« first day (1475 days earlier)      last day (3456 days later) » 

7:00 PM
oh, was the skull crusher convicted for 9 ?
he get open release after 18 years or something
 
user559633
i'm guessing that he..crushed skulls
 
@JonClements Do you know of a more recent case that supercedes this? I admit I don't follow such things all that closely, but the linked report seems to suggest that's incorrect.
 
murdered and raped woman and children
 
user559633
wow, so 18 years.
 
user559633
right. so if my life ever crosses paths with someone like the "skull crusher," i'll just murder him myself.
 
7:01 PM
@Zero I'll need to find you a link
 
user559633
i'd spend my 3 months in prison finishing up some crafts and some books i've been meaning to finish
 
user559633
"The murderers said condemning them to die in prison amounts to "inhuman or degrading treatment". They argued all sentences should be regularly reviewed." well, i'm off to my violin lesson.
 
I really hate to admit it @Zero, but I'm really more and more on Nigel's side :(
(I don't want him to have power - but I think he should have influence in the house at least)
 
I have some complicated feelings about imprisonment as a punitive measure, since I'm pretty sure free will doesn't exist.
 
I should point out that I am entirely in favour of life meaning life ... but the evidence I've posted above suggests that this another of the many widely-believed untruths about European institutions.
 
7:04 PM
the hook man?
 
Skull Cracker necessarily cracked skulls, and he couldn't have done otherwise. Sure, put him in jail to protect the rest of the population, but don't do it because you want him to suffer.
 
user559633
Why not?
 
user559633
He could have decided to...not...crack skulls.
 
anyway, I've always voted liberal... and I'm very left... but... I just don't know what I'm going to vote for in 2015
 
Not if you believe that people are completely deterministic meat computers.
 
DSM
7:06 PM
@Kevin: but if people are completely deterministic meat computers, my choice to want some skullcracker to suffer is similarly determined. So it all comes out in the wash..
 
I was just thinking that!
 
I'm expecting to vote Green. Would have gone back to Labour, but the vote in favour of More Bombs on Brown People made that vanishingly unlikely :-(
 
user559633
Then if some meat computers are just broken, then it's arguable that we could statistically do better for the population if we predict criminals/detrimental populations or peoples and keep them apart from the server farm.
 
@Zero I think the leader of the Green party is insane from what I've read
 
DSM
And the department of precrime is born!
 
7:08 PM
I really don't know anymore... I'll make my mind up nearer the time
 
user559633
Exactly. I believe that some people have situations that orient them towards crime, but ultimately if I'm to respect the value of other lives, I have to believe in agency.
 
In principle, yes, but that gets real hairy when you incorporate the necessary civil liberties of individuals.
 
@JonClements Examples?
 
It's probably not nice to pre-emptively put a person in solitary confinement forever, just because there's a 60% chance he'll become a serial killer.
 
@Zero Jenny has got herself arrested in protests?
 
7:10 PM
I don't think "having been arrested for political dissent" is a particularly strong case for insanity ...
 
user559633
Sure, but in letting people with a highly statistical chance of crime roam among the population, you're punishing the population out of an emotional pull.
 
user559633
And yes, political dissent without violent/harmful behavior isn't insanity.
 
DSM
Even political dissent with violent behaviour is probably not insanity, even if it should usually be punished.
 
Well, "I want to put the congestion charge to £50 if I had my way" is probably electoral suicide
 
user559633
Punish for the violent behavior.
 
user559633
7:11 PM
*Unless you're my employee. Being politically opposed to my decisions gets you a day writing PHP
 
lol
cabbage everyone!
 
user559633
cbg
 
She also wants to make the minimum wage £12/hr
 
These kinds of philosophical problems always reminds me of when Terry Pratchett said, "[humanity is] the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape". We have lofty ideas about free will and ethics, but they clash awkwardly with inconvenient facts of biology, like "some people are predisposed towards violent behavior"
 
DSM
Unless she's going to make hiring someone mandatory and firing someone illegal, I'm pretty sure the minimum wage will stay at ~£0 pounds, and there will be more people making it..
 
