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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 23:00

00:40
@Rawing I would probably up vote that response, and respond, for its author has earned a small portion of my time.
 
1 hour later…
02:04
Good evening!
# How can I make this works?
class example():
    x = 'ABC'
    def test():
        print(x)
example.test()
# NameError: name 'x' is not defined
hey guys, in a neural network, how do you decide how many neurons you'll need?
@EnderLook There are too many errors in this code - please read some basics on Python classes first. Try to make your class look more like this: docs.python.org/3/tutorial/…
@Chenny I don't think there is any exact formula to say "for x problem, use 14 neurons." In general, don't hard code the number or relationships of the neurons - this is one area of your program where you will want to make many adjustments. You will want to be able to tune your network to work with your input data and application goals.
02:28
@PaulMcG mmm.. i'm still a little confused. But okay, and in the neural network, the program only changes the weights right
02:41
Yes
@EnderLook Read chapter nine of the official tutorial: docs.python.org/3/tutorial/classes.html#a-first-look-at-classes nevermind, Paul already said it.
mmm, I've just written "Python What is a Neural Network", is it to predict things?
@AaronHall I know, I've already read that page again, it seem that I forget that quickly...
It's a lot, you can't rely on just reading it once. You should type it up as you go.
And then come back to it before you start asking everyone else.
@AaronHall Sorry...
It's not just for our benefit - it's for your own good that we want you to do your homework.
02:49
@AaronHall Ok, but how many times I have to say that nothing I publish is my homework???
"Homework" is not just something you are assigned in school.
In the context of the real world, not only school, "homework" is the stuff you do to learn on your own.
Google is your index, and the docs are your textbook.
@AaronHall oh, I didn't know that.
Sorry
When you learn how to learn on your own, you become independent and even able to help others - help them learn to learn on their own.
@AaronHall That is like the fishingrod said: "Don't give fish to poors, give them a fishingrod", no?
Well, it's late for me (11:54 PM), tomorrow I had school, bye bye!
03:05
Analogies always break down, but that one holds up better than most.
 
2 hours later…
05:30
cabbage
Among classes that you've written, which one's name is your favorite?
06:05
Cbg
cabbage
06:47
cbg-ning
07:24
I found that yesterday -> stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/12/…
look for the number 3 ...
Learn How to Get Scammed... the hard way
and SO is giving its seal of approval on that
To be fair... it is Alyssa Mazzina's blog. Hard to make that SO's stance
I mean, I'm still cringing... but I'm not mad about it
@piRSquared it is a question to ask on meta, if her blog is validated by SO...
Go for it (-:
07:46
1
Q: learning material advised on a SO blog post : does SO back this learning material?

Andy KI was reading Alyssa's post on the 3 best online resources for learning Python. Most of the resources are fine, like the CodeAcademy one I use when I started with Python However, one of them attracts pros but also great cons. That learning material is Learning Python the hard way. As one of re...

5
Yeah, already commented. That's pretty terrible advice there.
@MartijnPieters Al Sweigeart's book is a great one
is my english that bad that I need to be rephrase...? : |
08:02
No. I understood what you meant perfectly well.
@piRSquared cheers
ah well, the one who think they now, need to show they know. lol
@MartijnPieters FWIW there's a python3 version now
@AndrasDeak Which is probably why he made it commercial; I don't trust the author however.
@AndrasDeak: also ironic, given how hard he tried to bash Python 3.
Yup..
At least he's happy that the commercial version can't be on any official lists, so he doesn't have to keep fighting them darned python3 apologists
I have to say I like the new mobile chat
what is wrong with the hard way? ( i have not read the book but i have heard about it)
I need a hackery shenanigans rating... Suppose I want to interleave a character, say 'X' into every other position in a list of characters say lst = ['A', 'B', 'C'] to produce a new list ['A', 'X', 'B', 'X', 'C']. How hacky is it to '|X|'.join(lst).split('|')?
Also the author fought long and hard against python3, misleading a bunch of newbies. But that's circumstantial
@piRSquared zip and flatten instead?
Quite shenanigany if you ask me
I just started the day by losing 4 rep downvoting all of the eval answers here
08:40
Morning, Pythonauts.
