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2:00 PM
I can't believe I just admitted to that
 
@idjaw have my star
 
@idjaw eeew
 
It was the cool guy on the block back then. :(
it wasn't my fault. I was just falling in to the crowd
peer pressure and all
 
Most classes give choice of Java or C++
 
@idjaw I feel with you.
 
2:01 PM
nobody allowed Python
 
@khajvah Hmm my brother is now studying software engineering - but it's all c# there now.
Both at uni & HBO
 
@paul23 my professors are old
 
Thanks @poke :)
 
Good he can see sharp
 
Java was the cool kid on the block when I was in school. BUT I DIDN'T FALL FOR THAT TRAP.
 
2:01 PM
too old for C#
 
The practical project I did with 11 other students during my master’s, we implemented it in PHP.
 
yeah...similar. Our database class project needed a web interface. So we did it in PHP
 
Now comes the weird part: PHP is actually not as bad as everyone wants it to be nowadays.
 
@khajvah heh I had my prof teach me python talking about it like it was assembly using xors to swap integers "cause it uses less memory".
 
@paul23 but I study comp science. Software engineering must be different
@paul23 damn
puurrrrformance
 
2:02 PM
Modern PHP is maybe even better designed than Java.
 
@khajvah Same BSc I think? (At least in the Netherlands)
 
@paul23 we actually dont have soft engineering degree
comp science and applied mathematics only
 
applied mathematics sounds cool
 
@paul23 Did the scammers really know the IP, or did they just use a trick, like this:
Nov 27 '15 at 12:39, by PM 2Ring
user image
 
I did a project with PHP once upon a time and it was really not a fun language to work with. It's obviously usable but god damn I would take any scripting language alternative.
 
2:04 PM
perl?
:D
 
At my uni we have also the degree only "computer science" and applied mathematics. - However in the computer science degree you have multiple "tracks", "theoretical software science" "software engineering", "embedded systems" etc.
 
@PM2Ring wow, a countryman of mine!
 
Ok, I hear that one's pretty bad too. But my friend in College actually did tons of cool web programming in perl so who knows.
 
@PM2Ring Orange Armneia?
 
@AndrasDeak Lol, that is your IP :D
 
2:05 PM
@PM2Ring I think that one :P
 
:(
*stupid*
or am I?
 
SOPython IP Sniffer :D
 
I think the problem with PHP is mostly that 80% of the things you find about PHP online is still examples of using PHP inline with HTML. That’s what makes it dangerous. And it exists in so many other languages (JSP, ASP) and is equally wicked there. – But it sticks to PHP more than to the others.
 
@AndrasDeak Where are you from?
 
If even smart programmers can be fooled by stuff like that, imagine what effect it has on muggles.
 
2:06 PM
:D
 
I think the problem with PHP is it was made in the 90's when we were still figuring things out.
 
@QuestionC Python too....
 
@QuestionC Same here...a few years ago I was neck deep in perl code that was running a massive provisioning system. It was pretty interesting.
 
Python: First appeared: 20 February 1991; 25 years ago
 
I didn't realize images hot-loaded
 
2:07 PM
Java: First appeared: May 23, 1995; 20 years ago
 
@PM2Ring and I'm not a smart programmer:(
 
PHP: First appeared: 1995; 21 years ago
 
The only nice thing I have to say about PHP is that going from "knowing nothing and having nothing installed" to "serving a non-static page" is pretty painless.
 
Doesn’t add up :P
 
and I'm at the in-laws, so different ISP as it should be
 
2:08 PM
I have a very short fuse when it comes to installation processes, so I was thankful for that
 
@khajvah Hungary, btw
 
"msvcrt.dll not found? I guess I'm not going to work on this project after all."
 
I always kind of assumed Python was a toy language until 2. But I guess I just made that up.
It's very hard to google any information about Python 1.
 
I have this algorithm course. I feel bad how trivial the exam is going to be
 
what level?
 
2:10 PM
> Find the exact number of key comparisons QuickSort will do at specified input
it's the first one.
 
@Kevin Which Python version?
 
@idjaw Into to Algorithm
 
ah yes I remember that course. Back then I wasn't interested in programming that much. I was starting a degree in electrical engineering
 
It's in chronological order, so start from the bottom.
 
2:12 PM
@poke This was an error message from a month ago, so I'm hazy on the details. But I was probably pip installing something for 2.7.
 
@idjaw I haven't gone to classes for a month but studied everything in a day.
 
