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12:03
right now I'm trying to figure out if it is possible to turn off cortana after the last update
which is seeming to be a no.....
It's the beginning of a new school year and I think we are going to be seeing a whole slew of "how do I ask user for input" aka use a while loop. We should probably get a canon dupe (if we don't have one already). I suggest this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/23294658/…
@poke yes and Intel/AMD are the publishers of Windows.
@JGreenwell Oh perfect! Nevermind then.
Apple keynote stream
> Requirements: Live streaming uses Appleā€™s HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) technology. HLS requires an iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch with Safari on iOS 7.0 or later, a Mac with Safari 6.0.5 or later on OS X v10.8.5 or later, or a PC with Microsoft Edge on Windows 10.
12:06
SOPy wiki is always open on my screen in Aug-Oct: just waiting for the dupes to appear
user input, caesar cipher,
hmm what else
@khajvah not sure Windows 7 is going to stop working
@JGreenwell We should probably introduce a "homework" tag for Eternal September
cabbage
@NinjaPuppy :/
12:07
don't we already have a meta (like main meta I think) post about it?
@RobertGrant If I had windows 7 license and bought a new hardware, I wouldn't be able to install it
I know once @Antti and I spent a little time being evil writing the most convoluted (but functional) solutions to some questions :)
@NinjaPuppy also: "lacks minimal understanding" :/
;(;(;(
@JGreenwell not on SO - no way! I mean on sopy for classification
I miss the old good times
12:08
let's revolt and bring back "OP is a doodyhead" reasons
@AndrasDeak First -1 from me :)
@NinjaPuppy I got -4 on my recent functional-but-convoluted answer :(
the revolt has collapsed
12:09
that's not a bad idea; just have a collection of the common 1st year homework problems so linking to cannon is easy
@JGreenwell that's what I'm thinking - sopy allows searching by tags and text
@khajvah there'll be a huge outcry, then MS will reverse their position. See also XBone being bundled with Kinect, etc etc
so let's just put some homework tags on the ones... then it's even easier to identify them, than by trying to remember what search will actually bring back the question we know is there but haven't bookmarked
@AnttiHaapala You already suggested me like load all the data in memory and use Pool.map function to supply each file from a file list to a specific function.
@NinjaPuppy oh you're suggesting tagging the question with homework?
12:11
nvrmind - on SOPY that would be nice
@idjaw no - let's just make it clear - I'm talking about sopy here - not SO
But that particular function should write the processed data to a file exists on the disk.
still it's worth to use multiprocessing module?
Because I read something like, "For CPU bound operations, use multiprocessing and for i/o bound operations, use threading"
@NinjaPuppy actually I didn't mean it to be ad hominem, I'd be content with "this question is entirely scatological whatsoever" ;)
@NinjaPuppy Tagging sopy wiki questions with homework would help narrow it down :)
@idjaw that's what I was saying... sheesh
I'm going to be having one of those days it seems
12:14
@NinjaPuppy I got that!
maybe @idjaw is having one of those days:P
I always have one of those days
Maybe today is just one of those days. It's a universe problem. THANKS UNIVERSE
12:15
I should have taken extra garlic at lunchtime
output (Hello World), variable assignment/access, and input are the first weeks lessons btw. (sometimes types are also covered) @idjaw - since you were trying to figure it out
Hey guys, so I need to tag some website called sopy's wiki homework questions with a homework tag, how do I do that? It's for uni.
the input with while loop is like week 3
@AnttiHaapala with you never can tell if you're being metaphorical
@JGreenwell which week is eval?
oh jeez...that Robert Grant guy is back with his questions
12:16
@AndrasDeak now I am literally metaphorical.
@idjaw I thought this was somewhere where people helped people. Are you now saying that it isn't?
@AndrasDeak week one in my class: really quick slide that says "IF I SEE EVAL I WILL MARK THE ASSIGNMENT AS A 0"
'nuth said
wait wait wait. If you write that data up on sopy, we can have a ........ week reference.