@JRichardSnape \o prof/teach/sir
(pick one)
Hi @andy. I've responded to any of them (and a lot worse)!
@JRichardSnape loool
Although, technically, Prof is an unwarranted promotion. But I'll take it.
@piRSquared Readility-wise it's very good, so I'd say it's perfectly fine for short lists (of strings). If you've got a longer list or non-string elements, I'd probably use an iterator approach though
08:43
I need to do some programming. I've had a summer of admin and writing and my coding fingers are itching.
I came up with this monster, but if you split it into multiple lines it should be easier to comprehend: itertools.islice((v for t in zip(itertools.repeat('X'), lst) for v in t), 1, None)
@piRSquared If you're on anything but an antiquated Python I'd either zip and flatten as per @andras, or even use slice assignment e.g.
>>> lst = ['A','B','C']
>>> dst = ['X']*len(lst)*2
>>> dst[::2] = lst
There's probably a reason why that's awful, but I hide behind the fact that I haven't been a professional programmer for decades
I just realized how majorly I misspelled "readability". This will haunt me for the rest of the day.
Thanks guys!
09:07
[x for y in lst for x in [y, 'X']][:-1]
Oh, that's smart. No need for zip.
I've totally got things I'm supposed to be doing. 2:00 am and I have documentation due in the morning... but stuff like this distracts me forever.
09:53
time to sleep... rbrb
@piRSquared see ya
10:16
cbg
10:57
recbg
11:23
cbg
11:34
may i ask what cbg(cabbage) is about? Something related to python or some channel joke?
cabbage is life, the universe and everything... it is like 42 but better...
(or it might be a bunch of crazy stuff referenced in sopython.com/salad :p)
11:54
I'm making my monte carlo program syntactically python2 compatible, and it sucks
Lol @jon
Best reply <3
I'm starting to wonder if Kevin is working away in the background and slowly turning Room 6 into Room Kevin :p
lmao
My corrupting influence is entirely beyond my conscious control, I assure you
12:12
i like peaches
so im okay with the list*
Hi
I expected 'KM 100 K3 CHROME FDR' from the function below, but got 'KM 100 K3 CHROME FDR - P '.

What am I missing?
def rstrip_multiple(orignal_string, strip_strings):
    t = orignal_string
    for s in strip_strings:
        if orignal_string.endswith(s):
            t = t[:-len(s)]
    return t

rstrip_multiple('KM 100 K3 CHROME FDR - P Net', ('Imp', 'Exp', 'Net', ' - P ', ' - Q '))
you're checking the wrong variable here: if orignal_string.endswith(s)
lol!
Thanks
My bad
also, "original" is missing an i
🤦
12:17
but that's unrelated to your problem
I would like to point out that even if you replace orignal_string.endswith with t.endswith, then you may still have undesirable behavior: if the input string is 'Foo Bar Exp Imp', then the output string is'Foo Bar Exp', even though Exp is in the strip tuple
The function only strips all values if they appear in the string in the reverse order of how they appear in the tuple.
Hang on, bad example
''Foo Bar ImpExp'' returns 'Foo Bar Imp'
The previous example was bad because it was actually returning 'Foo Bar Exp ' with a space at the end, which is fine because you only want to strip 'Exp' and not 'Exp '
OK, my program is now syntactically valid python 2. On running it I get a segfault which is new.
and I already had to give up extended tuple unpacking (both on assignment and in function calls) and the flush of print
Maybe somthing like: re.sub('((Imp|Exp|Net| - P | - Q)+$)', '', 'Foo Bar ImpExp') ?
I also saw that problem, but went ahead keeping that in mind
Because I didn't know how to assemble the parameter for the regex. But I can attempt with what you gave now
Should there not be an r before the first parameter? Idk regex
that's not related to regex per se
google "raw strings"
12:29
That r is not required, but it'd certainly be good practice. Half of the time I see a regex without an r, I get a mini-heart attack
CaBbAgE
cbg
python 2 sucks
@Kevin Ahh... the new sign for the door!? Fantastic :)
burn it down to the ground
12:29
@AndrasDeak You ever try 1.5? :p
If Dante's Inferno was written today, Clippy would definitely be in it.
lol
@Kevin he'd be the welcome party
@JonClements no :P
Hmm, I wish paint had a contrast slider.
