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user559633
ugh then you'd get into the my-little-pony/furry/pedo internet
@Kevin Googled it
@tristan Now that was weird to read.
Odds are more like 100% if you use an actual name before "the hedgehog"
“You’d get into my little <weird things> internet”
user559633
15:01
Amazing.
(Now expecting, "not 100%, I googled '田中太郎 The Hedgehog' and got no results")
user559633
egg drop soup the hedgehog?
@Kevin That’s because you are googling a full name.
It’s like googling “Bruce Wayne The Hedgehog”
Don't tempt me.
user559633
15:03
And...google image search really quickly gets into the shameful internet
Incidentally, every time you see me mention the name "田中太郎", it's always those same characters because I'm just copy-pasting it from the article "falsehoods programmers believe about names"
user559633
falsehoods programmers believe they should care about when writing code
Wow... why is the font on stackoverflow.com/tools so bloomin' huge!?
@Kevin that's dedication. The sub-jokes of sopython run deep.
"This page requires more privileges" Damn you! 431 more rep!
@JonClements Because of terrible inconsistencies I’m complaining about the whole day.
I've ordered a George Foreman grill. Gonna pick it up on the way home from work. I love them so much.
does stackoverflow look a little different?
everything seems a lot more flat
@Game nope it's just you.
15:12
yea
delete looks rather large
@poke umm... I'm all for change, but not sure why it's required... and it's broken so many things... it's a bad change imho
That question seems to take for granted the idea that it's even possible to enumerate all existing programming languages.
No Games it's definitely just you. It's the CSS getting back at you for refusing to support mobile on your blog.
user559633
@JonClements see side bar about having to give front end devs and designers something to do during the hat-offseason
@Ffisegydd lol, good one XD
15:14
@tristan so as a back-end developer, I should when not busy, take a functional system that no-one really had any problems with, and introduce annoying bugs? :p
@JonClements That’s what I was saying all the time.
When I go through the “voiced concerns” in that thread, half of those high voted issues are still present, so obviously the style isn’t ready for the big public facing SO yet. — poke 4 hours ago
Why did this go live on SO when there were apparently still so many issues (which didn’t get fixed on SO)? Also, can we get a new question to discuss this since this one is old and so overused already? It’s hard to navigate. — poke 8 hours ago
I think that change is required occasionally, even for changes sake, it helps to keep things fresh. However the change shouldn't break things.
@poke umm... had already upvoted that first comment
user559633
@JonClements absolutely. why do you think that OSX is getting so many stupid visual changes, yet my audio gets balanced to the right once a week?
user559633
15:16
when not busy, it's your job to introduce and support features no one asked for
Everything is terrible, all the time.
@Kevin now, now Marvin... cheer up
@Ffisegydd If I put a preview on meta in November, and get three pages of constructive criticism, I absolutely don’t push the same changes then live on SO without fixing anything of it.
It was a terrible decision.
Time to fork the codebase. See you guys at Core Dump, the hot new Q&A site.
user559633
I'll make sure the tapestries reflect your piousness
15:19
Even I can style a page better... and my design skill is beans
@Kevin I thought it was called “Queue Circle”?
user559633
ring dump
Wait... I thought we agreed on "CabbageOverflow" ?
It has to be vaguely dirty if we want to compete with expertsexchange.
user559633
amateursexchange
15:20
@Kevin I wonder if they did that deliberate, or the same agency registered it, as penisland
Well, it got us talking about it...
@poke I absolutely agree. There are issues. My point was not that there aren't issues, but that people can sometimes rally against change, saying that things didn't need changing. I disagree. I think it's good that websites get changed/tidied up every so often, it helps to keep them fresh. Of course, these changes shouldn't break things (which these have).
user559633
I wonder when stackoverflow will add the linkedin feed on the main site
J J.F. Sebastian found a better dupe at stackoverflow.com/questions/12281975/…
15:24
@Ffisegydd Absolutely. I usually embrace new changes, regardless of how hard they hit me in the face. That’s why I quickly liked Vista over XP, 7 over Vista, and had no problems with Windows 8 after 3 days. It’s important to eventually unlearn things to accept new things. But those shouldn’t be broken.
