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12:00 AM
Alright, I'm off to get a haircut.
Good night all!
 
good night:)
 
12:15 AM
The descent into madness continues: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/330419/…
 
I think we passed madness a while ago
we're moving closer to pure insanity at this point
 
grump grump
@Two-BitAlchemist "what would happen if someone who understood and correctly used Docs.SO wanted to take the initiative and add examples for something they wrote" -- you were asking for documenting your library. From what we've seen so far, using SOD correctly and documenting your library correctly don't mix. You can exemplify the use of your library in many simple ways, and SOD is the right place, and indeed nobody cares who the author is. I mean, you don't even need any rep or tag score for contributing to Docs (do you?). — Andras Deak 1 min ago
 
granted, one needs some rep in a tag to propose it so if it is a total new library tag - it likely won't work (but known, smaller open source could just get some friends and rocket on)
yeah: With at least 1 positively scored answer in tag
 
heh
 
ah, it seems at least one of the answers touches on that
 
12:28 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/38732392/… can't be re-produced. Indentation problem.
 
great, bet someone is going to realize that and some really niche open source project is about to get cited everywhere - free advertising, yo!
 
@AndrasDeak sigh this is going to actually happen, isn't it. People are going to start using SOD to "document" their own projects, and then realise too late that anyone can ruin their documentation, they can't do anything about it, and SE doesn't give a fuck.
 
SE seems to give a large number of fucks, so far.
I mean, considering that near nothing has changed since going public, with all the fires burning. Maybe not fires, it's all down to smoking embers by now:P
 
may we only discuss python here ? :)
 
Some people (*cough* @tristan *cough*) will probably tell you that SE will gladly support those library authors in the future for a nominal fee:P
 
12:37 AM
or am I allowed to rant about other things
 
depends on whether you've read the rules, are willing to throw in a greeting, have an agenda with that rant, etc.
 
I hate dependencies.
 
@qaispak tbh we rarely talk about Python ;-) You may find yourself directed to other rooms if you ask about non-Python programming stuff though.
 
My rant is that I spent years learning how to code and now that I actually want to implement said code I spend 80 percent of the time messing around with the GUI or webpage or whatever
I just wanna code!!!
 
@ZeroPiraeus I don't know why you're saying that. *looks at starboard*
@qaispak what language?:P
 
12:39 AM
but I have to learn a trillion pieces of crap for guis and what not
all languages
web frameworks, languages etc etc
Like today I am doing Java.....
but this happens with everything I touch
 
there are tools like cookiecutter that can fill in a lot of blanks for you
 
Oh, we have no problem with people bitching about Java here ;-)
 
GUIs are non-trivial pieces of software.
 
This morning I thought I should make a snake game. I thought it would take me 30 mins
 
stick to the terminal, and you can even use brainfuck:P
 
12:40 AM
but either I'm crap
or GUI is cra
crap*
 
I usually see people say that python GUIing is a pain in the butt
 
I don't know which GUIing is not a pain in the butt....
 
I can imagine kivy to be really convenient for a snake game, though
 
@AndrasDeak considering I saw this earlier today
in Documentation Public Beta, 6 hours ago, by ndugger
I wish more documentors were active in this room so we could all discuss how it will work moving forward
 
@qaispak me neither, but I don't do GUIs
 
12:42 AM
I'm starting to wonder how many SO users are still giving an f
 
fair enough.
 
well, most of us give it an F
 
@JGreenwell wow, too few "documentors" in the docs room; that's something
 
look at Shog's reply
 
btw, why do people hate on Java here? I thought python and Java were cousins
 
12:43 AM
@JGreenwell I don't wanna:P
@qaispak php gets boring after a while
 
it's the next statement
 
@JGreenwell not a technical barrier; a psychological one:D
 
@qaispak someone lied to you
 
Aren't they both compiled as byte code?
 
Python is a widely used high-level, general-purpose, interpreted, dynamic programming language. Its design philosophy emphasizes code readability, and its syntax allows programmers to express concepts in fewer lines of code than possible in languages such as C++ or Java. The language provides constructs intended to enable clear programs on both a small and large scale. Python supports multiple programming paradigms, including object-oriented, imperative and functional programming or procedural styles. It features a dynamic type system and automatic memory management and has a large and comprehensive...
check the history section
 
12:45 AM
In the end I imagine Shog and bluefeet maintaining SOD
No, wait, who am I kidding. We'll still have a buttload of rep whores:D
 
heh...hehehehe..bwah! Okay when they both start typing on the keyboard that was funny
 
that's when you know Shit Just Got Real
 
I'm kinda shocked at Shog9's "structure doesn't matter" argument. Having spent a year with a language whose documentation's terribleness is largely due to its lack of structure, and come back to Python's wonderful because structured documentation, I find it hard to understand how he could have come to that conclusion.
And for the record I browse good documentation all. the. goddamned. time.
 
