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00:09
yey I'm over 1K :D
next goal is 10 K
stackoverflow.com/questions/38579212/… signal to noice is the biggest problem
lol
....too opinionated, I would say 404s and missing files points to a much larger problem within either Version control or actual file system (or a bad hack) and at least is annoying to users
but I can also think of about 6 other reasons off the top of my head
Why VC ?
cause I've seen people do really, really weird things with git
like really, really odd
But git is really safe :)
You can undo almost anything
and the first thing you should be able to check for missing files is the version control to see "who screwed the pooch" and correct them - so if you cannot you have a problem
00:27
I always backup to hard drive that's only plugged in during backup, and then I place it on my desk, so I wouldn't suffer if something screws up
external is a good option for single developer, once you start adding people you have to start dealing with merging issues (and interns who say they know git and then you learn the truth in the worst way possible ;)
...also true
I can't still call myself a dev :) I mean I know to code, but I don't have a paid full time job :P
user559633
01:04
i think i might do a stream of my initial impressions of windows 10. good lord, what the hell happened here
'know' <- like this, since it's ,late to edit :D
you just moved from 7 or other OS (or from a dark age windows?)
user559633
os x. and debian no gui
user559633
what fuck
I still like gui :P
01:05
oh, I'm sorry. Your eyes were virgins
I like a GUI when it makes sense, lot of remote is still terminal based
user559633
why is the menu so huge and offering to voice search. why is double clicking not consistent. why is there a message/notification 40% right modal that says "hey i can i enable feature?" why is it showing me xbox live in a 100x100px box above a thing that says "money" with a font-awesome looking chart? whey does this stupid menu have 5 boxes that say "pending?" how does anything work in this
because its Microsoft - welcome to our house of evil
user559633
what the shit is "groove music"
user559633
why does everything have a 50em r padding
user559633
was there no oversight?
user559633
01:07
how does this even happen
user559633
microsoft is the biggest software company in the world and they did this? holy hell
years of bloating and being a, virtual, monopoly
you get used to it when you have to
user559633
going to devices doesn't even give you options for your devices
user559633
some of you guys wake up every morning and deal with this?
and develop in it
user559633
01:08
holy shit you're so brave
user559633
i know you went to war, but i'm calling you brave not for that, but for developing in windows
esp. visualizations (I virtual Linux boxes for data processing/analysis)
user559633
how is a network driver 200MB
like I still mostly figure out the data then have to create Excel reports full of charts and pictures - building C# wrappers to automate both creation and export after changes saved - then I get to do Python again....like an oasis in the dessert
user559633
this is god awful. i'm alternating between covering my gaping mouth with my hand and deeply laughing
user559633
01:12
5 modals to install a basic network driver and it still doesn't work
the sad part is that 10 is not as bad as other versions were
user559633
i should have bought a ps4.
like not as bad by a long shot
I love my PS4
but then I love RPGs
then again, I felt a similar horror when I looked at the NLTK tag....I looked again today
I figure if I look daily for a week or so - it will de-sensisitive me enough that I'll be able to stomach it enough to actually look for a good question
user559633
nltk at least doesn't have trillions of dollars backing it
btw. @tristan you do NLP: our we looking to integrate with the NLP documentation topic or keep it in python and use NLP for just theory (or algorithms which would be more on-topic but not that on-topic IMO)
user559633
01:24
i haven't looked, but i assume they'd be separate
NLTK doesn't exist on SOD and NLP was just added
user559633
i don't exist on SOD :)
yeah, I'm getting to that point
user559633
i just have no interest in adding another split brain point of docs
haven't created any NLTK stuff cause, well, its really well documented and once you move past a certain point it is really hard to improve docs (and it already feels like people don't read them)
seriously, one more "I don't know how to do NLP or statistics but I want to use nltk with Python to....."...... breath in, breath out
user559633
01:29
i just want to do if nltk.sentiment(corpus).good
user559633
side-channel: this is amazing. i've been looking at a windows screen that says 100% complete for 5 minutes
desktop, laptop, or tablet install?
user559633
desktop. i7 + ssd + 16 gigglebytes of ram. 50/10Mb internet. On internal gigabit internet. no excuse for delay
...yeah, windows update has kinda a history
0
Q: Windows 10 update stuck?

