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19:00
SOD has a possibility to turn into the Eternal September for SO
if it's taking existing low-rep garbage users and turning them into high-rep garbage users
or the Sweet November
The next big building blocks needed for R.A.B.B.I.T. are:
- some kind of formal data store for keeping track of things like "how many times each user has been kicked" etc
- a remote connection channel so authorized users can issue commands and receive information through a non-public communication medium
- task scheduling for periodic duties, e.g. star curation
@AndrasDeak sorry :D :D
for what?:D
I'm sorry I can only upvote once
xD
19:02
I'm feeling more triggered than an event-driven programmer
#1 seems relatively straightforward but there are plenty of options for a DB. Anyone got an opinion?
@Kevin Yeah, I think those were my biggest mehs back when I was working on it too I think.
Something open source. postgresql, maybe? Might be worth asking what @Intrepid was planning on using for his link rotting work.
@Kevin #1 should be called davidism_number, regardless of data model
@Kevin If it is supposed to run on the sopy servers, then probably postgres
19:03
Yeah I was assuming this would run on the sopy servers in the end
can't ever figure out if I should reject stuff, comment and wait for fix, or approve and then fix
@WayneWerner yes:D
in which the chick dies a painful death
@JGreenwell ask the magic 8 ball!
It all seems simple enough for sqlite
19:04
Most of our tables will be pretty lightweight except the one for "record full transcript"
How many gigs does it take to store every message ever made, I wonder...
@JGreenwell only approve&fix if you're willing to give rep to the editor
going with comment and hope for change...but then someone else will probably approve and then I'll have to change it anyway
@Kevin Just use an ORM - then you an use sqlite3 for lite deployments etc... but then switch it to postgres to work with the main site later
Yeah I was going to suggest that too, but I wasn't sure which to suggest. SQLA?
19:06
^ I’m actually considering using sqlite as production databases lately. Apparently they are not exactly bad with concurrency.
> Schmaltzy and manipulative, Sweet November suffers from an implausible plot and non-existent chemistry between its leads.
yup - again that'd keep it consistent with the site... and it's easy enough to work with
That sounds about right...
I'll suggest that to Intrepid actually. Would be good if we're all singing off the same hymn sheet.
@WayneWerner yup
19:07
SOD had an implausible plot - I remember like a year or two ago when they started talking about it and it seemed like everyone just felt like, "Wait wat? I don't know how this is anything better?"
not that Keanu has any chemistry, whatsoever. By himself.
Yeah I'm pretty keen on sticking to whatever tech stack the sopython team is comfortable with
Whoa, I've never clicked on Shog9's profile before. Always thought his icon was a weird horse. Turns out it's a guy in a hat.
I'm not okay with this.
:D
@WayneWerner there was also the private beta stage when it seemed to be crap
@WayneWerner It wasn’t even a year ago, this idea is fresher than it should be
19:09
> SQLA Inc., Square Los Angeles Inc., is a Landscape Architecture, Site planning and Urban Design firm dedicated to the art and craft of creating engaging environments with lasting presence for living, work and play.
Hmm, not sure if this suits my needs.
turns out, Nicol has the same issues still
>lasting presence

Well, it *sounds* like they do persistence
multiline doesn't have markdown
yeah I forget how this works
only text XOR code XOR quote
(we should have RABBIT do these messages, I've been doing it a lot:P)
19:10
We had “CTRL+K to format code” pinned like for a month
Is "SQLA" short for "SQLAlchemy"? Just want to double check. I don't want it to turn out that I learned something new for no reason.
from now on I'm just defaulting to reject
@JGreenwell you have Jon's approval, go for it;)
19:12
thought about it and why would we list split() in List....when I have to hammer split as a string method so much already
You list split() in List? Dawg...
Ok, cool... I'll use github.com/sopython/rabbit/issues/3 as my SQLA crash-course.
"user info box"?
We've been looking into docker for running the services, or I have at least. But that's far away yet.
Kevin your github avatar is disturbingly similar to mine
19:14
Yeah, the box that appears when you click on a user's name in the room. We're going to use user scripts to add custom information to it.
oooh, awesome
whatever you do, have a "garlic" button in there
we'll figure out later what it should do
I've got a proof-of-concept implemented for that already. It's floating around in my gist somewhere. But it doesn't talk to a server or anything, so the only information in the box is whatever you put in there yourself.
