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12:02 AM
cbg
 
morning
 
 
3 hours later…
2:53 AM
Lol, a user deleted a question I had answered. I guess he was embarrassed by the simple answer.
ah, the ego :D
 
 
3 hours later…
5:26 AM
cbgg
 
cbbg
 
5:48 AM
Hi
 
2 messages moved to Trash
Hi @Guaranga - please read sopython.com/pages/chatroom - especially:
> Do not link your recently posted questions in the room. The main site is the dedicated space for posting questions, and having them answered.
 
hmmm
thanks for sharing the guidelines
 
No problem :-)
 
but can you please tell what I we need a quick answer?
 
If anyone in here can help and has the time and/or inclination to answer your question, they'll be monitoring SO, will see your question, and will answer it.
 
6:05 AM
ok
thanks :)
 
6:33 AM
cbg
 
@ZeroPiraeus I think he included the whole project
 
The code bears no relation to the question, is the weird thing.
 
6:50 AM
cbg
 
cbg @Jon :-)
 
you're up late? :)
 
DSM
Temporary cabbage for all!
 
and to you @DSM :)
 
DSM
@Jon: yeah, I saw the union. :-) But to my surprise, I don't see the little pencil beside your comment showing that an edit was made. Am I crazy, or did that used to be a thing?
 
7:03 AM
That's been around since I've used SO :)
 
@DSM yeah, it still is!
 
DSM
So where is it?!
 
Ooo... I see what you mean
 
There, on mine.
 
I've removed my comments on poke's post anyway
 
DSM
7:05 AM
@Jon: as have I. @Robert: pardon?
 
Oh... @DSM my bad... I didn't edit it... I deleted it and added another one
 
DSM
Ahhh! Hiding the proof of your nefariousness!
 
Yes, I'm a machiavellian puppy :)
 
@DSM two messages of mine above this one was edited, and I can see the pencil
 
DSM
@Robert: ah, got you.
 
7:08 AM
Sorry, wasn't very clear :)
 
DSM
Okay, 2:10 AM local time -- time to shut it down, I think. Early morning rhubarb for all!
 
Cheers :)
 
7:30 AM
@JoshuaFrank a) a pretty good idea doesn't mean anything when LinkedIn could change how the internals of their system works. Only they can answer it; if you rely on what people observe, then you're going to make something of poor quality, and it's scary for your employer that you think otherwise. Therefore: b) Only LinkedIn (or their docs) can answer this. c) Not every problem you hit during development is a programming problem. Finally d) If you can't figure out something in C# you don't contact MS customer support :) — Robert Grant 10 mins ago
@RobertGrant sticking your neck out there - he's not a happy bunny as it is :)
 
Yeah but I followed it up :)
 
yeah.... I saw that - be interesting to see if there's any response :)
 
I'm in a combative mood
Or maybe irreverent is a better word
 
7:46 AM
either way - it's a good couple of comments :)
 
Haha thanks
 
cbg
 
@vaultah cbg
 
Cheers for that comment @Robert, I'd just decided to walk away :p
Oh and cbg
 
7:55 AM
Yeah I probably won't reply again :)
Cbg
 
That's for SO hey :)
 
^^^ Stack Exchange's - no green tick next to "Do you have testers?" - I guess that's honest :p
or is it they've got about 1.4 million of them? :p
 
<100 rep to go...It's time for an 80s montage...
 
Look at the comments on the question - I love that :)
 
8:04 AM
Wow I say "Let's have an 80s montage a lot..." chat.stackoverflow.com/search?room=6&q=montage
 
YOU CAN DO IT - I BELIEVE IN YOU!
 
@Ffisegydd crop-top wearing beach hug time!
 
cbg
 
8:31 AM
To the benevolent upvoter: thanks for the rep :P I just hope it doesn't trigger the serial upvoting reversal thing.
 
Cbg :)
 
Cbg
 
How be @Ffisegydd?
 
Not bad, about to leave the house for work.
You?
 