BenjaminI've been having trouble with Windows Update for at least 2 weeks. Every time I go to "Check for updates", I see the usual stuff: For a few seconds, then the following screen appears for just a second: Then back to Checking for updates. After a little while, I see Preparing to install upda...

user559633
windows 10 is what happens when you leave a child on a hill to be raised by wolves and a pack of agile consultants pick him up instead
user559633
01:37
minute 10 of 100% completegate. never mind, it crashed
user559633
and the "pending" squares in my menu turned to advertisements. what is this
like candy crush and stuff?
user559633
i don't know how to screenshot and there is no way in hell i am trusting this thing. one second, will take photo
"live tiles" do that...there are ways to turn those off (one by one)
user559633
user559633
01:40
this is garbage
yeah, live tiles
user559633
what the shit
36
Q: How can I remove Live Tile updates in Windows 8?

sheshiI have a very slow Internet connection and don't want Live Tiles using up my bandwidth for updates. Is there a way to shut them off? I've changed the Show updates for Tiles in the settings but still they show up.

that's that change to the start menu that everyone hated
user559633
this whole OS is unrelenting garbage
but its better than XP
which I still occasionally run into
user559633
01:49
alright, i'm done bitching. obviously i just need to write a batch script to disable garbage and change settings. i'm sure win10 is still group policy hitched
well, powershell script works better but other than that...yep
user559633
i have a hard time believing that a lot of the windows design decisions were on purpose
ah, so it looks like NLTK and pycorenlp are getting shifted into NLP topic....which makes no sense to me but whatev' it all broken anyway
user559633
i've been using it for about an hour and i could already fill a notebook with "you need to fix this" comments
user559633
whatever
user559633
01:55
docs is only going hot because internet points
and SO corp. pushing it
user559633
yeah because that worked for teams
which I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't for teams
user559633
sarcastic, but yeah, i think that "give free pointz" is the actual driving factor
user559633
get in there first and mine that sweet e-rep for plagiarizing and writing poorer quality official docs
01:57
well driving force for users but I think extra points decision was based on Teams fizzle (to ensure activity)
user559633
to what end though?
user559633
for open source and non-commercial products, it's just a on-site, faster revision documentation page
user559633
great for snippets and shit for understanding, like the rest of SO
yeah, why I'm not writing docs for NLP (it would have to be mostly copy and paste at this point).......or feels pointless cause how many "bag of words" tutorials/posts exist already
user559633
it only really shines on "let our idiots^H^H^H^H^H^H users write your paypal docs for you for free"
01:59
> I'm using df.copy() to copy my pandas dataframe. Is this correct?
Yes.
someone will reference deepcopy function I would put money on it
ahh....so close
Wow. That is really impressive
02:28
bhah...aahh..hah...I was talking about divergent series and my wife keep asking the most crazy questions until I realized she was asking about the movie (series) while I was talking about math
....that is literally the weirdest conversation I've ever had
trololol
How long did that last?
I'm really curious how long one could have that conversation in a meaningful but extremely confusing fashion, and the idea entertains me greatly :D
Can you try to put that in my handle function?It is not clear what i should change — curious 2 mins ago
Oh dear
...nothing
change nothing
it's rough when people probably need some remedial programming before they do what they're trying to do
unless one needs to do something else
cause it works (granted could be better....maybe time to point towards codereview?)
(I went ahead and put def handle(self): at the top of my code block, but yowch)
02:33
....I hesitate cause its not that bad (and code review would just start confusing him with optimizations and scalability changes)
oh....different question - thought it was the df.copy() one still
see what I miss by having confusing conversations
DSM
DSM
I find it hard to believe the OP is using 3, given the print statements and the use of SocketServer.
@DSM Oh, they said they were using 3? No, very much not.
o.O who in the world downvoted my answer?
DSM
DSM
And there are obvious typos in the OP's code:
date = open('file_t.txt').read()
sock.sendall(data + "\n")
@WayneWerner you should add your comment explaining the code directly to the answer
i.e. the statement about not needing break and that empty string evaluates to False
Done
As I was writing it I realized that it probably could go into the answer itself :P
Apparently I just needed some encouragement
02:47
yeah, you actually pointed to the empty string "trick" in point 2. but explicit will likely work better for future visitors
I'm a fan of repetition
I also like repeating myself if it helps people catch what I have to say
anyone who teaches is
user559633
yeah, repetition is pretty much key
...though it does drive friends insane when they just look at you until you stop talking and sheepishly say "I was lecturing again, wasn't I?"
Heheh.
lol. What in the world? stackoverflow.com/q/38580085/344286
Hey, aren't SOD wonderful?
0
Q: Mutable default attribute reset - could someone please guide me through this logic?

