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10:00
graphics is alright, not great by nowadays standards
@ChaoticTwist "outside"? I keep on hearing rumours of such a thing... sounds scary :p
@JonClements It is. Respawn time sucks as well :P
i miss the ability to timewarp when i'm out IRL
I still have 3 lives left
#toomuchkerbal
@Withnail or clipping through walls? :p
Turkish demockracy <3
@Ffisegydd you thought things in the UK are bad, just look at Turkey now :D
Sometimes after long hours of GTA, I'd get these strong urge to just jack the cars I saw on road.
:| don't even start me about clipping. I placed a piece on the Mun while I was building a base last night and it clipped into the ground, bounced in the air, landed on the station and wiped everything out, was like napalm.
@ChaoticTwist Damn this traffic jam, I could just mount that kerb and drive on the pavement, yeah?
Hit a few annoying peds on the way, take their money.
10:04
I don't believe that real life is GTA fellas :p
@Withnail, I live in India, it's a good day when someone isn't driving on the pavement
oh man...
Actually, it's a good day if you find pavements at the side of your road
In fact, one of our biggest movie stars has a case against him because he was drunk and ran over 4-5 homeless people sleeping on the pavement.
(Obligatory disclaimer: i'm just exaggerating for the humor. It is not that bad, the bit about the actor is true though)
hehe
@ChaoticTwist just need to pay the right guys then :D
10:11
@AnttiHaapala The proceedings of that case are funny
people actually sympathize with him now because the "crime" happened 10 years back and he's overturned public perception regarding him by making crowd pleasing movies, starting a charity etc. So much that the High Court (State level court) exonerated him. But the victims' family has taken it to the supreme court. Another 5-8 years until that case is on the docket
Yeah. That
He didn't get jail time for that though
He spent some time in jail for hunting protected black bucks. But spent just a few days for the "alleged manslaughter"
yeah...
exactly.
That 5 year sentence was overturned
of course
in Finland we have this nice punishment called "day-fines"
10:18
So you just pay a fine and go?
so you are fined based on your income or wealth for about much as you'd net in one day
for minor offences
if you refuse to pay they'd take you to prison for as many days
Oh. Based on your income? that's fair!
if you're an unemployed student, then 6 eur per day
if you're a formula 1 driver then it is a bit more
better not be caught speeding
Hehe. Imagine the restraint needed to be a F1 driver and not speed.
Indeed. Was looking at F1 salaries the other day, apparently, Button gets 13m EUR/year.
Which answers the 'why is he still racing, he looks miserable?' question...
10:20
@AnttiHaapala Sounds sensible.
35k a day.
in 2005 kimi räikkönen was fined 12 day fines.
if he were a unemployed student, then ... 84 €, but Kimi paid > 10000 € :D
He gets stupid amounts of money a year. He was one of the highest paid sportsmen in the world at one point. Would love to see the transcripts from that court case. "Why were you speading Mr Raikkonen?" "I had to take a sheeet."
hs.fi/autot/a1425353937761 <- this guy exceeded the limit by 23km/h
was fined 54k€, guy says "this is sick"
I like this brand of justice
10:23