7:13 PM
@JonClements The sensible approach for any fringe party is to push the Overton Window, so setting high numbers is a good strategy - exactly how high is a matter of judgement of course.
 
when asked to justify her figures, she couldn't
nor can any party really
 
wb @Alex
/me flips through diary... 30th/31st.... what's one doing
 
Funny, I never understood the two letters after numbers (30*th*, 3*st*, Nxx..)
dunno why do people use them :S
 
DSM
[Aside: in English we write "3rd" for "third", not "3st".]
 
7:19 PM
oh, I also don't know how to write them.
 
In linguistics, ordinal numbers are words representing position or rank in a sequential order. The order may be of size, importance, chronology, and so on. In English, they are adjectives such as 'third' and 'tertiary'. They differ from cardinal numbers, which represent quantity. Ordinal numbers may be written in English with numerals and letter suffixes: 1st, 2nd or 2d, 3rd or 3d, 4th, 11th, 21st, 101st, 477th, etc. In some countries, written dates omit the suffix, although it is nevertheless pronounced. For example: 5 November 1605 (pronounced "the fifth of November ... "); November 5, 1605,...
 
sweet! :)
 
I was just about to link that page. I didn't see any explanation of the origin of the words.
 
English number words include numerals and various words derived from them, as well as a large number of words borrowed from other languages. == Cardinal numbers == Cardinal numbers refer to the size of a group. In English, these words are numerals. If a number is in the range 21 to 99, and the second digit is not zero, one typically writes the number as two words separated by a hyphen. In English, the hundreds are perfectly regular, except that the word hundred remains in its singular form regardless of the number preceding it. So too are the thousands, with the number of thousands followed by...
 
four -> fourth, makes sense. three -> third, uh ok. Two -> second, what the, you barely have any letters in common there.
 
7:20 PM
I would need that table from 0 to 999.. :P
 
I once nicknamed someone "Ordinal Rachel". If anyone can work out why, I'll be very impressed.
 
@Kevin strange you guys just removed the "u" from words and didn't disagree with the numbers, hey? :p
 
If national tongues were programming languages, english would be brainfuck. When you actually look at its grammar, it makes no sense whatsoever.
 
It's the hardest language to learn in the world I believe?
 
@JonClements We were working our way down from infinity. We got as far as "forty" and we decided to give up.
 
7:22 PM
Glad to be not the only one..
 
English is my native language
 
DSM
I was talking to a Japanese friend once and complaining about the counters (as beginners are wont to do) when it occurred to me that we actually have a fair number of different ways to count things (one/two/three; first/second/third; single/double/triple; single(singular)/duplicate/triplicate, primary/secondary/tertiary (but post-secondary); unary/binary/ternary; etc.)
 
I honestly have no idea how anyone could learn English if they haven't been totally immersed from age 0.
 
with a pocket dictionary of french/spanish I can probably wing it
 
@Kevin ROTFL
 
user559633
7:24 PM
@Kevin eh. having conversational ability is not very hard for english.
 
ahhh.... @DSM I think "treble" there is more appropriate than "triple"
 
user559633
we're not a gendered language, so there's at least some things that are easier coming from other languages
 
DSM
@Jon: you're probably right, but I can't remember the last time I heard someone speak that word..
 
I think that's what's always confused me
why is an object that gender rather than being not
anyway, I've signed up to an OU course to learn Chinese
 
chinese? I assume you mean either mandarin or cantonese @JonClements
 
7:27 PM
egy -- első
kettÅ‘ -- második
három -- harmadik
négy -- negyedik
even in hungarian we have different rules to the first three numbers
 
user559633
i'm taking the slow approach to learning german and russian.
 
errr... what's the most popular commercial language?
 
user559633
[oh, of ones that are not english in china]
 
DSM
Cantonese is really tough. I didn't make much headway at all, too many tones. ;-(
 
For fun, try to get a learner of English to pronounce the sentence "I threw the bough through the trough".
I threw the bow throu the trou?
I threw the bew thru the trew?
I threw the boff throff the troff?
 