JackSilverIn this entry in the functions section of the Python documentation, I was confused by the following example: def append(elem, to=None): if to is None: to = [] to.append(elem) return to append(5) # Out: [5] append(3) # A new list is created # Out: [3] The point here is supposed to be...

02:58
I'll plus the OP but now its time to search for a dup
1423
Q: "Least Astonishment" in Python: The Mutable Default Argument

Stefano BoriniAnyone tinkering with Python long enough has been bitten (or torn to pieces) by the following issue: def foo(a=[]): a.append(5) return a Python novices would expect this function to always return a list with only one element: [5]. The result is instead very different, and very astonish...

Like that one?
... yes
its like exactly the same question (though it looks like it was just copied to doc...so....you know....)
Eeeeexactly :P
03:05
in academia, we have a name for this lack of citation
QFT
(which is le irony)
when do you start getting 5 points per upvote ?
@MarkoMackic when you ask a question
or more accurately, when your question is upvoted
10 for answer upvotes
nope, when answer is upvoted
15 for answer acceptance
There's no possible way that I know of to get 5 points for an answer upvote
because downvotes are 2 per
so it's always going to be something even
03:14
I know, well it happens
unless you get 5 downvotes and an accept
Do you have a particular answer that you think got you 5 rep?
Yeah
it's js related though
that's fine - I'm just interested in looking at the vote breakdown :P
It's actually all good
5/0 :p
it matches the score just so notified me like +5
I can see a vote breakdown now :P It's such fun :D
do you ever get option to see who up/down voted
not that I know of
It's probably a good thing... but it would be nice if downvotes required comments :P
03:28
sure thing
03:42
@WayneWerner though I actually upvoted your last answer, I almost never comment on downvotes
Yeah, I usually don't either - at least if there's something obviously wrong -_-
I've actually gotten downvoted due to commenting on an answer once (which I did not even downvote) cause OP thought it was me
I just don't but then again - I rarely downvote for non-administrative (ie. question which needs closed) reasons
...used to, back when I would also spend about 6+ comments trying to teach a user, but help vampires have drained me too much for that anymore
well, them and undergrads.....yeah, undergrads do not help :p ;)
I can surely believe that... I was one, once ;)
though I suspect that I was a little better than most
mainly due to the fact that I would actually try myself before going for help
03:52
you also probably, like myself, had to use the library and other resources outside of Google ;)
cbg all
I added silica gel to my coffee instead of sugar. I can see this day is going to turn out great -_-
did you finally catch any sleep @JGreenwell?
yep, rare bender for me. It was fun.....the next day was not so fun
4
A: How to mark a docs change as invalid and revert it?

Kevin MontroseYou can propose a rollback by going through the history of a topic. Rollbacks are edits that are reviewed like other changes, in order to preserve history and not break links.

^ worst UI design I have ever seen - to include old version controls I used on Unix
The whole doc UI is a steaming pile of mess
03:59
at least I figured out how to turn off those painful little blue dots
The tour ones?
I'm so curious what the meetings have looked like/sounded like over SOD
Who's teeth were grinding...
Morning
morning
04:09
I'm going to bed every moment , that's why I say.. don't misunderstand
I like that attitude
I'm still kinda - no, that's not fair - I'm still really angry at the top priority quote - cause SO (or any of SE) doesn't have a dark theme - even though there are those of us for whom this is just a necessity of using the 'Net (or a computer at all)
which granted I force with custom css but that it is not even an afterthought.......
I spent a couple of hours looking for the "night mode" button before realizing it doesn't exist
Chat has a few that people made...don't know if they are official though
@WayneWerner I'm much more curious about what an entire community involved in the Private Beta accomplish. How did they not forsee all these problems. Some are blindingly obvious
04:17
@ChaoticTwist well, if there were only 2k people, and we don't now how many were really that active, much of it might have been mitigated by the fact that these were actual contributors to SO - who knew something of the languages they were working in.
beyond that there is a meta post about stuff that didn't get fixed from private to public
Oh, I missed that post. That clears out many things. SOD still sucks though.
04:43
time for bed, rbrb
 