Umm...SOD is not documentation
read that answer and the comments
 
I browse it often, it's hard to find the "in" expression with Google for instance
 
12:51 AM
actually, my snippets in the transcript might suffice
SOD is not D, it's Examples
 
Heheheh, SOE would actually be a good acronym.
The Special Operations Executive (SOE) was a British World War II organisation. Following Cabinet approval, it was officially formed by Minister of Economic Warfare Hugh Dalton on 22 July 1940, to conduct espionage, sabotage and reconnaissance in occupied Europe (and later, in occupied Southeast Asia also) against the Axis powers, and to aid local resistance movements. It was initially also involved in the formation of the Auxiliary Units, a top secret "stay-behind" resistance organisation which would have been activated in the event of a German invasion of Britain. Few people were aware of SOE...
 
State sponsored terrorism, basically.
 
also searching for functions that are equivalent to some mathematical function can be difficult
 
I've found SO staff's stance towards the whole ordeal quite off-putting, to be honest
but to quote a man much wiser than me, :shrug:
 
12:53 AM
They've obviously invested a lot in it emotionally.
 
The topics coming up are ridiculous. The official documentation is very clear on the PEP8 style-guide....yet, there is a request to document it here on SO?
but hwhy
 
all the good ones were taken
quick quick, pick a PEP to duplicate on SOD!
 
^ all the easy ones
all the really easy ones
and for hard ones - just copy
I seriously deleted 3/4 of scikit-learn's (SO) docs myself
straight plagiarism
 
you'll get to 3k that way in a jiffy:D
 
yeah, no rep for flagging bad docs and +2 for deleting is it
but +50 for adding '+=' on the second day to addition topic
worse to me is the fact that one of the requested topics is from someone who came here and didn't like that we pointed him to the docs (I want to forecast and plot a timeseries without understanding how broad a topic that is)
 
1:01 AM
heh
> I'll make my own documentation! With blackjack! And hookers!
5
 
chat -> read the docs, question on SO -> closed and told to read the linked docs, proposal on SOD.....aw,hah!
 
@ZeroPiraeus subtle
It's also nice to see a quick recap on Hitler, to be on the safe side:D
 
wow
.....just wow
 
but if a nazi calls you bad...is that a compliment?
 
1:08 AM
Yeah, the "by the way, Hitler was this guy who ..." explainer at the end is hilarious and terrifying in equal measure.
 
If Germany forgot that part of its history.... oy vey iz mir
 
@JGreenwell I don't think they did; it's a Huffington Post post
And neonazis are present everywhere; and you should not expect reasonable behaviour from a neonazi. That's a given.
 
oh, I get that still
 
It's hard to imagine the AfD had forgotten.
 
my statement was more about the Nazis winning 3 seats
 
1:11 AM
anybody here use R?
 
Disclaimer: I don't know German internal affairs to tell if AfD are neonazis; I can just imagine the same thing going on with our own resident far-right-wing assholes, who are neonazis masquerading as persons
 
yes but there is an R chatroom
 
@JGreenwell something something Trump
 
not going to argue that too much
 
I got a reply, but I don't get what they're saying. But as I can't respond with anything constructive, I'll just pass:
@AndrasDeak I feel like you and some others are answering this like it's a Stack Overflow question, rather than a Meta Stack Overflow question. I'm not asking about whether it's good practice to document using Docs. SO, exclusively or otherwise. I'm asking about community rules and preferences around using the tool if you are the author of the package in question. In Q&A, the rules are slightly different; I want to clarify the same with regards to Docs. That is all. — Two-Bit Alchemist 6 mins ago
I don't really get their point about me answering as if it was not a meta question...
but it doesn't matter much, I already said what I wanted to:)
Hehe, one thing occured to me
If Trump becomes president, I'll be able to say that the pope is more enlightened and accepting than the president of the USA.
that should be a first:D
 
1:25 AM
I didn't have a problem with John Paul II
 
wonders about Bush
@JGreenwell he was a great dude too, but very conservative in several important things (which makes sense, being the pope)
 
well, true but so were a lot of President during his time
so I don't know who would have been "more enlightened"
 
Yeah, I might be missing some perspective. I just assumed that the president should be a modern guy, and popes traditionally conservative and backward. But yeah, that's probably not the case at all.
Anyway, I'm delighted to see how cool Francis is.
 