7:28 PM
The biggest languages in the world I think are mandarin, then english, then spanish.
 
user559633
Commercial is different than spoken.
 
thankfully though, English remains the "lingua franca"
 
user559633
which is a hilarious turn of phrase
 
@AlexThornton I think Spanish comes before English
 
O.O
I agree with alex
 
user559633
7:30 PM
In numbers of native speakers, possibly.
 
@poke I think it depends how you count.
 
It's common that Spanish people speaks English too. Not the other way around..
 
in the commercial world though
 
@poke wow, you're right according to wikipedia.
 
lol
 
7:30 PM
Commercially, english is the biggest.
 
and scientific world
blah blah blah
 
user559633
I believe that it's Mandarin, then English in count of total speakers.
 
Yes, I meant native speakers.
 
largest empire on earth blah blah
 
rule britannia
 
7:32 PM
have to admit though, the Germans are giving it a bloody good go for round three :P
 
hmm?
 
@Jon ?
 
user559633
How do you mean?
 
DSM
♫ Britannia rule the waves ♫
 
economically
 
user559633
7:33 PM
Oh!
 
Ok, we agree commercially. Now what about pythonistically?
 
I still don’t get it.
 
@Lucio Holland, obviously :-)
 
:D
 
@poke Germany didn't win the first two times by might... this time you're the economic power house of the EU... blah
 
7:34 PM
@JonClements Futurologists reckon we're gonna be the biggest economy in europe by 2025.
 
I see.
 
user559633
lol futurologists
 
Is that even a thing?
 
@poke could be perceived as an ill joke - sorry
 
@poke @trist yup
 
7:35 PM
Don’t mention the war, Jon. Don’t mention the war.
 
They're actual scientists though, not just posh psychics. They analyse data and stuff.
 
oh god... I so want to mention an "Only fools and horses" quote right now :)
 
user559633
germany has to being doing alright if me (american) and my girlfriend (russia) are moving there, peacefully, by choice
 
@tristan You are? Cool! Where are you moving to?
 
user559633
youtube.com/watch?v=f9L84x15fk4&t=0m23s this is all i can think of whenever i hear of futurists/futurologists
 
user559633
7:37 PM
@poke Yeah, I totally agree. I'm really excited. Berlin
 
DSM
♫ There'll be a hot time in the town of Berlin ♫ when the Yanks go marchin' in ♫
 
user559633
hey now
 
We'll all have to agree to a meet up :)
 
user559633
I'm game
 
so whoever's in London, I'll pick you up etc... etc...
 
user559633
7:41 PM
Hah, and we'll all meet up in Holland
 
or Hampshire if the deal goes through :)
brb
 
I’m in Berlin next week.
 
zzzz
 
What do people do at meetups?
 
user559633
Unfortunately, I won't be in Berlin next week. I wish.
 
7:47 PM
Ironically, many don't meet at meetups
 
Go see landmarks? Drink? Play board games?
 
user559633
I think the Python meetup would probably require drinking.
 
Smash Brothers
 
Next time all of you are in New Jersey, you can come by and play Catan. (one of you will have to bring it though, as I don't own it)
 
user559633
Too much 'HEH we know each other from the internet'
 
7:48 PM
"Sooooooo..."
 
@AureliusPhi Works for me.
 
"Never thought to mention your eight foot long beard, eh? Seems like that would have come up before"
 
@poke Hope you'd be okay with Melee. :P Brawl is too slow for my tastes
 
"And I don't believe I've spoken to your conjoined twin before"
"no, his hands can't reach the keyboard."
Melee is the only one I'm good at.
Well, "good" is a strong word
 
I suck the least at Melee.
 
