms are finally done :))
 
pineapple
 
9:44 PM
Wait there is a python chanel where we can talk about random stuff? Look like IRC, is IRC dead?
 
@AndrasDeak ty :D
 
@cglacet IRC and SO chat are not mutually exclusive
 
had to look up pineapple, but pineapple!
 
and no, I'm told IRC is alive and well(?)
at least alive
I haven't been to any IRC servers in 10+ years so I wouldn't know
 
@ParitoshSingh thanks!
 
9:46 PM
That was the underlying question, I was just wondering if this kind of chat (on stackoverflow) wouldn't kill IRC as the community is probably way larger here.
 
nope, very few SO users use chat
 
I used to frequent a IRC server for a pokemon MMO once. Fun times
 
and it's a very different medium at least in my opinion
 
can do a lot of fun stuff if you start your message with a forward slash
 
#python IRC has a lot of users. more than here.
Conversations are actually quite similar.
The freenode channel that is
 
9:48 PM
ok ok :)
 
I find the discussions here slightly more aligned with my interest generally as a lot of the users here are good with numerical things.
 
@AlexanderReynolds And yet, here you are, so we clearly have the slight edge. Everyone knows that multiple messaging mediums at the same time would be impossible to handle so I'm glad you made the correct decision.
 
Indeed! And with my other message right before you sent that, you see why :)
Also I just don't have a terminal window open for IRC whilst at work.
 
What are you using this chat for? Technical questions that you don't need to ask on SO?
 
Well, yeah, I can count well above 100 on a good day after a few cups of tea
 
9:50 PM
Sometimes, or to send help to others, or to ask more meta-like questions in a chat format
 
@cglacet we don't, but that's an option
you can peruse the transcript to see the entire history
(that's one huge difference with IRC: everything is permanently recorded here)
 
I generally ping the more expert users here on good suggestions for duplicates of posts, links for canon on a topic, asking what the proper thing to do is regarding a post I'm unsure about, asking to help close questions that should be closed, and so on.
 
yeah, there's strong coupling to SO main
 
IOW, I ask here for help on being a more active user of SO outside of simply asking/answering questions.
 
<shrug> I've had plenty of technical issues solved by discussions in here that really couldn't have been translated to SO questions
 
9:53 PM
i agree with rogan
 
That's seems like a reasonable use of this tool, this and posting memes I guess.
 
@roganjosh well yeah, but for most regulars that's not the typical use case
just a convenient side-effect
 
haha
 
@cglacet memes not so much
high-brow humour (and silly puns, but that's included in high-brow humour)
 
I think I couldn't understand these kind of jokes as I don't even understand their denomination
 
9:55 PM
I just like picking up random tidbits from the conversations here between people smarter/more experienced than me.
 
@ParitoshSingh yeah I like to ask a lot of stupid questions here that I'd never ask on SO, too, just to get a better rounded understanding of why bad things are bad and good things are good.
 
we're all for opinionated questions that SO would reject :P
 
@AlexanderReynolds Did you resolve the issue with the person using list comps for side effects?
 
@AndrasDeak very true
 
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