I have four other image editors on this machine which all have contrast sliders, but none of them are in my shortcuts bar, so
@AndrasDeak Try it - then you'll love 2.x :)
12:31
:|
go on....do it.
I dare you. I double dare you
punk.
Umm... just noticed english.stackexchange.com/questions/410053/… and clicked on it... is it just me or is the comment text larger than the post text?
@Rawing How should I then build this string using parts from arguments?

r'((Imp|Exp|Net| - P | - Q)+$)'
ValueError: Mixing iteration and read methods would lose data :|
(emotions mine)
@Mierzen r'({})+$'.format('|'.join(map(re.escape, list_of_words_to_strip)))
12:40
Thanks. Then I have this
def rstrip_multiple(original_string, strip_strings):
    return re.sub(r'({})+$'.format('|'.join(map(re.escape, strip_strings))), '', original_string)
It seems to work
Probably want to make sure longer words appear first to avoid surprises...
OK, that error is because I'm both iterating over a file object and using .readline() on it. Which is damned stupid and I'm offended
In [1]: with open('foofile') as infile:
   ...:     for line in infile:
   ...:         if line.startswith('sentinel'):
   ...:             break
   ...:     while True:
   ...:         val = int(infile.readline().strip())
   ...:         print(val)
   ...:         break
   ...:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ValueError                                Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-1-d3a17e30d38d> in <module>()
      4             break
let's ignore for a second the pointlessness of that example code block
Even if said looping and readline-ing is in separate blocks, python2 wants to hold my hands. <What gives?>
What's that while True even supposed to be doing?
Wy not val = int(next(infile)) ?
That one? Nothing meaningful. In my actual use case that's where the work starts
I find it more convenient to cut off the garbage before the sentinel line using a for loop
Ummm.... for wanted in islice(dropwhile(lambda L: L != 'sentinel', infile), 1, None)... ?
12:51
bleh
readline().strip() is often a mistaken code when readline().rstrip() is what is really desired.
I can probably rewrite it in 3-4 different ways, I just never realized that I have to because python 3 is great :P
@PaulMcG also all fairly pointless if ultimately passing to int...
@PaulMcG thanks, in my case there are only numbers everywhere so the left part doesn't matter much
I'm actually splitting on whitespace and thought that those spaces matter; turns out they don't
In [42]: '  2 3 4 \n'.split()
Out[42]: ['2', '3', '4']
so yeah, any stripping is superfluous
>>> ' a b '.split()
['a', 'b']
>>> ' a b '.split(' ')
['', 'a', 'b', '']
12:54
yeah, I know
^ not sure if I'm a fan of that
also 'a b' I think
seems inconsistent.
it's a different kind of consistency
if ' ' and None gave the same behaviour, it would be redundant
Make the common stuff easy and the uncommon stuff possible
12:55
@Rawing you must really love stuff like: 'abcdef'.replace('', 'x') then :)
cabbage
@PaulMcG readline().rstrip('\r\n')
can we focus on the important part and be offended that python 2 thinks I'm stupid?
12:56
@JonClements aargghh, my eyes! My eyes!
@AndrasDeak That's only important if you make it important :)
'ooo'.replace('', 'x') for Rawing
I'm actually gonna run that, just to see what happens. Hold my beer.
Good news, computer didn't explode.
I'm contemplating the abandonment of my python2-compatibility
@Rawing :(){ :|: & };: :p
13:00
I pasted that into python and was disappointed that a SyntaxError was all I got. After googling it, I guess I got lucky
Beyond the low quality of the book itself, the attitude the author promotes both in the book and in their public actions is incredibly toxic to the Python community. For a site that prides itself on being nice and professional, this recommendation is extremely dissonant. — davidism 52 secs ago
figured I'd chime in on that LPTHW post
@davidism cheers
@JohnGalt #Vaultah was cool
I read Ayn Rand's book, "Atlas Shrugged" a few years ago... Too... polarizing
So, "John Galt" is an ironic name, right? Because speaking of toxic books.
13:05
OK took me a while to understand what's going on
i.e. vaultah is still vaultah
but does anyone know what vaultah really is? :p
Oh, wow, I just assumed "black icon, new name, must be vaultah".
