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00:00
@Simon ah, I see what you mean, thanks
rhubarb
wim
wim
"not dead" means "in active development"
@AndrasDeak rbrb.
wim
wim
nobody said anything about "for general-purpose programming". I predict big things for micropython in the future, with microprocessors everywhere
hi, asking a style question that feels off-topic for SO. coming around to classes and OO, and wondering about whether it's bad practice to have a method of MyClass, say modify_instance(), that just changes instance attributes and doesn't return anything? this feels bad coming from an R style where you're supposed to only use side effects for file I/O and similar
@wim Except in the case of PySide where it is still under active development (years later)
wim
wim
00:02
@CalumYou 200 OK by me
@CalumYou: Methods that just change instance state are quite common in Python.
^ As long as you don't need anything else from the function (like a return value) it's fine. Unlike a lot of languages functions in Python don't actually need a return statement. It's completely optional.
wim
wim
as a general rule of thumb, don't return when you modify state, and don't modify state when you return something
@wim is there a good way to communicate then that you should use such methods like my_instance.modify_instance(), instead of trying to do things like modified_instance = my_instance.modify_instance()? or is the latter just not something you would expect
wim
wim
use the former for mutable types and the latter for immutable types
00:07
ah ok that is a good rule! thanks a ton
wim
wim
of course you wouldn't have a method named modify_instance on an immutable type, but you get the picture.
I'd love to have something like the exclamation point convention some languages have for mutative operations, but we don't have explicit "this is mutative" indicators in Python.
00:19
Tired rhubarb.
 
2 hours later…
02:12
wb
 
2 hours later…
03:43
busy night
04:15
indeed
04:29
When I see you entering chat, it usually means it's time for me to go to bed
rbrb
Well, that's because I always come online when I should be asleep or working
 
3 hours later…
07:18
Cbg folks, just was wondering, what is the right way to add and remove elements to a template in django dynamically (aka on the same web page). I.e. I load the first 25 assets out of 50 as two pages in a subelement of a template and then remove and place the other 25 only when they load the second page.
 
1 hour later…
08:46
recbg
@Skyler for that you'd need JavaScript...
@Skyler jQuery, $.get and post the retrieved data in the target element
@MNSH so jquery interfaces with the python side, or does it access the database and fill in template elements made by python?
09:18
you've got 2 options: either you rerender the page wholly for every change on Django side, or you use JavaScript to interface with the Python code via XHR, i.e. for example the $.get or $.post of jquery
09:33
Well that was the first and last time I installed a Desktop app from the Windows Store... "Do you want to unlock tabs and the dark theme for $1.49?" Nope. No I don't.
Dun dun dunnn
 
1 hour later…
10:38
@Aran-Fey not been there, never done that
10:49
Do you even use Windows? :P
no
I used windows to update my dads navigator.
that happened this year.
What does "unlock tabs" refer to?
before that I used windows in a futile attempt to try to upgrade some old windoze to windows 10 and failed.
@roganjosh Aran was looking for a file manager specifically with tabs. I presume he downloaded a promising one, only to find out that it's free-to-play freemium and doesn't actually do what he wants to do, not for free
Ahh, thanks. tbh I've never actually had to visit the Windows Store I don't think.
I find Windows 10 utterly distressing. I currently have my laptop plugged into the TV because the screen is obliterated but I know that replacing my laptop means I'm going to have to make the upgrade
11:00
you can always install linux on the new laptop
I actually like Windows 7 with a Linux VM
Luckily anything I've needed Linux for has always had a server and I can just bridge the port and use it from Windows. Eventually all my work moves to Linux but I find Windows 7 more intuitive for developing (but then, I've worked in places where that's a forced decision and I've also grown up with Windows)
The point at which an 10 year old fixed some settings in Windows 10 while I was still faffing trying to navigate it was the point I decided it was a distasteful OS :)
maybe you're just old
I reject that idea outright. I mean, it's probably true, but I still reject it :)
You need to have been looking at a tablet since birth
Pretty much that. 10 has done quite a bit to abstract away the serious settings in favour of making things like game apps more accessible.
Thinking about it more, I imagine that's quite a difficult space to work in. The generational gap in what is intuitive is pretty huge, I'm not sure I could make something that would appeal to a younger generation
11:34
And it's more important to reel in the youth
11:51
I was a windows fanboy in the previous millennium
12:04
Ha, that image is perfect
 