Yeh good thanks, already at work! o.O
 
8:34 AM
hello
 
Hi @Reut
 
bbiab
 
8:49 AM
cbg all
 
Cbg dude
How's it going?
 
cbg(all)
 
Anyone here used Bottle before? Whenever I auth to the Zabbix API for use from within bottle, it doesn't work. I believe it's because on the next load of a page, it's no longer tied to that instance of the API I created. Any idea how to fix that?
 
Cabbage!
@JonClements There are “testers” but they don’t listen to them :P
Wow, where did all those upvotes come from…
 
9:05 AM
。。。
 
I went ahead and posted my question. I'll link it here in case anyone thinks of something:
 
1 message moved to recycle bin
Please don’t advertise your new questions on chat. If they didn’t get any attention within a few days, you may do so to get some fresh eyes on it, but otherwise please trust the system that your question will eventually be answered.
@AshwiniChaudhary TIL
 
@poke I hang out in here all the time, I'm friends with a few of the people here. I was posting the question to see what they thought of it.
 
@Ffisegydd Built two more apps for Mom. A school for children with autism is now interested in one of the apps I've built. Turns out some of this stuff has wider applicability
 
@inspector that's awesome. If you need any help then let me know, would be interested in contributing if I can.
 
9:18 AM
I have a lot of hacked together code (we needed the apps ASAP, so I threw elegance to the wind). The biggest challenge for me right now is to find time to parametrize it and make it clean. If that interests you, I can start the github
 
@Soviero Even so, it’s one of our very few rules.
 
Yeah I can certainly give it a look over, can't promise I'll understand much of it but I can try :P
 
sounds good. I'll host the code as http accessible for now. Let me know if you're interested and I'll put it up on github
 
It'd probably be easier to comment on it using GH, but for now to just look at it http is fine.
 
I understand it would be easier, but I'm severely lacking time here. I do my dev in 10-15 minute spurts, which is why I'm opting for hackier solutions of late
 
9:22 AM
Yeah I understand.
 
uploading as we speak
@Ffisegydd: here is the subdir you need. createPage.py is the main runnable
 
@inspectorG4dget You meant @Ffisegydd?
 
;-;
 
yeah. Eff!
 
lol :D
 
9:25 AM
:P
 
print("Love you sir :P ") — Umair 22 secs ago
Only slightly disconcerting...
 
my brain be swimming in a soup
 
@JonClements What’s with that trailing whitespace?
 
@Ffisegydd: also, I just uploaded a zip of that directory to the same location, to make for easy downloading
 
@inspectorG4dget awesome, I assume the page is self-contained so I could just look at it locally and have things work?
 
9:27 AM
yes. That is the intended usage
 
Awesome. Will look at that later this evening then.
 
the zip file is ultimately transferred onto an iPad using a filemanager app, which then renders the HTML using a proprietary browser. Since the app is self contained, the page is hosted locally on the iPad (works the same way on the desktop)
Thank you. Ping me here or on email to take things further :)
 
Hmm I don't think I have your email address, so I'll ping you here probably.
 
sounds good (though if you prefer my email, it's listed here)
 
'ashtopgun'? Best username ever.
 
9:33 AM
lol.. made it when I was 17/18.. back when I wanted to join the air force instead of doing my undergrad
Thanks again for offering to help out. Will look out for your ping
 
9:49 AM
I keep thinking about quora vs SE, and how SE could be a bit more like quora if it integrated its sites better
As a random thought
 
io.StringIO is one of my favourite bits of Python.
 
But I guess it doesn't want to be like quora. There are just some amazing quora questions and answers and I'm really starting to enjoy it
 
Arghghg... just realised I almost rep-capped yesterday
 
Pah. Where's DSM when you need him?
Never mind solved it myself. I've got a "give me teh codez" question that I'm tempted to answer.
 