he complains that if he'd been driving slower, just 19 km/h over the limit, he'd been fined constant 400 €
and complaining that he is considering moving out of the country.
Good bye, I say.
Quite. People who're in favour of less government never move to say, Somalia. Go nuts! Live your minarchist dream!
6
here, have a star
hehe found a way to onebox any image even though the url doesn't end in .jpg
... just put the .jpg in query string
10:27
How?
Nice...TIL
living in Finland is unbearable, because if he is caught speeding he needs to pay his 12 day income in fines. which is unfair because a poor workers only need to pay their 12 day income if caught doing the same
well, it's kinda opposite here recently in India. If you say anything against the country (in the way of criticism), people politely ask you to fuck off to pakistan because you're obviously a traitor. -_-
ahhah someone was fined 26k€ for driving through a red light
Wow
How fast?
no, driving through red light :d
10:41
But presumably he earns a fortune
ofc.
that was 6 day fines...
had he been a student, then 36 €
but their argument is that "they'd still feel annoyed paying 36 € or even 360 € so that they'd not do it again"
Git sucks, not windows?
@AnttiHaapala if they're that rich then setting it at 360 means they can just go through red lights
Unless there's a secondary mechanism, like "points" in the UK, where if you get too many you're banned
10:45
if you think you're paying too much for driving through then don't do it any longer.
@RobertGrant well there isthat too
I was more replying to the fact that you're saying it's unfair that the fine is income based
I am not saying, I am quoting :D
I like that it is income based. It's fair
if you go to jail, the days are equally long, were you rich or poor
Oh okay
10:48
ofc there are those criminals who feel better when they're in ...
@ChaoticTwist Hi Fellow countryman.
cbg @Anarach
or should i say.. Cabbage
@ChaoticTwist I can see some Salman bashing going on.. Ha ha ha..
It was unintended
:p
bad people need to go to jail
good people can kill others without punishment.
10:59
Dont worry.. I am not a Fanatic . . Especially who has been playing GTA for the last 10 years
@AnttiHaapala how punisher of you
on the road
@Anarach did you go through the entire chat history? or are you just stalking me :P
@ChaoticTwist ROFL hell No..
I am just a peasant who wants to learn python :-p
@Anarach there you go
reddit.com/r/learnpython
11:02
Umm .. I hate reddit. Sorry.. But site looks cluttered.. Thank you kind person!
Haven't been there myself. But there's a subreddit for everything, so i just added /r/learnpython
same with Quora.. People tend to spend lot of time on Quora which needs moderation. or is it just me being in SE environment for a long time , expecting discipline everywhere :-p
@AnttiHaapala How would you define good/bad. Everyone is good from their POV
moneywise :P
Moneywise?
11:07
the one who's got lots of money is good
Oh so you're basically saying the system is screwed up?
basically yes :D
Oh, for a moment I was confused.
I thought you were expressing your views :p
3 hours ago, by tristan
sometimes i can't tell when you're being sarcastic
l = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
"4" in l
true
some JS fun
11:12
@khajvah [0, 1, 2, 3, 5]
?
109
A: Determine if string is in list in JavaScript

