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12:01 AM
@Zero just found this - why didn't I hear of this sooner? genome.ch.bbc.co.uk
that's the kind of thing I don't mind the TV licence fee being used for...
 
That looks rather cool ...
The evening I was born, it was a choice between "Kenneth Clark's Civilisation" and "It's Lulu, Not to Mention Dudley Moore". Tough call ...
 
haha... I was just looking at what was on, on my birthday as well... you've made me feel less of a sad git now ;)
 
So what morsels of British culture heralded your debut?
 
Well, the only one I recognise/be interested in is "Parkinson"
 
As long as it's one of the ones with Rod Hull, yeah ;-)
 
that Rod Hull was a weird fella :)
 
Yes ... well a lot of children's entertainers of the era were a bit strange, looking back.
 
haha... Timmy Mallet? :p
 
... and I'm talking here about the ones that didn't turn out to be paedophiles :-/
 
@ZeroPiraeus seems to be dubious these days if there are any that aren't :(
 
12:17 AM
I am absolutely confident that Mr. Hull was entirely appropriate throughout his career, slightly odd though he was.
 
Well, guess he could have always blamed Emu anyway? :p
 
hello/cbg peeps
whats the numpy for broadcasting an array to one with a size thats an integer multiple of it
like i have the array [0.5, 0.5, 1]
and i want to multiply it with [3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5]
to get [1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 2, 4, 5]
 
how are you getting that result? Doesn't make sense to me (but then it is half past midnight)
 
It's already got my CV
 
user2555451
We really need to get Jon in a mod position. He could speed this up a ton. :)
 
well the first array is stretched to be the length of the 2nd one
so [0.5, 0.5, 1] is turned into [0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 1, 1]
and then elementwise multiplied (i think thats the term) with the 2nd one
 
okay... so how are you choosing that "stretching" pattern - seems fairly arbitary
 
the simplest one, the entries are just duplicated
 
12:28 AM
(eg why 2 -.5s in front and just 1 at the end) ?
oh okay
 
so [0.5] -> [0.5, 0.5]
oh its numpy.repeat
i was searching for stretching or expanding arrays i guess repeat is the keyword i should have used
 
12:53 AM
aarrrgh python sound playing is killing me
 
user2555451
2:37 AM
and is terminated!
 
user2555451
is dead now too.
 
2:54 AM
I am conflicted about something: it seems, logically, that should be regarded as burninatable for the same reason as all the others, but something just feels wrong about the idea.
 
user2555451
is a meta tag like the rest. You always need with it.
 
... and covers the rest, I know. It just feels a bit weird.
I see you have no such qualms, however ;-)
 
user2555451
Yup. and together make redundant. That, coupled with the fact it is a meta tag, means burnination!
 
I think the closest I can get to my feelings on the matter is that while the other meta tags dealt with this evening are like penny-ante cranks, is like Emperor Norton.
 
Cbg
 
user2555451
3:09 AM
cbg
 
All the above cvs require one more vote
 
user2555451
They're in the CV queue now; they'll be dealt with eventually.
 
user2555451
Our main concern was trashing the junk tags on them.
 
yeah, l see
 
 
4 hours later…
hey Guys. I got a question for you.
How do you create a file in cloud mac drive by python.
"~/Library/Mobile\ Documents/com\~apple\~CloudDocs/abc.txt.rtf" E212: Can't open file for writing, when i am saving using vi
 
7:07 AM
Cbg
 
Robert, again.
 
Cbg
 
7:44 AM
any idea guys?
 