I have no idea about the new one - which is good in a way (considering why I remember the last one)
 
you mean the new pope?
he says stuff like "gay people can go to heaven too"
 
1:30 AM
Francis has very good PR (and is undoubtedly much, much better than Palpatine). Still pretty dodgy on sex though.
 
from what I can gather, he seems like an insanely progressive pope
you know, by pope measure
he also has a thing for helping those in need
I'm not religious, nor Christian, so I only read the occasional news heading. But he seems to be different.
 
ah, well I'm glad to hear that then.
 
I learned something new today when I wrote this answer, about '()' in the logging dict config. It was fun.
 
@WayneWerner that sounds like a bug that was made into a feature;)
 
it happens
 
1:34 AM
"Oh shit, '()' is in my config now. What do we do with it?"
 
I kind of have a soft spot for the logging module, though. We weren't allowed to use log4net or anything 3rd party libs in my first job, so I basically just ported the crux of python's logging module so we could have some sane logging.
 
^ had that same problem with Perl for a long while
 
I thought perl was logging;)
 
"it's third-party, that means its bad/unsupported/etc..."
 
@AndrasDeak That is a really weird API, TBH
 
1:36 AM
ugh, hated that
 
@JGreenwell We were just insane. It was kind of a, "If it's beyond our firewall it Must Not Be Used". No reason behind it, e.g. "Oh this library is unsupported". We just didn't. They're finally allowing uh... what's that .NET pip-quivalent?
nuget!
lol. I'm quite happy at the amount of effort I had to go through to remind myself what that's called ;)
I think they're actually turning their internal packages into NuGet packages, too, now
So that's pretty cool
 
not being to be able to use NuGet would have meant the last company I used C# for wouldn't have been able to function very well (wonder if there is standard support for SQLite now)
 
In NuGet? It had an SQLite library when I was working back at my first job
stackoverflow.com/posts/38732983/revisions Well that was some interesting not-quite-english. I hope I translated correctly.
Glad this user deleted this answer. Not sure if the question was any good, but that answer was just bad.
 
1:51 AM
SQLite with ASP.Net
to use with Android systems that were connecting over mobile
don't ask - it was a nightmare
 
That doesn't sound nearly as bad as it probably was :P
Well, that's lovely. Just found lice in my son's hair \o/
glad I shave my head
 
yay, school!
...now I have Invader Zim stuck in my head
 
that show is great
I, sadly, was not able to watch it myself until later in life
 
"His skin, his skin is killing all the lice!"
complete with "blender gun" to fight the lice......oh, I don't know how that show ended up on Nickelodeon
 
lol. Yeah, we didn't have Nick that much - we did when Are You Afraid of the Dark was on
and Salute Your Shorts
and Pete and Pete
 
1:57 AM
I started watching it when I was 17-18, when me and my brother started paying for cable ourselves, before that buying VHS of anime (and BBC) was the only way we got to watch anything outside of network TV
 
That was one of the few episodes that I actually got to watch
 
my wife says she liked that (and All That, with original cast) - she had cable at Grandparent's house so saw more
and that I watched to much Invader Zim cause I was waiting for him to try and cut someone's hand off with the paper cutter from the first scene
 
Rhubarb:)
 
was not ready for the creepy guy at the end
rbrb Andras
 
 
2 hours later…
DSM
4:06 AM
@davidism: FYI it turns out my new shop has many Flask fans. The various teams use it for most in-house webapps from simple file servers to data presentations -- I was reviewing one which was flask+angular the other day and I'm working on a flask+aurelia one myself. You know you've made it when people are trying to figure out how to namedrop you. ;-)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:06 AM
cbg
 
6:37 AM
I'll probably kick myself for not figuring out this myself, but I am trying to reraise an exception with the original traceback. I know how to do that, but I'm thinking there must be some way to avoid the fugly syntax:
raise error[0], error[1], error[2]
where error is defined earlier as
error = sys.exc_info()
I get a syntax error for raise(*error)
is there a way to get something like that so I don't have to hardcode the three elements?
python2.7
getting something which works even in 2.6 would be wonderful (don't ask ...)
 
raise?
 
