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01:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

18:13
@Kevin we were wrong, the page you were looking at is about the letter lamda
hey guys
does anyone know why im getting an error invalid syntax
def ritprijs(leeftijd):
if leeftijd <=12 or leeftijd => 65:
return standaard(km)/100*70
error is pointing at this f leeftijd <=12 or leeftijd => 65:
=> doesn't look right to me
Try >=
omg
im blind
18:20
Or even better, try if 12 <= leeftijd <= 65:
thanks!
operator chaining is a beautiful thing when used responsibly
Or, oops, that's the opposite of the logic you're testing for, isn't it
if not 12 < leeftijd < 65: then
yeah i have to check if someones age is below 12 or above 65
if so i have to give them 30%discount
got it now tho it was indeed >=
also indentation error
it has to do somrthing wtih copy pating
looks good in my program
pasting*
18:23
you can edit and delete messages for two minutes after posting, and see this for formatting
aah thanks
I think it's about time to bring this back
Since my meta post has had zero replies from anyone outside of the room
SO bug reports mature like a good wine
18:29
@AndrasDeak Is there another page for a different kind of lambda with a nicer shortcut? I know Unicode loves to represent the same symbol in like four different ways but with insignificant variations, so I wouldn't be surprised.
"You were looking at lamda, you want lamBda" Ah of course
the lambda digraph in vim is in the same position as what you tried
I'm pretty sure that should be lambda
Search reveals a couple variants but they all have an even higher code point than 03BB so I don't expect any of them to have easier shortcuts
NO DAMN WAY
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(955))
'GREEK SMALL LETTER LAMDA'
Also it's weird that they have italic, bold, and bold italic mathematical lambda, but not regular lambda.
"lambda" is a typo in the unicode specification
found that in the comments here
> U = Unicode = in Microsoft Word, type the four-letter code, then press Alt+X
before you move the cursor
18:35
I thought it was odd but just assumed it was a variant spelling
do you often have Word around?
It's not as though the Greeks had an official way to spell their letters using English letters.
@Kevin no, "lamda" is definitely wrong, but I thought it was that website's mistake
Sayeth Wikipedia, "Unicode uses the spelling "lamda" in character names, instead of "lambda", due to "preferences expressed by the Greek National Body""
So it's this Greek National Body's fault
18:37
The Greek National Body urges you to direct all complaints to [flexes] The Gun Show.
> Το γράμμα λάμδα (επίσης λάμβδα και λάβδα) (κεφαλαίο Λ, πεζό λ) είναι το ενδέκατο γράμμα του ελληνικού αλφαβήτου.
"λάμδα (επίσης λάμβδα και λάβδα)," so at least the default spelling on wikipedia is "lamda"
To shreds, you say?
learning more about Linux... actually kinda fun
18:39
come to think of it, beta is actually pronounced as "vita"
@Marcus it is really fun learning Linux
By the way, Linux is the kernel
Many distros use the Linux Kernel
According to the source material I am using it is both the kernel and the OS XD XD XD
@Andy_A̷n̷d̷y̷ do you hear RMS approaching with a katana?
But people do use both phrasings
Yeah, it's a misnomer
18:41
@Kevin makes sense
Someone is currently upvoting every question in regardless of quality. :-(
I figure Linux is probably better to use as a reference to the kernel
@Kevin how about alfa then?
distros for the operating systems
whenever you say "linux" people understand "gnu/linux" so going terminology-nazi is rarely necessary
18:42
yeah
then again who are we to skip a chance of going technical on someone else for no good reason :P
I am using Ubuntu Linux :P
@AndrasDeak lol
@AnttiHaapala Sure, why not. Alfa Vita Lamda. I have no allegiance to the current spellings.
I'm using Ubuntu which is based on the Linux distro
18:43
and everyone would understand it is Ubuntu GNU/Linux with undefined desktop...
By the way, is anyone here really good with Linux?
While we're at it, can we remove a couple vowels from "allegiance"?
@Kevin it is Alpha in unicode
@Andy_A̷n̷d̷y̷ due to the ambiguous nature of the word "linux" that question can never be answered with "yes"
It's alpha now, but who knows what the future holds :^)
18:44
@AndrasDeak good catch. That's the whole point of the question
Is anyone good with the Linux kernel?
Would anyone here consider themselves at a master level when working with the Linux Kernel?
People generally don't respond to questions like "anyone know anything about X?" because they're afraid if they say yes, then they've committed themselves to helping you troubleshoot your X for the next hour
Are we ignoring Dunning-Kruger effects here
If so then yes, I am a master
not me. I could know something though
Linux masters are exactly the kind of people that are the least interested in helping people configure their Linux install
at least, I could know who to ask
18:46
@Kevin, I don't have any specific question. I just want to know how long it took them to become masters at Linux Kernel
How long is a piece of string?
