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16:05
I'm telling you that I did exactly what you did, and got the expected value. — davidism 2 mins ago
Das Keyboard RGB mechanical with REST API: kickstarter.com/projects/1229573443/…
Your keyboard is now connected to the internet. (I guess it always was, indirectly.)
derp I'm dumb
@davidism I’m confused. When they say cloud connected, do they actually mean that the configuration you do is stored on some server and instructions are sent from the cloud and you actually need an internet connection for the keyboard to work?!
I choose to believe that the keyboard works as normal without a connection, but you can't change the colors.
yeah, by “work” I only mean those fancy color features
@poke I think it just syncs settings with the server, no? It probably goes to default behavior if not connected to the cloud. Razer has similar configurations for Synapse
16:17
but if that’s the case, then that’s just terrible
"It is built with ground-breaking electronics that provide superior RGB LED brightness"
must buy
Yeah, I'm not really sure why it needs to be internet connected. I'd rather have a keyboard where the lights are programmable locally.
> Das Keyboard 5Q does not need Internet connectivity to be able to function.
>
> Das Keyboard 5Q does not need any driver or software or cloud connection to work like a "normal" keyboard. However software is needed to configure the color and light effects of each keys.
>
> If installed, the Das Keyboard Q desktop app is like a configuration app (like a mouse control panel) but for setting up the keyboard color profiles and accessing the REST API. The cloud connection is only to get signals from IFTTT, Zapier, etc...
So it’s just a (likely) node app that runs a webserver on some port
But if it was programmable locally, then they wouldn't be able to mention The Cloud a thousand times in the pitch.
I can program keyboards in Node now? sweet
16:19
> Windows, being the biggest user base, is our main focus.
I like how the video was only showing mac?
So it's not the keyboard that's connected, it's some software that's communicating with the driver.
I knew it!!
"IOT / cloud-connected keyboard with mechanical RGB switches"
IoT had to be used in this..it just had to.
$140 for a mechanical keyboard is pretty good on its own.
I'll agree with that.
I still don’t think I have ever typed on a real mechanical keyboard, so I have no idea how good those would be for me
16:21
it's actually pretty nice
I worked with someone who loved mechanical keyboards and let me use one of his for a little while. It was enjoyable.
I think they vary a lot... I strongly dislike cherry MX red switches but the brown switches are fine
yeah you have to find the right cherry switch that works for you
How can you dislike reds, they're so smooth. I have a red at home and a brown at work.
This is the one I keep eyeing: daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-professional
I want to get one with blues...
16:24
“Contributions to Documentation are as important and require as much, if not more, effort as contributions to Q&A.” – As someone who has spent a lot of time and effort on Q&A, trying to make this site a great resource, I’m honestly demotivated by this statement seeing how docs is currently developing and how the early state is being used by people who are literally farming rep from the system. — poke 8 hours ago
@poke Fair. I could've phrased that better, I'm sorry. All I meant was that Documentation contributions aren't somehow "lesser" by virtue of not being Q&A. — Adam Lear ♦ 50 mins ago
^ Got a response
@davidism I hate noises :\ can't you tell from how much I complain about noise at work on this random chat room on the internet?
@poke given all the lazy copying of established answers by no names that's probably going on, I'd argue that Docs is less effort than Q&A.
@Ffisegydd @IntrepidBrit once there's a docs API (which they say there will be), we should definitely do a comparison of examples to answers.
You just submitted that a minute ago. Let the process work.
cabbage, my fellow pythoneers
I can't believe how fast it got approved - usually it takes 40 mins
80
score
11
11 examples
52 contributors
ARGH!
pythonw ≠ python 3 on mac!
(editing)
@corvid That's certainly something.
16:44
@MorganThrapp I have it, it's super intense. My whole room is lit green
@corvid It's a little much for my tastes, but I also don't like LEDs on stuff which puts me in the minority. :P
Except the Molten Core Naga, that thing had awesome LEDs.
Next up on "Computer Peripheral or JRPG Enemy"...
wat, now munich
Hey, in PPCG "avocado" is a meme
here it means yes
16:48
20
A: The Many Memes of PPCG

VTCAKAVSMoACEMeme: how does juice an avocado I have try for thirtee minut and no juic Originator: Alex A. Cultural Height: 22 September 2015 - Present Background: Alex said something dumb about avocados to PhiNotPi in chat. It has since escalated. Exhibit A: Usage example: Literally anything about avoca...