(ā€¢_ā€¢)
( ā€¢_ā€¢)>āŒā– -ā– 
(āŒā– _ā– )
Why do you have three heads?
12:18
I have snowman syndrome?
you saw nothing
I thought it was a naked snowman tbf. Sort of Total Recall snowman.
he's an alien?! I knew it!
@AndrasDeak WHY DO YOU HATE MONTHS? I BAN YOU NOW.
I can't believe I prejudiced someone with snowman syndrome. Tristan would be so ashamed of me.
@RobertGrant wut?:D
@Ffisegydd I resent your ableism
I should really be grading mid-term-ish thingies:/
hope my lunch never ends
12:20
@AndrasDeak context
multi-choice at least I hope @AndrasDeak
@RobertGrant oh, cock...crockgate, again?
@JGreenwell nope
Hurray, grading mid-term-ish essays/proof/etc is always a joy
BBQ at work today. OMNOMNOM.
this is the third day of the semester, so mid term is bit of a stretch though...but I don't know of a better term
we made poor freshmen write a test to see how they're doing with maths:)
12:23
oh, I've used that one before - just once cause it got ugly
like really ugly
ugly as in "let go of me, fools, I really want to jump" ugly?
@RobertGrant ^^
there may have been a crack on my desk that seemed to match the size and shape of my head
@JGreenwell :D
12:26
@AndrasDeak lol. some mechanical engineering students got 0 points from a math exam at uni oulu, even though 25 % of the points questions were yes-no questions (6 of them), and wrong answers were not penalized.
haha:D
Time to dockerise my mean app #hipster
there senior CS fellow students who "hate math"
when I ask them, why are you studying CS, they say "dunno"
most CS students hate math
@khajvah don't both programmers and mathematicians look down on CS guys?:P
12:27
that's sad actually, you'd get to enrol in there if a) you passed highschool, b) you could write your name in the papers.
@JGreenwell sad
it's the sad intersection of the family Venn diagram, they seem to think
engineering students now that is a different story
isn't CS more about math than engineering?
at least theoretically
depends on your focus
12:28
the fact that it's "theoretically" means it's math:P
@khajvah it is more about math than about engineering, yes
and just cause you need it doesn't mean you like it - these are different things (I hate wed-design but I ended up learning it cause I needed it)
engineering is about math as well, but applied so
like, my friend went to study math major
12:29
Well, I had a physics course mate for years who hated physics, especially experiments:D
and on one lecture the teacher presented a proof that there necessarily needs to be a zero in real numbers
ended up doing economics and management instead
@AnttiHaapala your math education sounds weird
@AndrasDeak or something like that
ah OK:P
anecdata about math education in Finland;)
the point is that in engineering you do not need to prove the elementary school math again.
12:32
unless they lied to you and there's nobody you can trust
@AnttiHaapala My degree is called "computational science" but we still touched sets/fields/rings and such stuff
@khajvah CS should be heavily discrete math
@khajvah you're not an engineer.
which is, as it happens, sets, fields, rings, graphs
my math education is split between three universities - I still like applied math it just so happens that I can apply a bit more then most when it comes to certain fields ;P
^ those fields are discrete math and linear algebra
12:33
@AndrasDeak my degree is not computer science. It's computational science
sometimes calc but not often
I don't care how complex numbers work and so on, they just work, ok.
more differential equations, statistics
not my headache :P
@khajvah ah I didn't know there's a difference
I always read CS as computational science
you know, since "science" is a pretty broad term:P
12:34
I like teaching engineers cause you can easily teach calculus by making a problem become an application problem - i.e. finding limits and derivatives of hydrolic systems makes sense to them
@AnttiHaapala as long as you don't want to rotate something using quaternions, right?:P
mostly similar but we concentrate on numerical computations in the end
@AndrasDeak well s/how/why/
or sth :D
I could care about it, but I've got other headaches
like... how to make real stuff working today.