We need a failsafe command that all ROs need to press in tandem to work.
Yeah we've kicked around the idea of community voting for various purposes. It's quite an interesting concept although it's not clear if any of it will become a real feature
@Ffisegydd nuke launch keys style?
19:16
Yeah exactly
No idea what it'll do. Post a cat gif or something.
Antti's cool approach to problems means he should have at least two keys
@AndrasDeak Sounds like the Diablo chat gem.
"The garlic has been clicked." "The garlic has been unclicked."
Heh. Nice.
I'm going to run out of rejects today, I can feel it
user559633
19:32
all ROs turn keys and the room reverts to python 2.6
user559633
Sexy.
Thought your mobo was nogo?
user559633
exchanged an ASUS for an MSI
user559633
I luckily bought it at an area store
Ah nice.
user559633
19:33
the new mobo looks less sexy and has fewer features, but it works
#yes, I'm putting a class definition inside a method definition. I acknowledge that this is weird.
#this has to go here because I don't see any other way for the class' methods to refer to `self` properly.
user559633
what smells bad
Fizzy's brain getting overcooked?
Not my code.
@JGreenwell I hear it's always best served medium rare :)
19:36
Just some code I just read.
It's a class inside a class and the inner class is using the outer class' self.
Hmm, what's a good table design for Track profile changes? I'm thinking a table for users, a table for names, and a table for avatars. Does that make sense?
user559633
@classmethod
def xy(...):
I don't want to have too many tables where only a few are necessary, but it seems like we'd need a row for each new name change. Unless sqlite and postgres have a vector-y data type?
Damnit I was hoping you'd all judge that code and Kevin would sit silently weeping. You've all let me down.
Tables? Dunno mate, don't do relational, not my thang.
I do relational, but badly.
19:39
Closest I get is csvs.
I'm a graphdb man.
@Ffisegydd That's exactly the code I was writing when I said:
2 hours ago, by Kevin
I guess I'll go with that for now, and if anyone complains, they can go ahead and make a pull request.
user559633
!!!!protip: use method signatures for all your storage needs
I didn't complain, I just tried to get others to.
Criticism won't make me silently weep because I'm sitting behind my indestructible aegis of "don't like it? It's open source mate, let's see you do better"
user559633
I'm high agility so most crits don't land
DSM
DSM
(whew) Two hour planning meeting is over!~
@tristan \o/ it's... lightning ALIVE!
Beware crazy things like that in postgres that might not work in something like sqlite (I don't know if this is true, I just have suspicions)
DSM
DSM
On the bright side, looks like I might get to replace a bunch of C# with Python. One less language to maintain.
user559633
19:43
@AndrasDeak seriously. MSI much higher quality. and LGA 1151 loves to get bent pins
arrays? no, those won't work in SQLite or MySQL
user559633
my cpu slid out of my fingers from maybe 5mm away and landed on a pin and it bent
And might not work with ORMs
user559633
hooray for steady hands and a magnifying lens
19:43
Ok, separate table it is, then.
MySQL tends to use BLOB type for that
user559633
you could just use one table and we could refactor as needed
user559633
bool most_recent
or one-to-many
Refactoring sounds scawy.
19:44
both are ugly
but LONGBLOB is uglier
by a lot
The problem with one table is we're going to have at least six columns for things other than name/avatar, and I don't want to duplicate data when it isn't necessary.
Most of them are bools but one of them is "user notes" which will be a string of indefinite size I guess
database normalization!!!!!111
"Let me paint you a word picture about my e-friend Kevin. I first met Kevin on a cold winter's night in Room 6..."
If a particularly naughty user changes his avatar every day and we rack up 100 kb of notes about his crimes, then multiplying them together will be fairly substantial
> Twas the night before Christmas and all through the site, idiots were doing random crap to try and get hats.
19:47
@Kevin Just store users, and have a user log that tracks what changes
user559633
just hook into rabbit to kick/ban on avatar change
@tristan the cpu sockets also tend to help straighten pins if they're not too badly bent
i.e. two tables
user559633
@WayneWerner yeah, it was only one and i could magnifying glass it. up and running now
Could your second table be something like:
19:48
@tristan sweet success
user_id STR
change_type STR
previous STR
new STR
datetime DATETIME
My initial design doc says:
USER_NAMES
user_id revision_id name

USER_AVATARS
user_id revision_id url

USER
user_id is_banned kick_count trash_count flag_count notes (various internal user flags?)