Point still holds though.
Are you saying that people with all black avatars look the same to you? That's racist
Will Let the real Vaultah please stand up
TypeError: super() takes at least 1 argument (0 given)
myeeeeeh
but I feel it in my bones that the ubuntu repos only contain an old version of vtk-python that's python2 only :/
13:20
@AndrasDeak is that to me? Are you suggesting if 'John' does something somewhere, no one should get named John?
Isn't that a bit risky? Like getting a Japanese tattoo when you don't speak Japanese?
\o cbg
@AndrasDeak lol... Very smooth...
@JohnGalt Lol, I'm so sorry, I never considered the possibility that that's your real name:D I blame the context:)
@AndrasDeak ah that reminded me...
13:24
but you're free to blame my backwards ways ;)
@AndrasDeak I don't understand why people get worked up for a fictional character.

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I haven't read the book either, so I can't say in this case
in some cases fictional characters represent notions that one might or might not want to identify with, I assume that's behind most cases of people being worked up over fiction
The book is incredibly bad, but it's hard to recognize that at the age a lot of people read it.
@AnttiHaapala dangerous? Oh, "wanted" joke?
13:26
But I didn't mean to sound like I had something against you or your real name.
I read The Fountainhead at 13 and I liked it. Then a week later I decided all of its ideas didn't actually apply in the real world
> There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. -- John Rogers
@AndrasDeak that's how you know they are well experienced, they are that close to the edge.
@AnttiHaapala +1
13:28
I see the "There are A and B. One is [long description that sounds like A but actually applies to B if you think about it], the other is A" joke structure often enough that I wonder if it has a Wikipedia article yet
@AnttiHaapala they are called enemy and they promise free lunch. I call shenanigans
There are lot of 'books' that people take seriously, read and decide yourself what it's worth, I guess, just don't impose your views onto others.
(I realized that NMI is only pronounced as enemy in Hungarian :| slow day today!)
Bad ideas can't hurt you, but people with bad ideas that vote sure can.
@davidism As someone who doesn't know anything about the book/author, can you reference something that describes those problems in a bit more detail? — Servy 1 min ago
Anyone have a decent reference for this? I don't really want to go hunting for articles about ZS and LPTHW.
13:32
@davidism well - there's a summary of the book on sopy.... there's also poke's rebuttal and that person's article who's got a picture of a rabbit? evee or something ?
Link one of his tweets :P
Servy sounds like the guy in the audience planted by the snake oil salesman to ask leading questions that segue into the next sales pitch.
Oh yeah, Eevee's article would probably be good.
"Hello, yes, I am a concerned consumer and my mustache is definitely not fake. Tell me, does your product remove grass stains and cure stomach ulcers?"
I linked the pamphlet against python 3 from web.archive, didn't read here first
is that OK?
13:34
The hard part is not many people write about the person and how their behavior is bad, and I don't go out of my way to keep references about them (or most things).
Best to not get involved with links re: the person... just keep it factual about criticism on the work and let everyone else look further if they choose...
there were some (ruby-related?) old posts of his where he went on and on about challenging opponents to a street fight or something
The list on the wiki only has 22 points, a far cry from the historical standard of 95 Theses
@JonClements yeah, getting ad hominem is probably not helpful
cabbage :-)
13:39
cbg
@Servy perhaps a good recent article is this one by Eevee, who's occasionally on SO and is a famous Python dev in their own right. It addresses a recent article the LPTHW author wrote on both a technical and personal level. — davidism 59 secs ago
There, thanks for the Eevee recommendation.
@davidism I linked the "recent article" beforehand
So we're having the first Pycon Ever in Nigeria @ the moment.
14
Yeah great call on the Eevee article.
@danidee nice!
hope you're having fun
13:40
@danidee That's amazing!!!!
@danidee congrats. do you have a link?
@AndrasDeak I can't remember the last time i had so much fun
that's great :)
@AndyK pycon.ng
The Videos are going to be uploaded to youtube later in the day
I also gave a talk :-D
13:43
> Continuous Integration for Python applications with Gitlab CI
:)
on Continuous integration for Python applications with Gitlab CI
@AndrasDeak Yeah....beat me to it
@danidee I drop a line on TW and FB
@danidee That is amazing. Congrats. I'll definitely be watching it!