@AnttiHaapala Wow...
don't get it...?
On the bright side, political violence in Munich has never really led anywhere too terrible.
user559633
@AnttiHaapala when i mentioned germany at war with itself and you said "according to RT...", these were the sort of things i was referencing
almost there, travis ci config that compiles binary packages when I push to "release" branch on github, and then uploads them to pypi
and it works
16:52
@AnttiHaapala bet a lot of package maintainers would want this
gotta script?
it is all in github :d
@AnttiHaapala link?
66 rep today. Most in a while. 46 rep from docs...
7 hours ago, by Ffisegydd
When other people do it it's rep farming, when we do it it's moderation BD
I'd ping you but I can't type your name :D:D
the github repo is also linked there
16:54
@AnttiHaapala here's a secret: you can ping me by staring with "C".
user559633
interesting, i didn't know docs gave rep
@AnttiHaapala my name is CrazyPython, I'm not russian
user559633
that explains why people are eager to get in early
@tristan I already gained 210 rep, and that's like 20% of my rep
I can't:D
16:55
yumyumyumdeliciousrep
@AnttiHaapala works in comments :(
doesn't work here.
<!-- if version <Python 3.x> [gte 3.0] -->

<code>

<!-- end version if -->

<!-- if version <Python 2.x> [gte 2.3] -->

<code>

<!-- end version if -->
ah @u works, it is a real U
<vomit></vomit>
I thought I could get away with rep (leech) by latching on to frequently upvoted examples, until I realized I was actually contributing quite a bit
*on docs
16:58
@Ffisegydd What is that from? I need to know, so that I can run far away.
@Morgan inline formatting for different code types in docs.
Oh, wow.
@ROs and @Regulars, is it worth having a room meeting, even if a shorter one than normal, to discuss Documentation and what to do? Any new rules we may need, etc.
user559633
What did you have in mind?
does anyone recognize this time format: 2016-07-22T10:00:00.000Z? I'm trying to figure out what datetime or time method to use, but I can't figure out what the T and Z represent.
17:00
I think yes. I would like to not have this room become a constant stream of "approve this edit, please". It hasn't yet, but I worry. :P
@DirtyPenguin yes, that's a well known format.
ISO8601.
@DirtyPenguin it is iso 8601,
you cannot use datetime formats really.
ah ok, ty @Ffisegydd @AnttiHaapala
user559633
@DirtyPenguin standard ISO8601. if you're on a real OS, check out strptime or strftime
recommend you install iso8601 from pypi
17:01
@tristan Just everyone sitting down to agree what we are comfortable with. I think some "Have a look at this edit please" is probably fine as long as it's > N minutes old, etc.
@tristan wouldn't wrok well
user559633
@AnttiHaapala what wouldn't? reading documentation of where python gets it from?
user559633
@Ffisegydd Ah, okay. I'm onboard or give someone else my proxy
@tristan python datetime cannot parse iso8601 timestamps proprely
Doesn't have to be a fully quarterly meeting.
17:02
it cannot even parse the timestamps it itself produces.
e.g. if you use str(datetime) you cannot parse it back.
That has always baffled me.
@DirtyPenguin iso8601
apparently date.isoformat() documentation reads: Return a string representing the date in ISO 8601 format, ‘YYYY-MM-DD’. For example, date(2002, 12, 4).isoformat() == '2002-12-04'
@davidism thanks for handling that flag
however, that output doesn't contain the T10:00:00.000Z
17:03
@DirtyPenguin it is date's isoformat
use either of those, and you'll be fine
ah ok
datetime.now().isoformat() seems to give me what i want
do not even try to use datetime module by itself, it is counter-productive
@DirtyPenguin it doesn't
i get:
```
>>> datetime.now().isoformat()
'2016-07-22T10:04:15.987715'
```
>>> datetime(2016, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1).isoformat()
'2016-01-01T01:01:01.000001'
>>> datetime(2016, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0).isoformat()
'2016-01-01T01:01:01'
also, the timezone is not coded there.
the Z means UTC time.
17:05
@Ffisegydd When are you thinking?
datetime is unpythonic, sadly
@AnttiHaapala