Where change_type is username or avatar or whatever.
@tristan oh shit was it your new cpu now?
I thought it was some nostalgia
user559633
@AndrasDeak yurp. 4 gigglehertz means i'll get all the excitebike fps
19:48
Means you can always add new change_types as new things need to be kept track of without needing new tables.
@Kevin +1, you have design docs
@tristan I mean the dropping
Agreed with fizzy’s idea
user559633
@AndrasDeak oh lol, yeah. slipped out of my fingers while placing it and it unfortunately turned
@Ffisegydd I feel like it gets just a little hairy if we need to keep track of something that isn't a string
user559633
19:49
change log is cool but slightly more to implement
user559633
i'd add a datetime_modified to those
@Kevin If you are using sqlite3, then that isn’t an issue. It’s dynamically typed :P
Well it's SQLA with sqlite/postgres depending.
But I’m actually wondering what non-string thing might change
Avatar image? Sure, but then just have a avatar_blobs table and use blob_ids
Scratch that as people could change avatar but keep url the same
19:52
The answer to "What interesting number does every user have?" is "rep", but it's not something that RABBIT really needs to know
Since we're such an egalitarian utopia and nobody judges anyone else on their imaginary point count
user559633
e_cred
Please don’t make a rep tracker >_>
Oh you mean stackcoins?
cabbagecoins
Ok, one table for changes in general seems fine.
19:53
It can always use the SE API to get current rep anyway which is probably what it would only ever need.
Sure something more analysisy on the backend might want to look at rep history, but leave that to Ffis-damnit.
We've probably spent more time discussing it than it would take to switch from one approach to another in the future when requirements become more apparent :-P
Nature of the game.
Next up on the docket, what color should we paint the shed that houses the database...
user559633
@DSM they might be happy to learn that doing webdev has made me so unhappy that i'm considering writing NerdCop: The Game: First Boot (for Personal Computers)
sopykarma
19:58
@tristan I'd buy that
I'd kickstart it, but only if you streamed the coding of it.
user559633
Wait, seriously? Okay.
user559633
I was going to hack it together in Unity and give it away.
:D
look what you did to this new bud of open source culture
or at least freeware
cmd = input("You are standing in a field. There is a nerd here. \n >";
if cmd == "SMASH NERD":
    ....
Nerd Cop early access, now on Steam
20:02
@tristan Sure. I'd pay money to see you try and code a game up.
@MorganThrapp shoudn't functions be defined before they are called ? for that question about bank account.
It should, yeah.
user559633
Dude, fizzy is fucking savage
:D
I thought experimenting on humans was illegal
then how do medical trials work
20:03
OK I was only trying to say something witty
user559633
some of the medication is candy, some of the medication is medication. might as well take other candy and medication with the trial to make sure you win.
^ and that's how college kids mess up the trials
don't make this be about homeopathy
user559633
homeopath sounds like an interior decorator that murders people
homeopathy rules. I swear I ate a cucumber and it healed my cold.
cucumber is the new advil cold and sinus. Pass it on
I'm making it a thing
My mom is big into homeopathy. I had quite a lot of homeopathic "medicine" as a child.
Things are starting to make sense now MTFL :)
@MorganThrapp is that why you seem as though you've once briefly experienced Python expertise, but you don't actually consist of it? HOMEOPYTHONY BURN!!!
You have summoned me
Nah, my experience is just so dilute that it's too powerful.
20:18
Ruh roh.
We've been discussing sopython dev @Intrepid. Kevin has been doing work on RABBIT.
I was going to use a sqlite DB, but that doesn't work well on PythonAnywhere apparently, so I've just stuck to MySQL because it's comfortable and familiar
We were discussing databases. The consensus we came to seems to be to use SQLAlchemy and then SQLite/postgresql.
@Ffisegydd that is a good idea for a kickstarter
You pay for the experience!™
user559633
That would be terrible for the streamer. People shouting at you and backseat optimizing every line of code
@Ffisegydd I was debating using SQLAlchemy at one point - figured I would learn one new fangled thing at a time.
