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3:00 PM
How can I vibrate my PC using python?
 
Frequent disk seeks? Only works for non-solid state drives though
 
if you have a magnetic hdd, disable the caching and read the first and last sector directly repeatedly...
it will vibrate your computer and break your hard disk.
 
Yes my PC support vibration , theres a touch button , when I pressed the button, it vibrates.
 
3:03 PM
I signed up
 
probably all hardware
 
thanks for sharing @enderland
I love mentoring
wow that sounded sarcastic lol. It wasn't
 
^
lol
 
There's probably a function in your PC's OS' API to vibrate. I bet you'll need ctypes.
 
@idjaw I wrote an internal blog post about the importance of mentoring which went live very close to when this meta post was posted
 
3:05 PM
@enderland can you link it please?
oh internal
 
"internal blog post" :P
 
nvm
:)
 
it takes a lot of energy to make garlic into a good SO question..
 
I think there are a lot of problems in how one starts off with SO and enters the community as a user looking to learn.
 
if they bother to come to the chat, that's a good sign already.
 
3:07 PM
and seriously they need to try this first
54
Q: Pre-fill question-box with text for new users (A/B study proposal)

enderlandProblem statement Many new users are unaware of how to formulate a good question, particularly for the technical sites like Stack Overflow, Super User (OK, all of SE). This leads to many new questions being: Closed Downvoted Deleted In addition, it leads to a fair bit of community work tryin...

@AnttiHaapala have you been here recently? lol
 
I've been answering
 
Questions should be written using BDD
 
all the garlic here is nothing compared to the majority of all garbage (=majority of all questions) poured in C
 
Given I am an SO user
When I provide <code>
And I <explain> what it does
And I <show> the expected input and output
Then I can post my question
Bane voice Then you have my permission to post
 
55
Q: Pre-fill question-box with text for new users (A/B study proposal)

enderlandProblem statement Many new users are unaware of how to formulate a good question, particularly for the technical sites like Stack Overflow, Super User (OK, all of SE). This leads to many new questions being: Closed Downvoted Deleted In addition, it leads to a fair bit of community work tryin...

 
3:09 PM
@enderland that's a good idea
 
@enderland that's awesome dude
 
but I'd take it further and make it into Clippy
there should be several templates.
 
YES!
but we need a cute name for it
 
Trolly
 
Trolleycar
 
3:10 PM
omg....a sloth named trolly
that's who the SO clippy should be
a sloth
I see you're writing a question precious
 
@idjaw someone like me essentially came to SO looking for answers for questions, being very poor at adapting existing answers/understanding how existing answers and documentation applied to the characters in my editor, and unconsciously really looking for some sort of community to mentor me in my code-learning journey.
 
So, that is also the thing with SO....it's not a mentoring site where someone will tech you for long periods at a time. It's a quick stop shop
Thing is, SO has grown in terms of all the information on the site
If you can't find your answer, you are most likely not using the right words, or for some reason the wording in the duplicate is not on point for some of the common terms that might be used
It is also not the friendliest to new comers to programming in general and research/troubleshooting methodologies.
 
I think a higher percentage of questions fall into the "I have no idea what I'm doing but I think I want to do <something something vague/ambiguous>"
 
And this is usually demographically, for young individuals
and sometimes (I'm a victim of this too sometimes) we really respond harshly
I think this is an uncontrollable symptom of community run site
 
I think SE would be a lot better off if they just accepted that it's not a welcoming place to newbie questions or bad questions
 
3:15 PM
@enderland the chat could help with that tho
 
@AnttiHaapala ... I doubt it
 
if the chat is going to be a good place for teaching newbies, we aren't doing that right now.
 
