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00:00
Yeah, because I didn't understand what he's asking :D
I mean what kind of input/output he was asking.
that's pretty weird
@BlueMonday obviously a network and what it returns
Oh. :D
Antti, let the man learn:P
communication is key
one misplaced parenthesis
lambda network: (lambda result: ([result[len(v)].add(k) for (k, v) in network.items()], [result[i] for i in range(1, len(network))]) and dict(result))(__import__('collections').defaultdict(set))
00:04
what is that....
why is that on my screen
it's a Fabergé brain bomb
I don't scroll up on Saturday....so if I missed context, I just try to figure it out. :P
even nicer than my original oneliner for Blue's question from yesterday
I've read over my code three times now, I can't find anything wrong but if another set of eyes wants to take a look at it I put it on pastebin for an hour

http://pastebin.com/PkhiUEdU
00:05
yesterday, by Andras Deak
checkfun = lambda check: all(all(pair in network or pair[::-1] in network for pair in ((cname,name) for name in {name for pairs in network for name in pairs if name!=cname})) for cname in check)
user6568562
F*ck new scriptwriters and their lazy storytelling
user6568562
I said it
@Andras Yeah, I still couldn't figure out.
@BlueMonday don't worry about it (as I said yesterday too)
00:06
it's probably doable much more easily, I just wanted to demonstrate the pointlessness of onelining it
@ZachThompson "# Establishes the ring of slaves", dude that's rough;D
it's master.py hahaha
My partner's program is Slave.cpp
you must make a great pair
we didn't choose the names, the professor did haha
:)
that's exactly how slavery works
00:11
There's been an unspoken awkwardness about the whole thing.
I'm sure your teacher is all ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) about it
user6568562
Murphy's law is the best a statistically average person can hope for
00:15
cbg
user6568562
And just saying, but there must be a difference between being whipped in some sh*t plant and studying CS
user6568562
Yo JRichard
Honestly, it hasn't been awkward working with them, they're great people and I love them to death.
don't do that, it'll put you in jail
It's probably just been awkward on my end since I'm hyper-aware of these sorts of things as a minority myself.
00:16
Lol.
In case the me being a minority thing struck anyone as odd, I'm as straight as a circle.
user6568562
Hey @Martijn I'm loving the Python's history blog, it would've taken me too long to figure out its historic importance
@ZachThompson I mean this in the best way: I don't think anybody cares:)
I would hope not.
@randomhopeful time to stalk Guido, eh?:D
user6568562
00:19
@AndrasDeak It was a strict eventuality anyway : D
user6568562
But really I dig his genuine modesty. The guy is an unmemed genius
the largest geniuses are annoyingly modest
not all of them, but a lot
with great intelligence comes great humility or something
FYI - SO chat never deletes anything. Ever. It's public forever. The previous chunk of the conversation was moved to the knives, but not actually deleted (it can't be deleted). So, let's just all be careful how we say things. Things can be taken in to different contexts very easily, and I think we should be more aware and mindful of that.
Idk man, there's this 19 year old that's gonna graduate with me and he's the most stuck-up asshole I've ever met. He's also one of the smartest kids I've ever met and it just makes him super condescending to everyone around him.
user6568562
@AndrasDeak Linus seems to be an exception
user6568562
00:21
It's not that he's not modest, but he really is comfortable being smarter than all of us
@ZachThompson a really smart coursemate is not a genius, it's just an egocentric asshole who happens to be smart
genuine geniuses don't need to tread on others to be aware of their worth
... though that chunk now looks worse because it is out of context in the knives :D
user6568562
@idjaw Then I move forward the plan to rename SOPython trash to : The rotating knives of perseverance
@AnttiHaapala If there is more that can be thrown there go ahead. 😀
here is an idea... select * from room6 :P
00:23
I would say you should move more messages into the knives in order to give it some context...
That does look bad
Meh, it can't be OHMYGODTHAT'SBAD
Much better
naah it didn't wrok properly, they're now out of order :D
damnit
???
no they're not
00:24
yes they are
The one above the "what makes it super awkward..." gives it the context it needed.
So I think it's okay
user6568562
I really doubt SOPython could be labelled as racist
user6568562
Snobbish to the lazy, maybe and rightfully so
user6568562
But not racist
00:25
I have so many wrong responses to that
write them down in your diary 😛
let's not play with the knives again
then burn it
user6568562
@AndrasDeak :D Maybe I should add in contrast to the rest of the Internet, then
... if PHP were an ethnicity...
user6568562
00:27
Well thank God it's just yet another manifestation of the masses to prefer mediocrity over anything else
user6568562
Tchousse @Zach
user6568562
Man, stock, prices and customers. Why does it have to require so much research
user6568562
It's crazy
you can already stop at "stock"