OK then.
The generic wisdom is that it takes 20,000 hours to master any one thing, so maybe that gives you a ballpark estimate
The generic wisdom is "generic", which is why I'm asking here
2 of our member on my team went on vacation. On top of the work we have queued, we have to support their work. There's so much extra stuff that I haven't been able to finish my own work. I hope my manager don't grill me too hard about it :\
I am 90% vacuous aphorisms by volume
18:49
@Andy_A̷n̷d̷y̷ Linus wouldn't have spent more than something like 40000 hours on linux kernel, so that would be the upper estimate :D
does creating something make you its expert?
dun dunn dunnnn ethical conundrums
I wrote KevinScript but I can't remember how it works, so empirically no
woah... SO has a salary calculator
If I gave you a thirty minute head start reading the docs, you could write a better FizzBuzz in it than I could
@AndrasDeak Linus is the original creator, but many people contributed to the project. There are people that contributed more than Linus, so I don't think creating something entitles you expertise in it
By the way, what ever happened to Clement?
He used to be here like 24/7
18:53
I know of no Clement
@Kevin wonder how good Conway is at designing metapixels
Conway escaped into a deterministic pocket universe of his own creation in the early 70s. He left behind an automaton bearing his likeness, but it's not nearly as good.
really interesting set of videos here
@MooingRawr I just saw that, too. I think it is new today. I wonder how much data they have to back it up?
@Kevin Are those aphorisms which are vacuously true or ones which are empty of meaning?
2 days ago, by Kevin M Granger
user image
@Kevin the quote which I am familiar with claims 10,000 hours
@AndrasDeak and so I missed it earlier ;-)
19:02
yup :P ;)
once again I am not as on top of SO developments as I think I am
@Code-Apprentice a little bit of both.
19:32
What's up?
How do people even put 10,000 hours into something anyway. I want to discover the secret of determination.
All of the things I'm remotely good at, I was able to stick with because it felt more like play than work. But surely you can't do that for, idk, brain surgery.
Saturday night, gonna crack open a cold one and practice incisions while the big game plays on mute
If you enjoy what you do, you'll never work a day in your life.
@Kevin How many years have you been coding? I'm certain you have put in 10k hours already.
I'm sure the best brain surgeons find some enjoyment and satisfaction in what they do. They might not call it "play" but the principle is the same.
@AaronHall Counterevidence: passionate newbies joining startups, working 80 hour weeks with no breaks, burning out, resigning, and completely avoiding all programming for years afterwards
40/wk, 50/yr -> 2000 hrs/year - so 5 years full time...
That cliche was intended to be half tongue in cheek, but a star's a star.
19:43
@Code-Apprentice 16 years since I put "Hello, World!" on a graphing calculator, but a whole lot of the intervening time is not exactly packed with mindful practice
My personal rule is never be sarcastic online - people can't tell if you're serious or not. Heck, I'm so dead-pan dry that people can't tell if I'm being sarcastic in real life.
Sarcasm is best when the literal meaning and the intended meaning are both equally valid interpretations
Anyways, that's just a personal rule, so I mostly follow it on good days...
That way it doesn't matter if you're misunderstood
Yeah...
19:47
@ThiefMaster ugh, someone edited the wiki to insert a bunch of links to Packt books. 5 different links, with a couple other resources thrown in to look less biased maybe?
The whole tag info needs to be cleaned up / updated.
@AaronHall I say pan anyway.
[putting on cliche artist's hat] if your work is perfectly understood by 100% of your audience, you aimed too low.
Here's a life pro-tip: make a list of everything you want to do, so if you want to procrastinate on the most important thing, you now have productive options for procrastinating right in front of you.
Of course, that's why we're all here, isn't it?
I've been having partial success with this tip I picked up from (IIRC) John Cleese's TED talk: set aside a block of time during which you may do two things:
1. Work on the thing.
2. Do nothing. Not "browse reddit on your phone" nothing, but "stare at the wall" nothing.
4
Yeah, but I hate staring at the wall...
19:57
Usually I do about ten minutes of #2 and then I'm like "all right, let's do #1"
This requires you to already be able to resist the compulsion to look at reddit on your phone, but thanks to my powerful laziness and cynicism I can successfully think "meh there's probably nothing good on there right now" and continue wall-staring
There's the philosophy that number 1 should be something impossibly huge, so you trick yourself into procrastinating by doing what you realistically should make number 1 anyways...