I mean remove the tshi before it hits the fan
 
I'm very patient and it's still a struggle to help people formulate basic questions
 
and my understanding of the chat is that it is not that
 
3:16 PM
just get bots that ask "what have you tried?" and 5 followups of "why do you think that is?"
 
but yeah I think your template would be good...
the mcve's always are the same: no code, no traceback, no operating system version, no compiler version etc...
the OP just didn't think that they matter.
why would they
better to let them write TMI, then Illuminati can perfect the Q.
 
the number of SO questions with TMI vs TLI is... like 1:100
 
I think more OPs don't realize they need to provide that instead of not thinking it was important
a lot of the people who consciously think it is not important actually know what they are doing to a degree, but they just don't realize that people are not magicians
 
that's why a template should ask for it
that's why I would want a clippy:
ask a question: which kind of question
 
it'd also help make it easier to just VtC questions that blatantly ignore the template
 
3:19 PM
[ ] I have a generic question about this language feature
[ ] I have a bug in my code
[ ] ....
then you choose it, you get a template in the answer box
that suggests things you should mention
 
[ ] I want a recommendation for a tool
 
that's interesting
 
and it auto closes it! lol
 
but if you choose recommendation for a tool, it explains that you should not right?
haha
ok
 
3:20 PM
@idjaw you guys have been pretty awesome to me, in here, FWIW.
 
also it makes me annoyed to no end to have a degree in HCI and see how bad the SO UX is... >.>
 
and then a UX firm makes a meta question asking for free help?
yeah...I'd be annoyed too :)
 
so many of the core problems that SO has are self inflicted
and the community deals with them
 
the problem with current How to Ask is that most users have <span class=attention />.
3
 
@AnttiHaapala tl;dr
 
3:23 PM
@toonarmycaptain glad you're enjoying your time here.
 
also for lols, go to Stack Overflow and register a new account and press the "Ask a Question" button
 
you know...for the sake of a meta post to show all the flaws. That is exactly what it would take
experienced user creates a new account, tries to make a new question
 
@enderland Changes to the /ask page are on the table along with what Kristina is proposing here. Now that we have a PM for the DAG team (Q&A focused stuff), the /ask page is going to finally get some love and attention. — bluefeet ♦ 1 min ago
6-8 weeks months years?
 
6-8 nevers
 
simple hypothetical, in here I can go what's wrong with XYZ question, someone will reply tl;dr, and I could ask what does that mean, have it explained, and not have a bunch of angry comments on a question on SO.
Lots of people (I work in schools...it's endemic) don't do well with reading and learning these days; the conversational aspect of chat helps. Especially when for newbies (like I was, having not coded since my teens, in a different language), you read the answer, but don't know how it applies, or how implement it, in your code.
 
3:27 PM
to succeed as a software engineer you need to be able to research and read documentation/source code, though
 
@toonarmycaptain Attention spans in general in younger people are more used to immediate resolution of things. No one wants to wait. So text that goes beyond a tweet is too long and attention is gone
Seriously, we are approaching picture books
it's insane
 
there are these kinds of people who just copy-paste and permute the code until they get the "correct" result...
 
DSM
Midweek "I-call-it-genetic-programming" cabbage for all.
 
the "it might take 4 billion years more" programming...
 
@DSM now I want to write a GA that takes random SO code snippets in a language and iterates until it gets something to compile
 
3:30 PM
and there are two kinds of those: one is constantly happy no matters what, another one is struggling and sweating because of programming being "hard"
 
@idjaw I'm the first to critique even people of my generation, but I don't think it's that bad, yet. I believe it's as much a reading comprehension issue, as well as the specific issue with relating what one might read to their specific situation, as it is attention span. I include myself as an example of this, spending hours searching for an answer before posting on SO, really just not understanding how to apply what I was reading to what I was trying to do.
 
DSM
There have been times in the past where I couldn't figure out the right code, so I wrote strict tests and then generated a whole bunch of variants of the code (changing indices, stopping conditions, etc.) to see if I could find the right combination.
 
@toonarmycaptain how old are you, though?
 
@enderland why does it matter?
 
I'm curious what "my generation" means
 
3:32 PM
after all SO is not really for experts, is more to help rookies
 
and all I've got is your profile description which suggests you aren't 21
 
DSM
Are we really talking about "my generation"?
(I am very pleased with myself I pulled that off.)
 
