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DSM
DSM
00:00
And this is the second time today I've wanted a golfed count()!
Slow is fine. If you post that as an answer, you'll get at least one up vote from me.
00:26
Is there any clear answer to which of if initialize: myClass.someDict = {}; myClass.someDict.update(newdata) and if initialize: myClass.someDict = newdata; else: myClass.someDict.update(newdata) is better practice, or is it wholly a matter of taste?
In both cases, newdata is a dictionary.
I feel like the first is a bit better, because if it ever happens that newdata is not a dict, it will immediately let you know.
But what I don't know about Python could fill a warehouse. :I
 
3 hours later…
03:32
any thoughts on getting tutoring from Jeff Knupp?
good idea? bad idea?
for context, I have very little programming experience (I have done a couple of python courses, but the more I learn, the more I realise how much there is to learn)
 
2 hours later…
05:55
good morning
i am learning inheritance and want to use a method of my parent class in a subclass, and cannot find the right syntax for it
06:20
CBG all.
hello :(
@hmmmbob it would be nice if you could show a code snippet of your parent class
Code speaks better then words!.
ofc i will
so this is my parent class
class Message(object):
it has a method that looks like this:
def build_shift_dict(self, shift):
now i tried to write a sublcass
class PlaintextMessage(Message):
    def __init__(self, text, shift):
        Message.__init__(self,text)
        self.shift=shift
now i wanna write a method in that subclass
and access the build shift method from the parent class
06:35
@hmmmbob you should be calling the function like you called the init method i.e.) Message.build_shift_dict(shift)
so the self as an argument is gone
self is need in declaration when you are calling the function of a class the self is actually the class object which calls the function. so implicitly self is transferred.I may be wrong in here so please clarify with others
this is giving me vertigo
but i know i have to learn it :)
Yes, Python is magical enough to know to supply the first argument implicitly, although not magical enough to define it implicitly
big football game cbg
06:51
hmm will get this eventually
user559633
cbg
Hello
07:07
Is it me you're looking for?
user559633
user559633
what a strange music video
user559633
wherein lionel is instructing an acting class and starts singing without the situation at all calling for it, then stalks a blind student, crooning "is it me you're looking for?" the student then makes a sculpture of a human head that would blow up in the kiln, probably damaging the kiln itself in the process.
cabbage
user559633
07:19
cbg
@hmmmbob You can access the parent's build_shift_dict method just as if it were defined in the child class, like self.build_shift_dict(shift)... unless you've defined a new build_shift_dict method in the child which overrides the one it inherits from its parent.
07:49
class me(Person):
	def __init__(self,age,name):
		Person.__init__(self,age,name)
if i wanna use the methods from my parent class, do i have to atleast use the arguments of it in my init of the subclass?
Cabbage!
@hmmmbob Yes. You should probably do some research into inheritance. Tutorials will go over this.
i honestly did a few
but most likely i have not fully grasped it
in my mind, if i init it in the next line by taking it from the parent class, i thought i am good
@hmmmbob how would the parent's __init__ call know which variables to use?
What if they had different names for the same "thing", as is entirely possible for functions.
i thought it more like, you enter the car with your backpack, in the backpack there is an apple, therefore the car contains an apple
07:58
You can't magically assume that the variable defined as age should be passed into the function which has an internal dummy variable called age
oh i am sure you are right :)
not arguing
i just got it wrong
That's fine :) when you call Person() you have to provide arguments, yes? To instantiate the class.
yes :)
i understand that
All Person('irhg', 23) does "under the hood" is call Person.__init__('irhg', 23).
(In reality it'll be slightly more complicated than that, but for now it's a fine assumption)
yes but i thought if can call me('dwadw',23) it will go to init of the subclass, that will go to init of the parent class, and voila.. :)
08:02
Just a sec, getting on my coding vm.
Sorry I can't come up with a good example of what I want to show. Someone else might be able to.
Python just doesn't do what you're thinking, it won't make assumptions about what you want to pass into a function call.
ok thank you anyway
i just have to remember it :)
user559633
you want the parent class to know things defined in the child class? if so, that's not really a thing
hi guys I tried installing pydev pluggin on eclipse. The tut asks to specify the python.exe as interpreter in eclipse settings. Installation is supposed to create python directory in C:/Program Files, but there is none. may be this is because restrictions put by Admin team in my offce setup
what can I do
Don't put it where the admins don't want you to.
user559633
08:19
@hmmmbob
user559633
class BasicBitch:
    def __init__(self, age, gender):
        self.age = age
        self.gender = gender