And in this particular case it's a double-shame. Not only are the changes broken but I actually like the flat look better. So it's not just "Oh well, change is good!" but "I like this change!...and it's borked."
Incidentally, I spoke this week with a coworker about the ribbon menu Microsoft introduced with Office 2007. It was originally a very disruptive change, but we both couldn’t imagine working with the clunky full menubar anymore…
@Ffisegydd Same.
I hate these new blue buttons, they look like they came from 2005 :/
Anyone familiar with tkinter's Listbox
The blue is just weird because nothing else on the site is remotely close to that color.
@BhargavRao just ask your actual question
15:28
I've got a prob with selectmode ... How can you set it to select a max value
MULTIPLE makes it select any number of values
knowing nothing about tkinter, and assuming there's no min/max args, and assuming you can have a callback for when a value is selected, and assuming you can change what is selected programatically, I would have a callback that tracks what options are selected so far, and if too many are selected then deselect the new ones
Yeah, even I thought of doin so. But just felt lazy to do
:(
why did that feel lazy?
As the de facto Tkinter expert of the room, I endorse this approach.
Well then, I better start off. Isn't there any other way ?
15:32
Actually, oops, there's no way to track selected values.
> Unfortunately, the listbox doesn’t provide a command option allowing you to track changes to the selection. The standard solution is to bind a double-click event to the same callback as the OK (or Select, or whatever) button.
Damn ... Why u do this tkinter ?
stop putting spaces before your question marks grumble grumble
Because it enjoys your suffering .
@Ffisegydd kicked :-P
15:34
Tkinter grievance #16 added.
bad @Ffisegydd !
Nope bad @tkinter
that's right @Kevin, you better edit that one out!
I ' m sorry . Honestly , I am . I won ' t do it again .
@davidism : - )
15:35
lol
The greatest thing in py is that it is damn friendly with spaces.....
This Tkinter tutorial unironically uses the phrase "In versions before Python 1.5..." and it hurts me greatly
Oh god... those buttons look even worse when using an external display
The question for closing has a space between e and ?
15:38
No I just put that in in the MD to break davidism's mind.
to break davidism ' s mind ?
22
Q: Is it ever correct to have a space before a question or exclamation mark?

remIn written English (mainly online) I often come across sentences ending with a question or an exclamation mark with a space before it. Is it always just an error or a typo? Or there are cases when it is a correct English, for example after closing parentheses or some other punctuation marks?

How far can we stretch this joke before he goes mad and kills us all, you ask ? All the way ...
DSM
DSM
@Fizzy: was sleeping, and it looks like it's already been answered.. :-(
Morning cabbage for all!
His pic looks like he ' s annoyed
DSM
DSM
15:40
What's the right CV for questions like this? Rec req or too broad?
Okay we should stop now.
O . K . Let ' s stop now .
WHAT HAVE I DONE? D:
That emotion isn't annoyance. It's clearly scuba diving related anticipation.
@DSM I went too broad.
15:42
I am not impressed, and neither is my avatar. :-|
@Ffisegydd for a second I thought you were making a clever joke about going too far and making the sentences too broad. But you weren't that clever!
Gone
Mitch speaking like a bit**
15:44
That's their 100 point association bonus gone.
Who's Mitch? And what is he speaking about?
Oh, wait, now I filled in the *'s.
(enough offensive flags and they are hit with a -100 penalty too).
Mitch Hedberg? I love that guy.
"An escalator can never break. It can only become stairs"
@Kevin Just take out one or more of the treads..
I figured it was the meta post, but it's gone now, so I couldn't read the sweet, offensive drama.
15:46
He had something to say about the redesign that wasn't.. nice.
As much as I love the 'Berg, I'm pretty sure an escalator can break. For example, if it bursts into flames.
DSM
DSM
That just ups its awesome.
Or if it accelerates to 88 mph.
To be fair I think a lot of us have had things that weren't nice to say about the redesign ... I haven't had to monkey around with userContent.css since I gave up on the Gmail web client, until today.
