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DSM
DSM
16:00
That took longer than I was expecting, mostly because (1) I didn't understand how seriously Rust takes variable lifetimes and (2) its chaining surprised me.
:)
but that took less than an hour
so you were still within your original prediction
DSM
DSM
Yep, I'll call that a win. Lot of "borrowed value does not live long enough" errors on the way. ;-)
now you know rust, neo.
DSM
DSM
It's actually kind of interesting. I get the feeling it's a little like moving from Python 2 to 3 w.r.t unicode -- at first the fact that everything you do crashes is frustrating, but when you finally grok the rules you're playing under it makes sense.
That moment when someone duped a question you just answered and find you almost verbatim re-created the dupe answer which you wrote yourself.
(in other words, thanks @vaultah for the dupe close)
16:12
@Martijn Props to your brain for still thinking in the same way ;)
stackoverflow.com/questions/36211327/… stackoverflow.com/questions/36212349/… – One more vote needed to undelete the questions OP deleted instead of accepting an answer
DSM
DSM
Already undelvd. I hate that OP play.
@MartijnPieters: haha, no problem :P
And they are open, thanks :)
I voted in spirit :P
go team go
I appreciate that @idjaw, you were a big mental help!
16:16
I do what I can
I voted in high spirits
Do we need to keep wrong answers alive? E.g stackoverflow.com/a/29501938/4099593
no, we don’t
DSM
DSM
Huh, I didn't know Armin R was such a big Rust guy.
who is that?
mitsuhiko
16:19
@DSM oh yeah, his articles on it are the reason I really want to get into it too.
There are two prominent ABIs in use on Windows: the native (MSVC) ABI used by Visual Studio, and the GNU ABI used by the GCC toolchain. Which version of Rust you need depends largely on what C/C++ libraries you want to interoperate with: for interop with software produced by Visual Studio use the MSVC build of Rust; for interop with GNU software built using the MinGW/MSYS2 toolchain use the GNU build.
Meh, decisions…
How would I know what libraries I want to interop with? How about none? I want to program stuff in Rust, not in C :(
probably pick gnu then
But if I ever want to use some libraries, it’s more likely that I want to use MSVC…
or, switch to Linux ;-)
I’ll make my decision depend on whether I have C++ tooling installed for VS…
16:22
So I've been thinking about writing a canonical post for "how do I put text anywhere on the console?" but I'd need a Linux box to fully test the curses part of the answer. I wonder how long it would take to make my laptop dual-boot.
Why not use a VM?
@Kevin VM?
DSM
DSM
Have you heard of VMs?
@DSM It's an old operating system, isn't it?
Maybe you should try a VM?
16:23
VMs for everyone!
DSM
DSM
@Carpetsmoker: you interrupted the "try a VM" chain. :-)
Just about the same amount of time as installing Linux, since most distros include the ability to set up dual booting.
I'd probably just install a VM though, dual booting isn't worth the hassle. Either completely switch or use a VM.
Ok then, VM it is.
DSM
DSM
Four or five years ago there was a virtualbox bug which could break networking on the host machine. Caused me quite a bit of grief. :-/
@poke MSVC it is.
DSM
DSM
16:36
Fizzy's all JS.. I'm taking up Julia again and thinking of getting into Scala.. Rust seems to be growing in popularity.. soon none of us will be programming in Python!
I hope I'll be allowed to do one of my assignments in Rust. I really want to learn it
The instructor is more of a Google the answer, so I am trying to learn as I go.
what
'The instructor is more of a "Google the answer" guy than a "Here is how you solve this problem" guy'
ah
That is the worst default install path ever.
Got an unusually polite and verbose comment on a 9 months old PR of mine github.com/mongodb/docs/pull/2333
16:48
Rust’s hello world is 108kb compiled
Ok, I installed VirtualBox. Now to find an .iso that won't take four hours to download over wifi.
@vaultah wow
@poke Try babelified hello world, I was surprised to see that it was over 100Mb with the dependencies :(
You can now say that the file is Rusted
cabbage @thefourtheye \o
@thefourtheye babelified?
16:50
Cabbage @BhargavRao :-)
@poke Babel is a transpiler for ECMA Script 6 code
But 100MB…?
@Kevin here ~700MB
Oh, you mean the node_modules
Yup
I like to think that I am doing something wrong
Well, I was talking about the compiled hello world :P The Rust compiler is a bit larger.
16:52
15MB beats 700MB
:P
you have your winner Kevin
I'll try the smaller one first I guess.
@Kevin Use Puppy linux
I guess I need to select "other linux" from the "Version" dropdown in the virtual box setting?
To use Lubuntu? Choose Ubuntu. It should be fine.