12:36
granted every once in a while I start feeling cocky - esp. the way freshman are in awe - so I just come here and wait for Fizzy or DSM to do something that reminds me of my place (occasionally Antti ;)
@JGreenwell This was largely my problem when i was doing maths for compsci - the maths courses and compsci courses were completely divorced for each other, so I never got to the '...and this is what you use it for' bit, so I just couldn't see the point of a lot of the maths.
"there necessarily needs to be a zero in real numbers". I'm curious what the proof of this is, besides "well if we didn't have it, what would go on the tick mark between -1 and 1 on the number line?"
If it had been the 'we want to do this cool thing in code, but you don't yet know the maths for it', then that would have been totally fine.
@Withnail I find conceptual thinkers rare so I always try and move to application - but then I am not a conceptual thinker so this could be bias - and it seems to work
@Kevin idk, I've never studied non-applied maths at the uni
12:38
@Kevin why I find that odd is that usually reals are defined by the extension of natural -> integer -> rational numbers, all of which have an additive and multiplicative zero element
@Kevin should be there by definition
that last bit sounds dubious, but you know what I mean
additive zero element, there
axiom - find the axiom and proof done
Axiom of Choice, I choose you! GO!
If by real numbers you mean the field of real numbers, there has to be a 0 by the definition of a field
12:40
Every time I try to look up the Axiom of Choice, I get a headache.
@khajvah the proof would mean proving that it's a field
it's not a field by definition nor by construction
@AndrasDeak well the question is "why should 0 be there?", so the question has to include what it means by "real numbers" just to have something begin with
discrete math is fun to use in an applied setting (even if it is mostly me just showing stuff and saying "when you get better you can do ...") as you get to move to machine learning and AI - other stuff too I just find people hear those two and sit up straighter
Anyone used urwid before?
Ok, I looked up construction of real numbers, and it says, "A model for the real number system consists of a set R, two distinct elements 0 and 1 of R [...]", so hey, we proved 0 is a real, great job team
12:42
@JGreenwell discrete maths (the term) has always made me chuckle for some sad reason. We need a term "MATHS IN YO FACE MAN!" thing
but that's not how you'd spell that, is it?:P
Discreet math: the math that quietly, without fuss or expectation of reward, keeps bridges from collapsing every day.
5
one of the scientific pitfalls in English
damn Antti, this was a weird question
12:44
that probably possibly wasn't the question
or it was a "muddy question" that was just meant to spark discussion and the correct model of, logical, thinking - with no real focus on getting an actual answer
close it as unclear what you are asking
metaproblem: construct a construction of the reals where the existence of zero isn't immediately self-evident.
@Kevin they should be crappy reals
12:53
@idjaw "I always have one of those days" Here's a relevant Sam Fish song for you: Today's My Day
another joke fail for the puppy :(
your last joke made me chuckle
you just got Kevin'd afterwards
@JGreenwell perhaps :D
Morning cabbage.
Hello
13:03
@JGreenwell Good humourists borrow. Great humourists are Kevin.
Good morning cabbages
cabbages to both of ya
@RobertGrant Damn that Kevin - damn him to Hades! (or something)
Dammit Kevin
Hades seems like one of the less unpleasant afterlives. Can I be in the one ruled by James Woods?
13:12
Sure... I guess... didn't realise you were so masochistic though...
DSM
DSM
Morning firm's-database-is-down cabbage!
Cabbage
What did you do break?
^ or "what did you not prevent the users from breaking?"
DSM
DSM
Nothing, I swear! I'm just a client of these services, not a provider.. plus it means I can concentrate on some coding, so to be honest, I'm not entirely opposed..
This legacy class contains an attribute widgets and an attribute widget_list. This displeases me greatly.
DSM
DSM
13:20
Rename one of them to "dummy" and the other one to "foo". Then no one will confuse them.
Ah, one is commented with #don't use this, it's for serialization. Ok then. Chalking this up to "unfortunately necessary hack" rather than incompetence.
I once had a program I was developing break and after digging through a ton of legacy code found the problem: an attribute had been renamed by another programmer to "changing_to_see_if_it_breaks_anything"....it did
DSM
DSM
At least the motive for the change wasn't ambiguous..
