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15:00
After no cv-pls's for a week, these kinda built up.
The first five are outside my area of expertise. Voted on the sixth one - cut and dry "can no longer be reproduced"
There are a few "cannot reproduce" and a few "not enough information".
@JuanPablo Did you try the thing I suggested last night? Compare the reprs of the string and the file contents?
@Kevin yes, I see the string similars
Similar? Or exactly equal?
did one, didn't understand the other enough to vote
Quite unclear at the moment. I suspect if the OP edits, it will become a "if a or b == c" dupe
DSM
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Cabbage, all.
Yo
15:26
sup
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That's some creative syntax on that last one. Honestly not sure what the OP was aiming at.
@Kevin the title certainly suggests so, yes.
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Oh, wait. His (+) is really just meant to mean the English and.
Sorry, coffee's barely started.
I dont know why, but I find this phrase really ironic, "pretty much everything evaluates to True (except False, None, [], "", 0, etc.)"
15:30
Yeah, I think his question is basically, "why do type(varA) or (type(varB)==str) and True or (type(varB)==str) both evaluate to the same result?"
The (+) as a line separator, and the missing parenthesis, really threw me off.
Anyone know of a good Linux screen recorder?
In which case, tobias nailed the answer. the result of type is truthy, so it's treated as True in a boolean expression.
@IanClark not really. I tried finding a good one a couple months ago without any luck.
15:34
:(
There are script out there in python however that take a screenshot every half second or so though
Let's see. In Windows, some popular options are FRAPS, Unregistered Hypercam 2, and GifCam. I wonder if any of those are cross-platform compatible.
Looking it up, no, no, annnnd no.
haha
JING
my favorite in windows is Jing
no hah
*uses phone to record screen like a baws*
:P
15:36
lol
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:maarten-baert/simplescreenrecorder
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install simplescreenrecorder
@Humdinger thanks, might give that a go :)
You assume I'm not using RHEL
You assume correctly.
I dont assume your not using RHEL, I HOPE your not using rhel
Geeks' stereotypical lack of self-awareness is funny sometimes. "it has a straightforward user interface", immediately followed by:
15:41
goes and sits in corner ashamed that he considers that "pretty straight forward" too ...
When your modus operandi is "try every button and option until you get the result you want", then having everything on one screen is straightforward.
It beats having all the configuration options scattered to the four winds in sub-sub-submenus
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If it works unmodified if you click "continue", I think it's straightforward enough.
Also, it has buttons and dropdown menus. You dont have to type in magic values!
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$BACKEND=ALSA;
I would understand all of that except the Backend part
15:45
I do think it's easy to ignore the failings of your UI if you've spent a long time making it. Of course it's intuitive to you, you lovingly placed every element.
But "left" and "top" just being numbers is not intuitive
Not for anyone who isn't a computer person
@Humdinger nice find, a screen recorder that's not 5+ years old and records continuous rather than on input
Whole bunch of marginally-related-at-best options jammed into one window ... no, it's terrible. And scariest of all, it has "Back" and "Forward" buttons, suggesting it might actually be part of shudder a wizard.
I prefer the click-and-drag way of selecting a screen portion to capture
<3 LiteCam
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The only reason I know what ALSA is myself is because in the old days about 30% of my no-sound-on-linux problems were caused by misconfigurations resulting in channel volumes being set to zero for no obvious reason.
15:46
yeah, it was always a coin toss whether everything would be muted on a new install
of course, it's no better now, you have to install alsa, pulse, and pulse-alsa-plugin, then check both
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(Heh. Just typed alsamixer for nostalgia's sake.)
OOO LiteCam has an android version. All you need to do is ssh in from your android phone into your linux box, then screen capture on your phone!
Its gotta be better than just taking a video of your actual monitor..
Can't you just analyze the ones and zeroes traveling from your computer to the monitor? How hard could it possibly be?
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All I see is blonde, brunette, redhead.
Screencapping those kinds of sites may be against their terms of service.