To use Nanolinux.
16:55
Honestly I don't know why they ask that... :(
Others then
Ooh, the popup that said "Please select a virtual optical disk file" the first time I started the VM doesn't show up a second time...
Oh, here it is under "Devices"
I keep forgetting that I can solve problems using critical thinking and/or trying every menu item.
@thefourtheye Because the VM softwares inject lots of things into the vm
Hmmm, based on the OS also? Interesting..
DSM
DSM
"My program won't run consecutivley in the program"
nanowm: Couldn't connect to Nano-X server!
17:03
Single processor without context switching ability?
I tried entering "ok then" but that didn't seem to help
There we go, rebooting fixed it.
Add "... and/or turning it off and on" to my prior list of problem solving solutions.
"Hello, I.T. Have you tried turning it off and on?" - Rings a bell? Anyone? :)
This mouse cursor behaves weirdly
Whoops I can't download Python because the web browser won't render https pages. Wheels within wheels.
Oh nevermind, misread :)
maybe pick a larger distro after all…
17:10
Let's come to a safe conclusion that the current OSes are not good enough and start writing one from the scratch.
When steam takes over the video gaming world, all I will need is Steam OS...
What are you doing there? Building system written in Rust? :)
"If you want to test this alpha [https] support code, just reconfigure with --enable-ssl, recompile and reinstall." Yes, that's what I wanted to do today. Compile web browsers.
@NikolayFominyh I'm installing a Linux virtual machine so I can play with the features of the python module curses, which doesn't exist on Windows.
From a Big-O point of view, calling set twice is no worse than calling it once.
wait
that syntax I put is garbage
nevermind...I did not review that one at all. Nevermind. Referencing other answer
nothing to see here
thanks for playing
I thought I might try using apt-get to get Python, because I've seen people use apt-get before when installing things so I assume it's the thing you use to install things. But I'm getting apt-get: command not found so I guess it's not installed. There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza.
17:18
man...Padraic is...really good. I've actually picked up a few things from some of his answers in the past.
@poke Yet another complaint received. stackoverflow.com/q/36224656/1903116
@Kevin "the thing you use to install things"
that's a shithole
don't go down this way
@Kevin Wait, apt-get is for debian flavours only, I guess.
Oh, here's a "get packages..." button on the start menu. ooh, things are happening now.
@Kevin It depends on the distribution of linux you are using. I don't know what nano linux is using.
17:22
Success B-)
(inb4 "now install actual python, not this 2.7 junk")
(it's not my fault the packages weren't properly labeled)
"Houston we have liftoff"
@Kevin I am sure I am being hated by core Python guys in my company for favoring 3 over 2 :(
Who suggested Kevin use some random micro-distro that none of us know how to install packages on?
Time to take a break so I can refill my "tolerance for bullshit" reservoir.
@Kevin, oh man! Why not ubuntu or arch? =)
17:27
@NikolayFominyh This one's .iso was the smallest among all the ones nominated.
@Kevin, and it will have python curses support, yap?
It's taking so long to download 18MB from SourceForge that I could have installed Ubuntu by now.
I sure hope so.
DSM
DSM
I guess today's just one of those days when we all forget we set the fridge to defrost and our kitchens wind up full of water, eh? No? Just me? ... okay..
Bah I am so tired of this framework :\
17:29
Linux is great framework.
It has python built in sometimes.
nah, meteor. So annoying sometimes
@davidism yell at poke for giving weird distro to poor Kevin.
Kevin will have great night.
Why is SourceForge still a thing?
DSM
DSM
It took me a lot less time than that to download. You probably just got a bad mirror.
17:33
but wait there's more ... and I actually don't understand anything in that comment.
@thefourtheye heh, but that’s a weird question. Does using babel restrict you to the polyfills you can use?
@Kevin How did you get to the Start Menu? I don't see anything :(
Why is everyone downloading nanolinux. Are we taking a magical journey together?
@poke No, but babel itself has a lot of polyfills
@davidism My fault. Sorry.
17:35
yes...yes we are. It's like an episode of the magic school bus.
DSM
DSM
@Kevin: we wanted to be ready to help with any setup questions you might have..
@thefourtheye But you don’t have to use those, right? I’ve used es6-collections before for Set and Map, and that worked just fine for me (I was using TypeScript then)
I think my production server is broken :| what do?
@thefourtheye Well, first I had virtual box open, and then I pressed the big green "start" button, and then it asked me to pick a screen resolution and I did, and then some text went by, and then the desktop appeared, and then I clicked on the "Start" button in the lower left.
@Kevin you must know or do something I don't to be the starlord that you are. Subconsciously, we've all realized we need to copy what you do to get those sweet, sweet stars.