    def tweet(self, msg):

        msg = "{msg} {hashtag}".format(msg=msg, hashtag="#YOLO #SWAG")

        if len(msg) < 140:
            print(msg)
        else:
            raise ValueError("save it for your tumblr")


class KanyeFan(BasicBitch):
    def __init__(self, name, *args, **kwargs):
        self.name = name
        super().__init__(*args, **kwargs)

    def child_tweet(self, msg):
user559633
does this do what you want?
It does everything I've wanted ever.
user559633
#swag.... it might be time to move on from this playlist
user559633
anyone see the "brain.fm" post on hackernews yesterday? it's procedurally generated background sound. it's basically soylent for your ears.
08:28
I have Python 2.7 64bits installed in Windows via Anaconda installer. I'm having an issue apparently related to the matplotlib which comes in this bundle:

File "C:\Anaconda2\lib\site-packages\matplotlib\dates.py", line 129, in <module>
from dateutil.relativedelta import relativedelta

I already uninstalled and reinstalled many packages using pip to try fixing this: pandas, numpy (had to reinstall from a pre-compiled wheel), matplotlib, six, and of course python-dateutil. Anyway the problem continues. Any idea?
The error is: ImportError: cannot import name relativedelta
cbg
@tristan I did. I didn't try it though. How is it?
user559633
@Ffisegydd Their model is 6 "sessions" ("songs of N duration") free, then they ask for money. I don't think I'd pay for it, even with their "hackernews special price" of $25/life.
I like the idea of it, I'm a general fan of procedurally generated stuff
I may try the 6 and see.
$25 is like 50p so might go for it.
user559633
It's oscillating synths and very slow repetitious note progressions using an ambient electronic instrument
08:42
I assumed it would be electronic. Procedurally generating some sick guitar riffs is probably more difficult.
"It's just Highway to Hell combined with Stairway to Heaven, the 'procedurally generated' part is randomisng the ratio. That'll be $50."
user559633
I'd spend maybe like $5 for an app that generates this stuff, but otherwise, I think I'll just pay for longer classical pieces or composed electronic ambient/melodic electronica
I got rid of my Spotify account, I need alternatives (that work at work)
user559633
Yeah, I don't use Spotify anymore either. They only had ~25% of the music I looked for, and my playlists had a pretty big attribution rate
I've got Amazon Prime so should really check out Amazon Music as I'm already paying for it.
user559633
And their whole "we can access arbitrary data on your devices" contract change, so fuck them.
user559633
i probably have some time coming up, so maybe i'll just re-install and put together a 8 hour playlist that loops at its boundaries or something
user559633
IIRC, my last "big" playlist was something like 26 hours.
@tristan How you uh, how you comin' on that startup novel you're working on? Huh? Gotta big stack there? Gotta nice little UI you're working on there? Your big startup novel you've been working on for three years? Huh? Gotta, gotta compelling use case? Yeah? Little algorithm brewing there? Working on that for quite some time? Huh? Yeah, talking about that three years ago. Been working on that the whole time? Nice little data model? Yeah? No, no, you deserve some time off.
user559633
@Ffisegydd SIR DO YOU NEED ME TO CALL SOMEONE
user559633
08:51
Haven't worked on nerdcop in months, side project/startup has been getting 10-20 hours a week, but unfortunately, a lot of that is context switching. Getting pretty close to launching in limited beta, but I wrote it in such a way that scaling and adding features is trivial.
user559633
I also just trashed all the code I had for this project and started from scratch 6 months ago. It's basically the Monty Python "swamp castle" of projects.
Savage reference there.
(I have no idea what you're talking about, never been a fan of MP really)
user559633
basically, "when i started, all of this was swamp, they said it was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but i kept rebuilding castles that fell into the swamp..this one definitely will stand"
09:08
So I want to become helpful to the SO community,
I've had this conversation with this guy
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35572324/i-want-to-parse-string-to-timestamp-with-timezone-in-python?noredirect=1#comment58832755_35572324