Or, what if it accelerates and bursts into flames?
15:48
@Kevin as long as it doesn't have a flux capacitor installed, it should be fine...
:-)
Then it accelerates, bursts into flames, and vanishes completely into the past.
@Zero well, if it's taken ~6 weeks to ignore feedback, launch it broken, then I imagine we'll just have to live with it while it may/may not be undergoing bug fixing for the next 6 months ;)
@Kevin what if it vanishes into the past first though?
I can live with most of it ... and now I can tell the difference between read and unread questions again :-)
@Zero have you seen the font size on tools though? :)
"people occasionally show me photos and say 'here's a picture of me from when I was younger' and I tell them 'every photo is from when you were younger'"
15:51
Had me thinking I'd somehow triggered a key press to over-ride font sizes or something
"'here's a picture from when I was older', 'wow, how'd you do that? What kind of camera have you got?'"
DSM
DSM
Not true. Jon showed us a photo from when he was younger and he wasn't even in the picture..
@JonClements Oof, that's a bit off. You'd have thought they'd have reached out to some active high-rep users for user testing ...
DSM
DSM
I look forward to the "how things went so wrong" podcast.
@davidism Sorry, should have used tomato instead of the stars
15:53
Personally, I'm not all that bothered by the change, although admittedly I haven't explored all of the pages I regularly use, e.g. the badges page.
So I'm going with ambivalence, but I reserve the right to switch to indignance if I discover anything especially boneheaded
DSM
DSM
I've been experimenting with browsers recently trying to prevent ESPN Flash videos from crashing everything, so when I first saw the new arrangement I thought something I'd done had changed my display defaults.
@DSM I'd just cleaned my monitor and keyboard before loading SO, so I figured I'd hit some keys, or worse - I'd used bad cleaning fluid... :)
@JonClements Yeah, I am a little worried that the SE design team is way overworked and doesn't respond to bug reports in any timely fashion. I've seen that on Meta SE, then on Meta SO and I fear that SO is now stuck with things for a while too.
I suppose we only see SO (or one of the other programming sites sometimes) but they also have to crack out designs for all the Area 51 sites. There's 133 sites now.
True, but they could focus on the new sites and not break the existing ones :)
16:01
Not to mention any internal tools and such that they need to develop.
Okay... so US Intelligence agencies and British Intelligence agencies are going to cyber attach each other to increase system security :)
go Team Britain! :)
Shall we break into "Rule Britannia"?
this could be like a new international sport... "Code Olympics" or something
@JonClements That sounds like an awesome idea. They could start by putting glue into the locks of each others' respective headquarters ...
16:10
> Mr Cameron has previously said in relation to cyber attacks that there should be no "means of communication" which "we cannot read".
Clearly false. This clown has never heard of the one-time pad.
Besides - one can just encrypt data before passing it to a network... they've got their work cut out :)
They're banned now. All forms of random number generation are banned in UK
So errr.... do I have to get rid of my dice then?
@Ffisegydd Not true - you just need to get an Entropy Licence; the forms will be in your local post office.
Yep. Hand them into the nearest police station
16:13
More troubling, what about the trace radioactive elements in your body, which decay in randomly unpredictable sequences?
By the way, anyone here nearby Manchester and fancy a job interview for a contract at quite a good rate?
No? Didn't think there were. I turned down the recruiter on the commute alone.
@MartijnPieters What's a good rate? Just curious.
@FaheemMitha in the UK? Depends on the location; London pays more than many other places.
The contract in Manchester was apparently for £450 a day, but I have 0 details on what you are expected to do for that. That's quite high for outside London.
@MartijnPieters Ok. I just meant the specific job you were talking about.
@MartijnPieters Hmm, that's a lot of money.
Why does this place_forget() work only on double click?
16:17
I'd not travel from my current location to London for that, and Manchester is further away still.
Are these Python type programming jobs?
user2555451
Boy is Meta lighting up with bug reports. Some are hardly even bugs and others have been know for a long time now. It sometimes feels like people are just trying to ding the new design.