I'm no longer inside an except, I really need to raise the original error which I captured before, regardless of any which happened later
 
raise re-raises the current exception
 
the full scope is error = None; for arg in arguments: do try: process(arg) except ValueError: if not error: error = sys.exc_info() and I want the first error when the loop is done
plain raise works fine for getting the last one, but that's not what I want
unless I can somehow assign back to exc_info ...?
 
the second element of exc_info is the exception instance, which you can raise
raise error[1]
 
6:51 AM
that doesn't get me the original traceback
raise error[0], error[1], error[2] works fine, I'm just wondering if there is a less clunky way to say that
 
so raise error then?
 
nope, that doesn't get me the traceback
confusingly
looks like it is basically interpreted like raise error[0]
 
:( okay, I'll shut up now
 
thanks for your time, I'll post a proper question about this
I was hoping / fearing that I was missing something obvious
 
7:19 AM
hello boys and girls
 
posted a real question now; stackoverflow.com/questions/38736940/…
 
8:00 AM
cbg
@tripleee wat...
you're stuck on 2.6?
:D
 
@AnttiHaapala I said "don't ask!"
 
@tripleee no, you told that to vaultah, never to me :d
error[0], error[1], error[2] is parsed as a new tuple
so should work with raise error
 
some really old boxen are in queue for an upgrade to an even remotely decent Debian version but it involves a horrible amount of manual work
@AnttiHaapala that seems really promising but doesn't reflect what I'm seeing
 
ah no, it is not parsed either... but
>>> import dis
>>> def foo():
...     raise a, b, c
...
>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (a)
              3 LOAD_GLOBAL              1 (b)
              6 LOAD_GLOBAL              2 (c)
              9 RAISE_VARARGS            3
             12 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             15 RETURN_VALUE
 
Eh. I work on CentOS 6 a lot which has 2.6 by default.
 
8:03 AM
wrong tb?
 
I end up building my own version of 3.5.
 
@Ffisegydd ... lame, even @PM2Ring is using 3.6
wat
Documentation is now officially worse than LPTHW.
 
Gooooooood morning. :)
 
8:24 AM
Cbg
 
Cabbage!
 
8:38 AM
cbg o/
 
exciting day - meeting up with an ex-FB engineer, hopefully going to be getting a bit of mentoring from him.
 
Cabbage all, bugrit
 
8:54 AM
Morning ron.
 
9:13 AM
Dude, seriously. Tristan, Wayne and PM2Ring all told you yesterday to read the room rules. Either you've not done that or you're not paying attention to them.
Particularly the bits about asking a question and pasting bunches of code into the room. sopython.com/chatroom
 
@Bio do know the pasting of that code resulted in a flag being raised. That can get you suspended from chat for a while. If you don't want that, be respectful to the room rules. If you don't care, good luck.
 
@Bio If you do your own research then you'll find plenty of Q+A/blogs/whatever that can teach you what to do.
This is starting to get tiresome now, you've been asked/warned multiple times.
I know you said that you're being forced to use python by your manager, but really that's your problem and now ours.
If you're not willing to do your own research and continue to post large chunks of code with little explanation, then you won't be welcome here.
 
9:53 AM
missed them again, heh
 
Bio
Ok... maybe don't respect the rules like you said, but i think it is better to help people who asking about python than talking about subject that they have no relation with python like Poutine.. Sorry to say this. But I remark that you never help people.You are here for joke.. not for Python. Anyway thank you for your "'help".
 
brief cabbage
 
Bio
and now you can block me if you want :)
 
> Ok... maybe don't respect the rules like you said, [...]
STOP THERE
step 0. is respecting the rules
If you don't do that, there's nothing to discuss. End of discussion.
Respecting the rules is the only thing you can do in advance to show that you care for our time, donated free for your help. If you can't even be bothered to do that, we can't be bothered to help you.
 
Bio
I don't want to discuss
 
9:56 AM
cool
 
Bio
and I stop here like you said
 
@Bio We’re here to have fun, yes, that’s absolutely true. A lot of us are here to have nice conversations. That does limit our content to Python, absolutely not. That being said, we all happily help people with their problems if they ask the question properly and if they actually respect our rules and help us figure out the problem together. Just like on SO, we’re not here to do your job, so we won’t do your homework for you.
“I remark that you never help people.” – This simply shows that you have no idea what’s going on here, so you disqualified yourself there completely.
 