I don't think you have anything to worry about @khajvah :) Good luck though
 
thank you sir
 
kinda reminds me of my VHDL course. I showed up to the first course, then midterm and final
 
2:12 PM
I'm pretty sure I already have msvcrt.dll on my computer somewhere... But searching for it requires more give-a-damn points than I was willing to spend
 
it was a friday night class from 5PM to 9PM
who does that???
 
oh vhdl
 
I did quite a bit with VHDL in university....because I switched from electrical to computer hardware engineering mid-way
 
>
A new built-in function, apply(), was added to support functions that
need to call other functions with a constructed argument list. The call

apply(function, tuple)
Huh.
 
@Morgan before splatting :)
 
2:15 PM
I just assumed splatting always existed. :P
 
doesn't sound trivial:P
 
apply is pretty common amongst functional languages, as I understand it.
I know JS has it too.
 
I was going to search for "added lists" but got lazy
 
Or something that does the same thing with a different name.
 
Yeah, splatting was added in 1.6
 
2:15 PM
yup, map and apply are the shit
nowadays mapreduce as well, I guess:P
Mathematica and its @@~?~?!!!#&/.@@@ stuff
 
> - Fixed a bug in list.sort() that would occasionally dump core.
Well, that's good I guess.
I really wish Pycharm had support for installing wheels into a specific venv. :/
 
2:43 PM
This stackoverflow.com/questions/36219317/pathname-too-long-to-open is a dupe of stackoverflow.com/questions/14075465/… ... But the answer in the first is better than the target. ... Do we just leave them alone?
 
I assume that if 0 <= range(4): raises an error in Python 3. From stackoverflow.com/questions/36264327/…
 
Hmmm, is there a way with wheel install to ignore debug build errors? From the github of wheel it says that those errors get thrown incorrectly, but that was 2 months ago.
C:\Users\mpthrapp\PyACH\lib\site-packages\wheel\pep425tags.py:77: RuntimeWarning: Config variable 'Py_DEBUG' is unset, Python ABI tag may be incorrect
  warn=(impl == 'cp')):
C:\Users\mpthrapp\PyACH\lib\site-packages\wheel\pep425tags.py:81: RuntimeWarning: Config variable 'WITH_PYMALLOC' is unset, Python ABI tag may be incorrect
  warn=(impl == 'cp')):
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I’ve never used wheel install, is that equivalent to pip i?
 
@poke Maybe? I've never used pip i :P
 
:D
 
2:46 PM
C:\Users\mpthrapp\PyACH\Scripts>pip i
ERROR: unknown command "i"
 
Isn’t i just a shortcut for install? Or am I confusing this with a different package manager again?
meh
I probably am
 
I think you might be.
C:\Users\mpthrapp\PyACH\Scripts>pip install "C:\Users\mpthrapp\Downloads\pymssql-2.1.2-cp35-cp35m-win_amd64.whl"
You are using pip version 7.1.0, however version 8.1.1 is available.
You should consider upgrading via the 'python -m pip install --upgrade pip' command.
pymssql-2.1.2-cp35-cp35m-win_amd64.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
I will end you, pymssql.
I only have to do this because they decided to yam their windows users by no longer shipping the DLL that you need.
 
Are you using CPython 3.5 64bit?
Is the pip executable a CPython 3.5 64bit pip?
py.exe -3.5 -m pip install "C:\Users\mpthrapp\Downloads\pymssql-2.1.2-cp35-cp35m-win_amd64.whl"
^ Try that instead to be explicit
 
Whoa, Python thinks my machine is 32 bit.
I'm so confused.
[MSC v.1900 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32.
 
Have we got a dupe for "how do I prevent my program's window from closing the instant it ends?"? Catch an error as the program closes in Python needs it.
 
2:51 PM
No, Python doesn’t think anything
 
@poke That's mean. :(
 
If you installed a 32bit Python, then it is a 32bit executable and as such runs as 32bit
 
@poke Am I misreading that version info? I read it as it's running 64 bit python on what it thinks is a 32 bit machine.
I may have it backwards then.
 
Hmmm eei
Win32 is OS, not your machine bitness
 
2:53 PM
Oh yes, you’re right. It’s a 64bit Python.
win32 is the platform, has nothing to do with the bit-ness
 
Oh gotcha. For some reason I thought it changed to win64.
 
Win32 as opposed to win 16 aķa DOS
 
@poke That worked, thanks!
 