3 hours later…
14:43
SO is actually quite scary in the situation of good weather, the world cup and it being weekend :/
This cat clawed three keys off my keyboard while I was sleeping, and one of them (X) is permanently broken :(
Time to embrace LBYL
Just have a script open permanently so you can copy/paste except in to your code
Hopefully c and v survived or that's just going to be a painful existence :)
Yeah, C and V are fine :D
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
For that joke to hold up, I would have expected an alternative to my copy/paste. You're better than this, Andras...
14:57
what joke? :P
I should have seen that coming :)
@vaultah laptop or desktop?
Desktop
I guess if it were a laptop it would've just slept on it
time to buy a cheap decoy keyboard to protect the rest of the keys ;)
Him, pictured with the keyboard he would vandalize almost two years later
15:02
awwww
kittens are deceptively cute
That's not a cat, it's a kitten, an entirely different species that is without fault.
they are all just murder floofs (flooves?)
I can't read the actual text, but I'd say the math in that paper is a bit advanced for a kitten. Maybe you're pushing them too hard?
Kittens are more accustomed to things like "If I paw this off the windowsill with a force of x, will I hit the TV screen with y and destroy it?" Not integrals.
He could probably use integrals to calculate that exactly :P Can't have too much knowledge
15:19
Classic pushy parent :P
Hehe
@Skyler I usually have it send a GET request to a page whose view has an ajax decorator
15:40
Cabbage
@AndrasDeak "[...] style. Beauty. Grace. That’s what matters. If cats looked like frogs we’d realize what nasty cruel little bastards they are". — Granny Weatherwax in Lords and Ladies, by Terry Pratchett.
15:52
Quick question about mutating list elements in a for loop
There's got to already be a question but I can't find it
I want to add a value to each element in reverse order using a for loop, but using slicing isn't changing any values
@bendl what is "a value"? I think you need to be more specific
an int
My comment still stands. I guessed it was going to be an int or float
Can you provide an MCVE?
lol I'm finding out I have a very poor understanding of how for loops work
i though
li = [1, 2, 3, 4]
for el in li:
el += 1
i thought that would give me li = [2, 3, 4, 5]
but clearly not
15:59
See stackoverflow.com/a/20913931/2301450 There're probably better questions though
new_list = [item +1 for item in li]
yeah that's what I would do @roganjosh, but it's not always 1
@vaultah that's probably what I was looking for
@bendl we're going to dance around this issue for a while then. Your own example used += 1, which is in contradiction to what you want
@roganjosh vaultah seemed to get it on the first go
I just had a fundamental misunderstanding about for loops
Right, it's my fault for not seeing something ambiguous from the angle you provided.
16:09
whoops
eh, it's dropped.
If you understand Ned's article you'll understand why this 3 line program does what it does: lst = [[1],[2],[3]] for a in lst: a *= 2 print(lst)PM 2Ring yesterday
@bendl I suspect it's not for loops per se that are the problem, but you may have a core misunderstanding about Python objects and name binding. Take a look at the Ned Batchelder linked in the page I just linked.
 