I try to play tricks like that on myself but I see right through me; never works
I think the thing to google is "productive procrastination"
@AndrasDeak It does probably involve an element of delusions of grandeur.
we should all be professors of procrastination
Tricks of this kind usually work on me once and then never again but I've gotten a couple days worth of things done with this one. So either 1) this approach is qualitatively different from ordinary productivity hacks; or 2) all productivity hacks are equally effective on average, but there's one for every person which works 100x better than all the others, and the hard part is finding which one is yours
20:03
I wrote a script to send myself an email of todos.
I now feel more productive, qualitatively...
Are the todos generated programmatically?
Yes, they're appended to a list inside a function. :P
No, they're actually a bunch of list items in html...
I do link to Jira in it though...
then you can spend hours optimizing the orchestration of your time-management workflow
Yeah, but I really need to focus on my .emacs file too...
Task List:
1. Write script to send myself task list in email
2. Stuff I don't really feel like doing
20:17
1.5 check whether a tuple would be more optimal
now that you mention it...
@JanHenrikH @MayaPosch gameboys were used a lot for stuff like this. sewing machines etc. before raspberry pi, GB w… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/910779458319085568
Someone disassembled a ECG device and found a GameBoy Advance SP inside: twitter.com/JanHenrikH/status/910754596422868992
I tried combining weightlifting with Udemy, lol
For heavier sets, I usually have like 5 minutes rest in between each of them -- so for those timeblocks I'll start a new video
Otherwise it's the equivalent of "staring at the wall"
Now that's a life-hack.
You guys are kidding me right? lol
Now I feel hella old
QVC and Home Shopping Network were selling the Sewing machines that had the GB built in integration.
You could also use it as a regular GB too
20:26
I didn't sit around watching QVC, so yes, pretty sure only old people do that. :-P
It used to be home makers favorite past time.
My wife was addicted to the low monthly payments...
She kinda grew out of it, though...
That was their winning strategy. For these low payments on this product that has an inflated retail price you can get this today. And if you get it today we'll throw in X
@davidism there was never a dead air moment on QVC. That allowed you to multi-task and hear the great deals that were on the screen.
I don't know what's real anymore. Going back to my default state.
:-|
20:30
We still get packages delivered on a very regular basis... just not from TV shopping (instead - online...)
I remember trying to convince my mother to get that sewing machine so I could have a game boy. Nevertheless, I ended up with an Atari Lynx
I'm out, rhubarb.
take care.
@davidism wow
21:00
@davidism Nice. I wonder if Cassini...
21:16
If I login to a webpage and I look at the login POST request and I can read my username and password in the "params" tab of the request's info in firefox, does that mean that the website is doing it wrong? Or can this be normal?
My very vague impression is that ideally my password should never leave my browser unhashed, but I know literally nothing about web stuff
My vague impression is that your vague impression is correct
or the whole hashing thing happens on the server side and it's OK because https *waves hands intensely*
https and other encryption aside, there's no reason why the owners of that website should have access to your plaintext password
AFAIK sending a hash of the password wouldn't technically improve the security, but it would still be preferable because you may have used the same plaintext password on other websites as well
wim
wim
err .... oops
this is a custom website that belongs to our university, so my assumption was that they're plaintext offenders. So I used a throwaway password anyway, I was just curious whether my prejudices were right. Especially since they want me to give a password that's at least 8 characters long with both lower and uppercase letters and numbers...it would be typical of such pointlessly draconic rules to be coupled to awful real security measures
wim
wim
21:24
@AaronHall I accidentally reopened a question I didn't mean to
lol :D
wim
wim
any way to undo that?
close it again?
wim
wim
ok, done
lol
if the password had been hashed before transmission, knowledge of the hash wouldn't necessarily let anyone log into your account on a different website, even if you used the same password, because the hash algorithm might be different
21:25
there's a new "NEW" button that advertises the salary calculator in the top nav :/
@Rawing but I take it the fact that the POST contains my plaintext password suggests that they are also storing it plaintext? Or is that unknown?