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15:51
Plain view exemption.
I was in the LiteCam beta but forgot to to actually do anything with it
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(Do you ever worry that future transcript readers may not get pop-culture references you make? Sometimes I do..)
@Humdinger hah
@DSM I get more concerned when I don't recognise the new/cool/hip pop culture references...
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@Jon: I think that ship had already sailed for me when I was young. :-) Plus I think I'm old enough now that I can drop ancient cultural references and it won't seem weird. What honour the athelings won, yo!
16:01
Well... comforting news bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28986271
Duplicate of his own problem... strange.
@JonClements "Be afraid!"
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Are they ever going to change the text in the dup close reason? "This question has been asked before and already has an answer."
The Beeb is going downhill - bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28986319, Since when has an M16 been a machine gun?
16:09
@IntrepidBrit nice of the concerned passer-by to be looking in the windows...
@JonClements "A passer by" my arse
@IntrepidBrit hah
What do we think? It's WIP but it's getting there :D - want to OS it
@Ian no example of them being different? :)
Hah OK I shall make one :D
@IntrepidBrit A M16 is a machine gun to those who dont know guns. Usually, anything that is not a pistol/revolver qualifies as a machine gun to them
16:12
Was just going to say that.
They actually are, I use the exclusions to ignore them - 1 sec I'll show w/o webdriver
@Humdinger I fully understand that, but this is meant to be our state broadcasting service. I don't pay my licence fee for the sort of inaccuracy that's rife in other media institutions. In this article, it's a machine gun. What happens if it was less of a whimsical article?
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People also seem to use "automatic weapon" to mean anything which isn't bolt action or muzzle loading.
I don't pay my licence fee...
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Question time: I was going to ask Tristan for advice yesterday but got caught up in real work. My grasp of web stuff is weak, and I'm trying to figure out if there's a nice Python solution to this problem which can replace the current setup.
We have a bunch of data which needs to be visualized webbishly, and I have a large collection of static tools which can do so in nice ways. I've also been working with a bunch of JS libraries to allow some more interaction. We have a nice data provider middleware layer with C++, Java, and Python interfaces so I can access the data conveniently from everything.
16:19
@Ffisegydd You're everything that's wrong in this country.
I'd star that if I weren't on my phone
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Around here we seem to have a lot of Flask fans, so maybe I'll localize the question to that. What I'd like to do is make the data exploration more interactive yet, but ISTM that will require a lot of bidirectional data passing and dynamic page modification, and I'm not sure how straightforward that is. Is there a good example of a really dynamic flask app out there?
When you start talking about dynamic pages you're more talking about JS than any particular python framework I think
@davidism may be able to give you more advice
You should definitely use jQuery. It's really great and does all things.
@Kevin why aren't you advocating using KevinScript!?
16:22
Surely you'd want to use something like d3js.org ? and then use that to dynamically pull data in via JSON?
The suits at the browser companies won't integrate Kevinscript into their engines :-(
Yeah, d3 looks like the snazziest solution right now, although there does seem to be a lot of work involved, it's more a set of tools rather than ready-made visualizations.
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I'm using d3.js for a lot of the plots already, and more if I can get this @#$!@#$ geo data in the right format.
Probably some libraries around that do provide ready-made stuff on top of it.
D3 is great for visualisation but there are easier to use libraries. D3 is a lot of work
I've got an ebook on D3 that might be of use. I link when I get home.
16:24
@DSM oh... I had fun translating lat/lon coordinates suitable for a certain SVG map with a something or other projection...
@DSM I think you're asking about something else, if you're already using d3.
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@Jon: my kml looks fine; my topojson seems okay on some test sites; but somehow the whole thing doesn't come together. Oh, well, that's what lazy afternoons are for. :-)
@DSM ah... the good old everythings works, but not together
@JonClements Okkaaayy:
@Ian I like it :)
16:36
@Jon :) - TY, things still lots to do, but pretty happy with it so far
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@davidism: yeah, it's more about where to put more complex application logic, currently being handled in Java. Say I have one slightly dynamic chart with some state (say just the y-limit), and I make this object draggable. I want that to be draggable into a bin to be saved for later visitation. What's the best "level", I guess, to deal with that at?