SLaksYou can call indexOf: if (['a', 'b', 'c'].indexOf(str) >= 0) { //do something }

ugly as hell
try l=[0,1,2,3,5]
then make another function
doesn't work on IE
@AnttiHaapala wat
why is "4" in list object?
because it is not "in list" test.
it is "does object have a property by this name"
yeah but why>?
11:19
because that is how the language turned out to be after 2 weeks of planning
"4" seems to be an amazing property name
or is it the index?
yeah index
nvm
the confusion was because I didn't know I could index a list with a string
@khajvah you're really confused.
'4' is a property name.
"It's need-driven and self-healing" and "Your generosity, your content."
11:33
0
score
1
example
3 contributors
86
score
8
example
23 contributors
@AnttiHaapala so the array is nothing more than just an object that binds ":integer" to values?
@khajvah of course it is. It's got a magic .length attribute
ok thanks
>>> var x = {}; x[5] = 42; x.length
undefined
var x = []; x[5] = 42; x.length
6
eyah got it
11:37
but you can also set any other properties:
var x = []; x[5.5] = 42; x.length
0
I don't like this "everything is a dictionary" thing
this is everything is an object
Everything is an object
(enlarged the an in there)
I wasn't pointing out a mistake. I just posted it at the same time you did :P
11:42
everything is an object.
though
yeah but in python everything is an object as well. I was about the key-value thingy
everything is an object
everything is an object
I just started a war
and ... "everything is an object"
hmm
What's an object?
11:43
@Ffisegydd Everything
or perhaps every thing
every thing
12:16
cabbage
Will docs will be as bad as it first sounds? In particular, with endless flow of rep coupled to the main site?
maybe it will divert the rep whores away from main though
cbg
12:32
have you seen the new doc thing with SO?
Yeah
Meta.SO is flooded with questions about it
PaNdEmOnIuM
FiZz Is GoOd
Cabbage
12:38
\o
It's kinda hard not to notice "the new doc thing", with that giant banner at the top of the page. :)
I'm glad "dismiss" dismisses future banners.
I suppose I should check it out, but I don't have enough motivation today.
I wonder how soon we'll see horrible doc-based gold badgers running around
Does not include internet points that apply to my current SO pointage.
fun_level -= 1
12:43
what?
Do you get rep for documentation?
yes
same rep system
(that's my main issue with it)
ooooh
oh no
I think there's even a rep cap missing as of yet
cbg @PM2Ring @vaultah
12:44
hehe - Solution - Use a real frackin' editor
2