I never know how to sound positive :D
@danidee are you on twitter?
13:44
I'll just go home
rhubarb
yep you are...found you 😛
@idjaw yeah @osaetindaniel
Though i had some Linux hiccups on Stage as i was trying to do a live demo :-(
Everyone should vote on @MartijnPieters's comment on the blog post. stackoverflow.blog/2017/09/12/…
but it still went well
@danidee It's almost a must to have issues in a live demo. Don't let that bother you
13:50
Listening to chill stuff.
wait wait wait
@danidee you're an arsenal fan AND a spurs fan?
how the yam does that work? LOL!!!
you know when it's getting closer to the good part of the year when your news feed contains Hockey news :D
@davidism "there are serious issues with Python 3 for beginners," - I'm confused, what are they? Besides print() being way more helpful in Python3?
@davidism done
I honestly think 95% of the resistance to Py3 is that print now requires ()'s
I think the links provided explain clearly enough what LPTHW considers "serious issues" and why they are not actually serious issues. No need to rehash it in here
I think 95% of the resistance is "I remember hearing that there's resistance to Py3, I guess I'll use 2 until the controversy is resolved"
14:01
Yeah, we don't need the conversation here again, it's all been said.
Fair enough, I was just like...huh
Y'all told me to avoid it, and I did, so :)
@Kevin Final message from Cassini: "Fault detected: attempting recovery. Changing to backup systems."
To clarify, I'm not saying "you should just take our word for it that there's no problem", I'm saying "the arguments for whether there is a problem exist out there already and you can find them and decide for yourself if you're curious".
Listening to Subaqueous reminded me of Helix's mixes. I don't even remember where I heard one the first time, although I found them again on di.fm later.
Helix - Island Universe is still my favorite, although the last few he put out are contenders for the spot.
.@eevee thanks for your Python FAQs, they're really well written. 🐍✍️ I hope you'll write more some time! https://eev.ee/blog/2011/07/22/python-faq/
Since it came up, I decided it would be good to say thank you. :-)
14:20
I'm confused about scipy's geometric_transform example docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/reference/generated/…, I can't seem to add 2 and 2 together to see how the tuple acts as the new coordinates..?
@PaulMcG It'll now vanish for a bit, but it'll eventually somehow get a major tech boost, think its name is 'C'ini and will attempt to find its creator who is of course William Shatner :)
I get the impression that Eevee has about thirty side projects, so adding one more couldn't hurt
Is there a way to execute a python program without install python (3.6)? I found something about use an env but I think that I still need to have installed python in order to make an env, right?
14:35
you can make a standalone executable file with something like py2exe or cx_freeze
of course, that doesn't help you if you have a normal python script you want to execute, but no python. If that's what you were asking about.
You could also run your program on an online interpreter such as Ideone. It's going to be slow and ugly and you won't have access to any OS-facing things such as opening files, but you can't beat the convenience
But yeah. If you don't have Python on your computer, then you can't run .py files on your computer.
"I just need something that can read the .py file and understand what it does and execute those instructions." That thing is Python.
Ahh :(
There isn't any python that can be installed in my pendrive?
Fairly sure there's a liveusb Python thingy... heck - you can get entire live OS's... :)
I am cautiously optimistic that a nice portable Python implementation exists out there somewhere.
@idjaw It was a joke initially :-D
14:43
heck, you could probably install the normal python onto a pendrive and it'd work.
python.org/download/alternatives lists at least two things with "portable" in the description
but now i can't deny the fact that i like Spurs now cuz of certain players (Dele Alli, Eriksen, Dembele)
After 15 seconds of reading their web page I have decided that eGenix PyRun is pretty nice, provided you're on Linux
15:01
rb folks
I remember trying to look up having a portable Python on a Flash Drive. didn't yield anything useful.
15:23
This box contains french fries and a hot dog wrapped in paper which is labeled "hot dog with french fries". It bothers me that this label is on the wrapper and not the box, because there are no french fries in the wrapper. Poor encapsulation at work.
Have you consider maybe it's so when you open the paper you can lay the fries on the paper?