What would you do different? I'd like to know how to approach these sort of situations. Yes I know I sound weird asking that.
Also, is it custom to delete your comments after posting them if you feel they don't contribute as much?
user559633
it's fine to delete your comments. from the asker's questions, he/she wants a library, which is off-topic anyway
I've flagged it as a duplicate of this stackoverflow.com/questions/11402390/…
@tristan I moved a project from Pyramid to Flask, which basically meant a small amount of time writing the app wasn't wasted, and a huge amount of time getting Pyramid to work was.
Don't star that or it'll make antti sad
Hi guys!!!
One quick question, does anybody know how to to make the code to get executed only when the module is imported?
I tried if name != 'main':
@LightFlow Have you read about packages and init files?
user559633
09:23
@RobertGrant Heh. Yeah, I'm going with a pattern that abstracts flask and sqlalchemy from the business logic (views<->methods<->models (MVVM?)) and I've been happy with it. If I want to switch out Flask, it's just substituting views with something else -- same for the methods.
@GLaDOS yes, so?
@tristan yeah I exaggerate - it was actually pretty simple to move everything across, especially because I was using jinja2 and sqla already. Just had to get used to how Flask interacted with sqla instead of how pyramid did, but it turned out to be a bit simpler anyway
Was quite impressed with how easy both frameworks made the move
user559633
I might try out Pyramid and Werkzeug down the line to see their time-to-first-byte differences. I have a feeling I'll slowly be replacing Python on this project for compiled alternatives though
Looking back, Pyramid is cool. It was just too much learning all at once for me.
@GLaDOS in future, you might want to point the asker of questions with no code to, for example, the tour, where it says "Focus on questions about an actual problem you have faced. Include details about what you have tried and exactly what you are trying to do."
Would everyone agree that questions that indicate the questioner has done basically no research at all are inappropriate?
"What have you tried" is a common comment on questions that have no code in them. Then they get deleted :)
09:28
@holdenweb I have a module made by me, I want it to be run only and only when it is imported by another module. that's all
for example, if you do something like: python mymodule.py it should not run
@LightFlow read what he's said. He didn't say "Please tell me what you want so I can write code for you." He wants something. What is it?
user559633
You now have two links to documentation that will teach you how to do this.
Re-CBG all.
@tristan I'm asking for the opposite of this docs.python.org/3/library/__main__.html
user559633
09:33
@LightFlow Apply thinking
I used the operator !=
cbg
instead of ==
@LightFlow not sure why you asked me that, as my comments were directed to @GLaDOS
09:36
@holdenweb ok, never mind
But since you did, you said "I tried if name != 'main':" - I presume the chat system gobbled your underscores?
@holdenweb exactly
I don't know how to post code here without getting corrupted
Well, why not just put at the beginning