I know a few areas of stochastical differential equations that could keep you occupied research-wise :D
user6568562
00:30
Oh man, my heart can hardly take new surprises anymore
user6568562
And even the mentioned three aren't sufficient anymore. User want graphs and customized management tips
user6568562
Pen and paper aren't enough, all of a sudden
Can I ask what was the official cause for sending them to the knives? Didn't mean to or think that I had broken any rules...
Sep 28 at 22:35, by Andras Deak
users are the worst
@ZachThompson oh, nothing along those lines
it's just that this is an entirely public place, and it's better not to have potentially offensive material around
user6568562
@AndrasDeak Amen ** amen to that
00:32
Understood.
@ZachThompson yep..what Andras said...not necessarily you breaking the rules. It was the content
definitely not you breaking the rules. (Right?)
I gotcha, sorry I was just trying to flow with the conversation
user6568562
+ The cringe potential, I suppose
yeah it's cool. We'll just leave it where it is 😀
00:33
yup ^
What emoji was that supposed to be, I just see the binary representation box
smiley face
and just to reiterate what @idjaw said, @Zach, this is a fully public forum of communication, freely readable by anybody, for min(all eternity,life of SO), and indexed by google
which one should never forget:)
yeah. It's one of the cruddy things here...sometimes one might forget that, and be very regretful later, because it's stuck in the SO data machine.
00:35
Alright, I am off to bed, good night.
cheers @BlueMonday
Anyway... I've been learning to sing the lord's prayer in Swahili :P
@BlueMonday good night
user6568562
Laters Blue
Rubarb Blue
00:36
@AndrasDeak and if it is indexed by Google, that means it is scraped by those cheesy fake sites that rip SO content
:P
Or they just rip it straight from SO
whichever it is hehe
I'd be surprised if any of the fake SO sites had a fake SO chat feature:D
user6568562
@idjaw True
@AndrasDeak good point
user6568562
Imagine if one of us got to be the next tech billionnaire
hi @PhilipKirkbride :)
welcome
user6568562
00:36
Some nosy journalist would dig it up and yell : "You were there and you did nothing !"
cabbage philip
user6568562
But now, we have legal ground that we did undertake the legal possible measures
My defense against any of that is a deadly mixture of deadpan humour with genuine cultural ignorance.
user6568562
I expect to be mentioned in the Nobel Prize of peace speech, you guys
user6568562
00:38
@AndrasDeak AND several billion dollars
@PhilipKirkbride neat! 😀 We come from the same place
@PhilipKirkbride you can edit/delete your messages in the two minutes after posting:)
\o/
@idjaw talk about perky
I'm always perky no...no I'm not
00:39
true false
HA!
....
hehe
@idjaw nice I move on tuesday!
away?
away?:D
haha
:P
00:40
natural reaction to all that perk
Small town Ontario for job
ah. thought maybe you were running away from the Winter
user6568562
By the way, idjaw. Heating electricity bills must be insane
in the winter, they can get pricey, yes.
especially if you have a house. More to heat
user6568562
00:41
Man
so, it pays to be homeless?
Quebec isn't that bad
^^ relatively, yes. That is true
Ontario pays double per kwh
perk of being in Quebec
:)
00:42
and NY and some surrounding states have even higher than Ontario. So Quebec is actually cheaper despite coldness.
A Queperk, from here on out
2
user6568562
Haha, nice :D
we can coin that here. That is fine.
user6568562
But it's usually below freezing temperatures in Quebec during winter
00:44
freezing temperature means it's warm out
where is everyone else
weekends are slow
user6568562
I remember scary stories about body fluids freezing. That gotta be painful
and it's 2 AM here and for most of the guys on the original continent
haha...the myths heard around the world about Canadian winters
Just tested my code with another group, we've confirmed mine works flawlessly. This is definitely an issue on my partner's end
00:45
@randomhopeful only for a short while
user6568562
:D I guess so
user6568562
@ZachThompson You got your deposition worked out, man. That's the best you can hope for
user6568562
01:00
Hey @PM2 [ : ! I thin you already know this version, but it's too beautiful to not mention youtube.com/watch?v=TDfKRDYE3w0
user6568562
By the way, the oboe is wayyyyy too hard
@randomhopeful I have spent the last 15 minutes trying to figure out what you meant by deposition
user6568562
@ZachThompson You know, your version of events
user6568562
@ZachThompson Your statement on whose responsibility it is
user6568562
01:12
Good night everybody !
night @randomhopeful
rhubarb
@randomhopeful stupid Canadians, use electricity for heating
yeah stupid Canadians
wait a minute
hey!
shakes fist
Found the French Canadian
01:45
In Python 2.6.8 at work, I found a case where
>>> id(type(obj).method) == id(ClassName.method)
True
>>> type(obj).method is ClassName.method
False
I was in the debugger.
I was dealing with an error that I believed to be related to attempting to pickle bound methods.
good night
If anyone has any bright ideas about my code contradiction, I'd like to hear it.
13
Q: Why do different methods of same object have the same `id`?