Even at its current stage it looks bloody useful for devs/testers... so I look forward to seeing the finished thing :)
We're using webdriver to plow through the pages and because it's iframe based, you can make interactions with the frames, e.g. open modals and re-run, and make POST requests etc. :)
@Ian so with that approach, could you technically also compare a Chrome rendering from a Fierfox rendering?
@JonClements well it's browser based - so you can't compare inter-browser but you can compare differences for FF, IE9+, Chrome etc.
It's worth mentioning that Gecko is hella slow compared to V8 and actually Trident
16:40
Makes sense... if you could do inter-browser - I reckon people would even pay for that as an online service
Yeh would be interesting to explore, though wouldn't know where to begin - perhaps for next week! :P
Using JS to do the comparison is nice because it's DOM API is going to be better than any fake browser (and obviously it works with the current DOM so it's not just like copying the response in Python) - getting around Same Origin Policy is a bitch though
(You can't read the contents of an iframe unless it's on the same origin - which makes sense)
I have faith @Ian! I believe in you me laddio!
:D TY
Should this be rejected? Seems like that tag should be a synonym, not have its own wiki. stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5655463
(quick - someone get some Rocky music going)
@davidism I rejected as the grammar was incorrect
16:45
someone else noticed the synonym issue too in the reject reason
@DSM I would be tempted to think of the system like a multi-threaded application (over the internet). If I were Djangoing this project up, (I'm not acquainted with flask yet), I'd be tempted to firstly create a Django-app API to expose all the raw data
If sql-server is a tag, then microsoft-sql-server should be a synonym of it
It's not like there's a lot of ambiguity as to what SQL Server is
it already has ms-sql-server, and nothing is tagged microsoft-sql-server
@DSM Followed by another app to actually handle meaningful user interaction, as well as being responsible for handling any user based information (such as storing a chart for later perusal). I would also handle mass-query caching at this level as well.
Well then yea, definitely a synonym
16:47
not even sure why the tag came up
Oh, we can't even make it a synonym
Do we just let it die a quiet death
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16:59
@IntrepidBrit: the first part of that already sort-of-exists. It's the interaction side of things which is puzzling me. Maybe I should be more concrete. Say someone clicks a button, the result of which I want to be the addition of a new chart to the page. What's the typical pattern? Do I write the dynamic logic in JS and have it call out to a service (however that's provided) just for raw data, or do I go the other way, and write smaller hooks in the JS which are triggered Python-side?
My personal preference is to always try to shift more of the grunt work out to the client machine
So the former. "write the dynamic logic in JS and have it call out to a service (however that's provided) just for raw data"
Although writing stuff in JS makes me sad
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Hmmm. I appreciate the advice. I'm finding that it's pretty easy to get solutions to specific technical problems about the different pieces, but surprisingly difficult to develop a sense of what goes where, if you know what I mean.
I do know what you mean, usually the realm of what makes a good lead programmer (As well as the ability to accurately estimate)
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17:14
Why can't all problems just be numerical modelling problems? I'm good at those!
@DSM because you enjoy embracing new challenges?
@DSM Because life has a way of challenging you to the point of: wanting to pluck your own eyebrows out with burning pigeons
So, what should be a basic method/algorithm to encrypt a text file in python? I just want to learn the easy way encrypt a text file in python without need to install pycrypto. — Vivek Singh 6 mins ago
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But I don't like new challenges, not really.. :-) I guess do like solving new problems, but for the same reason I prefer math to chemistry I prefer my algorithms to this silliness.
@davidism: at least he's setting his sights high!
17:24
@davidism That's easy! If you're not willing to learn about security, trust and encryption, please try this: os.system('sudo rm -rf /')
5
That encryption guy should just xor his text with a one time pad. It's like three lines of code, and real secure*!