You have a space before Documents :)
(jokes)
 
which is why there is \
hehe
def createBugsFileInitiallyIfNotPresent():
        global bugsFileLocation
        bugsFileLocation =  "/Users/agauravdeep/Library/'Mobile Documents'/com\~apple\~CloudDocs/abc.txt"
        if(os.path.isfile(bugsFileLocation)):
                f = open(bugsFileLocation, 'w+')
                f.write(" dddd ")
doesn't work
 
hatehatehate
I want pycharm full ed but I hate their stupid plans :D
bc I cannot calculate easily which one makes me end up paying more, their personal or business plan
 
If only you had some kind of IDE to write some code to calculate it D:
 
7:59 AM
and ofc they have the startup discount but I am not eligible since I found out about it on my 4th yr :D
asdfklasdlfökasdfasfdkjasdf
I cannot do comment with block of code since I am in javascript file with community edition
 
(Chrome only)
 
8:15 AM
cbg
(cleaning up )
@RobertGrant and not if you use Whatsapp on iOS
 
@MartijnPieters apparently this becomes a problem when you focus on specific APIs to make your expensive products talk to each other, and not general capabilities :)
 
@MartijnPieters what to do with that ^
 
@AnttiHaapala Remove the tag, vote to close as too broad.
 
funny like 2 questions in 1
 
voted down for good measure.
 
8:26 AM
well I do not know about kdb :d
-3
Q: Project Euler number 35 efficiency

bobflanaganhttps://projecteuler.net/problem=35 All problems on Project Euler are supposed to be solvable by a program in under 1 minute. My solution, however, has a runtime of almost 3 minutes. Other solutions I've seen online are similar to mine conceptually, but have runtimes that are exponentially faste...

codereview
 
8:38 AM
@AnttiHaapala I vote to close those as too broad usually. If they are of sufficient quality to migrate, a Other flag with request to migrate follows.
 
Cbg!
 
8:56 AM
cbg
 
cabbage
 
I have a quick question: do you guys use performance tests in your Python projects? If yes, and if you run them via Jenkins, what do you use to display the results? I am considering two Jenkins plugins now, but both need to be feeded xml (one custom, one in JMeter format that I can not seem to find specs for). Is there any other way that you know of?
 
9:11 AM
@Nebril from what I can see from a quick read of the docs, Jenkins will display JMeter results via the Performance plugin.
 
@RobertGrant Yes, I know this plugin. But I have custom perf tests that output results in json file and need to convert it to format required by plugin. So I was thinking - maybe someone did something like that before or worked with JMeter output from python - because only modules I could find were ones for analysis of JMeter files - not producing them.
 
@Nebril ah okay. No idea, sorry :)
 
@RobertGrant np, I am already working on the conversion, but I thought I could avoid getting my hands dirty with all that xml ;)
 
Yeah it is a bit gross. Good luck though, and if it goes well I look forward to seeing the finished plugin :)
 
hello
 
@cel you can tag with [tag:cv-pls]. I know this may seem a bit redundant, but a lot of people have browser userscripts that alert them to the tags (but don't alert them to saying just cv-pls).
 
cel
@Ffisegydd oh okay, was already wondering why people take the extra effort and create a tag for that. Makes sense.
 
10:03 AM
 
what does cv-pls mean?
 
Close Vote Please.
 
ty
 
Hello guys im android developer and i want to learn how to writes web and web api i have started to learn Django is django worth for web and web api?
 
Django is a perfectly good framework for web development.
There are others (I prefer Flask personally) though.
 
10:17 AM
how much time i need to spend learning python before jumping in Django ?
 
That is completely unanswerable.
I don't know you, don't know how intelligent you are, don't know what experience you have, anything.
But you'll need to know Python fairly well to be competent with Django.
 
i have about 1 year experience with android and java
 
I'm still not going to be able to answer you.
 
@KastriotDreshaj if you have a project, just dig into it.
 
What is your programming background rather than experience? Many times experience means how much time you got paid for programming which is not very telling about your skills.
 
10:20 AM
@Reut I disagree completely. Experience means experience. I have never been paid to program Python, but I have a lot of experience with it.
 
I find that people with academic background have a better time learning new languages because they know the concepts rather than specific implementations.
@Ffisegydd that's exactly what I said :)
 
It doesn't sound like that's what you said.
 
@Ffisegydd English isn't my strongest language, I thought this says so: "Many times experience means how much time you got paid for programming which is not very telling about your skills."
 