Or maybe the paper is acting like a sign, sort of like fresh fruits in a generic green box.
If that were the intent, then the box should come with a sharpie so I can change the wrapper from "hot dog" to "hot dog with french fries" when and only when I put fries on the wrapper
general consumers accepted the notion of 'batteries not include', I'm sure they could say 'sharpie not included'. If anything just a lack of misprint on their part :D
They just save you the effort and what not. :D
Today for lunch, my company is buying me takeout pho.... Not sure how that will work out .... :\
I don't wanna decline it because it may seem rude of me to, but then again I'n concern about the temperature of the soup when it arrives, and if it would still be sufficient enough to 'cook' the beef.
I would trade my pho for your hotdog :D
The hot dog is gone. Only the french fries remain. The label is wronger than ever.
15:31
please don't post recent questions in the room, see our room rules: sopython.com/chatroom
DSM
DSM
Friday morning cabbage!
TV chat. I watched Bojack Horseman this week and I felt it was one of the stronger seasons. If the average total quality of Bojack Horseman meets your standards for watchable television, then you should watch this season of Bojack Horseman.
"watch this if you think you will like watching this", the review that applies to all things
DSM
DSM
15:40
Has anyone used airflow for anything? It looks promising for some stuff I want to try, and a better fit than Luigi for it. (I can't make a more specific question because I don't have a specific problem yet!)
@DSM are you talking about github.com/apache/incubator-airflow?
@PeterVaro I would love if US gov projects encouraged free public open source releases more consistently.
the same goes to the EU I guess ;)
My company technically does open source, but the source is only available on gov controlled, not completely public, repositories.
Although there are plenty of projects that do get more public releases, it's just not consistent.
quora.com/… is an interesting breakdown of a seemingly simple "95% of MIT grads can't solve this brain teaser!!!" image that just happens to be the only one that's actually telling the truth
Is it a good idea to close that as a dupe of a different question just because one possible solution happens to work for both?
It's not a different question...
DSM
DSM
@davidism: yeah, that's the one.
One of them asks about printing the string and the other one specifically asks about not printing it but modifying it instead?
Multiple dupe targets can be added if applicable
15:55
@DSM looks interesting, but I'm not sure what I would use it for.
Maybe I could build a CI server with it.
@Rawing we could add this as another duplicate target, but it was closed as a duplicate of the first one.
All those useful comments there
@vaultah Please do. I'm going to cast a re-open vote on that question.
DSM
DSM
"seen 8s ago, talked 2517d ago" <- that's vow-of-silence territory
@Rawing why?...
16:04
@vaultah Because it's incorrectly marked as a duplicate, and it's probably useful to keep around as a dupe target for future questions.
It's not incorrectly marked.
DSM
DSM
At this point almost every basic question about strings is a duplicate. The only task is finding what it's a duplicate of.
f-strings \o/
I fail to comprehend how "modify a string" and "print a string" are the same question.
16:05
Why is adding further dupe targets insufficient?
And what if the paper trash falls into to metal recycle bin? This is SO, not an actual waste control plant
if that was unclear, the question I voted to re-open was the new duplicate target vaultah dug up
It was; now I'm just confused. I'll reread when I'm back in front of a computer
This is your bi-yearly reminder that it's OK to have different opinions about what ought to be closed and why
Well keep that opinion to yourself :P
Side A can say "eh, close enough" and side B can say, "hmm, not quite close enough" while both acting in good faith
DSM
DSM
16:13
I'm not happy with how quickly we've taken "death match!!" off the table.
@AndrasDeak Can't, I'm all out of bushels to hide my light under.
@DSM I am! That wouldn't have been a fair fight!
sorry for the confusion; I'll remember to be more specific than "that question" in the future
16:29
Extended the WebFaction account to the end of the month, since I haven't had enough time to finish the move to Linode. Maybe this weekend.
16:40
btw, this is my mental image of @Andras, so I'm not confident I could've won a death match. But it's good that @Kevin remained neutral, because he's got a sword.
According to room canon, I also have an orbital satellite that fires scalding liquid.
That is... not immediately as threatening as a sword, but an impressive piece of weaponry nonetheless.
It's useful if we're within the horse latitudes, but only once every 95 minutes
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 23:00

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