TimurI thought, that is operator checks the objects id's equality. But it doesn't seem so. >>> class A(object): ... def f(): return 1 ... def g(): return 2 ... >>> a = A() >>> a.f is a.g False >>> id(a.f) == id(a.g) True

see also (although I'm unsure about this one):
>>> id((1,2,3))
140246886864576
>>> id((3,4,5))
140246886864576
(removed)
(moved)
01:54
In my case, they were unbound methods, but the principle might be the same. Thanks.
We were doing funky things with decorators.
I solved my main problem, but this detail has been bothering me, and I think that linked answer may contain the answer. Thank you @AndrasDeak.
>>> class Foo:
...     def bar(self): pass
...
>>> obj = Foo()
>>> id(type(obj).bar), id(Foo.bar)
(140501695497216, 140501695497216)
>>> um1 = type(obj).bar
>>> id(um1)
140501695497216
>>> um2 = Foo.bar
>>> id(um2)
140501695497216
>>> um1 is um2
True
Python 3.5 ^^^^
@AaronHall no worries, professor
>>> id([1,2,3]) == id([3,4,5])
True
3.5.2 ^
you probably have to lower your expectations when it comes to id(), at least in an interactive session
02:19
I wonder if someone is kind enough to look at a question of mine? Well, it got downvoted for no reason, when I properly presented my intention and my Python code. I am not a programmer, but I somehow needed to use C#, PHP, MySQL and even Python to achieve my PhD objectives. Being downvoted just isn't helpful at all without telling me what went wrong with my question.
Welcome, and please read the room rules. In particular, if your question is new, you shouldn't link it here.
Furthermore, if your question is badly formed or off-topic, it would probably entail some more downvotes for you, so do read the rules first.
It was posted about 1-2 hours ago, so I supposed it's still new
If you read the rules, you'll be able to tell.
Yeah I am reading it now Andras. Thanks.
@Shyuan Don't feel offended by 1 downvote. I posted a self-answer to be used by the community as a duplicate that got two downvotes. It happens. You actually have a lot of comments and someone actually gave you an answer
You can't please everyone 😀.
02:22
And leaving a snarky comment complaining of downvotes won't ever help
if anything, it will lead to more downvotes
oh yeah....that doesn't help. Especially since it's anonymous, it pushes people to be "snarky" back by downvoting or leaving the downvote
@idjaw @AndrasDeak I was just a little upset because I don't see the problem with my question since I formatted it well and explained it thoroughly rather than asking for an answer without showing codes. But thanks for letting me know, can I delete the comments though?
@Shyuan You can only delete your own comments
you can, anytime
Yep, that's what I meant.
Thanks for reminding.
02:24
you can still try asking politely whether someone can tell you how you can improve your question, but I don't think that really leads anywhere either
They gave me some hints, so I will try my best.
I understand your frustration, of course:)
Just feel like programming isn't something for me, though Python is kinda interesting comparing to C# and PHP
Yeah. It sucks. Not trying to downplay you being annoyed. But, at the same time, don't take those downvotes personally.
Alright. Time for me to go play in the ritual of hockey.
rbrb :)
and I'm off to sleep
rhubarb
02:27
cheers
@idjaw @AndrasDeak Thanks guys.
:)
np @Shyuan
no worries, take care
I forgot, unbound methods were different from functions in Python 2. So it was creating a new object separately each time, using the same spot in memory.
@AaronHall I think it's a stronger point that even completely different objects can have the same id in the interactive shell
see my listy example
the bottom line should be that id() is not to be trusted, after all we have is for a reason (and one obvious way etc etc)
Anyway, I really have to go. Bye.
02:34
I thought you could never delete things from here (from earlier conversation)
only in the 2 minutes after posting, there you have an edit/delete window for your own messages
and moderators can edit/delete posts whenever they feel it's necessary (but usually don't)
you can flag your own messages for deletion by a mod with a custom flag, if it's necessary, but you have to have a convincing reason for them to go along with it
@AndrasDeak They're not really any different. Lists are just arrays of pointers.
if you say so
In Python 3:
>>> id(type(obj).bar) == id(Foo.bar)
True
>>> type(obj).bar is Foo.bar
True
 