Fair enough. It just sounds a bit like you're saying experience doesn't mean experience. But we're getting off the point :P
 
well, I said "many times" and I do not agree with the common interpretation (in Israel, the one I presented) as well.
 
10:25 AM
soo for what is most known python ? which area use more python web, networking , games , moblie ?
becouse i started to learn python and i rly like python
 
Sorry I don't understand what you're asking.
 
for what people use more python ? like for web or for networking or to build games or desktop apps?
 
Are you asking what people use Python for?
 
Python is used for everything.
 
yes like what area python shines
 
10:36 AM
Everything. It is a swiss-army knife.
 
:D
easier to say areas where python does not shine
 
it doesn't shine in making 3d games
 
python does not shine in very limited embedded devices, or operating systems, or writing 3D rendering engines.
or something like that ;)
 
better put Antti :P
 
shines for web, for networking, building games and desktop apps ;)
depending of your definition of those
I wouldnt necessarily build Photoshop or Excel with Python, for various reasons, nor a 3D 1st-person shooter :D
but anything else goes
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frets_on_Fire for example this game was writtein in python
 
10:40 AM
EvE: Online is built using Python.
 
Cool
do you prefere me learn python 2.7 or 3.4 ?
 
3.4
if you are starting now, then 3.4.
 
@AnttiHaapala But some did try building Gimp. :)
 
ok cool i work as android developer and in free time i want to learn python
 
Yeah. Definitely. 3.4. You can always backport code once you've learned how things work (if that's necessary).
 
10:42 AM
@RomanLuštrik ? :D
 
couse i find python really fun
 
I was under the impression that GIMP2 was build using Python.
 
nope
gimp is built with GTK+C
then there are plugins in python and in lisplike language I think
 
git is build in python too and instagram ?
 
*scheme
 
10:44 AM
i think
 
yes instagram, but git is C definitely
 
Reddit uses Python (Pyramid I think?)
 
github and such can be in other languages
 
reddit was writen by aaron swartz i think
he prot code from lisp
port*
 
reddit used pylons, I doubt they have migrated?
 
10:46 AM
Ah so. In any case, I lose my hair, one at a time, every time I open GIMP2. My Chrstimas wish was to get a one window program, but it would seem Santa is not much of a coder.
 
but yeah where ppl would have used pylons before, now they should use pyramid :D
 
Cabbage
 
How's this morning treating everyone
 
@RomanLuštrik someone did make a one-window version of the GIMP
 
10:49 AM
just use photoshop :D
 
I know of better uses of my money. :P
 
Windows -> Single Window Mode?
 
@RomanLuštrik Or Paint.NET on Windows
 
in my country we use torrent alot
soo
 
@IntrepidBrit There's no such option in my version.
 
10:50 AM
@KastriotDreshaj doesn't mean you should though
 
@RomanLuštrik 2.8.14?
 
To quite Chris Rock, you can drive a car with your feet, but that don't make it a good f***** idea.
 
Countries grow up one person at a time, and have to do it with every generation they produce
 
2.6.11, time to upgrade.
 
So they can start any time
 
10:52 AM
I have come to learn how to work using open source (== free) tools, and even like them. I use R daily and by answering questions on SO, I feel like I'm contributing back to the community that has nurtured me.
 
@KastriotDreshaj: If you're a competent programmer (in any language) you should be able to become competent in Python fairly quickly. Coming from Java, Python can be a very liberating experience. But there are some Java things that you will have to "un-learn" to use Python well.
Eg, you normally don't need to write getters and setters for classes in Python.
 
@KastriotDreshaj also, functions that look like this: __equals__() will be scary looking.
 
@RobertGrant I guess they are a bit intimidating at first, but once you get used to __dunder__ functions they are awesome. And more elegant IMO than the way that stuff is generally handled in other languages.
 
I think it's because they're magic-looking that makes it confusing :)
 
Any sufficiently advanced code is indistinguishable from magic.
 