2 hours later…
07:07
cbg
@JGreenwell did they throw out the documentation from private beta?
because there wasn't anything good when the public beta started
anyway, I thought that documentation was a good idea. It might juts be that my imagination sucks
This is NOT the same question. Look at what I'm asking and what he is asking. I want to know if there is a way to split these into lists WITHOUT converting to string and then back to int. — user1072337 1 min ago
downvote pls :D
07:27
cbg @AnttiHaapala
Documentation was a good idea but the implementation is sorely lacking. People are still wondering what the purpose of documentation is and the UI is a mess.
07:47
cbg everyone
08:00
quiet today
We're in mourning for the site.
which site?
what's happening?
SODs
08:06
No. The mourning is because it still exists
@AndyK no, SOD is not gone.
We're mourning for SO
everyone just wishes for "sod off"!
ah ah @AnttiHaapala
SO should be open-source.
@AndyK there are open source replicas
Why should SO be open source?
like that every initiative would be up for discussion
08:10
@AndyK every initiative is up for discussion
@AndyK you know of meta?
Having SO open source would serve no function as far as I can see. Not everything has to be open source.
I did not know that @AnttiHaapala
It'd make it worse, in fact. Because people could more easily make SO clones that would increase the number of places that Q+A could be stored. Rather than having one central repo of knowledge you'd have N.
all these documentation stuff has been "discussed" there.
however, the problem is that there is no real discussion.
not like we have in this chat.
Yeah there's not enough snark and cats.
08:14
If you go to the documentation beta chat, and open your mouth, someone will push their dirty socks into your mouth.
3
documentation beta chat feels more like propaganda
also, another reason why docs currently sucks, is that it thinks every opinion is worth the same.
if you're sick, you'd rather get a diagnosis from a physician, not a physicist.
But what if I'm sick at a quantum level?
vks
vks
anybody using python-appium-client here?
@Ffisegydd you've got a fair point
if the initiative is discussed fair enough. One point though: If you have a new initiative, how can you set it up in SO?
08:18
@vks perhaps no
o/ @RobertGrant
@AndyK not SO, sexchange
ok @AnttiHaapala. SE eco system has really grow a lot
quite amazing
08:22
Yes that's a great one :)
what is it @AnttiHaapala?
still lolling here
just got it
@AndyK have a look at the URL
08:24
lol
even now, if you search for expert sexchange in google, you'll land in experts exchange
Is there a sexchange topic in experts exchange? I'm sure it's a field with some expertise required.
@RobertGrant if there was sexchange.sexchange.com, I'd bet the docs would be something really awful
"just use the scissors"
Accepted by megan00b, 3 minutes ago
Speaking of mega n00bs.
08:38
Cabbage!
09:09
o/ @poke
shit.
just noticed that description of undefined behavior in C docs was utter shit.
09:31
Morning
show us what you tried already — Daniel Sanchez 59 mins ago
I haven't tried anything yet :/ — Matan Shamir 52 mins ago
wow
Morning folks
for the above one if that wasn’t obvious…
cbg @IntrepidBrit!
@poke at least he is frank :)))
adi
adi
Hi guys, anyone familiar with deploying in Heroku? I am trying to deploy a Flask app that contains a Bokeh graph, but Heroku didn't help much and asked me to try stackoverflow. Chat not the good place for this maybe?
09:43
@adi ask and if people can help, they will. if not ... Rules of the room are here ;) -> sopython.com/chatroom
@adi and no, chat is not a good place for this. Post a detailed question to the main page telling exactly what the error / whatever you're getting is
@adi I presume you're talking about stackoverflow.com/questions/38564389/… ? Unfortunately, the room rules that Andy just linked ask people to wait 1-2 days before coming to chat looking for help with recently posted questions.
@Ffisegydd that is 1-2 days old
24 hours
We should be more specific on the rules :P
I <3 this chat room
09:46
@AndyK well, you're just okay.
@Ffisegydd I was the one who added that line :D
@Ffisegydd lol-ing
@adi please edit the question that the log text itself is readable, e.g. remove most of the timestamp.
2016-07-25T09:32:40.623123+00:00 app[web.1]: to something like 09:32:40 app:
adi
adi
Yes, I posted that question yesterday. I have a Flask app where I have embedded a Bokeh plot. The plot needs the bokeh server to run. And so I have included a subprocess inside the Flask app to start bokeh server. That doesn't work though - it just shows the content served by Flask. The graph area is empty. My procfile was `web: gunicorn app:app` at this point. Then I removed the subprocess, and tried to start bokeh server from the procfile. So, now the procfile is `web: gunicorn app:app
web: bokeh serve --port=$PORT --host=bokehapp.herokuapp.com --host=* --address=0.0.0.0 --use-xheaders bo
@adi one question: why are you using stdout=subprocess.PIPE if you're not going to read from stdout.
I am not sure whether it affects
but might as well try that
09:52
@AnttiHaapala lol
Wow, that is a terrible res picture
@RobertGrant …
no, oneboxing just fscks it up
09:54
Also, what’s up with your font? Ever heard of aliasing or ClearType?
ClearType's on :)
Sorry, to answer your question, yes I have heard of those.
ah those windows fonts are hideous
SO chat has always looked not that great for fonts
that just looks awful
compared to my linux font rendering
Weirdest burn ever
adi
adi
10:00
@AnttiHaapala I just tried it without stdout, but still no graph. The key error here looks this one: `09:57:07 app[web.1]: Cannot star
t Bokeh server, port 5006 is already in use`
@RobertGrant I was actually trying to capture JRS as he'd just entered, but he evaded it.
Luckily poke came in and did the needful.
wtf ISIS.
@adi so it seems that port 5006 is already in use. perhaps you need to kill the old bokeh server or sth :d
adi
adi
@AnttiHaapala, don't know how to kill that, but will try to delete the app entirely and deploy it from scratch again and will let you know.
@adi killall bokeh
@adi perhaps you should highlight that error in there, it is very hard to spot it. No need to add all sorts of logs that are completely unrelated to your problem
adi
adi
10:35
@AnttiHaapala, I cleaned the logs in my question a little bit: stackoverflow.com/questions/38564389/…
Did heroku kill bokeh as well, and also deleted the app completely and deployed the files again, but still getting the "port 5006 already in use"
10:53
hmmm
@adi perhaps try another port explicitly?
where does that 5006 come from?
adi
adi
@AnttiHaapala 5006 is the default Bokeh port, but I can change that by passing a --port parameter in subprocess. Trying that now.
11:15
Cabbage
@wgwz "just started my next week long class about python! (with middle school age kids) got them into flask the first day XD". davidism will be pleased </sarcasm> You're a bad person, and you should feel bad. :(
cbg guys
@PM2Ring why no pyramid :(((
I have a question: how do I explicitly pass % character with psycopg2
it seems to be expecting a value
@AnttiHaapala Does it really matter which framework you're teaching kids who have one day of Python experience? It's going to end in tears, and horrible SO questions.
Hello,