2 hours later…
05:03
I am getting this error
error: command 'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\\VC\\BIN\\cl.exe' failed with exit status 4
05:55
Sunday Morning and I found this beautiful song
hello to you too @thefourtheye
 
3 hours later…
08:51
cbg
cbg all
09:09
7 hours ago, Shyuan asked the room if we could kindly take a look at their recent question. However, they weren't asking for an answer to that question, they were asking for meta-comments. As far as I'm concerned, that's perfectly ok to do that for new questions, as long as it isn't a ploy to get us to work on answering the question itself. Would anyone (especially other ROs) like to comment on that?
09:42
Reasons to use Arch Linux #2002: Python 3 is the default and only version of python installed.
morning guys
anyone here use apache toree before?
cabbage
hello
@Ming Ask directly. See our rules here sopython.com/chatroom :)
sry my bad.
09:56
10:22
@Ming The reason we discourage the asking of "Has anyone used X" or "Can someone help me with X" type questions is that we have found that such questions are often used by help vampires to select and latch onto a victim. So if you don't want to be perceived as a HV, don't ask questions like that.
10:50
cbg
@PM2Ring it is ok, and the sopython says: "do not link to your new questions", and they didn't
@AnttiHaapala True. I think we should maybe modify the rules to indicate that it's ok to solicit meta-comments about any question, including your own fresh question. But of course, that would have to be said in a way that people will know what the yam we mean by a meta-comment. :) Maybe this should be a topic for a room meeting, but at this stage I just want to get some feedback from ROs and other room regulars.
iirc it was discussed before in github
FWIW I did read the question and give some advice based on the little I could determine
it just occurred to me
I found the post long and tedious to read, so I didn't try to mindread the downvoter:P
(very brief cbg)
11:01
that we could have a bot that would greet each entering user exactly once with "cbg @NewUser - welcome to the Python room. Please read room rules at ...."
could keep track of all users who have ever been seen in the room
that assumes that users read messages
they will, if highlighted
if they do something against the rules after that in the 3 minutes we can kick them, so that they will have time to read the rules :d
just a suggestion
I am not sure how noisy such a bot woul dbe
@AnttiHaapala Ah, so it was. I'd forgotten about that. :)
would it greet each lurker, or wait for some notification that someone would type...
@AnttiHaapala I wouldn't mind that, but I know that some ROs are extremely against having active bots posting here. But I guess it should be ok if the bot waited for the new person to de-lurk. We do get rather a lot of lurkers passing by that never get around to posting.
11:13
@AnttiHaapala Kevin's version of rabbit would support that easily enough - however, I feel the momentum on that recently may have waned somewhat...
Makefiles are very very very hard to debug :-/
@thefourtheye bah... I always get it right in the first place so they don't need debugging - get your act together puppy :p
(or... maybe I'm confusing that with - they don't need debugging because I can't remember the last time I had to write one? umm....)
user6568562
Cabbage, everyone
@JonClements All I am trying to do is to find if an executable is there in the path. The syntax is too difficult :'(
@random cbg
11:21
Hi @randomhopeful I'm more into the early Pink Floyd stuff, but I didn't mind that Dave Gilmour clip you linked.
Talking about Pink Floyd - I reckon Alpha Blondie's remake of "Wish you were here" was awesome and possibly better than the original... runs and hides...
user6568562
Eyo Jon [
user6568562
Hey PM2, I love PF's early stuff as well
user6568562
Didn't know about Alpha Blondie's remake. I'l definitely check it out :D
I haven't had a weekend this week
worked on Sunday and Saturday
:feelsbadman:
11:24
@randomhopeful this is a fairly good quality link... youtube.com/watch?v=bsoiupLME-w
I just noticed a new question on Abstract Base Classes from a 9k user. Unfortunately, the question is tagged python-2.7, so I guess Antti won't be interested. ;) stackoverflow.com/questions/40703430/…
hi guys
Another satisfied recipient of the mighty Mjölnir :)
Thank you very much, that answered my question — Ben Dent 5 mins ago
Ah, So you've got dem skillz ;)
12:01
I've only ever had one OP complain about my dupe-hammering. And one who simply un-hammered it himself. :)
I had a user who rudely commented on the closing. I made him understand the other answer, The user then apologized for both his actions.
Sometimes a polite (but correct) comment does make the other user understand that the dupe target is a better post. A similar incident happened here
@BhargavRao Nice response from mhawke there, and that answer is brief but ok, so I gave him a vote to push the answer's score up to a nice round number. :)
Haha, I had pushed it to a nice "odd" off-by-one number ;)
12:38
Wow. Why would someone join SO & then not ask a question or answer one for 20 months? Strange. But it looks like they know what they're talking about: stackoverflow.com/a/40704039/4014959
Hmm, there might be a deleted answer. We never know.
@PM2Ring I know some of those words
@BhargavRao You might Tuesday night? :p
Apr 13 '15 at 20:36, by Jon Clements
@BhargavRao don't count your chickens etc...
When I had told you that :D
@BhargavRao Good point. Or maybe even a deleted question, but I get the feeling that that poster isn't the sort to ask crappy questions.
12:46
@PM2Ring Good answer on a bad question that was later deleted? Or a good question that was abandoned? .... Lot's of possibilities. ;)
@BhargavRao or if you want to be really really paranoid - it could be a sleeper sock! :p
Haha, That's going too far ;)
@JonClements Now I have an image of a stealthy muppet in my head. :)
You're welcome. No need to thank me... :)
Speaking of muppets, here's The Electric Mayhem performing the Rolling Stone's classic Stray Cat Blues
13:03
can I chain together functions in Python like in Haskell?
Not quite, since Python's syntax is a little different to Haskell's. :) So the resulting chained function is a little inefficient. FWIW, I recently saw a question discussing the speeds of various forms of chained function in Python. Give me a minute... Here we go:
1
Q: python speed composed functions