Bio
I said "good morning" no one replies
 
:D
I'm sorry to say I gotta go. Take care.
 
Bio
I pose a question, the man said that i dont respect the rules
 
9:58 AM
I leave my popcorn to those in need.
 
Bio
yes good luck
 
I was talking to poke.
 
rbrb @Andras
 
Bio
Pfff!!! python with popcorn ... we are living in funny world
 
We even have cabbages!
What a funny world.
 
9:59 AM
Cabbage popcorn is the best
 
Bio
Yes I see
 
Tiny little cabbages
 
Bio
so... python room? :D
 
@RobertGrant (they're called Brussels sprouts)
 
We're going to change them to London Sprouts when we're out of the EU
 
10:00 AM
:D
 
@AndrasDeak Wonder how we can shorten that properly… brslsprts instead of cbg?
 
tlc (tiny little cabbages)
 
Bio
I prefer " vin rouge " <3
 
Bio
oui ;)
oops yes :)
welle i have to go work now . good luck :) and see you soon :p
 
10:09 AM
I swear September has come early this year.
 
10:34 AM
Is there a common accept way of numbering pages in paginated data ?
I wonder if it's ok to start from 0
 
I would not expect pages to start from 0.
 
@khajvah Django starts numbering with 1 - seems like that's what most (non-programming) users will expect
 
I am doing manual queries, 0 seems easier. I guess I will subtract 1 from input
 
Yeah you've got to put yourself in the shoes of the user, depending on your particular product, chances are they're not technical and would expect 1.
 
@Ffisegydd Are you the fizzy from the future?
 
I need an excuse to miss a bday party
 
Tell them you don't like them.
 
Say it’s your own birthday?
 
nah but I need one for my own too. Hate those events
 
11:10 AM
Crash your car.
 
I like this one: ""Sorry I'm busy being an asshole""
 
has anyone here abused setuptool's EntryPoint's extra section for fun and profit?
 
> A neighbor once came over and asked my father if he could borrow a power tool.

My father not trusting his tool to return told the neighbor no.

When asked why, he said "Because I am making chicken noodle soup."

The neighbor left and later my father explained to me

"If you don't want to do something and you are in the right...the excuse doesn't matter."
Wow, that’s deep
 
just curious if anyone know what's kosher or not :p
 
11:12 AM
This one’s not so much:
> "I can't come."
"Why?"
"I have erectile dysfunction."
 
:D
 
> I promised someone else I wouldn't go to your party.
xD
 
11:26 AM
it's funny coming back on SO after a long time away.. now ashamed of my own answers :p
 
11:42 AM
@pistache it's a good thing
 
Any serious programmer will tend to cringe at code they wrote six months ago or more. But you can't live your life applying today's learning to yesterday's (working but ugly) code.
 
yes, quite true
 
Wonder if anyone knows the mpg of the London Underground
 
Cabbage
 
12:07 PM
@RobertGrant I bet @JRich does.
 
Mpg? Not sure what you mean there.
 
Miles Per Goldfish.
 
12:23 PM
Ahh, the fish fuelled trains, I see. That's secret, obvs.
 
Have you guys seen Sing Street? Not sure how this movie passed so under the radar
 
@holdenweb If n is divisible by each element of a set of positive integers then n must be divisible by the least common multiple of the set.
WTF, I just posted a LCM answer to that question, with working code and a Wikipedia link. Then a minute later, someone else posts a 3 line answer mentioning the LCM with a wrong value for the LCM, and instantly gets an upvote. :(
 
12:39 PM
cbg
@RobertGrant not cool, since pyramid doesn't apply
lol, that spotify model linked there is ... well I do not know how it is different from my understanding of Scrum.
it is just how you do scrum with many teams, period.
excepting for the tiny corner where they say "no scrum, no rules"
 
I think #8 could be expanded to about 5 separate issues if we really wanted to - like I know I've made bad reviews because the UI F'ed me up
 
12:55 PM
@JGreenwell please do :D
@JGreenwell and I didn't understand what did you review because the UI was bad :D
 
@Ffisegydd Some of the high schools here start next week and I know they have added a programming class (w/Python and C# - don't know order their teaching) which is great - but I'm already cringing thinking about the questions
 
How about topics in general that just don't have any place being in docs that keep finding their way through?
 
let me look for an example (but I know delete & move requests are hard to understand)
 
I mean yeah, there is no stopping requests for creating a topic. But that just invites the plagiarism problem
i.e. PEP8 doc request
 

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