:)
 
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, I just thought they had bumped it to win64 when 10 dropped, but now I'm not sure why I thought that. :P
I guess that's what I get for not being explicit with my venv activation.
 
2:57 PM
@AnttiHaapala cbg
 
There’s actually no Win64. There’s only win32 (which happens to run 64bit on 64bit Windows), and WoW64 (which runs 32bit on 64 bit Windows)
 
Rhubarb
 
Rbrb PM
 
@poke Ah yes, of course. I forgot that on windows 32 == 64.
 
:D
 
3:00 PM
Also, I'll always read WoW64 as Microsoft being amazed they lasted long enough to see a 64 bit OS.
 
lol
 
3:12 PM
There is tag…
 
Sigh, no
 
There is though
 
> Do we need to have [nike] or [puma] shoes?
Nice title for a meta post
 
> We need neither [nike] nor [puma] shoes to answer questions
 
the questions seem fine, and the tags seem relevant
 
3:29 PM
Yeah, I was surprised with how not terrible those seven questions were.
 
need a dupe target for "confusing actual data with repr output" or "how do I get rid of the u in front of a string"
 
Yeah, we do.
It's hard to find a good canonical post for it because the question takes many forms, with the only common element being the OP's map-territory confusion.
And it's usually a PEBCAK issue so there's no code to give as a quick fix
 
3:49 PM
I want a peb-CAKE
Sounds delicious
 
I need to know what peb is first.
It doesn't sound appetizing.
 
user559633
4:09 PM
anyone have standing desk recommendations?
 
I wish I had, but I don’t.
Wow, random person, unaccepting my answer two days later and accepting the other answer instead that was posted 6 minutes after mine, has the same solution but no explanation other than “this is my solution”
Sometimes, I really love this community.
 
cbg
@poke perhaps the OP thought he could accept two answers
 
@tristan now there was some article that claimed that standing isn't healthy either
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala going to get a sit/stand
 
user559633
4:20 PM
i think it's more comfortable (based on my experience)
 
I'd want a
Walking desk
 
Pro tip: don't lock your knees for an extended period of time. :p
 
Being alive is bad for your health
 
I think it’s more about moving around (sitting or standing) that’s ultimately being more healthy than not.
 
user559633
i saw someone use a walking desk one time. it was pretty stupid
 
4:22 PM
And since it’s easier to move around while standing (and you are also kind of forced to move around)..
 
Protip: Birth leads to death.
 
Nick Craver has a treadmill desk
 
Everything you do increases the entropy in the system. Things fall apart and energy expenditure only makes it worse.
All of the site icons are the same on the Hot Network Questions sidebar. Is this happening for anyone else?
 
42
Q: Meta Stack Exchange's logo shows up as "3D"

Ben NThis just started happening on non-meta sites: Meta Stack Exchange's logo in the "Featured on Meta" section seems to have been replaced with some site's logo. Mousing over the icon does produce "Meta Stack Exchange" as normal, and the link works. It even happens in the reputation and inbox dr...

 
It's an epidemic!
 
4:29 PM
pandemic, spreading rapidly across the world
 
Well that only took me forever to find:
 
speed of light minus a couple server hops... Yep that's rapid all right
 
I’m looking for a word; when you work in a team to complete something.. not competitive but com…?
 
That pinned message about should be unpinned. The link is broken.
@poke Cooperative?
 
Yes, thanks!
 
4:39 PM
Communal?
Wooo, the icons are back.
 
Yay! #teamicons
 
But the links are broken now.
 
Oh. “Oops! Something Bad Happened!”
 
Good job, SO.
I'm taking bets on what breaks next.
 
That’s almost an improvement over the previous situation.
 
4:44 PM
It's not just HNQ questions, it's all links.
They really should've posted to Code Review before rolling out this "fix".
 
:D
 
Does this mean I have to be productive at work? I don't like this. :/
 
wim
oh man
 
I luckily don’t have work today
 
wim
someone broke SO
 
4:46 PM
How can they fix SO if SO is broken?
WHERE WILL THEY FIND THE ANSWERS.
 
How are people still posting new questions!?
 
brief-rbrb .. I will have my dinner when SO is down :P
 
@poke Only opening questions is borked.
Though MSE is fine.
 
It's an issue with the CSS class generation after some directory changes - we'll be pushing out a fix ASAP. — Nick Craver ♦ 32 mins ago
Making a quick fix on a holiday. What could possibly go wrong?
 