You're allowed to to get to 10k I think :p
 
10:01 AM
oh wow, people are up
@RobertGrant whats your time zone man. i see you here most of the time.
i got a question
how can i create path to cloud drive on mac
/Users/ajgauravdeep/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs/bugs.txt

This is example of path of a file on cloud drive
 
@AjGauravdeep the world is my time zone
 
thats the answer... :)
 
I'm actually GMT+2
:)
 
well i am from PST
haha
 
10:06 AM
@Ffisegydd woo hoo - I answered a numpy question - I just hope I'm correct
 
Link?
 
Answer to password changing question - do people agree with this? ux.stackexchange.com/questions/72259/should-passwords-expire/…
 
I'd rather not answer a securityish question badly :)
 
Anyone here used Beaker?
 
10:16 AM
I think that may have been the longest answer I've ever written.
 
Cabbage
 
Cbg dude
 
cbg ya scallywag! :)
 
How's it going?
 
got my cold/bug thingy back :(
other than that fine...
 
10:23 AM
I'm pretty sure I could have used a pivot table on that question :P ah pivot table...
 
@JonClements Urgh. Just get a bacon roll and a cuppa. Fixes all
 
@Ffisegydd don't mention pivot table - it's like pouring salt in to a wound :*(
Umm.. at least this guy's being honest: stackoverflow.com/questions/28064726/…
 
@JonClements and using his real name, I assume
 
Added the pivot_table solution in too :P
 
@RobertGrant just seen your comment on that - I was thinking it rings some bells as well :)
 
10:30 AM
:)
 
db.py looks quite cool; anyone used it?
 
any pycharm users in the house?
 
10:36 AM
cbg
@inspectorG4dget yes, ish
 
@inspector yarp.
 
hey @MartijnPieters: I've always wondered what IDE you use
alright PyCharm guys, I have a question for you
 
@RobertGrant sqlalchemy still works better even for that case :d
 
He uses a magnet and a HDD.
 
(almost)
 
10:37 AM
you mean, not a butterfly?
 
@inspectorG4dget Sublime Text 3
 
Butterfly is still in beta.
 
Not an IDE, it's a text editor principally.
but with Python plugins.
 
When I use command+/ to comment out a line, pycharm puts the "#" at the beginning of the logical line - indented at the same level as is the python code itself
 
10:38 AM
@inspectorG4dget now most of his coding is remote, he just morse-codes the 0s and 1s directly into an ethernet connection
 
any reason you don't use vim + ctags + similar plugins/customizations, @MartijnPieters?
 
but I control Sublime Text 3 with a butterfly, yeah, totally.
@inspectorG4dget I used to use ViM
but I got lazy.
 
I still have my huge .vim config that I lug from machine to machine and I still fire it up on terminals.
 
so is there a way I can force pycharm to put the comment symbol at the start of the physical line, such that the indentations come after the comment symbol?
 
10:40 AM
@inspectorG4dget remembering what order to apply encryption, compression, network protocols and CRC checks to his information is the hard bit
 
@MartijnPieters dude, that's awesome!
 
@inspectorG4dget let me boot it up on this machine
 
Apparently it can be done in IntelliJIdea, and the settings dialog shows that it can be done for some other languages like JS. But I can't find it for python
@Ffisegydd Thanks. Appreciate it
 
@inspectorG4dget if it can be done in IntelliJIdea then it should be possible in PyCharm, they're the same IDE effectively.
 
@RobertGrant hard bit <- pun intended?
 
10:41 AM
Well, I spotted it before I hit enter, if that counts :)
 
He's not clever eno- yeah I'm sure it was intended.
 
@AnttiHaapala I really need to use sqlalchemy in anger; unfortunately I have no spare time at the moment to start a new project with it. So annoying.
 
hmmhmm
what can I say :D
the merits of sqla are not apparent in small scale obviously
@RobertGrant if you have a simple db you can try to autogenerate sqlalchemy model for it :P
and start hacking from there
 
Yeah but that's okay; I like picking technologies that are the right solution and learning them. I don't have enough time to waste on just anything. Which is why I'm regretting helping a friend with a Laravel project
 
@Ffisegydd I found the option for languages like JS in PyCharm, but couldn't find it for python
 
10:45 AM
Yeah that sounds cool. Could I do that from IPython?
@inspectorG4dget that's weird
 
@MartijnPieters: do you host your vimrc somewhere online so you can download it onto a new machine?
 