@ZeroPiraeus No idea. Whenever we usually do these things, next week sometime? It's usually around 3pm UTC.
I'd say we should have the conversation sooner rather than later.
Then we can add it to sopython.com if appropriate.
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC if datetime is pythonic, then I rather use something that is unpythonic
Agreed re: sooner rather than later.
@AnttiHaapala huh?
17:07
>>> datetime.datetime.now(datetime.timezone.utc).isoformat()
'2016-07-22T17:07:23.897559+00:00'
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC because datetime is the shittiest module I've seen related to time handling in any programming languages.
and that includes php and javascript :D
and perl, and C
@AnttiHaapala yeah, I said it's unpythonic; is there a third party module that's better than datetime?
dateutil :d
user559633
ctypes and import time.h ;)
oo.
oo.
arrow
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC SOOORRY :d
i read "dateutil is unpythonic" :D
@oo. negative
ok I will fix my statement above:
you know, pypy is more compaitable with python 3 than you think
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC because datetime is the shittiest module I've seen related to time handling in any programming languages (excluding arrow of course)
It's been a while; can datetime roundtrip ISO8601 dates yet?
@ZeroPiraeus no.
17:10
all I had to do to port my code to pypy 2 was get rid of type annotations
pypy 2 faster than pypy 3
>>> datetime.datetime.now(datetime.timezone.utc).isoformat()
'2016-07-22T17:07:23.897559+00:00'
Give it another decade or so then ;-)
@ZeroPiraeus ^ strptime cannot parse timezone at random
otherwise you "can", if you have 1000 different formats
but strptime itself is also broken
user559633
let's all just stop using python and use a modern language like ES6
5
Good plan, I heard they had a better room anyway.
17:11
@tristan I will not stop using python
but if ever datetime is deprecated, I will open a bottle of champagne.
or two.
user559633
let's move to ruby
>>> datetime.datetime.now(datetime.timezone.utc).isoformat().replace('+00:00', 'Z')
'2016-07-22T17:11:12.046541Z'
user559633
don't let your memes be dreams
@DirtyPenguin ^there is your output
@DirtyPenguin for input, use iso8601.parse_date
user559633
raw strftime
17:13
cool, thx @AnttiHaapala
though, it will not always output the fractions...
if the other party wants fixed fractions, then you'll have trouble again
(e.g. if the other party is Python... and is not using dateutil/iso8601/something)
@tristan I was transpiled using babel and look at how I turned out
@poke what's happening there?
17:23
@Ffisegydd Yeah, a Documentation meeting would be a good idea. Currently, I favour the idea of Python Documentation having its own room.
@AnttiHaapala - where is datetime.timezone imported from?
PYthon docs does have its own room
Where?
oops, ninja'd
17:24
Thanks
please let's not split up the work more
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC python 3
@MattGiltaji you know you get a ton of reputation in docs
I see you only have 210
damn that username :D
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yeah i've gotten 20 something rep so far
Yesterday, I had 680 rep and now I have 910 @MattGiltaji
Don't worry, it will get recalculated down to more sane amounts at some point.
most of it from fixing someone's code formatting
Hint: add to the popular examples. I saw a bunch of popular low-quality (50 upvotes) posts and I improved them quite a bit
17:26
@davidism A reasonable request. OTOH, please don't flood this room with Docs stuff. So we need a meeting to sort that out.
"Germany’s Muencher Abendzeitung reported that up to 15 people were killed in a shooting in a shopping mall in the southern city of Munich."
I also am not a fan of splitting work up with separate rooms, after all we're meant to be representatives of the Python community on Stack Overflow, not just for SO Q+A. But yes, this is why we need a meeting.
the sepreate room has no activity
also i'd like to announce that I am responsible for the double exception topic in docs
8
Q: Approving two suggested edits to a requested topic creates duplicate topics