7:51 PM
test wasn't too bad actually. The only problem that was weird: for all n in the set of integers, prove n(n+2) can be written as either 3t or 3t + 2
 
I played a lot of Fox in high school, but I've lost all my mojo.
 
Melee works for me, I liked that better than Brawl anyway. I would need some training though.
 
@corvid That is weird. What is t?
 
@corvid "can be written as 3t or 3t+2" is equivalent to "has a remainder of 0 or 2 when divided by 3". Since dividing by three can only give you one of three possible divisors, and n and n+2 will definitely have different divisors, at least one of them will have a remainder of 0 or 2.
I'm assuming t means "some integer" here
 
yeah, I said 3t U 3t + 1 U 3t + 2 == the set of integers, therefore, you'd only have to disprove 3t + 1, yeah?
 
DSM
7:54 PM
@corvid: 0*2 == 0; 1*3 == 1 * 0 == 0; 2*4 == 2*1 == 2.
 
Hmm, thinking about how to express it formally
 
For any number n, you have to be able to name a value for t that makes it true.
To make it formally.
 
DSM
But it suffices to show there is such a t, you don't need to find it explicitly if you don't want to.
 
Oops, I think I missed a step back there.
case 1: n % 3 == 0. Then (n + 2) % 3 == 2, and (n*(n+2))%3 == 0. Let T = (n^2+2n)/3. Then n*(n+2) is equivalent to 3T.
case 2: n % 3 == 1. Then (n + 2) % 3 == 0, and (n*(n+2))%3 == 0. Let T = (n^2+2n)/3. Then n*(n+2) is equivalent to 3T.
case 3: n % 3 == 2. Then (n + 2) % 3 == 1, and (n*(n+2))%3 == 2. Let T = (n^2+2n-2)/3. Then n*(n+2) is equivalent to 3T+2.
 
wow - work accepted... 2.5 mins for a £120 invoice
 
8:07 PM
If I knew more about modular algebra, I'd have a "therefore T is an integer" somewhere after the "Let T =" bit
 
if only I could get that normally :(
 
@JonClements 2.5 mins of work? Wow, I might have to consider going into freelance work.
 
I charge £1440 a day
(that's in specialist fields though - so can get away with it)
 
O.O wow
 
Ah, the old "writing a line of code: $0.01. knowing which line to write: $119.99" invoice
It stands to reason that I should charge £14,400 a day for KevinScript consultation, as I'm the only KS specialist on Earth.
 
8:11 PM
Ooohh, modular algebra problem? Where where
 
Here:
19 mins ago, by corvid
test wasn't too bad actually. The only problem that was weird: for all n in the set of integers, prove n(n+2) can be written as either 3t or 3t + 2
Now I wonder if I could have done it without explicitly writing 3 cases
this is an interesting albeit hard to answer question.
 
I have tomorrow "off"
still not sure what I shall do
 
@jon start a little project of your own
 
DSM
@Kevin: very interesting, and admirable. But it looks like a library request. :-/
 
I think he should probably be writing his application so that existing screen readers can interface with it properly, rather than implementing his own sound playing methods.
It would be nice if JAWS and friends had a section for developers trying to be compliant, but I don't see anything there (yuk yuk yuk)
 
8:18 PM
@DSM Yeah, I just voted to close it.
If anyone does know of such a library, though, they should comment it on the question.
 
My intuition says "just use standard OS controls whenever possible, since screen readers can detect them the most easily" but honestly I have no experience in the field
 
DSM
That seems right; the more clever you are the harder you're making it for dedicated tools. There are probably standard patterns to follow, the accessibility equivalent of good i18n practices.
 
user559633
I have very little, but I do know that buttons should be obvious button controls and the text should be selectable wherever possible
 
user559633
Last I checked, the software was expensive and non-standard, so there's that
 
I'm googling around for standard practices. No luck yet
1
A: Python 2.7 accessibility for blind

Terry Jan ReedyThe answer appears to be 'no'. According to tcl/tk developer Kevin Walzer "Tk doesn't support [screen readers]. I've looked into it a bit and it seems like a huge project to implement on a cross-platform basis." See link for a bit more.