17:37
Maybe you picked a screen resolution that was too big. Try to scroll down.
@poke They use closurecompiler.
@Kevin You are bad influence?
btw. I really like that everyone ended up downloading that nano linux now just to help Kevin figure out this thing.
@DSM I find that weirdly touching.
@thefourtheye Who does? And not sure how that answers my question :D
The phrase "weirdly touching" can be interpreted in several bad ways. Please choose the most charitable way.
17:38
@poke I mean, es6-collections use closurecompiler, not babel. They might use stripped down version of polyfills, I am not sure though.
But without polyfills they cannot support all the environments
How is that relevant? Just include the polyfill and use Map/Set as if it was there?
What if the the Polyfill is bloated?
We have seperate modules for each and every functions :(
And most of the polyfills will be depending on very common modules, and they download the same package again and again.
the polyfill is 2KB, I don’t care if it is bloated at that size.
Wait, I'll check that library.
(for comparison, es6-shim is 78KB)
17:44
Then I am not sure how babel based code eat up more than 100MB :(
heh :P
I don't transpiling. So I hardly use babel, or anything for that matter.
I don’t use Babel either. I only use TypeScript.
Does it work everywhere?
TypeScript can target various environments. If you targets ES5, then it runs everywhere where ES5 runs. You may need es5-shim for IE8 support but that’s about it.
And in this one project I needed Sets, so I added that es6-collection shim, and was good to go.
17:47
Did you remember to add the left-pad library? I hear that's essential.
3
TS by itself doesn’t do any shimming, only syntax conversion
Oh, neat. I think TypeScript gives static typing as well, right?
Yup
DSM
DSM
@davidism: heh.
@davidism Cool people use the webservice these days: left-pad.io
@thefourtheye Actually, I used three polyfills for that project:
require('es6-collections');
require('es6-promise');
require('whatwg-fetch');
17:48
Unfortunately, I'm stuck in the past, government projects can't connect to outside services.
Why is it a feature? What possible use is there for moving old posts to a different table? Just query for old posts on the normal table when you need them. Or create a view. — davidism 1 min ago
I know ops get annoyed when you ask why they're doing something, but I think I'm entirely justified here.
DSM
DSM
@davidism: did you read Ronacher on the isarray package?
@poke For promises, bluebird is kinda the must have
@davidism “What possible use is there for moving old posts to a different table?” – Archive tables that are on different partitions, servers, or clusters
@poke yeah, but just back up your whole table.
@thefourtheye I honestly prefer the simple kind that’s close to spec. And in that case, I only needed the polyfill for fetch.
@davidism It’s not for backup, it’s for live data.
I’m with you that OP very likely does not need to do it, but there are use cases for this.
17:52
cbg
Cabbage @AnttiHaapala :-)
OK, yes, I can imagine use cases. :-)
@poke I just found this
@thefourtheye The biggest issue with npm is not just the amount of modules you end up having, but that every module includes so much random and useless things.
Like tests, documentation, build-related files/tools that already ran, or continuous integration server settings.
True, I think you can limit that with npm's files option. I am not sure, never used it myself.
18:03
Nobody uses it.
I’ve used modclean before when I had to check in npm dependencies to source control.
Probably they would have introduced it very recently. One guy in Node.js team, called Chalker, once raised bugs on repos which were uploading crap to npm. He found that few packages were uploading 900MB
But as David Haney wrote yesterday, it can’t be that an empty project has 41k files…
There are few modules in npm which take modularity to a very different level. The main reason people use them is to support different versions/environments.
rbrb people. Gotta meet few friends.
18:25
rbrb pups
18:40
I'm continually amazed how many newbies when encountering a problem in trivial code think "python is broken!" rather than "my code is broken!"
>>> print "Python is broken"
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print "Python is broken"
                           ^
SyntaxError: Missing parentheses in call to 'print'
@tzaman See, It is broken ;)
omg my print statement doesn't work
someone call Guido
or Barry the flufl
They're pulling the old "[technology] sucks because I can't do [thing]" trick. Then [technology] fanboys get all mad and solve your problem for you to prove how dumb you are.
"What's wrong with my code?" -> crickets. "Python is broken, look this code doesn't run" -> 5 replies in a minute
Query for old Posts. Bulk insert OldPosts with the old Posts' data. Bulk delete the old Posts.
This was fun to write.
you need to put the string in parentheses
print ("Python is broken")
@DanielEngel remove the space there! pep8!
Why?
it still works fine
he already told you why: PEP8 - aka the python style guide
18:57
ok ok print("Python is broken")
are you happy now?
how can I be happy if Python is broken?