@iCodez well, I think it's fair to expect the ones that were already known to have been fixed before releasing a new design first :)
I think most people are just mythed that if all the previous bugs are there, and there's new ones introduced by the new design, then it really wasn't a good idea to launch it now
@FaheemMitha yes, senior engineer positions with Python as the main language.
I don't have several million users, but if I launched this "new design" to a client, I'd fully expect them to be on the phone complaining - especially if I hadn't fixed previous bugs as part of it
16:22
@MartijnPieters Ok.
DSM
DSM
Why are there never 800$/day Python programming contracting positions near me? Was I mean to small animals in a past life?
user2555451
Maybe the devs wanted to see if some of the "bugs" disappeared with SO's color theme.
@DSM you were actually tristan in a past life and were mean to people who post bad questions.
user2555451
But I meant more posts like this one: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/283753/2555451
user2555451
That comment problem has been here for a long time.
16:23
@iCodez well, you do that on a test system, then test it and see if the bugs disappear before launching it, surely? :p
@DSM Because I apply to each one, exactly one second before you could get to it.
user2555451
I thought production was testing? :P
@Ffisegydd Who is this tristan you speak of?
Whoa whoa whoa, what's this "testing" thing?
@FaheemMitha don't use that name - it may summon the MTFL! :(
16:25
@JonClements MTFL? Obscure acronym altert.
DSM
DSM
Which isn't really Salad, but whatever..
@Ffisegydd Stiill in the dark here.
@DSM the definition of "Salad" is fairly flexible these days
16:28
@Faheem about who? Tristan? He's one of the regulars. He's a lovable scamp deep down inside, but sometimes he can be terse with people who ask poor questions/abuse our niceness.
@Ffisegydd Yes, Tristan.
DON'T USE THE NAME! :p
Loveable scamp? Hmm.
@JonClements Is this like Voldemort?
Nah, Voldemort's actually quite a nice guy... this is far worse...
I think of @tristan as our very own Paula ;-)
16:30
Is he from tristan da cunha ?
user2555451
@ZeroPiraeus - Ack! You pinged him! He'll be here now.
Wonder if we could get away calling him Paula... that might be fun :p
user2555451
Hooray! It looks like we'll get rid of those BLUE buttons: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/283685/2555451
user2555451
That was the only thing I really disliked about this UI update.
David Fullerton on January 16, 2015

There was a time where it seemed like we barely even needed to talk about this: Joel had won the argument, the Internet agreed that private offices were the future, and only incompetent management (or a tight budget) was still putting developers in cubicle farms. A glorious future lay before us.

The original Fog Creek Bionic Office, way back in ye olde 2003. We didn’t have iPhones, but at least the offices had doors.

Unfortunately, that’s not quite how it turned out. Open plans have been surprisingly hard to kill, despite research showing that they’re unpopular, decrease employee satisfact …

probably in response to the comments in the HN article yesterday: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8892587
16:43
I'm in a semi-open office. Everyone's monitor faces the wall, but I can make awkward eye contact with six people.
Just pick on one, then keep making eye contact and looking away until they freak out
Then have a go at them by asking what they think they're doing keep looking at you :p
DSM
DSM
One of the kids in the office and I had a plan where we were going to gaslight a new hire by pretending that one of our interns (who's now gone part time to prep for his MCATs) that she'd only met once didn't exist.
Sounds like a good plan for me :)
DSM
DSM
Unfortunately said kid forgot and now the two of them are BFFs, so I've lost an ally..
Woo hooo - Another episode of "Death In Paradise"... on iPlayer... one of my favs....
16:58
@JonClements No need to make eye contact ... just change their desktop wallpaper:
user image
5
@Zero remotely?
Wow... I have so saved that... I reckon a puppy one would be cool :)
Exaggerating the eyes.... could well end up creepy
woohoo! :)
Feel free to use it as your campaign poster in the mod elections :-)
I'd love to... but not sure if it'd enhance or self-sabotage the campaign :)
heya @rsfinn
17:10
@ZeroPiraeus Incredible :-)
one more, too broad.
ah, done.
Added my delete vote; the one answer isn't very constructive (you could've Googled it, dude!).