I am not here to correct the WTFs. I will permit them pass over me and through me. And when they have gone past I will turn the inner eye to see their path.
@Kevin Fair enough. They could've used a better name, eg serialized_widgets, but I guess widget_list seemed obvious to them at the time. And naming things is hard.
13:27
and screw whoever else is going to look at your code anyway
serves them right for getting your job
Possibly at one time the serialization was used to present data to the user, in which case it makes sense to have "nice" names for serializable attributes that don't mention the word "serialized" because users don't know what that means
@AndrasDeak you do know that developers reuse other co-workers code a lot, right? ;)
self.put_your_stuff_here_dear_user = None
@JGreenwell bah, humbug
it must suck:P
A good friend of mine popped back archive storage boxes he was keeping for me... finally getting to sorting 'em out
Apr 11 at 8:41, by PM 2Ring
@Ilja Sadly, we don't have "OP has CHDS" as a close reason.
13:36
What is CHDS?
congenital heart defect syndrome? Center for Homeland Defense and Security ?
hmm...don't know whether to be happy or sad about for profit schools closing after the accreditation pulling - good cause they are horrible but I feel bad for students who were tricked and now are stuck
DSM
DSM
[Enter CHDS into the search box-- it's somewhat indelicate..]
@JGreenwell they had a (costly) lesson...
@bereal Click on my link & find out. :)
@NinjaPuppy aww jon's puppyhood album.
DSM
DSM
I have no objection to for-profit schools in principle, as I have no objection to for-profit grocery stores. Any individual company could provide value or not.
CHDS is Center for Homeland Defense and Security in US at least and they do support a bunch of network security, cryptology, and other studies - even publications from Professors/Graduate students at the Naval Academy and other military schools - but I don't think that was what PM2 was talking about
@DSM like intellipaat
One of the better programmers I know went to ITT Tech and hates it. I suspect his current (crappy) job stems from not being able to answer academic interview questions.
13:41
> CHDS = Coital Hint Deficit Syndrome.
ah that was it :d
also known as NFCD.
Here's some cool Canadian blues: Ice Queen by Sue Foley.
> National Feral Cat Day
we get transfers from ITT and its hard enough to tell them we wouldn't accept many of their credits. A special condition had to be created to accept any of them due to the just horrible level of teaching that exists there and this was before accreditation loss - no idea how that is going to work now.
CHD = NFC
13:43
@DSM however, education is a fundamental need - as is health etc...
there's a really fine balance between a government running things and a private company doing it
@PM2Ring I remember now:D
DSM
DSM
@NinjaPuppy: as is food, and it's far more fundamental, and yet I don't mind grocers.
I have trouble thinking of a more fundamental need than food, and it's a private industry in the US. Although hugely subsidized.
user559633
Water :)
Food's cheap and not as highly differentiated in quality as education
13:46
It's still not free.
INTERNET
j0h
j0h
is for porn
user559633
Rare animes
INTERNET with rare anime porn
13:46
I liked Aldnoah.Zero, be tee dubs
Government provided waifus.
(please don't flag out of context:P)
Almost zero fanservice, cool series, etc
@DSM yeah... don't exactly want to bring food stamps back, thanks :)
user559633
I watch sponge bob with subtitles. It's how the creators meant for it to be shared.
DSM
DSM
13:47
People have seriously made a case that internet access is a fundamental right, which seems to imply a corresponding responsibility on the part of other people to work on it. I think the whole approach is silly.
@DSM ask the Finn about that
Someone who enters the room atm, will be like, wth are these guys talking bout
I'm fairly certain that "h" would be an "f";)
@BhargavRao that's normal I'd have thought :p
user559633
13:48
@BhargavRao I just entered, pre-coffee, thought that for a second
I just have a grump with companies that make profits from sub-standard services (look at transport in the UK), whereby the only reason they can exist is the government paying to subsidise it anyway.
See, I told ya guys!
user559633
I love the case that "access to the internet is a fundamental right because jobs/information", but I think that's a perspective thing. It's like pretending facebook likes have value or that wikipedia is in any way comparable to actual textbooks.