11:08 AM
:)
 
gotta love the incomprehensible list comprehension ;)
 
Any sufficiently quoted person is indistinguishable from Einstein (sorry Arthur)
 
@Ffisegydd I see you're following the tag now. Good.
 
"97% of the quotes on the Internet about me are made up" - Albert Einstein.
 
@RomanLuštrik :D yeah I'm keeping an eye on it, reading any interesting Qs.
 
11:18 AM
@PM2Ring :)
 
Another useless tag to burn:
The burn is progressing nicely.
 
Oooh I can see chat flags now too.
 
must. not. flag. fizzy's messages.
 
@Martijn how do you go about burninating? Edit out the offending tag and then do whatever normal moderation is necessary (downvote, close, etc)?
 
11:23 AM
I like the itsdangerous package; signing user IDs so you don't have to store account activation IDs is a cool idea
 
Okay cool, I may do a bit this afternoon on then.
 
Open up 10 of them, remove the tag, remove anything else normal editing would remove if you feel like it, vote to close, downvote, delete vote if that is what it takes to get rid of the tag, etc.
 
Isn't a sillier tag than
 
Some questions have just that one tag, so you need to either re-tag or have the post deleted.
@RobertGrant There are questions about how to build your own pastebin, or to use a pastebin site API. But I'd still say there are not enough of those to warrant a tag.
 
11:25 AM
Plus, the latter are customer support questions :)
 
@RobertGrant depends on how it is asked. If there is a documented API and the question is about a programming problem using that API then that's okay.
but if there is a API 500 error or a question about why the API doesn't support a certain feature, then those are support questions, yes.
is taking a break from retagging for a while.
later today again.
 
Yeah, that's a useful distinction. Even though I was more slyly directing that at the serial LinkedIn-close voters (such as myself) :)
 
Voted
 
user559633
cbg all
 
11:32 AM
@tristan cbg
 
user559633
expensive couple weeks at the vet -- ~$2500 so far
 
user559633
i wonder if i can start monetizing the linkedin questions
 
Wow. What was the vet doing to you?
Something that only someone with PTSD is willing to do?
 
user559633
A favor by taking my money in exchange for services rendered.
 
Cabbage!
 
user559633
11:34 AM
cbg
 
Has anyone come across a Python-based system for assigning work/tasks to people? So you have users/groups and groups get given a task and one of the users accepts it, that sort of thing?
 
user559633
Reason for it being python based?
 
None, other than if I wanted to do something cool I'd like it to be Python :)
But if there's a standalone server thing I can call over HTTP or something and it calls back into me then I guess it doesn't matter what language it's written in
 
Voted
 
11:40 AM
Trello is good for that (of you want one but don't wanna develop it yourself)
Before we switched to using Github exclusively we used Trello for sopython-dev.
 
I'm not sure if that's what I'm after
Hm, maybe it is. I dunno.
I mean - for example - something where I can make an inbox of tasks per-user, and track how long each task is taking, and fire alerts based on when tasks were created. And certain people can reassign tasks, say if they're a team lead.
And fire events off a task being closed
 
@RobertGrant you're searching a project management sw. Trello is good at that, but you can't track time (natively i mean). You can try with Redmine but it's in RoR.
 
Well, not project management, as I'm imagining more BAU work than project work. Imagine something more like Bugzilla.
waits for someone to suggest Bugzilla
 
BAU?
 
yeah but the features of reassigning and managing teams are mainly on the PM-side of the work
 
11:44 AM
Business as usual
@PaoloCasciello nah, team leads do that. Imagine a callcentre. You don't have project managers managing a flow of work. You have team leads
 
@RobertGrant well.. that's an instance of the class :D the team leaders are doing team management of their resources. it's PM under another name. I mean, it's the same task, call it as you want. :)
 
Possibly PM is an instance of team lead :)
 