1 hour later…
Sorry, it'll probably be gone before it's old enough for you to del-vote it.
I know;)
17:39
typo stackoverflow.com/questions/51003296/… The OP seems to be having trouble seeing the difference between uppercase V and lowercase v.
Can this be closed: stackoverflow.com/questions/50998844/… I thought it would have stuck out more prominently than it has.
Thanks
you can properly cv-pls those when they're fresh
I think I actually have a few open in my browser
nevermind, they've been dealt with
17:47
it's usually worth sticking around until the 10 minutes are up; close-worthy questions are better closed sooner than later
there's no point in closing once there are a dozen lousy/redundant answers
@roganjosh Someone actually upvoted that. :( I'm was almost tempted to not del-vote it, so that the OP and answerer wouldn't get their points refunded.
If I had used the close-vote tag today, I would have spammed the room
there's a middle ground between posting everything and posting nothing, e.g. posting a few egregious cases
I did say earlier it's scary what people are suggesting on a day like this
that's not actionable
you didn't even specify what "scary" was referring to
17:50
Weekends seem worse, because the question posting rate is lower, and there's all the last-minute desperate homework questions dominating it.
Should it be actionable in this room? I'd say 15 questions where the answers are just terrible. I downvoted, but does that mean I should raise it here?
"answers are terrible" is not a close reason
like in many other aspects of life: use your best judgement
Take this answer for example
here's a basic bill answer for you. Best wishes
17:54
@roganjosh you can see who approved what, "edit approved" link in the revision history. It was OP
@roganjosh Did you see this gem from yesterday? The question is ok, but most of the answers are face-palm material stackoverflow.com/questions/50986441/…
guys
do you use django rest framework or just django?
reduce the number of question marks please, and instead of asking questions like that try asking your question
@AndrasDeak I know I can see who edited the answer. I was making a point because it ended up removing code entirely. I'm trying to work within the "be nice" framework
ugh, when someone says a value is "stored" in a variable blergh
17:57
@roganjosh calling OP silly in a passive aggressive manner is not more nice than calling them silly directly. Frankly you've come across unusually abrasive all day, so perhaps you should take a break before you lose your mind
Instead you could've told OP that they shouldn't have approved an edit that made their post worse, it's fine to reject what conflicts with their intent. Simple as that, and next time OP would have known better.
I'm curious how else I've come across as passive-aggressive
@Permian Better, thanks. What I also meant is that there are a lot of users here who come and go (well, less "lot" on the weekends, unfortunately), and instead of waiting for someone to volunteer for your unknown django problem you should ask about your problem directly, and if someone is willing to help they will stand up
Whoever just approved that edit was a bit silly... — roganjosh 3 hours ago
other than that comment
I didn't say you were passive aggressive other than that comment
speaking of abrasions, I spent a little too much time on my bicycle yesterday
18:01
"Frankly you've come across unusually abrasive all day", and I've said a lot of things today
being abrasive and being passive-agressive are different things
both some of your comments and your messages here made me feel a bit like you've got a chip on your shoulder
when you try to be a chip off the ol' block but end up with a chip on your shoulder instead
first there was your interaction with bendl which seemed a bit weird on the grumpy side, then the comment above
then comments on the previous question you linked, such as this, which probably wouldn't have stood out without the aforementioned history
Ok, I'm trying to evaluate this properly but I was responding to "
@roganjosh vaultah seemed to get it on the first go". That says "duh,you missed the point"
There's no other way to read that comment as it's put in text
18:06
"someone got my meaning, you didn't"
Anyway, I have plenty of respect for your @AndrasDeak so, if I'm being negative, I'll shut up for today sorry
I never told you to do that :P I don't know why people keep taking my comments more than at face value
hello
I don't take them at face value. I am quite stressed at the moment and you seem to have identified that I'm interacting with people with that stress behind me so I should take a step back.
I would like to implement a system with a persistent Queue registering tasks, and a distributed set of worker nodes taking tasks, making some processing and updating the status of the task
can someone recommend me some reading or framework?
18:18
@roganjosh OK :) I just wanted to let you know that you seem to come across much grumpier than usual.
hope everything's OK
I don't know why, but I always get a little put off when someone uses "grumpy" to describe a grown person's mood. You usually associate "grumpiness" with a child's unreasonable tantrums
I'm not a native so my stance on this is hardly relevant, but anyway I associate "grumpy" more with old men shaking their canes than children
Ebenezer Scrooge was grumpy
Haha, so kids and old people then
18:25
cabbage
I'm making some reading on celery
@coldspeed yeah, the word "grumpy" definitely bothers some people. Also "relax". Telling someone to just relax in a heated discussion is typically a great way to escalate the situation :P
That's not about the word itself. There's no way you can phrase the imperative "relax" without effecting an opposite change
Yeah true, I'm talking about a specific context.
"stop being so grumpy" should be similarly effective :P
18:32
@aluncob Does that really need a framework? You can do what you want with a queue.Queue, or perhaps the PriorityQueue from that module.
to be honest
I would like to have a lot of things out of the box
I guess it's a very generic thing that probably a lot of people smarter than me and with more time to fiddle on the details already thought about
anyway, I'll take a look to queue.Queue
@aluncob There are some examples here: stackoverflow.com/questions/19369724/…
when I mentioned distributed I was thinking on the possibility of starting worker nodes remotely, like horizontally scalable solution
@aluncob Oh, ok. That is a little trickier. :)
18:40
I don't have any experience in doing that, but this looks interesting: stackoverflow.com/questions/36167335/…
Is it just me or is this unclear? To me, it reads like a Python version of "Who's on First?". stackoverflow.com/questions/51004046/…
definitely an airplane
true, hard to follow what's the issue :S
19:09
@coldspeed stackoverflow.com/questions/51004248/… I know what you mean, but that description is not quite right.
I don't see coldspeed on that post
@AndrasDeak He deleted his comment.
ohhh, OK
yeah it was easier to delete
@Permian I am indeed, 'sup?
19:23
@coldspeed And Wim's answer at his dupe target explains the situation very well.
20:06
yeah I remember that one.
20:49
@PM2Ring hey ! Thanks for your help about getvalue ... :)
21:20
cabbage
21:33
cabbage
21:48
cabbage
cabbage
weekend cabbage!
22:18
cbg
22:46
is anyone up for changing the cabbage lingo to "grassy grass" :D for greeting
voted no MCVE, probably typo/no repro
TIL there's an Ontario, California
23:12
I'd love it if OP's problem was that they inadvertently set a breakpoint on the given line in their IDE, but I'm afraid the true reason is much more prosaic
"Onatrio.txt"
FWIW that shouldn't cause an error even if it's a new file. On the other hand they probably don't have an error, because who knows what they have. I've probably spent way too much time musing about that question already.
23:24
I agree with @coldspeed they could have chosen a better province
I used to sit in a small chair. But then I got a comfier chair, and thanks to that I'm even lazier these days

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