Indentation (topic request)

requested by Elazar 7.8k
cbg all
giant banners are annoying
@AndrasDeak oh wow, as in it increases SO rep?
@JGreenwell yeah exactly - why shouldn't giants be in places?
Are you guys ever asked to do some task, then after, asked to explain how it works to the other engineers? Is it unreasonable to expect other engineers on the same team to read through and understand the code on their own?
12:48
Badges and Reputation are shared across Q&A and Documentation.

The existing Q&A reputation and badge systems have been extended to Documentation. You still have one number, your total reputation, which is a measure of how much you've helped your fellow developers.
if they were going to make it giant; then the should have made a documentation game like the April Fools ones
I guess my feelings haven't changed much since:
Oct 10 '15 at 11:34, by PM 2Ring
Hi, Xavier. Sorry, I haven't been following the progress of the documentation project - I have mixed feelings about it.
then I would have forgiven them
12:48
they need to put syntax colors
I'm glad I can gain a lot of rep by perpetuating cargo cult programming.
Or as the PR department puts it, It's all about examples.
@corvid depends on many things. If you can summarise what's happening and then explain anything that might be surprising (who in the business wanted that rule and why) then it makes your code much more maintainable in the future
@corvid yes, also to other development teams and then about three other groups of which only one has any technical knowledge
people love their meetings
Or as Kevin Montrose put it, Examples, examples, examples - show beats tell.
@AndrasDeak is it worth adding a documentation section explaining "Breathless Stack Overflow Announcements"
12:50
if you add it, I'll review:P
cargo cult
@corvid Yes. Depending on the scope of the task it might be kept to demo time at the end of the sprint. Or it will be a design session with the team to explain the approach and reasoning of why the solution was put together in such a way. Also, expect to know how to talk about your code, because someone on your team can ask you questions if they don't understand something
@AndrasDeak but it's every pull request :\ and since it's based on boilerplate code, it's just adding the same components here and there
okay, I read the blog - I still don't get it
12:52
@corvid I wasn't talking to you (or maybe I'm misunderstanding you)
alright. I got a badge for reading the doc tour
inserts in to veins
I was hoping when I read this that it would make more sense when it came out
I admit I haven't delved deep into the workings of the new system, but it doesn't seem very clear or sustainable
Shog's comment is what makes me think that
Until enough folks with different needs get a crack at using it, we're really not gonna have a solid idea of what's needed or missing.
Isn't their suppose to be a need or problem before a solution is made?
Well, private beta has passed, they assumedly got a buttload of feedback
We’ve clearly put a lot of thought into Documentation, and the private beta a few thousand (seriously, wow guys) Stack Overflow users participated in has taught us a lot more but…
from the meta bulletin
of course it goes on explaining that they don't know how it should work
yeah, but any project that starts with a statement like that, from my experience, is doomed to fail (scope creep being the main reason too)
12:59
I think I'll just watch as my laboriously gathered rep slowly devaluates into nothing:P
We'll always value you.
wait?! rep has value ;P
@Ffisegydd if that came from anybody else, I'd be touched
I just need my 20 for chat :)
but thanks anyway, Fizzy;)
12:59
Morning cabbage.
throws pokeball at Morgan
@AndrasDeak no mention of how much we value you at, but rest assured, as with all chat room members, you have been assigned a dollar value
:D
I just hope that it has at least two digits
added to pokedex
13:01
I'm a bit concerned about the conversion rate...
The potency of life (or cost of life) is an economic value assigned to life in general, or to specific living organisms. In social and political sciences, it is the marginal cost of death prevention in a certain class of circumstances. In many studies the value also includes the quality of life, the expected life time remaining, as well as the earning potential of a given person especially for an after the fact payment in lawsuits for wrongful death. As such, it is a statistical term, the cost of reducing the average number of deaths by one. It is an important issue in a wide range of disciplines...
Invalid flag there. Absolutely valid meme.
oh, okay. Wow. I did not realize Documentation is adding rep to main SO......that's a horrible idea
3
especially as I look through the approved edits which would be too trivial to be approved on SO and give +5 (I think) rep to people
@JGreenwell this may help those who want to reach 20k but don't want to answer crap questions :D
13:09
@JGreenwell yes exactly
I got rep today for edits I made in the private beta.
@JGreenwell here
it's good to document things down, but no rep should be given
If I'd have known this would happen, I'd have whored it while the population was low and gotten loads of edits in for future upvotes.
Also,
13:10
@Ffisegydd same here.
But now that everyone can edit, it'll be more difficult.
Fizzysad.
Jeff Atwood is rolling in his figurative grave
On the other hand, my geo hashing and temporal hashing algorithms are working. I even wrote them in Java \o/
+10.....that's nuts
+2 rep, like for edits on questions when you're below 3k, then maybe that'd be understandable.
13:13
I want to rep farm
rep=coolness
it literally makes me think "I have to start editing documentation or I'll soon have so little rep that it will make me look like I'm back at less then 100 rep and don't know anything"
I don't like being forced into stuff on a site I do for fun and teaching people
Why are you forced into it (rep getting) though?
feels that way
sorry, meant to add that and brain didn't quite catch up to fingers
I find this devalues rep by adding something that makes it extremely easy to get rep for now.
However
is that necessarily a bad thing?
Looking at it in the perspective as a company looking to get people to use your services. If you make something more accessible, you will get more people to use it
which ultimately, is what you want.
Rep means nothing to me anymore, it's void and meaningless. Mostly because I've met Martijn, must be how people feel who live overlooking Everest.
13:18
We'll, currently I feel really proud, not about my rep, but about the fact that if one looks at my answers they are positive scores with a good number of accepted. So the 10 for all edits seems to trivialize answerers on the main
Great SO profile description:

I cared about rep. Then I met Martijn.
@Ffisegydd after 20k - it's pretty much meaningless anyway really
@idjaw :-D
Where?
Ah, not anywhere.
:) I was writing it on behalf of Fizzy.

But I did meet you......in my dreams <3
I'll go back to Grumpy Cat now then.
13:19
o.O
So. If I took this topic request, and just put this answer. Am I doing it right? :P
My websocket client doesn't terminate on ctrl-C. This bothers me. I don't suppose asyncio has a loop_forever_or_until_keyboardinterrupt_whichever_comes_first method?
I think it does.
Maybe not with what exact name.
I'm spending quite a substantial amount of time here. Every evening when I talk my GF, I'm mentionning SO ...
13:25
ctrl-c is a signal, right? Maybe BaseEventLoop.add_signal_handler will do something.
Feel free to add more examples, not sure documentation is my strongest skill.
I dislike the notion that examples are ordered by votes. You could have an example that's a natural introduction but which has less votes than others and so comes lower in the list.
^^ Yeah I agree. For example, what Martijn just posted. You ultimately want that to be the order of the examples, regardless of votes.
Ah, see! When it loaded for me it was all the wrong order!
Because the votes are all the same, it's random.
I started reading it and thought "Oh wow Martijn really has jumped in here, maybe I should add an intr- oh no wait it's just at the bottom of the page!"
I don't like this documentation project at all. Examples might be useful but I don't understand why would I come to SO instead of going to the official docs
13:29
Google/SO tells me that ctrl-break will work even though ctrl-C doesn't. Problem solved, sort of.
@khajvah serving help vampires, one example at a time:P
@khajvah Python official docs are top-notch.
not all projects are that lucky.
I'm told CUDA sucks big time
@Ffisegydd Agreed. Eg, if a topic has important corner cases, then examples that illustrate those could easily win more votes than the intro examples, if SO voting behaviour is any guide to what wiil happen on Docs.
@Kevin Can't you capture ctrl-c with something similar to this ?
13:30
and I've struggled with opencv docs
they are there, but a confusing labyrinth of information
Goes on to write an exec topic in every dynamic language
@idjaw Theoretically but I'm not confident that it would play nice with the libraries I'm using.
@davidism when you're about - are you able to set up a couple of email forwarding accounts on the sopython domain?
sure
I just realised why Kevin wants to work on rabbit.
@Ffisegydd stew and dumplings?
13:32
Feature #1: Spoiler machine. Feature #2: GIF search engine. Feature #3: Sorry got no time for anything else right now.
@Ffisegydd we should set a ground rule that @Kevin is only allowed to commit edits to rabbit that are written in KevinScript(tm)
I'm simple and thus am most interested in the project that has the most easily-observed output. Leave the machine learning data analytics to the smarties, I just want to play hangman with my artificial friend.
@Kevin Not sure what you are using. But I wrote up an ssh server that is used by twisted to simulate a certain hardware device and I provided triggers for various keyboard commands. As long as you can interpret the keys it should work.
(I'm not actually going to implement hangman though)
But again...I'm not sure what you are using.
13:34
@Kevin Yeah please don't... there's already a bot in another room that does that and it's a PITA
@idjaw Cool, that increases my confidence. I'll put it on my list.
Oh I've seen that hangmany bot...
Can we have a quiz bot?
@Ffisegydd No.
But...
13:36
For now I want to stick with davidism's design of "doesn't recognize commands sent via chat." Privileged users will get a special side-window or something they can use to talk to rabbit.
... But I'm getting ahead of myself. There's much infrastructure work to do before the minimal viable product stage.
Ok :)
@khajvah If you want to read the saga of Jarrod & his bounties, see meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/327885/… TL;DR The SOCVR needs more people with enough rep to close-vote and to delete-vote. So Jarrod has taken it upon himself to use bounties to "accelerate" the rep of random SOCVR regulars that he deems worthy. Not all SOCVR regulars are happy about this, and it caused a bit of controversy.
user559633
cbg
13:39

Flask

Python web application micro framework
come help edit the Flask documentation
user559633
on github?
Because there's not enough people stepping on each others' toes contributing to the introduction page already.
On SO. :-(
I’m super unmotivated to go to the documentation section
user559633
Oh, why would I do that?
Now I have to police two areas for the tag, not just one. ;_;
user559633
13:40
It already has an official documentation page, which is close to the development, and the code itself
user559633
warlords of documentation is a totally good idea you guys
@tristan you and me think too much alike.
user559633
can't wait for paypal to say "the official paypal support and API documentation is on stackoverflow"
in Flask, 1 min ago, by Ffisegydd
Hi guys I need help with my Flask question.
in Flask, 1 min ago, by tristan
Is it okay to ask questions about flask here?
user559633
ya
13:42
Snort.
user559633
great minds troll alike
First you need to establish whether it's okay to ask whether it's okay to ask questions about flask here.
@tristan Sick minds. ftfy
user559633
sick minds think rad thoughts
in Flask, 12 secs ago, by tristan
is it okay to ask django questions in here? the django room isn't active
Nice.
user559633
13:43
does a kickflip over ur moderation
what's skateboarding got to do with this?
user559633
@JonClements censorship!
user559633
mod abuse! (but love them really, especially Jon and Martijn!!!)
13:58
@tristan I don't believe you.
:DD
this will blend in nicely with the civil war brewing on the main site
few more blue bodies, nobody will notice:P

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