BTW Jira could be useful too but it's a dreadnought in java... ugh x_x
 
Specialising in projects
Yeah we use JIRA here. But I don't even want a UI, just something to tell me who's assigned to what, that sort of thing
 
Nope. PM follows each phase, also resource management in a lot of work environments
 
11:47 AM
Well now we're getting into the semantics of what people really are when they're called project managers
But imagine something like Bugzilla. It might have some overlap with PM software (sort of) but it's more focused on units of work, what phase they're in and who they're assigned to
Possibly I should listen to Kevin
 
Yup. Bugzilla is an issue tracker
if you need an issue tracker there's Trac in python
 
Okay cool, thanks
 
but i always had bad experience with Trac...
 
user559633
@RobertGrant jira has an API. which is to say, if you don't want a UI (meaning web), you could write a command line client
 
Thanks, maybe I'll look at that
I don't even know why I'm asking, really. I just know that this is an enterprisey area (because I work in it) and I don't like the tools I have to use
 
user559633
11:55 AM
I totally get you.
 
Too broad.
Please explain to me this templating language
 
user559633
Done.
 
The comments on the answer are especially damning: Can you please give me a more detailed explanation on what tal:condition and tal:content do?, etc.
 
user559633
I'm torn between "answering" this question and also just saying "no"... edit, nevermind, someone went with the "yes, if it's in setup"
 
@PaoloCasciello I used to love Trac, then I discovered Redmine. Never looked back
 
12:02 PM
Actually I mostly don't like the ESB I use and how I have to write so much stuff to get info out of a database
I want a SQLAlchemy-based ESB
 
@tristan I'm tempted to downvote on principal because the question begins with "So". :)
 
@IntrepidBrit i agree. redmine is good and fast. :)
 
@RobertGrant Someone's probably tried hacking something together on GitHub ;)
 
Yeah true, and any attempt I'd make would probably end up being described the same way :)
 
user559633
What are the features you need?
 
user559633
12:15 PM
I'm thinking about writing one that works entirely on pull requests and issues on github
 
Wow, okay hadn't considered that :)
I'm thinking something where you can define a task type, so it has an ID, description etc and that task type can be assigned to a certain user/group/role. It can have users picking their tasks, superusers assigning tasks, round robin assignment and work distribution (i.e. the person with the fewest tasks gets it), as well as a way of plugging in new ways of doing that. Tasks can be delegated, so a user in a delegation mode (e.g. if they're on holiday) will have their tasks auto-reassigned.
 
user559633
Oh, so you haven't thought much about it then :P
 
It'll also have various times attached: created; completed; accepted; assigned etc. Off these could run timers (so a built in timer might be an Expires After time) where say things like escalations could happen (e.g. the user hasn't finished this task after 2 working days; send an email to user and supervisor. Now set a timer for 2 more working days, whereupon it'll automatically be assigned to the supervisor instead).
 
user559633
How would you keep tasks in sync? Centralized server and polling?
 
Yeah, I almost started with that.. Not sure yet; might depend on exactly the scope of the project
brb
 
user559633
12:32 PM
 
What I think might be better is if tasks are freely available to multiple nodes (say if you scale out and have one instance per frontend webapp) and they're coordinated against users, so if a task is assigned to a user, that user can log into any node and have it available to him/her.
But actually I'm maybe not answering your question. What do you mean by tasks in sync?
 
user559633
How do you keep users from working on the same task? If I talk to one "node" and get the task, what's to prevent someone else from talking to a different "node" and getting the same one?
 
user559633
And in your idea of work distribution, how do you prevent multiple nodes from delegating at near the same time?
 
user559633
You'll need some sort of consensus protocol
 
Yeah that's a good point. Didn't think that through properly. For the first thing, I was just thinking of having a central datastore, which enterprisey types can then make clustered and SANned and whatever else. So whoever picks it up first locks it, and everyone else who hit the button at the same time doesn't get it.
 
user559633
12:37 PM
I'd suggest starting small and having the local client ask a single server for the state of a task before allowing a user to "start work"
 
For the second thing, yeah. Good point :) Actually hadn't thought that through correctly
 
user559633
Then you only have a race condition
 
user559633
A similar race condition to time of check, time of assignment on "who has the fewest tasks"
 
Maybe yeah some sort of temporary locking of a task type, so only one node can distribute at once.
That's actually quite a cool problem, because if you did use locks you might in theory need to lock all the users as well, so finding a better solution than doing that might be good.
 
user559633
So then a CA system?
 