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        import sys
        sys.exit("You shoul not run this module")d
@holdenweb I thought it's not really "cool" to use sys.exit?
user559633
:/ well, i guess it's easier to get people to do basic logic for you instead of thinking about it for a minute
09:40
Ctrl/Cmd-K will indent selected code
@HamZa do you want to be cool, or do you want to achieve your goals?
Sorry was off for a second reads what you wrote
@holdenweb I meant I've seen people use plain "return"
@tristan I'm thinking tristan, I was just curious why the != operator didn't work
user559633
@LightFlow Changing one character and then sitting there isn't the same thing as thinking
@GLaDOS With OPs like that, all you can do is give a brief polite explanation of why we need to see their code, and link them to the appropriate help pages. If they refuse to co-operate, move on. BTW, there are several shortcuts you can use on the main site, like [ask] and [mcve], unfortunately they don't work in Chat.
09:41
@tristan one character can make a difference
user559633
@LightFlow Wow, that's so insightful
ok, i'm out of here
@PM2Ring Cool
user559633
if __name__ == "__main__":
    print("main")
else:
    print("not main")
Morning, pythicles.
user559633
09:42
because we're going with the "give a man a fish" approach
user559633
hey jrs
@HamZa return is a syntax error outside a function - you are perhaps thinking of a C main program?
@LightFlow != is not equal and == is equal . You are checking if it is invoked from main or not.
@holdenweb Alright
user559633
doing if __name__ at the end means the interpreter will run/execute all code up until that control flow
09:43
As Glados and other subjected I think it would be better if you started from the basics
gents any thoughts on getting tutoring from Jeff Knupp?
https://www.jeffknupp.com/about-me/
good idea? bad idea?
for context, I have very little programming experience (I have done a couple of python courses, but the more I learn, the more I realise how much there is to learn)
oooh I see...
I was once using sys.exit in a function to exit the program and I was advised to use return
I guess it all depends on the *goals* :- )
user559633
@Sean i say give him money because he seems like a good guy. there's also suggestions on tutorials on sopython.com
user559633
@HamZa sys.exit is fine if you know what you're doing -- the advice against it was probably "don't exit out of a daemonized process just because you got input you didn't expect"
oki doki
09:45
@tristan exactly :o
Yeah throw some exception maybe?
NotImplemented maybe?
Not quite right, I guess.
user559633
@HamZa yeah, so if you're doing a process that's meant to be running and you get something you can handle, raise or return a sentinel value that you can error-handle.
Got it, TIL
user559633
or just delete a random inode from the user's filesystem and print "i have altered your filesystem. pray i do not alter it further"
user559633
09:47
or, comedy option, os.system("sudo reboot now")
@HamZa Some people consider it bad style to call exit in a function that's deep inside your program structure. Similarly, you should avoid having multiple returns in a function. Those are good guidelines, but feel free to break them if it makes the code simpler and easier to read. :)
@JRichardSnape I've read it as "morning, physics." And thought to myself that it is rather odd, but neat, to greet physics as you wake up everyday.
@PM2Ring I C
Good morning gravity.
@GLaDOS From now on, I think I may do that. As I spring into action "Good morning, physics". On more philosophical days I shall add "And greetings to you, mathematics"
09:52
@JRichardSnape That is so meta.
Meta is so meta.
I have been using queue.Queue (py3). The documentation says setting maxsize to 0, the size will be infinite. doc: https://docs.python.org/3/library/queue.html
I wonder: surely the queue must be saved somewhere in memory, so I guess the size is limited to the system's memory. So what if the queue got so big, what would happen to the queue? Would it overflow? Would my script crash? Or ...?
A quick google query didn't give any results...
user559633
this is my morning ritual youtube.com/watch?v=Yg03q100E4g
@RobertGrant woah, there man, far out.
wow - interesting punctuation there. I'm going to leave that for posterity
@JRichardSnape posterity will be happy to have that.
09:55
is unsure how to react to @tristan's morning ritual
@HamZa In C, it would be considered very bad practice to have random exit points scattered through your code: all control flow should start and end at main(), although I guess its ok to exit from special well-documented error-handling code. But in Python it's generally not so critical.
And as for functions having multiple return points, we're not so strict about that in Python, and in fact it's a common Python idiom to put stuff with multiple nested loops into a function purely so you can break out of inner loops by using return.