I have some code (http://pastebin.com/SsYQq58u) that allows me to scroll through a bunch of images, and select a rectangular region
can anybody help me understand why the rectangle only shows up on the first image?

I can still get the vertices of the rectangle on subsequent images, but the drawing disappears
11:18
@khajvah No idea, but try %%.
it werked. Thanks
adi
adi
@khajvah try cur.execute("INSERT INTO store VALUES(%s,%s,%s)",(item,quantity,price))
adi
adi
@AnttiHaapala I added '--port=8899' to subprocess, but didn't work, not even locally. Says "failed to connect to the server".
Morning
11:36
cabbage
have you seen the new docs featured meta?
> We got more activity in 1 day on Stack Overflow than we did in the entirety of the private beta.
That should give them an idea of how well they prepared the beta.
> There’s a backlog of about 2,000 proposed changes
So we get another queue that will never be cleared up, just like close votes
@PM2Ring :D should teach them php :d
I learned Python by doing Django from the first day
but I had to. It wasn't my choice.
Speaking of PHP, this comment from Andras' link is interesting:
@Hack-R I have 15k rep and I do not think I should be allowed to post without approval. Not because I'm not knowledgeable, but everything I add to the docs should be checked. I sometimes word things badly, break the format inadvertently or even may introduce a blatant mistake. I maybe am a core contributor to php-src and to the official manual, but this does not mean I never post mistakes. Documentation has a much higher bar of correctness than normal SO posts, IMO. If it's just simple typos, they're also quickly reviewed by anyone else, it takes barely 10 seconds to review such a proposal… — bwoebi 9 hours ago
11:48
fair enough
It's a cookbook. You don't browse it to learn; you arrive from Google and copy the "example" you want. — Jeffrey Bosboom 8 hours ago
then don't call it documentation for fsck's sake!
user559633
i agree 100%.
@Antti our dear prime minister is on the news :D
@AndrasDeak shit
user559633
11:57
i love the pro hillary plug in the new york times
@poke I am not sure how you will arrive to example you need from google.
Not my quote!
he is right about not browsing it to learn though

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