Matt GiltajiI went to the requested topic section, saw that python Exceptions had some pending reviews and took a look. One of the edits had a large set of great examples so I accepted it, creating a Python Exceptions topic. Looking through the other suggestions for the topic, I saw that a different edit h...

getting rep from Documentation does not feel fulfilling - when I answer a question I know I directly helped solve a problem or educated someone. Whereas, documentation feels like I'm just re-writing the actual Python docs or that I could just link to some answer on SO Q&A.
17:28
I don't think "review pls" or discussing an example is any different than the "pls" requests we already make and the canonical discussions we have.
@JGreenwell I'm doing it for the bounty rep
@PM2Ring i am opposed
@PM2Ring there is already a separate room for python 3
I'm already beyond my daily rep cap
@AnttiHaapala and does anyone use it?
@JGreenwell I think of it as reducing the overall average quality of Python documentation. For points!
@JGreenwell i feel like some libraries have fantastic docs, others were a pain for me to understand, so if i can improve on that for the next person, then i've done good
17:29
@AnttiHaapala this is the kind of docs I write
I created it
and it hasn't been edited much
@JGreenwell Depends on which parts of docs you work on. I'm hoping to get a collection of examples together on all the data vis libraries (something close to my heart) this weekend. I'm doing this so there is a set place where they can be directly compared and also as an excuse to try the different libraries out :P
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yeah, in my opinion official django docs are pretty bad.
@AnttiHaapala I think they're pretty good, actually
But that kind of stuff is more fulfilling than re-writing the stdlib docs, yes.
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC every now and then I look into them and I find nothing
17:31
@Ffisegydd and there is so little activity in django
@AnttiHaapala they are good when you are first learning, but as soon as you try to dig deeper it becomes a mess of confusion
At that point I'm basically writing blog posts with community input.
I mean I find the riught place, but there is no information
I'm not saying it cannot get better, just right now it feels like just rep and not educating
the tutorial is okayish...
17:31
@AnttiHaapala yep
<- not how I'm motivated
@AnttiHaapala no range field docs. I'm making a new topic on that, so don't steal
but the last time I did it I just wanted a project set up fast; I wanted to download the end result (poll app), didn't find it, went to the channel, asked for it, they said "you have to type it in from the tutorial"
I was like "wtf guys"
@AnttiHaapala i would think it would be floating around on github by now
@MattGiltaji that was perhaps 2 years ago; but I first used django in 2007ish
17:34
but i found that going through the testing goat book taught me better django than the django tutorial
going through django source code taught me things about django that I'd rather unlearn :D
@Ffisegydd currently I just point people to the various Pycon YouTube videos so I can see how a central point for comparing the data analytic options would be neat especially since half the questions I get seem to be "what algorithm should I use for X" types
The fundamental, base property that distinguishes documentation from other resources like blogs, Q&A etc. is that it is authoritative. This ... thing ... cannot be so, by definition. There are good projects out there to make documentation better, e.g. readthedocs. All this can do is dilute efforts to create actual documentation, and provide an extra source of bad fake documentation to confuse people.
Yeah. And I'm explicitly not going to go into details of how to use it, just link to the docs for details
@ZeroPiraeus but how can the python docs be authoritative if I didn't write them?
17:37
I will point out that I was proud of how I earned my 800ish reputation - well received answers which added value - and watching people get rep using this copy&paste seems like it devalues all my effort (beyond the regular gaming methods like minor edits to get to 2k)
@ZeroPiraeus I think one issue is that we have amazing docs...other languages do not :P other languages might genuinely be thankful for this.
For other languages it might be that the SO community can do a better job than the "official documentation"
esp with data - tons of numpy, scipy, matplotlib, and etc docs and tutorials (I'm still amazed at the number of people who ask me basic questions about NLTK and haven't read the official book)
@JGreenwell I have the printware
Wikipedia works because it prohibits originalism, but instead cites authoritative sources. SOD implicitly and falsely claims to be an authoritative source, which is impossible on the crowdsourcing model.
7
17:41
English wikipedia works.
@Ffisegydd This is true, and in many cases SOQA does do a better job than official documentation already. It has the further advantage that it doesn't lie about what it actually is.
brief recbg, I'm glad to see not much has changed in our shitty little neck of the woods
@Kevin can userscripts add service workers? It would be interesting to enable notifications of any activity in a room, even when I'm not pinged or in the room.
In principle, userscripts can do anything that native javascript could do on that page, plus a little extra.
Ex. sending html requests not bound by the same origin policy
Not sure if that answers your question because I don't know what a service worker is, beyond the single paragraph summary I read on developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API
Somehow I get the feeling that half of SO Docs users are firefighters armed with thimbles, and the rest are simple arsonists
hey not that long until dopolympics
Not anymore! Now the ruskies aren't in (sorry vault D:)
wonder how they think they're going to surpass the opening ceremony of london
17:54
@AnttiHaapala hm?
@poke in München
I have no idea, apparently no one has
@AnttiHaapala In fairness, Brazilians know how to put on a show.
@ZeroPiraeus Good acronym. I suppose that eventually the quality of Docs will improve as contributions from actual topic experts replace the misguided efforts of enthusiastic newbies. OTOH, I fail to see the benefit of creating docs by getting experts to edit crap rather than just letting them create quality docs from scratch.
17:54
not even the police unfortunately :/
let's just hope it's as serious as your last shooting
what was the last one?
the last time we had a shooting spree in a shopping mall, it was a refugee, muslim and so on yes, but it was the case of one insane guy slaughtering the colleagues of his ex.
"cinema shooting, 57 injured", turns out all those injured were from police tear gas, and the single man down was the perpetrator with a plastic gun
unfortunately, we already have 3 confirmed deaths :/
17:56
shit:(

RangeFields - a group of PostgreSQL specific fields (topic draft)

edited on jul 22 '16 at 17:58 by uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC 926
added 7 examples, added syntax section, added remarks section
@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC wrong link?
@AnttiHaapala review, pls

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