4:50 PM
Hey, it's back up!
 
wim
why did this shitty question get so popular ? stackoverflow.com/q/36117583/674039
It's not interesting at all !
 
@wim Stack Overflow voting is actually controlled by a PRNG.
 
wim
Honestly there's something whack with that
I've seen some really interesting questions that just sit there with 0 and 1 votes
Then sometimes, ones without much substance can somehow get massive exposure
 
5:07 PM
yeah, it’s terrible
 
my dream
shame it's windows only
 
5:23 PM
Nice
 
and no wine too, because of directx 11. Too bad
 
@Ffisegydd spinning up the Sarcasmotron, Captain! I mean, "Captain".
 
5:43 PM
Cbg
 
re-cbg
 
hey
so @Antti, how long do you have to be hospitalized?
 
What happened @Antti?
 
Who linked to the quantum thing? I like it :)
 
6:44 PM
wwhat exactly is happening in that quantum thing :|
 
DSM
Midafternoon cabbage for all.
 
Without reading the source my best guess is they have a thread per possible value of x
 
How's the last week feel @DSM?
 
cabbage DSM
 
OTOH just naively spawning a thread for every possible sudoku board would take up a whole lotta memory, so maybe not
 
DSM
6:48 PM
@Programmer: so far, really busy. I have three important tasks to complete by tomorrow (the last rush), and have spent the morning teaching our agent model to a c++ guy who's going to be working on some of the core.
So today's going to be a long day, but the last long day.
 
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
 
to the last long day wine
 
I was close. Quantum uses os.fork, not threads.
I guess the sudoku solver is using non-astronomical amounts of memory due to a clever implementation of the example, rather than magic inherent to Quantum itself
 
aah makes sense now. forgot how fork worked
 
hey people :) how do i fo for loop let's say from 10 to 1 and not from 1 to 10 ? :D
 
6:55 PM
for i in range(10, 0, -1):
 
The 3 argument to range is step.
Yeah, that.
 
Hmm, I started a software update fifteen minutes ago and the progress bar is at about 5%. I wonder what catastrophe will occur when my wifi cuts out while I'm driving home.
 
thanks
 
DSM
You'll wind up in a non-functional state which will be sufficiently unique that you won't be able to find good information on the Web about how to recover from.
 
6:56 PM
s/california/SOPy
 
DSM
I'm not optimistic about your future, Kevin.
 
He's the Star Lord, His future is bright
 
I can't stay here at night. That's when ᴛʜᴇʏ come, with their glistering fangs and frumious claws.
 
Jon and thefourtheye?
 
Could be. ᴛʜᴇʏ can take the form of friends and loved ones, to better lure you deep into their lair.
 
7:05 PM
Rhubarb, Time to sleep \o
 
I think I'll close the process in task manager and open it again when i get home. If that doesn't work, I'll uninstall the program and reinstall. If that doesn't work, I'll buy a new computer. If that doesn't work, I'll forswear technology and become a park ranger.
Actually, park rangers use radios so I guess I can't forswear all technology. Just anything from after the 1960s, then.
Or do park rangers use smart phones now? How is the reception in national parks?
 
A friend of mine is a park ranger. I'll ask him.
 
First google result says "Glacier National Park is a remote place filled with pristine forests and rugged mountains. Visitors to Glacier will find that cell phone connectivity and reception is very limited." Based on no evidence I assume Glacier National Park is typical in terms of reception.
 
cbg
 
7:09 PM
Since I was equally likely to find the information about reception of any given national park, it is likely that the one I stumble upon first is near the center of the bell curve.
 
Ilja did you get my msg in skype
It crashed
 
nope
don't have skype installed at home anyway :P
 
Haha.I did juha's
 
we had an "emergency"?
 
Nope, appendicitis on holidays. @BhargavRao this was what happened ;)
@AndrasDeak if all is well they will let me leave tomorrow
So 2 days
 
7:14 PM
bloody hell :D
 
For some reason, fully half of the first page of google results for "national park cell reception" are pages specifically about Glacier National Park. They must have a really good SEO budget.
 
2 in a row in the same office ... what are the odds
 
@AnttiHaapala Sounds bad. Hope all goes well. Get well soon and Take care. :-)
I'll take leave now though, Time to sleep here. Rhubarb \o
 
I thought it was just bad Indian food that made me ache. When it didn't set overnight I went to the Uni Hospital... I am so lazy that I'd not have gone had the guy in same office not had it on this new year
@Kevin yeah the first thing to find about a park is whether you can come to sopython when you're hiking there
 
Yellowstone has 50% coverage... I can answer SO questions while I wait for Old Faithful to go off.
 