20:21
Makes sense.
I think there's not too much stress to make sure that everything lines up right now.
More important to get MVP done and up.
Then we pivot and turn into a streaming startup.
Get bought out by Twitch, and live like fat cats.
I'm in
where do I sign up
Which is to say, hunting in the gutters for rats.
I can dig that dawg.
user559633
Yeah, that sounds fun
@Ffisegydd I can picture that now
20:23
Unagi
That can be what the RO nuclear buttons do.
We all press at the same time and we become a php shop dedicated to stream social enhancement.
user559633
Frontend webdev is not a lot of fun. It's all about the super fancy SPA that you then have to validate on the back
Aiming to connect growing businesses with emerging millennials.
user559633
Cross-stream new media marketing
It's all about the tween market.
20:25
Let's make a game about being a Scrum Master. You can spend the first half figuring out how many points each task should be, and the second half explaining why you were wrong in the first half.
It'll be popular with scrum masters and rugby refs
user559633
We'll market ourselves as tween market. What other marketing execs won't know is that we meant it as in the intermediate frames and we're tweening between FPS and isomorphic shooters
What's the final boss going to be? You have to admit you were wrong all along and go back to waterfall while making it seem like it's all your plan?
user559633
achievement unlocked : tricked someone into drinking the kool aid
user559633
scrumfall pro 96
I was thinking a cyclops that looks like Gordon Brown
20:26
@tristan (genuine) lol I also thought of tween like that
Hey - tween comedy called Genuine Lol
Does...does that mean your other lols weren't genuine?
@Ffisegydd lol
Just lol.
user559633
don't make it weird bro
;_____________________________________________________;
user559633
going to ask the gf if she's cool with me becoming a stay at home bro
20:28
I think when No Man's Sky is released we'll all be that
Urgh. I need that in my veins.
user559633
I have low expectations
Can't be disappointed if you're never appointed.
@tristan It's hard to disappoint low expectations
user559633
quit talking about my sex life you two
20:29
There's not much to say.
@tristan to keep your expectations low, it's basically FtL plus Minecraft plus Elite plus System Shock 2 plus Braid.
I wonder if there is a proposal ban based on the number of rejections (for SOD).....I hope so
user559633
i'm so fucking triggered right now
I have a career in marketing to a very, very specific subdemographic
20:31
@RobertGrant @Ffisegydd @tristan - so at some point - are you guys going to get around to a having a game of Worms Clan Wars?
user559633
my computer will be ready tomorrow night (as long as i don't get a DOA 1060)
Yes of course!
Fizzy and the Rabbitites: I won't be doing anything remotely clever with the DB, so it wouldn't take long to switch to whatever mad scheme we decide on.
Thanks for keeping asking - my brain doesn't remember non-work things past one day now, so it's helpful :)
Must be a shock when you get home from work and are reminded you have a spawnling.
20:33
@Ffisegydd or maybe it's a... "oh gawd... I thought I'd imagined that... it's still here!?" :)
user559633
signal(SIGTSTP, robby_spawn)
@Ffisegydd :) he's generally in bed by that point, but I'm already pretty much ready for bed as well
But enough about my virility
6
@tristan you're going to be disappointed in me - I'm save scumming my way through a game of FtL
whoah, worms is even available for linux
user559633
@RobertGrant what gross
user559633
20:36
i didn't even know you could do that
Yeah :(
user559633
do you mean saving because you don't have time? that's acceptable
So easily
Yup - they've also got an offer on steam of every single worms game for £18 or something
Yes I don't have time, or I'm impatient
20:38
@JonClements and it's not even like that silly 3d thing they tried, this is proper worms!
@Andras I actually enjoyed the 3D version on the Wii... but 2D is easier for my poor little brain...
user559633
user559633
20:43
installing windows. the dead will soon walk the earth
kill it with fire
user559633
and i'm using a mechanical keyboard.
Umm... didn't realise Matt Smith was in Terminator Genisys...
Jon I never realized why your name is blue ?
Jon is a mod
20:53
only he ? mod of the room, or of the site ?