Welp.
 
user559633
8:24 PM
import Qt :P
 
DSM
TJR knows his stuff, so he's probably right. :-/
 
@kevin Yeah I would have done the same thing
If n is congruent to 0 modulo 3, then n+2 is congruent to 2 modulo 3. Then n(n+2) is congruent to 0 modulo 3.

If n is congruent to 1 modulo 3, then n+2 is congruent to 0 modulo 3. Then n(n+2) is congruent to 0 modulo 3.

If n is congruent to 2 modulo 3, then n+2 is congruent to 1 modulo 3. Then n(n+2) is congruent to 2 modulo 3.

If a number is congruent to k modulo m, it can be written as mt + k. Thus n(n+2) can be written either as 3t + 0 or 3t + 2.
 
I'm glad I was on the right track :-)
this guy probably needs to use os.walk, but I don't have time to write him teh codes right now. Who wants an easy accept?
 
I would but I don't know enough about using Python on teh webz to write the code
 
user559633
8:38 PM
it's abspath
 
user559633
but i don't negotiate with give me the coedz
 
user559633
oh, reread, yeah he could do path walk and membership tests
 
hey you
give me the coedz
or else{
 
DSM
@AureliusPhi: or, as I said earlier, "0*2 == 0; 1*3 == 1 * 0 == 0; 2*4 == 2*1 == 2". :-)
 
yes :P
 
8:42 PM
omg - a mate wants to go horse riding
 
DSM
@Jon: now you've got me googling "puppies riding horses". Youtube has one, of course.
 
user559633
8:58 PM
without doing a redirect, how are you guys keeping a user from re-submitting a form in flask?
 
user559633
e.g. "your data was submitted, please don't send the form again"
 
user559633
i've typically sent the user to a separate page or masked it with JS, but i was just wondering in case someone has something cleaner
 
I figured most just redirected
It's what I tend to see in practice, anyway
Or they simply kill off the cookies/tokens/form data/etc so nothing can be sent again
 
back
left a TV on downstairs and I have a house wifi speaker system setup kinda things
so was drifting off to the chime of the church bells and then suddenly gun shots and screaming
 
can someone help me with a EOF error?
 
9:11 PM
everything's turned off now... bbl
 
DSM
@Jon: rhubarb!
 
im trying to write an interpreter for brainfuck, and when I went to test it, I got "SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing"
it says theres an error on line 33, but my program is only 32 lines
 
DSM
Look for unbalanced parentheses -- ( with no corresponding ), or maybe [ with no ].
 
thanks, found it
 
I could never get the hang of brainfuck ;-;
stuff makes me go crosseyed
 
9:16 PM
im only learning it to beat my friend lol
he started and told me about it, so I had to go and learn it too
 
you ever try Whitespace?
 
whats that?
 
@AureliusPhi Don't even...
 
@AureliusPhi now look what you've done :P
 
9:17 PM
XD
@AlexThornton What's your avatar? Go? Life?
My eyes are sucking at the moment
 
@AureliusPhi It's the glider from the game of life.
It's a symbol used to identify with the hacker culture.
 
shn
Hi
I have started a new Q&A site for computer science in general (reseach-level problems for both theoretical and applied computer science). I need some interested people to help me get it started, and populate it. How is interested ?
 
hi @shn
@shn You're not going to be able to compete with the computer science stack exchange that already exists.
 
shn
Thay said the same when facebook started ;)
You're using the symbol of Eric Raymond :p
glider
 
shn
9:31 PM
anyway, someone is interested ?
 