@enderland Old enough to have fathered any of the children in the school district I work in, lol
 
really
 
wat
 
3:34 PM
I think the part anyone older than maybe 25 or so has is that kids these days (tm) have grown up with technology from their early childhood
 
Old people have complained about the next generation since at least the Ancient Greeks. And the world has still not come to an end.
 
@enderland the first computers I ever used involved a cassette player. But both my parents coded before I was born. One used an 'internet' before I was born. So I consider myself not exactly normal in that respect.
 
pls, I once ate a pizza before it was cool.
 
@Code-Apprentice ... yet. one day the doomsayers will be right!
 
@DSM nice
 
3:37 PM
back in my day, my game controllers were wired!
 
@idjaw so was my tv box
with push buttons!
 
@enderland or the doomsayers will never be right...only time will tell
 
@rlemon how did we live
 
happier
 
@idjaw so what you're saying is you're six, and you got a nintendo classic for Christmas?
 
3:39 PM
@rlemon "cool" as in the temperature? Or as in the acceptedness?
 
@toonarmycaptain I still own my kidneys, so no, I do not have a NES classic. :P
 
@Code-Apprentice yes
 
@idjaw you'd sell your kidneys for less than $100? I'll take two!
 
@toonarmycaptain If you can find a NES classic for 100$ right now, please ping me immediately
 
I still need to test it more, but I think I've figured out what to do with Flask logging.
 
3:41 PM
@idjaw now? Poor chance, around Christmas, I found a couple we gave as gifts.
 
@toonarmycaptain I think you meant to reply to me
 
I am trying hard to find meaning.
 
DSM
I could imagine giving a flask as a gift. Logging is harder to give as a gift, though maybe not impossible, but "flask logging" is awfully hard.
 
Give the gift of a personal "flask logging" worker!
 
you could give a logging machine:
 
3:43 PM
@idjaw I did.
 
give them a pile of firewood and then snicker to yourself as no one else gets it.
 
sooo
I'm wondering, how can I grab all .dll, .exe, and .pdb files in a directory
 
@rlemon you and your inclusive OR.
 
@Code-Apprentice perhaps
 
os.listdir(path).Where(x => x.EndsWith(".exe") || x.EndsWith(".dll") || ...) is a mix or C# and python
 
3:50 PM
python#
p#
yo trademark that!
 
lol
 
P is a programming language that was developed by Microsoft. P enables programmers to specify systems consisting of a collection of state machines that communicate asynchronously in terms of events. Code can be run on Microsoft Windows and Windows Phone, and is now open source. == References == P: Safe asynchronous event-driven programming. Ankush Desai, Vivek Gupta, Ethan Jackson, Shaz Qadeer, Sriram Rajamani, and Damien Zufferey. In Proceedings of ACM SIGPLAN Conference on Programming Language Design and Implementation (PLDI), 2013. Systematic testing of asynchronous reactive systems. Ankush...
pretty close already
 
WHY CAN I NEVER BE ORIGINAL!!!!!
WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO?!?!?
table flip
 
name the language: P%SDF
 
otherwise, do I really have to loop through the file names manually :D
 
DSM
3:53 PM
Life is short. Listcomp it and get on with your day, [path for path in os.listdir(".") if path.endswith(('.dll', '.exe', '.pdb'))]. Selecting only files and not directories could be done too.
(I tend to use glob and not listdir but styles vary.)
 
[os.path.splitext(f)[1] in {'.exe', '.dll'} for f in os.listdir(path)]
@Kevin something like that ^
And Anastasiya being autocompleted all the time :D
 
DSM
Is Kevin looking for a list of Trues and Falses?
 
no
list of file names
 
lol :D
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<antti>", line 1, in <brain>
CaffeineUnderrunError: need more coffee
so, something like that in that throw the boolean stuff into if
 
what is the ** operator?
 
3:57 PM
@AnttiHaapala I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind Cython, and why it exists, because it honestly seems weird as hell.
 