See where it says "Line comment at first column"? I think that's what I'm after
 
@AnttiHaapala cool!
I might actually try using that at work, to save me firing up a SQL environment
 
10:47 AM
Thanks
 
@inspectorG4dget I use a cloud backup solution, and I restore from that onto new machines.
 
ahh. Makes sense
 
And by "cloud backup solution" he means his mind
 
brb. I think mom just woke up and I have to go do therapy things
 
the answer to that just-cv'd question obviously is github.com/ztane/Tonnikala
:P (damnit should invest some time on it)
 
10:51 AM
@RobertGrant @Ffisegydd: any luck with that commenting thing on PyCharm?
 
@inspectorG4dget no not really :/ I tested it on my machine and it was the same. Couldn't find any options for it, I'll have a look later but it might be worth opening a ticket with Jetbrains, IIRC their support is very good.
 
@RobertGrant it is easier on the people around me when I use terms they can relate to.
 
k thanks @Ffisegydd. Will open a ticket tonight. Their support has indeed been awesome in the past
Alright folks! it's been fun talking to you, as always. But mom has awoken from her nap, which means I need to start therapy activities with her. Cheers all! Rhubarb.
 
@inspectorG4dget take care!
 
11:07 AM
Baaaaaaaaaaaah and/or humbug
Having intermittent internet at the office grumbles
 
@MartijnPieters you're so kind :)
 
@Intrepid did you ever sort stuff out with those women you were oggling facing?
 
Wow who just starred that comment of mine from an hour ago :)
 
@Ffisegydd They've solved the problem for me. They just leave the blinds down. It's a solution. I'm going to be childish and let them roast in their office haha
 
Set up a telescope next to your desk and walk around with your hands in your pockets all day.
 
11:15 AM
@RobertGrant Be careful - Kevin is very protective of the starred list :p
 
@Ffisegydd should that be on programmers?
@JonClements each star I take weakens him
@Ffisegydd ah, I think it's a cool question for a nonprogrammer to ask. No vote from sympathy
 
@Ffisegydd Excellent. And wear a hat indoors and dark sunglasses.
 
11:55 AM
@RobertGrant The bank example is pretty bad as banks often have a very bad password security (we still have 4-digit PINs for our cards!?). But in general I agree, use OpenId or similar for authentication purposes, don’t make your own faulty system. The reason my Google account is more secure isn’t about the password but about its two-factor authorization.
Also, expiring passwords are just bad. They force users to get used to new passwords all the time, which usually means that they will come up with less-safe passwords (since they need to remember the new ones all the time) or write them down somewhere to remember them.
 
@poke 4-digit PINs and three guesses :)
And Google is also more secure because they probably employ more people just to think about security (let alone code it) than most people can afford to employ to develop their whole application :)
Okay, the PythonAnywhere initial experience is way better than Heroku's
 
Can someone poke his or her nose at this bit of documentation and try to explain what initialize does?
 
Good dupe for 'how does tuple assignment work'? The question there is rather broad, but I'd prefer to dupe it rather than close as too broad.
 
@Martijn yeah...was just looking for one - not found a good one so far
 
12:11 PM
there is stackoverflow.com/questions/21047524/…, but that's very technical.
ah, already duped now.
that's a good target, actually.
 
what is ROT TWO?
 
@ReutSharabani bytecode for 'rotate the top two items on the stack'
so top goes to second place, second place goes to top.
 
that's not very generic :D
 
cbg
 
@ReutSharabani stack operations are very common in a stack-based bytecode language.
shuffling the top two or three elements of a stack makes certain operations more efficient.
 