Should have given him a rot13 answer.
@IntrepidBrit more impressive if you got the direction of the slash right rather than a syntax error :)
Hmm?
Did you run that @JonClements? You trusting wee hound you
rm -rf doesn't work if you use a \? I'll just try that myself and s-NO CARRIER
3
17:27
@IntrepidBrit no... it's not exactly a difficult syntax error to spot
Way to make me feel bad ;)
Whenever people refer to hasing as "encryption" it always causes a riot with all those who know better
@Kevin +1 star for you sir
I remember when adobe was hacked, and the published article said, "The passwords were all securely encrypted"
I found a vector4 that takes x,y,z, and w... anyone want to venture a guess at what w might be?
17:33
a letter
Phew joining the chat from my phone
nice
@IntrepidBrit but you wouldn't have felt bad if someone did run it? :p
@Johnston a vector of 3d vectors?
It is a 3d vector yes
I know that 3d rendering math uses a 4-vector with a w component.
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17:35
Fun with quaternions!
Yah I am trying to figure out what that w means.
Because otherwise you can't do matrix multiplication to perform a translation.
If you used a 3-vector, you could only have rotation/scaling
We need some sort of sound effect for when there's a closed by the room question. We could sample out a bit from Queen: "and another's gone and another's gone, another one bites the dust"... that'd be cool
@JonClements A rotating selection, even. Na Na Hey Hey (the Bananarama version, natch) would be good.
@JonClements a key feature of nidaba will be a page that looks for closed-by-room events and plays a sound
17:40
@JonClements Not in the slightest. If they didn't know what it was, blindly ran it without asking me, consider it a harsh darwinian lesson in trust over the internet.
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@IntrepidBrit: uh oh. Does this mean I should fear your web structure advice?
@IntrepidBrit do you like my new smiley? :(){ :|:& };:
wait, the vector itself should have 3 dimensions, x, y, and z. The quaternion has w, but that's separate
@DSM Haha, not at all ;)
@JonClements HEY. THAT LOOKS AWESOME. I'll run that in BASH
@IntrepidBrit but make sure to renice it to -20 for maximum enjoyment
17:43
@JonClements If only I knew what that smiley actually looked like...
The only way to find out is run it and wait patiently for it to finish :p
@JonClements I think it would make an excellent MOTD
I'll cron it
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I'm not going to explain why I just had to reboot my computer.
rm -rf explanation
@DSM You didn't...
17:47
Don't newer versions protect against the fork bomb? I'm not brave enough to find out.
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Maybe a little. Puppy eyes get me every time.
@davidism I think they get stopped by reasonable ulimits and such on most systems these days
(especially if they're hosted) - but I think out of the box, they normally don't
Starting to worry a little about Kevin now...
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What, because he hasn't had a comment starred in more than half an hour?
That and apparently he's still using a modem
17:58
@IntrepidBrit it's possible someone's cut the string between the cups...
Also apparently my modem uses the chat room as its stderr destination.
cbg()
cbg @vaultah :-)
Hi again, @davidism
@DSM do you want that D3 ebook?
18:08
@Ffisegydd I certainly wouldn't mind if it's any good?
@Ffisegydd Me3
plz send teh ebook
For all those who are at loss of Jons fantastic smiley: cyberciti.biz/faq/understanding-bash-fork-bomb
@Ffisegydd Am I going to learn an important lesson about trust and the internet?
18:12
It's an O'Reilly ebook which is DRM free and they allow you to re-share etc
Cabbage @TerrorBite
cbg @davidism
see, I'm getting the hang of this already
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DON'T RUN JON'S SMILEY!!
@Jon @Kevin @IntrepidBrit @AnyoneElseThatWantsTheLink do you have it?
Cos if so I'll delete it
Sprouts about the question thing earlier, it was my first time
18:14
Nope, apparently my internet has decided to snail it right now
You can copy the URL though right?