@JRichardSnape something constructive would be great.
user559633
@HamZa I'd have to source dive, but yes, assumably this would be limited to system memory, if items in the queue are not consumed and garbage collected. You'd maybe get a MemoryError exception
@HamZa Apologies for my frivolity chastened
@tristan I guess I will just test it on my raspberry pi and see what happens. The docs doesn't say anything about it.
user559633
09:57
@HamZa Wait, I don't understand, what do you mean?
On your Queue thing - just try it. Make a script that adds things until something breaks. Then you'll know. Caveat: This may require a reboot.
Ah - even more so if it's just a Pi - just go for it.
@JRichardSnape how dare you be unhelpful? Do you know how much HamZa's paying for this time!?
user559633
@RobertGrant Yeah, that's why I asked what he meant by that
My point: not everyone is fluent in english. So I would be happy if you corrected my sentence/gave me pointers.
@RobertGrant :D I'm just kidding around, I'm guessing there's some subtletly lost in the translation via pixels, hence my use of a little gentle sarcasm.
user559633
10:00
@HamZa Oh, he was probably talking about his own sentence, not criticizing yours.
@HamZa Don't worry about it - they know me a lot and there's use of a bit of inference. I was definitely not criticising you in any way
user559633
We're a pretty friendly group here and JRichard is very nice.
Hence backing off when I guessed your first language wasn't english. Which is really not a problem, of course.
My bad, my interpreting skills sometimes overflow :P
user559633
Hooray for recoverable MisunderstandingExceptions
3
10:01
haha
@HamZa Yeah, if you run out of memory your script will raise MemoryError and die. You shouldn't need to reboot. Note that Linux normally has a swap file or partition which gets used for virtual memory when real RAM is running low. It's generally a Good Idea to kill your script with ^C if you notice that happening, since a system using virtual memory is slow.
@PM2Ring We'll see about that no need to reboot (you're right you shouldn't, but especially on a Pi.......)
user559633
You could see/test that MemoryError by creating a virtual machine with something like virtualbox and giving the virtualmachine a very small amount of RAM
Nice idea - I'm banking that one. Never used VMs in that way, but it's a good idea.
10:03
I got a script that reads values from the raspberry pi pins, queues them and sends them to an API (over the internet). So it got me thinking: what if the internet goes down?
user559633
@HamZa Socket exception, most likely. docs.python.org/3/library/socket.html#exceptions one of these, depending on what "down" ends up meaning (very slow vs network has no connection)
@tristan Yeah, I wanted to use sleep and retry. But then I thought about the size limit of the queue/memory. I guess I just need to test it :D
user559633
@HamZa Just make sure that you aren't popping items off your queue, otherwise Python will happily reap unused objects to keep from raising a MemoryError
Oh I see~
user559633
Python is reasonably good at automagically doing reasonable things.
10:05
unlike php :3
user559633
The PHP garbage collector would likely handle that appropriately as well.
@tristan I participated in a CTF. Couldn't solve a certain problem, turns out some PHP quirkiness was involved: xil.se/post/internetwache-2016-web-50-simonvik
user559633
Heh, I didn't say it was easy or obvious to do the right thing in PHP.
:D Tristan wins the understatement of the year prize
user559633
:) I'd sooner listen to a stranger talk about his dreams on the bus than spend more than 5 minutes rationalizing PHP 5's method naming/call signatures
10:11
@JRichardSnape Thanks!
hehe
user559633
Oh, a thought @HamZa -- when you're done testing your queue+memory experiment, you should post a self-answer question on SO with your findings
@tristan good idea
@RobertGrant Oh, I didn't know that interns were that expensive :o
10:26
cbg
user559633
user559633
i don't know why i find this so amusing (the text)
@HamZa oldie but goodie
was quite fun
that 0ennnnnnnnnn that is
was discussed here as well
IIRC
anyway: php is b0rken
beyond repair
10:30
Do you know the real acronym of PHP?
the one before PHP Hypertext Preprocessor
personal home pages
user559633
Home Pages (the P is silent)
user559633
@GLaDOS Do you know the original acronym for Python?
user559633
idk if you guys like starwars or w/e
10:48
Anyone want a free Google API key? stackoverflow.com/questions/35575277/… :)
@PM2Ring uhh, nice, now what can I do with Google’s API?
Rule the world.
RULE /world HTTP/1.1
Host: api.google.com
user559633
403.
@tristan do it refers to this place ? (soundcloud clip)
10:58
@poke cloud.google.com/vision/docs/concepts The Cloud Vision API is an easy to use REST API that uses HTTP POST operations to perform data analysis on images you send in the request... Each feature has a price for 1000 units/month. [under 1000 / per month is free]
I knew Perl Hypertext Preprocessor