12:15 PM
@MartijnPieters In other stack based languages that op is special enough to warrant its own keyword eg exch
 
there is also ROT THREE
but 3+ is BUILD_TUPLE + UNPACK_SEQUENCE
 
@ReutSharabani yes, because by that time the number of bytecode ops needed to shuffle the stack would be equal or more than using UNPACK SEQUENCE.
so the advantage is lost.
 
I'm not much of an assembly guy :)
just saw it's all in the answer
 
@ReutSharabani Gurl'er ylvat; vg'f npghnyyl gur abbo irefvba bs guvf njrfbzr rapelcgvba grpuavdhr
 
sure...
 
12:25 PM
I always preferred rot 26 myself
 
Certainly makes decoding an O(0) operation
 
@RobertGrant In rot2, that'd be
Vjga'tg nakpi; kv'u cevwcnna vjg pqqd xgtukqp qh vjku cyguqog gpetarvkqp vgejpkswg
 
Kind of looks like a cross between Klingon and Welsh
 
It used be common to use rot13 as a way to do spoilers; I can still read it & write it by hand, but I'm not as fast as I used to be. :)
 
@Ffisegydd yeah.
 
12:32 PM
Here's some simple rot code
import sys, readline

lobase = ord('a')
hibase = ord('A')

def rot(c, delta):
    if c.isalpha():
        base = lobase if c.islower() else hibase
        c = chr(base + (ord(c) - base + delta) % 26)
    return c

def main():
    delta = int(sys.argv[1]) if len(sys.argv) > 1 else 13

    while True:
        try:
            s = raw_input()
            print ''.join(rot(c, delta) for c in s)
        except EOFError:
            break
 
What rot!
giggles
 
I used to muck around with a word game I called rotagrams: looking for words or phrases that turn into an anagram of themselves when rot13-coded.
Occasionally you find sequences that reverse themselves like gnat <-> tang
 
Hah yeah I just came across that while trying to find an anagram, although didn't realise it's also a reversal
 
@PM2Ring in Py 2.x - just use 'blah'.encode('rot13') :)
 
@JonClements Fair point. I wrote the above code before I knew about that codec. OTOH, my code is a general Cæsar cypher encoder / decoder.
 
12:43 PM
Umm... can still be simplified a lot though :)
 
I just noticed that Eg, Robert' is a rotagram: it goes to Rt, Eboreg`
Not quite a reversal, but close. :)
@JonClements Still preserving case? I guess these days I'd probably do something with a bytearray, but I'd like to see your code.
 
Umm... guess I'd better write some then? :p
 
Yeah. :)
I s'pose str.translate() is probably a sensible option.
 
I would use str.translate if it was only rot13.
As I'd hard-code the strings.
 
yup... bloomin' annoying to get it cross 2.x and 3.x though
 
12:48 PM
The easy thing to do there is to just support 3.x :P
 
@JonClements I guess so. I don't do Python 3, but IIRC string.maketrans() is gone in Py3. But can't you do something with a custom codec?
 
cel
 
In Python 3 it's str.maketrans
 
from string import ascii_lowercase, ascii_uppercase

def rot(text, delta):
    lower = ascii_lowercase[delta:] + ascii_lowercase[:delta]
    upper = ascii_uppercase[delta:] + ascii_uppercase[:delta]
    lookup = {ord(ch): other for ch, other in zip(ascii_lowercase, lower)}
    lookup.update((ord(ch), other) for ch, other in zip(ascii_uppercase, upper))
    return text.translate(str.maketrans(lookup))
think that should work anyway
 
@JonClements mentioned sphere to the PythonAnywhere chaps
 
12:53 PM
Looks good to me
 
@JonClements I think they remember: Interesting! So you send them some code via a web request, it runs in some kind of secure environment, and you get the output back -- is that right? I do remember talking to Jon Clements about that a while back but it looks like it kind of dropped by the wayside...
 
Ahh... are you talking to Giles?
 
Say hi from me then :)
 
I told him to drop by here :)
 

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