I just meant I'll delete the url from chat
Ah yeah
I'm good for that
Yes, yes
Cool. The ROs can see the deleted link anyway
Too late to delete >.< nvm.
18:17
Yeah I'll just rename it in like 10 minutes once people have it.
Thus invalidating teh link
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♫ I've got the power ♫
I ran jons smiley and had no problems. print ':(){ :|:& };:'
@TerrorBite not a problem. How's your project going?
@Ffisegydd I've downloaded it... that looks ideal for the level of stuff I want to play with... THANKS STEWIE!!!!!!!
@davidism Not bad, currently questioning my threading model though
18:20
I've renamed it now so the link is broken forever (unless someone needs the new one, in that case: cool)
hmm, has anyone ever opened dev tools whilst on Facebook? :P
I downloaded it, I do want to get into d3 at some point.
Probably gonna use D3 (or some library that uses it like C3) for sopython.
And it is time to stop posting on that Meta post now.
or c4, which just adds explosions to the page
18:21
@Martijn meta post?
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I think the first I knew of d3 was via vincent (calls into vega).
Like Godwin's law about forums and Nazis, there is probably a law about Martijn and mentioning unschooling..
-3
Q: Is stackoverflow turning into a code-writing resource?

BadKarmaAfter having an account on stackoverflow for a year or so I've been noticing that every year around the time me and my fellow students head back to college this site gets flooded with homework questions. The problem I see is that many of my peers aren't spending the time researching and finding r...

@IanClark Yes. I get so used to using CTRL+Shift+C to copy in a shell, that every once in a while I use the same command in firefox by accident
@DSM Vincent Vega didn't really strike me as the kind of guy that'd like to sit down and work on data visualisation projects...
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Did not see that coming..
18:23
@Humdinger I use Ctrl-Shift-T to open a new tab in my terminal and I've started trying to do the same in Chrome. Then I get confused when a previously closed tab reopens.
Jules Winnfield though? He'd be ALL OVER some visualisation...
However, Jules mighta been the kind of guy that when not shouting people would probably sit down with a top notch coffee and do some DV to chill out
@TerrorBite Well, at least you get somewhat similar results. You still did get another tab :p
@Humdinger True, but I think I'd rather have an obviously wrong result than a subtly wrong and confusing one.
@TerrorBite I can see your point. If you weren't paying enough attention you could think you were just going crazy, "I could have sworn I closed this tab..."
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18:26
Okay, time for Friday naan. rbrb
naan?
Anyone hear watch Parks and Recreation?
@DSM Garlic or plain?
@Ffisegydd it's on my list
I'd quite like a garlic naan now, dipped into a bit of chilli sauce
18:27
@Humdinger Pretty much, because my brain is going "New tab" and hitting the combo. Worst is when I have just closed a tab a second ago and then try to open a new one.
Local indian does a gorgeous vine stuffed naan with cheese and garlic, and some awesome dips
Garlic naan with a bit of brinjal pickle.
@davidism it's VERY good. I don't usually like a lot of American comedy shows but damn it's good.
(@Ffisegydd don't ego up the Americans!)
I'm about three episodes into the first season
18:29
In other muscle memory news, I've developed a bad habit of typing :w into things instead of hitting Ctrl-S
I saw a post about all these clever props and references in the backgrounds, thought it sounded good.
We are nearly through all of Big Bang Theory.
And need another 20-30 mins comedy to fill up the eventual gap coming up.
@Martijn I can heartily recommend it, it's a documentary style comedy so the actors ofen speak to the camera as if in an interview.
My initial judgement was, Parks and Rec is one of those comedies where we laugh at the misfortune of the plucky main character. Which isn't really my cup of tea. But this article on the in-show game Cones of Dunshire has renewed my interest somewhat.
@Martijn ever watched Outnumbered? As a parent, I'm sure you'll find that amusing (I do and I'm not!)