Basically started as some patchy perl script to organize online portfolios
This makes so much sense when looking at the language
rbrb lunch
user559633
i think it's a starwars reference ^
11:39
Yeah you can still visit the Lars home in Tunisia
@PM2Ring Completely disagree that having multiple returns in a function is bad style, BTW
@tr
@tristan as i remember that they filmed one starwars movie in the south of tunisia..and that name "ghomrassen" is name of city over there..so may be there is something between these two facts ..
@holdenweb depends...
I am usually agnostic on the multiple returns - sometimes early return can be easy to read. However, I have noticed that it quite often indicates some logic has been inverted in the programmers head and there's a loop that can be "turned inside out" to make the code easier to read. In that sense maybe it is what seems to be called a smell these days @pm2 @holden
what bugs me with python is that there is no goto
11:47
@holdenweb Well, I did preface my remarks with "Some people consider it bad style...". And I must admit I've never been very good at following that rule, even in C. :)
^flags trolling @antti
user559633
@AnttiHaapala same, but ironically
what's good with goto is that you can have an exit procedure that you can jump to
goto :discussion_end
@PM2Ring yeah, wasn't arguing with you, just stating my opinion. Also see much code in the standard library to support my PoV ...
11:49
it is not for functional programming, just for dysfunctional
if (hungry_snapey) goto :lunch
rbrb
entrian.com/goto just in case anyone feels like a laugh
user559633
where goto would also clear out the stack?
if it wasn't clear yet,
I fscking hate Skype and Micro$oft
@AnttiHaapala I'd rather see goto used in C code than code that's bloated with nesting merely to avoid the use of a goto.
11:51
@AnttiHaapala save your malice for something you can affect
I can affect skype and microsoft
I can preach
@AnttiHaapala I think a 90s teen would've said $kype
@AnttiHaapala I hate the companies that make us use Skype more
12:22
Wow, people tend to be really passive aggressive on SO some times.
What prompted that?
@AnttiHaapala Isn't that one of the use cases for exceptions?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35577193/how-to-sort-a-list-by-dict-values-in-python
The comment section here, and other cases I don't remember.
I don't think that's passive aggressive
I can get people getting frustrated with people posting inadequately, still a shame
It's not exactly hand-holdingly lovely, but I think it's fine.
12:31
@GLaDOS Well, the OP responded to a fairly clear question with a dumb answer. I guess they probably didn't understand the question, but still...
It's a question (that probably has dozens, maybe 100s, of dupes) that has no attempt at code and an OP that isn't able to give a response to a clear query.
Sure, Jon could be a little more diplomatic with his comments, but that's just his way: "Sharpe by name, sharp by nature", as I said to him once here.
@Ffisegydd It is. I was saying that this place is thorny. Like a cactus maybe.
mornin' sports fans
And I guess English isn't the OP's mother tongue. But he could've responded with: "I don't know what that means".
12:36
I once asked a friend, "What do you think about my shirt? It has cactuses on it!" He said, "Cacti." I said "Never mind the tie, what about the shirt?"
Boom tish
oh my
did you hear about the guy who got his left side cut off?
he's alright now
....
hand slaps knee
Wait, so you guys think that it's alright that these answers are fairly common?
@idjaw left side?
12:38
I am often curt with new users who come here to ask question. They ask poor questions and show no inclination to do their own research - and so I am savage to them. This isn't because I enjoy it. I do it because I'm trying to help them to be independent. I've found that if you hand-hold someone then they will continue to expect hand-holding. If I can get someone do their own research and be more independent (while also protecting the room from help vampires) then I've done a good days work.
@khajvah it's a play on words....having his left side cut off, so he is "all right" now.
I have to practice my bad dad jokes. My kids are going to start understanding them in a few years.
18 hours ago, by khajvah
ok I am an idiot
@Ffisegydd On the other hand, a lot of discouraged or confused users go away because they feel attacked for not knowing the rules. Which is not a justification for them to go around doing whatever, I do think though that there has to be some point of objectiveness in the comments or answers.
@idjaw Make sure to tell them in front of their friends
@khajvah I have a whole other set of material for "in front of friends" situations.
I told a stupid joke to my brother(he is 12 years younger) in front of his friends once and he got embarrassed
looked at me with "wtf" eyes
from that time on, I just keep my mouth shut
Just bought a copy of K&R. Good reading material for the next few weeks. I'm so excited to learn C from the masters. https://t.co/1ujzGdPkGb
poor soul
13:17
@GLaDOS If you're referring to Stack Overflow itself, to sign up for an account they have to explicitly agree to the rules and so I have no sympathy for them at all. If you're talking about this room, 1) we do have room rules in the link at the top right, and 2) I'm generally nicer when first interacting and pointing them to the rules, it's only if they continue that it really kicks off.