3
:(
The anticipation is killing me. Why is Python broken?
Because ... Why not?
this seems like a cruel joke
Python today is better than ever. Sorry to disapointe you
DSM
DSM
19:02
I wish tristan were here. These are the kinds of conversations he loves.
tempted to ping...but I won't
call of the tristan
beer...whisky....snakes.
(do you think that will work?)
Someone want's to help me build a open world game in Python?
an*
200 per hour
@idjaw if that doesn't, I don't know what will.
200 [thousand US dollars] per hour?! Hold on, I'll quit my job. Good thing you let us fill in the units.
@davidism Why dream small? 200 Billion Billion US Dollars per hour
^^ did you see my edit?
hehe
I am really frustrated with that user, they continually show zero critical thinking or research skills.
hm...surprised to see that Teamcity is a tag after seeing this .... not only that there seems to be answers about configuring the UI. Didn't think SO delved in to that type of answering.
19:38
Am I missing something, but I can't find math.sign in python? In which library is the sign function located?
Rhubarb, Time to sleep
math.copysign
rbrb Bhargav
Doesn't work for "zero" though, and all other options lead to code-branching using either a ternary or if-statements..
@paul23 I just did a quick check in my PyCharm and the only sign coming up for me is in numpy: from numpy.core.umath import sign
basically I have: (abs(float_input- m.round(float_input)), float_input+ sign(float_input - m.round(float_input))) Which should give both the distance as well as the actual closest integer to a given float.
DSM
DSM
19:43
Python doesn't have one because nobody could agree on what it should do.
:|
WAIT - I'm stupid.. what the hell was I thinking when I wrote above line of code
are you just looking for modf ?
although that won't be closest, it rounds down
@tzaman Well that kind of is important :P - but actually the round function gave the result already... Why was I trying to complicate things?
Forcing any response beyond "reject" (the equivalent of downvote), has been continually rejected by the SO community. Forcing chosing to reject at all has not been, but that's not the same as forcing a reason, which is in the title of your post. — davidism 1 min ago
this guy is seriously dense, I don't know how many more ways I can repeat the same thing at him
I finally did it you guys
20:04
@corvid did what?
working on a node project is making me realize how long its been since I did js...holy slow-brain batman....
and it really hasn't been that long either....that's how fast it just leaves my brain.
@corvid accepted that you're special just the way you are?
20:21
Switching between css, js, python, and php is becoming a daily occurrence for me and I still forget everything
I am getting more and more frustrated with pycharm
hey now...let's be polite to pycharm. it's a delicate snowflake
what's going on?
once again I go to youtrack to write an issue, only to find out that it has been fixed 5 years before...
don't they have fscking regression tests?
what issue did you discover?
YouTrack is pretty bad for finding stuff, and it takes literally forever to get any feedback.
20:29
exec(compiled, globals, locals) triggers python 2 compatibility error
almost all the bugs I've encountered with inspections are regressions...
@Carpetsmoker "someone who actually understands" ... after I edited their question extensively to say what they actually meant. sigh
it is a good idea though
@AnttiHaapala I turn off most of the inspections, they're more annoying than useful most of the time
@AnttiHaapala =/ that's silly. This actually reminds me when I discovered that one of the IntelliJ updates decided to set .tox as an ignored folder
that was really frustrating
@davidism and all the most annoying cases that I've encountered have been regressions; that is, someone complained about them already, then they were implemented in 2012/2013, and are now back again
@davidism Ah. And after looking at the revision history now I understand some of the responses to this ...
evening cbg
20:34
it even used to understand Model.column == None (though now considered bad) without complaining that is should be used with None
Oh yeah, forgot that one, I ended up using is_(None) instead, which is pretty silly.
The one that annoys me right now is that it doesn't understand anything from six.moves and marks them in red.
another was that it complained that in zope interfaces, the first argument of methods should be named self
vim doesn't have those problems
@AnttiHaapala there's a python 1?
why aren't we using that?:P
@AndrasDeak because it is ancient and crappy
I actually did compile python 1.0 once
20:45
:)
but it was pretty bad, probably hit some undefined behaviour all the time
couldn't do anything without it crashing... like 5 lines in repl and sigsegv.
not bad
so I'm reading that python2 is to be exterminated in 2020?
how often do they postpone that date?
@AnttiHaapala is it too late for a typo fix suggestion?
neva, though I guess I cannot edit
ah but I can
20:51
The issue PY-952 as surfaced again it seems.
I think you mean "has" surfaced again, unless the sentence went way over my head
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter; I'm less than capable in terms of cognitive functions tonight
But lo! and behold, it was the former!:D
I feel like a valuable member of society.

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