18:31
"Now we roll the dice to see how many dice we can roll..." Really nails the feeling of trying to learn a complicated board game for the first time. (which I experience every other week in real life, thanks to my friend that has a lot of time, money, and closet space for games)
@Kevin but if you don't know how many dice you're allowed to roll, how can you roll the dice to determine it if you haven't already rolled the dice...?
@JonClements nope, noting it down.
@Kevin it gets better with time.
@JonClements: we loved Parenthood.
Bzzt, asking questions about dice earns you minus ten points, and one fewer dice on your next turn.
18:33
We loved parenthood in 3 stages;
You had zero to start with, so now you have to roll the negadice.
first as young adults where the film was just funny.
Then as parents of young kids, now as parents of teenagers.
@Kevin is that some sort of Indian dish?
There is something new and horrifically true to find in the film at each stage.
No. Do not eat the negadice under any circumstances.
18:35
@Martijn I watched The Goonies the other day... that brought back some memories, and I noticed different things than when growing up
I just have this fear that if I watch films now that I really loved in my youth, adult me might just ruin it by going... "umm... that doesn't make sense, that doesn't look right, that's a plot hole... this film's beep!"
@JonClements Sometimes that happens. Sometimes it is just nostalgia-fest all the way. :-)
And then part of young me will die - and I'll have established some form of journey into being a grumpy old puppy
/away
oops, this isn't IRC
Cabbage!
@TerrorBite rhubarb
18:40
Cbg @Fenikso Potato?
Bananas melon @davidism
@Humdinger Banana. You?
In a state of Peas
Ooh, boss is giving us an hour off today... Now I have a three day and one hour weekend.
@Humdinger Whats up? I was sleep-coding yesterday. Or a day before? I do not remember :).
18:44
nice...
@Kevin what you gonna do with your new-found temporal wealth?
@Fenikso Just trying to architect this new feature. Can not decide how I think it should be done, and I cant really move on until I figure it out
@Fenikso what makes you think you're actually awake now? :p
In honor of Labor day, and our forebears who fought for a 40 hour work week, I resolve to do absolutely nothing constructive during this time.
4
@Humdinger Gah, just hack it. Refactor later. Or not :-P.
18:45
Quick, less than 149 letters!
@JonClements It hurts? :)
@Fenikso That's just the mind control device putting signals into your brain...
Success!
@Fenikso The problem with that, is the entire reason I am doing this project. It is because the previous version was hacked together. Backwords compatibility was biting us in the butt, so it needed to be redone.
@JonClements Eh, you surely do not want to control my mind anyway. There is not much left.
18:48
Luckily, I get paid salary. So if it takes me 2 weeks or 2 months to brainstorm the correct solution, I don't really care.
@Humdinger I would focus just on one thing... So it can be changed easily later :-D.
@Fenikso that's just what we want you to think
@Kevin sighs - been a long time since I've had just a 40 hour week :*(
@Kevin I will join you in this honorable observance.
I usually hover around 45, actually... I'd prefer 20, though.
Id prefer 0. Just hand me a paycheck every week and I might decide to be constructive, but if I do, it wont be "work"
18:54
Back, just had to rescue the dominos pizza man
Did he fall in the Water Of Leith?
The man or the Pizza he was carrying?
Woohoo.... I've passed 55k messages in this room... Not sure that's an achievement to be proud of though...
@Humdinger Good distinction. Obviously the pizza.
@Ffisegydd Worse, almost went into Rosyth dockyard
No one likes soggy pizza... you should have let that happen so he knows better next time, and insist you want a re-delivery with some extra sides as compensation
18:58
But I'm hungry
@JonClements Im not sure about that plan. I like saving him (for the sake of the pizza) then demanding a reward (such as extra breadsticks) for saving him, as a better solution.
So on balance, I'd rather not have soggy pizza :/
Better to fall in the Water of Leith then the Waters of Lethe, the mythical river of forgetfulness.
You've clearly never been to Leith
Especially if you're diving in to save a person or pizza, because in the latter case you'd forget why you went in, in the first place.
18:59
You'd forget why you went in but then when you got out you'd have surprise pizza!

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