7:29 PM
@AnttiHaapala awesome, take care till then:)
 
@AndrasDeak thanks
I cannot use computer because sitting is a bit painful
 
you'll have to hammer stuff from your phone;)
 
And cant use phone much really either
 
@AndrasDeak Just be careful not to hammer the phone.
 
Can we host a second canon on sopython for C# questions? :D I think I’m going to take a while to memorize the good canonicals… >_<
 
7:33 PM
@poke Isn't that just Jon Skeet?
 
Holy sh*t. I didn't remember what the inside of elbow is called in English. I googled and realized why
 
Unfortunately no. The common practice for C# questions is to duplicate everything.
Even Skeet does that unfortunately.
I personally think that’s one additional reason why he has so much rep
 
That's why he has that rep
 
Look for example at this question which I just closed.
It was voted -3 when I closed it and the answers were upvoted with 2 and 1 at that time.
Now the question is at +1 for some reason (got 4 upvotes) and the answer is on 4.
 
One big voting ring that C# tag, I'm telling you
 
7:38 PM
@AndrasDeak I've got an IV cannula in my "elbow pit". If I use 2 hands no fluid goes in. If I use just 1 hand, I typo too much
 
oh, yeah, I understand the problem
speech-to-text?
import Siri
 
@AnttiHaapala why would you be expected to know the name of the inside of the elbow in any language? I didn't even consider that there was a name for it.
Although there probably is one.
 
leave it to the doctors to give a stupid name to something
 
Style question: for default arguments to a function, which of these styles should I use? I like the first one, but the second one looks like it might be a little more readable.
def foo(x=None):
	y = x or default_value
	# or
	if x is None:
		y = default_value
 
In Finnish elbow is kyynärpää, pää meaning head
 
7:40 PM
I'm not sure why you're being down voted to be honest. Sometimes people confuse the purpose of down voting and do so when they perceive a question to be too "simple" which is obviously not the right reason to down vote. — roryap 6 mins ago
@roryap Maybe because we should expect people to search for their problem first before posting a question? — poke 4 mins ago
@poke -- The OP obviously didn't know what to even search for. Put yourself in his/her shoes, and come up with a search phrase. — roryap 3 mins ago
@roryap To find the duplicate question target, I literally searched for “two arrays both changed c#”. — poke 32 secs ago
I don’t even.
 
Million dollar idea: an anatomic doll that you can poke with a stylus and it indicates what part it contacted.
 
Inside is kyynärtaive, elbow bend
 
@Kevin No poking please.
 
Is it a licensing problem? I'll pay 3% net for the rights to your verb.
 
Also, with the above example, x will never be a falsy value.
 
7:41 PM
@davidism see it is just the English speakers who make this difficult
 
@Kevin Interesting offer.
 
Or just use "prod", it has an open source license.
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino I do the latter 99% of the time.
The remaining 1% is when I'm feeling nostalgic for perl.
 
@Kevin Yeah, that's what I figured. I just have a bunch of defaults, and I wasn't looking forward to writing them all out.
 
That's why I like keyword arguments. Then I can do y = kwargs.get("x", default_value)
 
7:46 PM
Or pop
 
@Kevin I could do that, but I like having the arguments spelled out.
 
And delegate
 
Yeah, I like pop when I'm wrapping PIL methods or something.
def stripey_circle(**kwargs): angle = kwargs.pop("angle", 0); draw_circle(**kwargs); draw_stripes(angle)
Where draw_circle raises an exception if you pass it an unexpected angle keyword argument
Anyway, if you really want to do y = x or default_value I don't think anyone will mind. Maybe leave a comment for the sake of readers that don't remember how short circuiting works.
 
Eh, I ended up realizing that I can get away with only one default, so I just did if is None.
 
Aternatively, leave no comment, so you can farm some sweet rep later when your successor reads your code and asks "how does this work?" on the main site.
That's what the pros call "playing the long game"
 
7:54 PM
Suddenly my coworker's code makes sense.
 
wim
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since quantum does a waitpid, there is no concurrency. So it's just like a particularly expensive implementation of StupidSort
 
@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino he must've dragged you down to his own level;)
 
I wish Python’s grammar was explicit enough that it would allow keywords as member names.
 

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