That's it :D
Room admins are called Room Owners, and have their names in italics
Mod of Stack Overflow, and no, we have a few more
but Jon and Martijn are the best, obvs:P
and for the record, room owners are here, bottom left
Martijn's a bit redundant there, privilege-wise;)
user559633
20:56
and for the record, this is a link to baby come back, by player
@AndrasDeak Well... that obviously goes without saying cough :p
Jon's coughing and his tongue's hanging out. I think we need to replace him before he gets even more sick.
maybe his tongue is out from being happy but he drank too cold water after all the running, making him cough
Jon needs some honey:P
Wow... hoomans that care!? wags tail...
scratches ears
goes to wash hands because dog ears stink
smells popcorn-scented paws instead
21:05
umm.... just when I thought hoomans couldn't get weirder... backs away a bit...
for the dogless people: I wasn't kidding
take that, cats
Well... we'll just chalk that up to another surreal discussion for the Python room :p
that's what you all get for leaving me alone with my work:P
Sounds like you need a new job? :p
hell no:D
(it's just a bit fortrany right now)
21:37
rbrb for a bit...
rhubarb
@AndrasDeak another good comedy to recommend ? :D
I don't think I've seen any other; I'm very picky when it comes to comedies
I'm annoyed by most things that people find funny
Deadpool was really good, if you haven't seen it yet
I haven't
what genre do you watch ?
whoah, go watch Deadpool right now:)
We usually watch fantasy/some sci-fi/crime/mystery/mildly paranormal kinds of things, and a lot of others:P
the best movies make you think (Deadpool is not one of those)
21:49
I like to think :P give me one from fantasy genre, I haven't watched fantasy for 2 days :D
we watched both Snow White and the Huntsman and its sequel, The Huntsman: Winter's War not long ago, and both were watchable
when you refer to we < - who's in that array
Kristen Stewart so meh, but Charlize Theron, so woo
@MarkoMackic the wife and I :)
I must watch :) Aha
(brickface is only in the first movie)
21:53
Any children yet ?
@MarkoMackic nah, just us, and a dog
I know about a dog :P you take him out at 4am every day :p
no, I take her out before going to sleep:D
I love dogs :) but we keep them on the village
Dogs are great. Ask anybody. Anybody but Fizzy.
21:56
Yeah :) he really doesn't like them
But I don't like cats too much :P so we're even :D
user559633
user559633
compromise
I'd cut 70% to the left, but I like agility about cats, they're very very nice animals to watch when jumping up the walls
user559633
i googled "whiskey summer cocktail" as it's 34º outside, before realizing that the instructions that i'm looking for are "add ice"
22:03
and climbing the (ladders) ?..
Marko what do you think about munchkins?
They have beautiful eyes ;) looks so innocent
22:22
"import use_camera"
22:48
just started my next week long class about python! (with middle school age kids) got them into flask the first day XD
23:01
taking the learn how to use it before you understand it approach
23:14
re-cbg all
...huh, poke's question hasn't been dupe hammered yet. I'm shocked
cbg @JGreenwell
flask is one of those things I should learn eventually - too many subjects :P ;)
what is the difference between class Customer: and class Customer(object):? i've seen it both ways, always assumed no difference. :/
i really like flask :) i've learned a lot by following in and around the pocoo projects
(pocoo being the group of devs on a few projects including flask)
328
Q: Python class inherits object

tjvrIs there any reason for a class declaration to inherit from object? I just found some code that does this and I can't find a good reason why. class MyClass(object): # class code follows...

aha. thanks.
23:27
from flask import Flask
app = Flask(__name__)

@app.route('/')
def main():
    return 'This is flask, I know this!'

app.run(debug=True)
@JGreenwell there you go, now you know flask ;)
import anti-gravity
good night, guys
23:44
4 more and I will have 1k :D
2 accepts vs. 7 rejects
that's sad
Hey guys! Can you tell me if this answer is bad formatted/incorrect? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/38578692/python-algorithm-finding-index-in-an-array/38578723#38578723
Got a downvote and no idea why :/
cause it looks a "gimme the code" question? (I'm assuming as every answer was downvoted)
@JGreenwell So what does it have to do with the answers? :P The question should be downvoted, not the answers
some people downvote both
punish all guilty parties and all that, I guess
trying to guess at a single downvote is hard cause people vote for weird reasons (including "I had a bad day today and want to be extra strict/mean/etc...")
23:57
@JGreenwell It's funny and annoying at the same time :P

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