I don't know. I don't really have time to participate in a beta.
 
shn
ok
 
@shn What's the URL of this site of yours?
 
shn
are you doing some research in cognition science ?
The website is csresearchers.com
 
@shn Careful. The layout/up-down system etc. is probably trademarked by stackexchange. I hope you've done checks.
 
shn
9:38 PM
what are you talking about ?
 
In fact yes, it's basically a copy of a stackexchange website. You're stealing their intellectual property.
 
shn
Are you kidding me ? lol
I'm using a free open source CMS
inform yourself before saying such things
 
my mistake sorry. I got a little annoyed there.
 
shn
ok
have a nice ay
day*
bye
 
still, you won't be able to compete with it unless you come up with something new out of your sleeve. Right now, it's just computerscience.stackexchange.com
bye
 
shn
9:42 PM
I'm preparing new things
not just a Q&A
see you.
 
anyone have some experience with fabfiles and heroku?
 
nope
but I don't think that's particularly surprising
 
10:01 PM
@AlexThornton - In case someone comes back looking to offer "sweat-equity", just point them to the "room rules"
Helps to prevent people from taking things personally
 
so I have this awesome idea but I will need a bunch of programmers to build it, who wants in
 
I want to know what the idea is first.
 
it's super top secret and you'll need to sign an NDA because I don't want people stealing teh idez
 
@AureliusPhi Really?
 
Well, I'm sold
 
10:05 PM
I think a fair split of future profits is 50% to me 50% to the programmers since I made it happen
 
If it's that good, I'm sold too. Though I doubt my programming skills are sufficient.
 
I can't wait to be the next Mark Zuckerbeg. Hell, I even share the same first name
It's destiny, innit?
 
Clearly, it's meant to be!
 
I don't think I've had the pleasure of your guy's company before... (I could be wrong though - wouldn't be the first time ;) )
 
So what happens now?
 
10:07 PM
You guys full-time Pythonistas?
 
@IntrepidBrit I'm just a teenage hobbyist- I'm no professional developer.
I love Python though.
 
I work in a completely unrelated field -- I just like math / programming :X
 
@AlexThornton Good man/chap/thing. I'm a "professional" coder, but Python is still a hobby/passion/love/fetish
 
In the States?
 
If I was given a specific script or tool to write I can do that, but I can never succeed in creating the architecture for frameworks or apps etc.
 
10:09 PM
@AureliusPhi How did you find your way here, amongst this band of merry reprobates..
 
I like Python XD
I learned Python mostly through my experiences with Project Euler
 
I presume we all do, hence why we loiter in this room :)
First timers?
 
my first time in this room, personally
 
Unless you're a particularly jaded PHP developer who has an axe to grind (and a really long, exhaustive list)
 
I only started talking in this room a couple days ago.
 
10:11 PM
@AureliusPhi Well, let me be the first to bid thee welcome.
We're trying to build a bit of a community around the Python part of SO
Check out the link in the top right, it starts to show you some of what we've tried (for our sins)
@AlexThornton I presume you've bumped into a few of the regulars by this point then?
 
Yeah. It's given me an insight into the life of a freelance programmer.
 
@AlexThornton It has its ups and downs :)
Today has been mostly downs for me. But that's part and parcel of being self employed
@AureliusPhi As for being based in the States - nope. I'm based in the UK and consider myself British - for what that's worth.
 
I think I'd want the atmosphere of a full office. I'd like to work somewhere like Google.
 
@AlexThornton You know, I used to think that too. But there's something gratifying about working on things where you know that it's down to you. And you know that you are actually making a difference.
I'm not sure I could go back to working for someone like Google, "just to help them get richer"
 
@IntrepidBrit I don't care about money.
But anyway, I've got to go to bed- teenage life. :/ rhubarb.
 
10:19 PM
@AlexThornton Rhubarb @AlexThornton!
@AureliusPhi (Sometimes folks in this room will appear a bit cliquey and using random vegetables as words. It's just a bit of fun and you can find the key to our weird sayings hither - sopython.com/salad)
 

« first day (1475 days earlier)      last day (3456 days later) »