12:40 PM
Yeah hah
 
user559633
I wouldn't worry about it until you have lots of users
 
Or one node is the master and does all of that stuff
And the problem then becomes detecting if the master's dropped off the network, and assigning the role to another node
Which might be a bit easier
 
user559633
Ha ha roll easy on that assumption
 
:)
I'll just assume the system is a perfect sphere
 
user559633
What happens when the master only dropped off for a second? Or has a flakey connection? What happens when multiple servers think they're the masters? What if you have a pool of 8 workers and 4 think one is the master and the other 4 think the same of the other
 
user559633
12:44 PM
programming is hard, let's go shopping
 
Alright, I'll bite :) My first thought: every 15s (or whatever) each node reads a node ID and a timestamp compared with the now() SQL function from the DB. If its node ID is the one in the DB, it should write an updated timestamp based on now(). (using db timestamps avoids time sync issues...I hope). If it's a different node to the one in the DB, either skip it (if the timestamp is within 1 minute of now()) or write its node ID and an updated timestamp into the table.
Read and write must be wrapped in a transaction, etc.
Something like that :) But I'm sure many holes can be poked in that.
 
user559633
Just to help your sanity here: there's no real answer to "beat" the cap theorem -- it's all in fencing your problem correctly and deciding what you're comfortable with
 
user559633
Is the node the server here?
 
user559633
wow, that's really helpful @Swordy. please, shit on actual discussion in here with stupid gifs
 
No, sorry each node is a processing node that a webapp might ask for tasks for a user.
 
12:49 PM
cbg
 
user559633
Each server is responsible for telling the (single, in this case) master that it's still alive?
 
And could possibly have the role of master in terms of assigning tasks
 
user559633
cbg @AnttiHaapala
 
@tristan no offense , I just put it up here coz I found that funny. Nothing to do with the discussion here.
 
Let's just keep talking so it disappears and I can stop seizing
 
user559633
12:50 PM
@Swordy edit it out. Thanks.
 
makes me have headache
 
gifs were supposed to be displayed as images here!!
 
user559633
moving on.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant never trust a client to do something reasonable
 
Er more like each server could be the master, and assignment will be coordinated through a database table based on timestamps - if you don't update the table with a timestamp and you're the master, then you lose that ability.
Possibly there's a much smarter way of doing that.
 
user559633
12:52 PM
What happens when you have clients talking to the read servers that are out of sync with master? How do you determine a server that's dropped off? How do you coordinate if you reassign its tasks?
 
user559633
What happens if your say "if i don't hear from you by noon, you're considered dead" and then it responds at noon o'one
 
Because the read servers will all talk to a single database anyway
So if they lose their DB connection then they explode
 
which editor are you using for python guys ?
 
I'm probably not thinking about the same problem you are
 
user559633
@RobertGrant you are :)
 
12:55 PM
Okay :)
 
user559633
You'll get there when you have distributed read and write servers.
 
user559633
 
So (to make sure I'm making myself clear) I'm not thinking of tasks vanishing from the DB into the servers once they're assigned. They'll all still be there, it's just that the job of assigning work will be only one node's job at once.
 
user559633
Yeah, I understand. The problem is when you have an update and you make the assumption that the read servers a) all see it b) see it at roughly the same time
 
What sort of update?
 
user559633
12:59 PM
"Ticket has been assigned to Blathan" or "Ticket Catdirt has been closed" or "There are updates to Dogdirt Project"
 
Oh, sorry yeah. That makes sense, and now you say it seems difficult.
 

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