ApllnI'd like to understand why I get the speed differences that I see when I compose functions in different ways. I'm mostly interested in understanding why case (1) is faster than case (2). Thanks! import math from time import time def f(x): return 2*x def g(x): return x*x def h(x): r...

thanks
13:21
I guess you could do this, if you want:
def chain_funcs(*funcs, arg):
    x = arg
    for f in funcs:
        x = f(x)
    return x

print(chain_funcs(lambda x: 10*x, lambda x: x+3, lambda x: x / 2, arg=5))
#output
26.5
yeah but that's not very cute
No, and it gets even uglier if the functions take multiple args.
Could check out the functoolz lib I guess...
There's no way in Python to do it efficiently, so if possible try to compose the functions yourself if you want maximum efficiency. As the speed tests in that linked question show, each additional level of function call or object creation has a noticeable impact on the speed.
user6568562
@JonClements This is actually awesome :D I dig it a lot
13:33
@JonClements toolz.readthedocs.io/en/latest/api.html#toolz.functoolz.compose Compose functions to operate in series.
@BlueMonday you're a day early? :p
Morning
It's Monday here...
@PM2 ruin my fun why don't ya? :(
13:36
:)
Umm... what are they trying to do here I wonder: stackoverflow.com/questions/40704649/…
How you all doing though
Good thanks - how's yourself?
Good, just woke up, about to make myself a coffee and try to finish my homework.
@JonClements JS developer :D
13:41
Hehe, An NAA pinging davidism stackoverflow.com/a/40704617/4099593 :D
> Only Python 2. The 3 is just not pragmatic enough. They just killed print operator the powerest feature of python being laconic. The only thing I miss from Python 3 is catching exception thrown from exception handler, python 2 fails here.
pass me a gun so I can shoot myself
13:57
@PM2Ring ahh - good catch on the complex thing there :)

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