@Kevin other other kevin.... stackoverflow.com/questions/36901/…
 
@Kevin exponentiation or double splat
 
you'd be surprised what results you get putting that exact question in the search :P
 
also, could you change your avatar a bit :d
because I was wondering why our more-regular Kevin asks so funny questions
 
DSM
@Ungeheuer: I use Cython pretty regularly. It can give me orders of magnitude performance improvements in my numerics, without requiring me to switch to writing completely in C++. That seems like reason enough, TBH..
 
3:59 PM
especially in small size you're almost impossible to tell apart now :D
 
@AnttiHaapala same
 
you're the "@Kevin with the dark poison-green identicon thingie that looks squareish"
 
@DSM Based on what I read, you write in python, and during compilation the python is translated into C. How does it end up giving you a performance improvement?
 
i'm looking more for, [x**2 for x in range(10)]
doesn't seem like arguments?
 
@Kevin or actually changing username would be better... unless you don't like extra pings all the time
 
4:02 PM
ahh
exponent
 
@DSM I'm new to Python, and stumbled onto Cython when looking for what to download, so color me confused.
 
DSM
@Ungeheuer: if you don't already know you need Cython you probably don't. :-)
 
@Ungeheuer let me tell you what you need:
 
@AnttiHaapala MORE COWBELL
 
always press the leftmost button :D
ah sorry but it is source only :d
or does it detect?
 
4:05 PM
It detects - offers to download MacOS X version for me
 
rbrb lunch
 
@DSM I know I don't, but I like to know stuff.
Maybe I'll run into it later in life.
 
DSM
Fair enough. The performance benefits come because C-level loops on low-level C types are a lot faster than Python-level loops on high-level Python types. The tradeoff is that it's not nearly as much fun to write, but for those of us where performance is a real need (not just a nice bonus), it's a major win.
 
4:21 PM
@DSM I call that empirical development. When in doubt with matrix orders, program both :P
 
@DSM I remember from my C course last semester the professor mentioned something about the efficiency of loops in C. Thank you!
 
something something rewrite it in rust and then cffi to it
 
4:45 PM
Good idea for an animation.
 
4:56 PM
recbg
 
cbg how goes the new job ?
 
@enderland so...SO is revolutionarily trying to outsource issues to the community with no rep limit. Uuuuh I'm sure I haven't seen that before.
there will be so many blind leading the blind that we'll be able to reduce costs by turning off the lights altogether
 
@MooingRawr I officially start on Tuesday. My boss gave me a book on ColdFusion and I started reading it yesterday.
will have to be sure to put some time into it today as well.
I have some time today to work on some personal projects. Not sure which I want to do, though...
 
5:17 PM
@Code-Apprentice Cold Fusion?
 
PUT THE BOOK DOWN
 
impossible!
well, not reproducible
 
ColdFusion is horrible man
It's like Java and HTML had a disfigured baby
Every function call and declaration requires a WHOLE line of code for every single parameter
 
should've went with Inertial-ConfinementFusion instead
 
Put the book down man :(
 
5:19 PM
So I hear. But I am being paid to learn it. I will take the money and run at the first chance.
 
I did CFM for 2 years, and 3 months before I was laid off, we switched to python and I almost literally cried of joy
 
Some of our clients used python. I will work through this CF project and eventually get some work with Django.
 
@AndrasDeak that's exactly what I was thinking.
@Code-Apprentice that sounds much less interesting, I thought you were doing something to do with Fusion reactors..
 
... in Antarctica
 
5:32 PM
@PM2Ring .... wow
 
@AndrasDeak Surely they'll implement some form of quality control on the mentors? Otherwise it'll be a worse joke than SOD. I better read that meta post again...
 
@PM2Ring "can you breathe?" "yep!" "you're in!"
 
I realise they want raw 1-rep newbies to be able to ask about their questions in the mentoring room, but the mentors need to have some site knowledge and preferably some domain-specific knowledge too. Eg, if you don't have a bronze badge in a language tag you probably aren't going to be very useful as a mentor.
I guess I should post that over on meta...
 