Love that passive aggressive "thanks for your lecture"
You're welcome. Hopefully you've learned to ask good questions next time.
I feel like 99% of the time I see a "thanks for answering my question" comment, it's meant to be a vicious jab at everyone that didn't
@Kevin the justification in the comment; I know this is frowned upon, but I really wanted to ask anyway because I searched real hard.
and then demand feedback on the downvotes.
Sorry OP, your jabs merely glance off my heart, which is made of stone
Arguably, "I couldn't find an answer elsewhere" is necessary, but not sufficient, for a good SO question.
@Kevin the claim is not sufficient. I searched google with these specific terms and the first 3 pages of results contained dross that wasn't helpful because a, b, c.
Anyone can claim they searched. I want to verify that you searched.
17:24
Hey can guys with damn high rep see deleted questions or is it just that the mods can see
@BhargavRao >10k
SO is the "show me" site :-) Show me what you tried, show me your stack trace, show me your search terms.
Ummm.... deleted questions aren't so obvious now are they
Cool ... Then can anyone above 10k tell as to why this was deleted ?
I can see deleted questions, but I don't know if that's because of my rep or my special eyes.
user2555451
17:26
@BhargavRao - It looks like the user was removed.
That question was deleted by Community♦, who I think is a robot.
@BhargavRao deleted by Community♦ Jan 2 at 0:51 - and the user is deleted - so it's possible the user had lots of posts flagged
That's crap ... lost 46 rep
My condolences.
17:28
Also, it appears another answerer also had their account deleted - so it's possible sock puppeting or similar was suspected
hmm... not really sure what these addons on heroku do for mongodb. Can I just have a database at some url and link to it without the addon?
DSM
DSM
Aargh, have nice technique for something but it won't work because the OP wants [a,b] instead of [a,b).
Apply same technique, but do b = b - sys.float_info.epsilon at the beginning
Or, uh, plus instead of minus. I'm tired.
DSM
DSM
Blek.
That is the correct response. You have passed the Test of the Dumb Idea.
user559633
17:38
@ZeroPiraeus that's quite a reference
Mikky Ekko's album is gonna be awesome
@JonClements: what made you think an exception would be thrown?
Same question?
17:40
Yeah :-)
user2555451
Yup. Kevin wins by a few seconds. :(
@JonClements: nice save :-P
upvoted.
@Martijn yeah... exception was completely the wrong word... and I meant [5] not leaving in [-1] blah - must have caught something from @Kevin :p
This is why you have to update your antivirus, people.
DSM
DSM
17:46
Hah. I think I figured out how to do it without any epsilon hacks, but I need to write a brute force method to test it, just to check..
Hey - YOU.. go look at http://stackoverflow.com right now and complement @jzy and @stephane_m_ for the awesome facelift #abouttime
^ lol…
user559633
you should tell him that @jzy and @stephane_m_ aren't going to have sex with him
user559633
complement? So, like, wear clothes of similar colors?
@Martijn no one posted rest = (s.split('|', 5)[5:6] or [''])[0] :p coughs
cel
cel
17:57
Would it be SO on-topic to create a QA-thread/wiki about virtualenvs, why and how to use them? I catch myself too often suggesting to switch to virtualenvs, but not really explaining how and why.
user2555451
It sounds a little too broad...
@cel The tricky part would be to come up with a quality question that you can then answer.
One that isn't off-topic for Stack.
cel
cel
@iCodez, @MartijnPieters - yes I guess finding a good question is probably very hard.
@cel if you want to have a go at writing one, then I'd probably suggest finding answers to possibly use as a base, then drafting one on a gist or something, and I'm sure we'd be happy to review it before posting
Roight, traveling time
18:06
bon voyage rbrb
@cel how would it be different than linking to the official Python Packaging User Guide?
which will probably be updated more often and more accurately (by the maintainers of the ecosystem)
user559633
"what is the python equivalent of ruby's fantastic rubyenv" ducks
user559633
(just kidding, rubyenv is goddamn terrible and so is pyenv)
Oh, that was you coming up with a question.