DSM
DSM
I'm perfectly happy to end corporate welfare and government handouts to business; I see no reason people should be able to talk the government into writing a cheque to them via their company, and to subsidize their poor decisionmaking.
@AndrasDeak I do not want rare anime porn, nor well-done anime porn.
13:50
@NinjaPuppy Cable Companies are the US analogy. Comcast is one of the worst behaved public facing companies.
if anyone can tell me how I can get a job where I can tax payers money to pay for my stuff and then keep the profit to myself - please let me know!
@DSM no, the thing is actually that since all services are in the internet, and there will not be any other way of using these services, then people need an internet access one way or the other to be able to actually enjoy their constitutional rights.
user559633
:( I want a government loan for TristanCorp.
@PM2Ring something something generation gap ;D
(I don't want any of it, either)
user559633
@PM2Ring What about medium or blue-rare?
DSM
DSM
13:51
@AnttiHaapala: it sounds like you know as much about the Canadian conversation about the right to internet service as I know about the Finnish one.
@AndrasDeak just put some cockateils on your head and post a photo - you'll be fine! :p
user559633
I'm actually for removing almost all government subsidies and welfare in its current form here in the US.
the truth, however, is that almost everyone has a service whose level is above the "basic right" and whose price is "below the price" that one needs to pay for the basic
@DSM I thought you were talking about the idea in general :d
@tristan you should, and replace them with the European forms of subsidies and welfare :P
user559633
@AnttiHaapala That's even worse. Godspeed Europe, I wish you the best in the coming decade.
@tristan we still love you
13:53
@NinjaPuppy heh, I'd rather let that honor belong solely to PM:D
user559633
@RobertGrant You brexited.
Of course I voted for Brexit! Anything that Trump and Putin want must be a good idea.
@tristan What do you propose replacing them with then?
who's Morgan talking to?
user559633
@RobertGrant That's what's called a genetic argument. A muppet and Putin can want a thing without it being bad.
13:54
Tristan.
DSM
DSM
One pet peeve is when companies manage to privatize the profits but socialize the risk, by convincing the administration of the day that their business is socially important in some way. So until they fail, the owners get money in their pocket. Blek.
@MorganThrapp ooooooh, that one:P
@DSM or just socialise the risk by ignoring the social effects of their business, and hope that the fine isn't too big in 5 years' time
@tristan Seriously?
@MorganThrapp to work in cotton plantations for food?
13:56
Yeah, that was definitely the better model. ;)
gotta go, guys, have fun
@AndrasDeak rbrb
If I thought universal free at the point of use healthcare was a good idea I'd have never campaigned for credit checks in visa applications
DSM
DSM
Wait, what? Are people honestly suggesting the two options are "get written a cheque by the state" and "be enslaved"?
Uh oh, politics chat is happening. Time to Head to the Winchester close the tab until this all blows over. I'll check back in 30.
13:57
@DSM note one can be a private university and still be non-profit - and I have not problem with these (heck, I attended one, also two public ones)
not that you are unaware of this just for-profit != all private
yeah, there is also bad biz :P ;)
user559633
@MorganThrapp I don't think that there should be unemployment tax either (have you ever tried to get it? it's basically a 15% tax on income to subsidize the government agencies and those that can't/won't find work). Wide topic, but for welfare, WIC/food stamps, subsidized/paid rent and car lease, I think that the systematic approach encourages more children born into situations that can't support for meaningful development -- erosion of family. Payouts without responsibility also means... (1/n)
If I reckoned that the wealth we pillaged in the past from developing nations could in some way be put to good use by allowing foreign nationals who want to live in the UK access to some of our social services, I'd never have made Rupert Murdoch my best man
user559633
13:59
... you're supporting segments of the population financially without demanding them to provide anything for that income. It means chunks of a population/city around during the day to commit crimes, create more children to become dependent on the cycle, and feel externalized from society/their greater communities.
@RobertGrant nice

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