[obligatory "I'm the opposite of an expert" disclaimer] I don't think you can assume that they store it as plaintext. They can still do "the right thing" and hash the password a million times before storing it or comparing it to the stored password
OK, thanks
I already tried to suss out whether they store it as plaintext by using a password reminder, but there's no password reminder functionality, only a "security question+security answer" combo which I abhor
Best case scenario is that the security is top-notch on the server. Meaning that an attacker who steals the stored password can't deduce the original plain text password. However, I don't see any reason why the password shouldn't be hashed before transmission to the server
salting might be one, right?
unless the browser generates the salt from the username, and why not
but now this is pointless speculation about something I don't understand so I'm OK with our previous status of "we don't know" :P
"we don't know, but we have a bad feeling and we don't like it"
21:33
hehe yeah :D
OK, they offer to generate a new password if I forgot it, which is promising
Wait how is 8 characters lower/upper/letter/number draconic?
correct horse battery staple
the main concern is not my password getting brute forced, it's me reusing it on crappy sites, or me writing it down on a post-it attached to my monitor lest I forget it
hah plaintext offenders actually linked to plaintextoffenders.com
how could that happen :P
8 character lower/upper/letter/number is a staple of Active Directory iirc.
21:37
aghh passwords
learned all that stuff the hard way
the HOW D:<
the best way to handle passwords is not to
use a password manager
wim
wim
I just use ******* everywhere, never had a problem
Another thing I (don't) like to think about are session cookies. As far as I know, session cookies aren't protected from unauthorized access any more than a regular ol' file on my PC. Which would mean that my identity is less secure than my crontab, because I need admin privileges to edit my crontab.
Yeah I use ***** as my password in places that I don't care about all the time
wim
wim
21:52
probably simple question for someone ..
how do you prepend data to a file, fast?
assume the file is 40GB and the data you want to prepend is 40 bytes.
(I'm looking for something like a "file deque")
@wim what have you tried?
wim
wim
I tried this
with open(bigfile, 'a') as f:
    f.seek(0)
    f.write('preamble')
didn't work
f.seek(-8) ;)
wim
wim
lol
do files even work this way?
wim
wim
22:03
you jest, but that's pretty much what would be nice. some way to make the OS try and free up space before the file, write some more data, and "move" the start of the file there
well sure, I figured that's what you need, but I find that unlikely to actually happen
but I don't even know how files are represented in a file system
wim
wim
for a sufficiently clever filesystem, I don't see that to be impossible in the average case
it must be a common enough requirement ...
I'm not sure about that, the "append" is a common file mode, "prepend" isn't
wim
wim
common enough for someone to have implemented a filesystem with that feature, I mean
that's possible, but don't you want to use common filesystems?
wim
wim
22:05
it might be already existing in common filesystems
some links here, didn't click yet
you're probably uninterested in the handwaving surrounding them
wim
wim
good find
spare me the well-educated hand waving
not my hand-waving; the answerer's :P
there's also something about a fallocate here but the comments are unclear to me whether the answer is actually useful
wim
wim
hmm, you can "fake" it with a named pipe, and a cat process. that's interesting.
ugh
How is it going? Visiting SO after a long time.... zzzzZZZZZ
23:18
@wim you'll be happy to hear that I just committed a test to a PR of mine
23:30
If you have to do it in Python I would prob. just do something like
data_to_prepend = "preamble"
filename = "some_big_text_file.txt"

with open(filename, "r") as original_file:
    original_file_data = original_file.read()

with open(filename, "w") as new_file:
    new_file.write(data_to_prepend + "\n" + original_file_data)
That reads all of the big file and writes it out again, right? I assume that's what wim's trying to avoid
shrug
possibly not even text, not that it matters
Not sure how else it'd be done unless there's something cool in the filesystem itself for how stuff is stored -- could be wrong though
wim
wim
@AndrasDeak 🎉
@Marcus you have 400GB of memory lying around for that original_file.read() ?
23:41
I do actually XD
wim
wim
apparently if the data you want to prepend is a multiple of the fs block size you can do some tricks
I bet some defrag programs know how to do this ...
*pillages Marcus' place for RAM*
it's an interesting question though, would like to know if there's some nice trick in Python
wim
wim
on unrelated note, if both Counter() or defaultdict(int) meets your needs, what's harder/better/faster/stronger?
@wim You still live in Chicago right? Any food recs? Weather fine?
seems to be low chance of rain lately at least from what I can look up
wim
wim
23:46
iirc counter is python impl, and defaultdict is C ... unless that changed recently
yes I'm living in Chi
weather has been lovely lately!
food: I only really know my neighborhood. jake melnick's corner tap for wings, big & littles for tacos, kiki's bistro for french
wim
wim
are you in town??
Will be shortly, yeah
wim
wim
svn / hg ?? are you sure that's not old
cpython moved to git a while ago ..
Oh I'm sure it is, just what I found from a 5 second Google search
wim
wim
23:48
contact [email protected] , be happy to meet up and show you around
depends on how much time we'll have outside our schedule but if we have a free period I'll definitely reach out
wim
wim
oh CBOT
also no
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