@PM2Ring I'm not sure I agree. Even without understanding too deeply the coding specifics, I feel I could at least point someone in the direction of a better question, even in a language I'm not familiar with. I feel if I can't comprehend what they're asking, if the code they provide relates to what they're asking etc, then it's probably a poor question.
 
@PaulCrovella Oh, yes. We're killing it after about a month in any case - it's meant to be a short-term experiment where we gather data about the kinds of things people need help with, the way that people interact with each other in this setting, and how much getting personal help with asking a question actually helps people feel more welcome. So there really is no success/failure criteria here, because knowledge gained is a success - even if we learn that this is a horrible idea. :) — Kristina Lustig ♦ 2 hours ago
 
5:39 PM
When you say that "there are no rep minimums for this room", that just applies to the new members asking for help to get their question in shape, right? Surely the mentors need site experience, and probably also domain-specific experience too. I suggest that mentors should have at least a bronze badge in some language tag. — PM 2Ring 9 secs ago
 
@toonarmycaptain luckily the average question quality is low enough a monkey with a keyboard of preset questions could probably help improve it
@PM2Ring I don't think you need a bronze badge to help 99% of people who need being helped by this
 
@PM2Ring probably the same one they used for Documentation :)
they're ostensibly looking for input considering the whole system...but I wouldn't hold my breath until anything suggested by meta is actually accepted
 
So, this should also be on the radar to fix: stackoverflow.com/questions/45333868/…
give me the code, ask for details, someone sweeps in for the answer
first of all the question is an easy dupe, but at the same time the new user needs guidance
however none of it matters when they get their answer and move on
 
@enderland Perhaps. I just know that when I look at questions for languages I've never used, it can often be very hard to tell if it's a good or bad question, unless it's a total dog.
 
@PM2Ring most recent question on SO is this stackoverflow.com/q/45334032/1048539
I mean, seriously, that couldn't have been better if I had planned it
you don't need to know anything to be able to help that person
 
5:44 PM
@enderland Yeah, that one's obviously a total dog, though.
 
I mean, it was the most recent SO question when I looked :P
again both those can be trivially improved with someone having zero idea of how their tools work
holy garlic homepage
I'm not sure if it's luck or not that 3 questions in a row were all terribad
 
@enderland good god....
 
It's good to see Martin James back on SO meta.
 
oh ffs I need to stop this experiment, here's #4 stackoverflow.com/q/45334101/1048539
have I convinced you @PM2Ring? I'm making myself hate the world
oh good #5 at least has code, though I'm 99% sure it's just a typo - stackoverflow.com/q/45334119/1048539
 
@enderland yeah ok I'd need to actually google a few things to help with that, not knowing any PHP, but the rest I could help people towards an appropriate question, I believe.
 
5:52 PM
@enderland I registered for mentorship and also wrote something about Clippy into the freeform text field
 
@enderland I haven't looked at the other questions yet, I was busy commenting, down-voting, & close-voting the first one. :) Ok, with really bad questions, you don't need much expertise to tell someone "That stinks. Come back when you've read this and have a real question".
Maybe it's worthwhile helping the OP of that Android SHA1 question to understand why that question is crap, and teaching them how to search for existing questions that will answer it, or at least re-writing it so it becomes an acceptable question. But maybe it's just a waste of time when the question is that bad, and if mentors end up doing too much of that sort of thing, they'll just burn out.
 
@enderland omg it got an answer
 
lol 2/5 of those are deleted already
 
@PM2Ring so it is :D
at least one is not afraid to say things how they are :D
perhaps they get another suspension but, whatever.
 
5:56 PM
@AnttiHaapala "First open the gradle tab -> project name -> Tasks -> singingReport" How quaint. More software should generate singing reports. It takes me back to the days of the singing telegram.
 
the fact is that most questions on SO are like those. lol.
 
@PM2Ring but you can't tell them that it stinks, because you need to Be Nice and Love is all around
 
@AndrasDeak just downvote....
 
I thought the context was still mentoring
 
you can downvote the mentoree
 
5:59 PM
Even martin james is cautiously positive of the mentoring stuff meta.stackoverflow.com/a/353855/918959
 

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