DSM
DSM
18:16
Is rubyenv a thing? Or is that rbenv?
cel
cel
@JonClements Hmh, I am not convinced that this is a good idea. Probably getting too long.
But yeah, pyenv is really annoying.
cel
cel
@davidism I don't really like the packaging guide. In my opinion it's not very user friendly.
submit a pr to improve it, it's on github
cel
cel
I doubt that I could do it better. Yet, it's more confusing than helpful :)
18:18
makes sense to me, is there anything that jumps out as an example?
user559633
it's not user friendly == it means i have to read it?
cel
cel
I think fails to convince the reader that virtualenvs are very cool and you definitely should prefer them over just using sudo.
user559633
yeah, that's what i was thinking too. this documentation is too technical! more marketing!
DSM
DSM
Sometimes people get more upvotes for a comment which is wrong than others do for an answer which is right. #grumble
18:31
Hi, can anyone help me formulate my question :D ? I am not sure about the vocabulary I want to use. I want to ask about how can I fill my matplolib figure with data points, each point at every time difference I set. So at t=0 there is nothing at t = delta t there is one point, at t = 2delta t there are two points appearing from my data set etc. So that the end result would be something like a gif?
@Vitto that's been asked before.
if 'matplotlib' in sentence: vaultah.ignore(sentence) :/
DSM
DSM
if 'matplotlib' in sentence: people["Fizzy"].handle(sentence)
The alternative would be to manually create your plot images in a loop, save them to disk, and then create a gif separately from the still images (that's actually how I'd do it if you just want a gif)
Thanks. I though I should use moviepy.
18:36
The new review button color is so bad and so, so unnecessary
Is there a name for what I want?
Beyond "animation"?
"Sequential data plotting" or something like that
Fair enough :D
Thanks Ffisegydd!
Serious talk: Fizzy needs a TV show to watch. Preferably available on Netflix.
DSM
DSM
18:43
What kinds of shows does he like?
Yes, I just changed my answer to the CSV to stdout on windows question radically.
Sometimes you realise that there probably is an option for changing the line separator...
@DSM he is partial to most things. Drama. Horror. Some comedies. Crime.
I watched the first two seasons of The Killing recently, it was really intense but really good.
Would definitely fit Crime and Drama.
DSM
DSM
That's an unusual opinion.
What, my recommendation?
DSM
DSM
18:47
Yeah. The series wasn't very popular -- IIRC everyone thought the ending of Season 1 was like a punch to the face -- although I really liked Holder so I always enjoyed any scene he was in.
The first two seasons are the first crime, unless I'm totally misremembering. I had no idea what the reviews were before going in.
DSM
DSM
Nope, you're right, the first two seasons are same case. I haven't seen S>=3.
I flinch every time I tell a new programmer "once a function encounters a return statement, it stops executing" because I expect to get "well actually"'d with some facts about try-finally or something.
Really enjoying Broadchurch season 2 now.
Seen 1, had us on the tips of our seats throughout.
Don't overcomplicate things, hypothetical smarty pantses. These guys barely know there's a difference between print and return, and you're muddying things up with exception handling?!
18:49
2 is just as good.
DSM
DSM
I've only seen ep1 of S2. Seems weird to hear Tennant without an American accent.
Wait, is Broadchurch the first one, or is that Gracepoint
@DSM he's Scottish for goodness sake.
DSM
DSM
@Martijn: but I just finished watching him in Gracepoint. :-P
He went to the same highschool my wife went to briefly.
DSM
DSM
18:53
@AirThomas: BC S1; GP S1; BC S2 now.
I wonder how he would say "allonz-y" with an American accent
Americans can't pronounce the word "y".
I haven't started watching either, but I'm tempted to watch it by alternating series so the same episode is presented two ways
"allons yuh? is this a european thing?"
Like how when you go pay too much at a restaurant to eat a very small amount of the same ingredient prepared "N ways"
Which I totally do all the time, because I have tons of money and good taste and I'm cultured and shit
I ran out of groceries last week so I had the same meal four times in a row.
I think continued watching of youtube poop has turned my mind into mush
@MartijnPieters Nice to see old faces again :-)

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