And then FIZZY SMASH
@GLaDOS it might be more effective to offer them a little help, then withhold further assistance until they come up with meaningful input to their problem-solving. I appreciate that if this happens a lot it becomes less easy, though. At that point I usually back off a bit
@RobertGrant I've broken 7 keyboards this month due to help vampires.
I've broken only one. Or it was my brother-in-law
Welp today I interview with HugeCo for the job that I am currently doing.
13:22
@Ffisegydd Yes, they did agree to the rules upon signing up. However I think that this place could've had a larger community that would benefit more people. I know some very strong programmers that stay away from SO because they have no idea as to how it works and had negative experiences. It's true that some people are annoying and post meaningless questions, but sometimes people misunderstand and get very cold responses. It's not the end of the world either way.
They're going through everyone in the office in 30 minute increments. Unluckily I am the first IT person to go in so I can't get any hot tips & tricks from my immediate neighbors.
@GLaDOS seriously now!
stackoverflow has 3.5 million users
there are nations smaller than that
and all while having these rules
They're probably not going to ask any of the accounting folks ahead of me to balance a red-black tree or implement a bloom filter, but who knows what's in store for me.
Out of which how many are active?
10 million questions
13:24
@Kevin When in doubt, cry.
the problem is the crappy questions which make it harder to find the question-answer pair that is already answered that is useful to you
I hope they don't ask me what branch of BigCorp I work under, because the organizational chart is so crammed full of three letter acronyms, I barely know who my boss' boss is.
because there are so many self-entitled persons who think their little unique snowflake needs to be answered
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, so maybe being hard lined against people is the best way to cope with that. I get that.
there can be very basic questions that are good
and I upvote them
but "Here be my incorrectly indented dump of 300 lines of python code which does not give the correct answer - what am I doing wrong besides posting this bad question to stackoverflow?"
13:28
@AnttiHaapala This is so true. People think this site is a repository of experts who will answer any question they have. It's not a personal resource for doing your work for you. It's a place to concentrate common enough issues with programming such that they apply to a wide audience.
"Well for starters you should be coding in KevinScript, rather than Python. KevinScript is due to have a host of new features next month after the founder is fired from his current position after falling to pieces in his re-interview"
and if they did get it down to 3 lines, then it could be answered or closed as a duplicate
but if they cannot bother to get that 300 squeezed into 3, then close, delete.
Questions should be more like "Here is a problem" instead of "Here is my problem".
Although, naturally, they are in the later form. Generally speaking they are applied to the former.
I've gotten an answer from stackoverflow to 1000 of my problems
But a lot people don't get that at first
13:30
I've written 7 questions
@InbarRose Exactly. I'd also argue that the key is "generic" rather than "common". You can have a really rare issue but still make it generic enough for others (those 3 other people in the universe with your issue :P) to find it useful
those 1000 questions and answers were worth an upvote
Maybe if there was a bot that would've sifted the entirety of useless questions in a very courteous matter everyone would've been happy.
Like this C3PO sort of butler bot that tells you when you're doing it wrong.
the end effect is that
if a writer of bad questions is discouraged from asking on stackoverflow, they'd use google instead.
Yes. Which isn't that much of a problem
13:33
the one writing bad answers even more so
if one consistently writes bad answers then I hope they stop answering altogether
now back to the problem:
"great programmers stay out of stackoverflow because of ..."
"I know some very strong programmers that stay away from SO because they have no idea as to how it works and had negative experiences."
if they're good, they should write answers
@AnttiHaapala Yes, but they don't think about doing it because they don't really have a sense of what SO is. And the only time they've heard of it is when someone told them he asked a question and got an answer.
How did you get started with SO?
it came up in the google many times
then my friend said I'd get "rep" if I answered to a question
so perhaps there should be a banner saying "do you want to get a v-penis enlargement - please sign up and answer this question"
Do you still do it for "rep"?
I only answer for rep.
13:40
sounds reasonable.
if only 15+10
and if it is a well-received question, to point out the errors in other answers
so all in all, vp enlargement
and if the meme is not known to you, wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/Vpenis
heh

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