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7:01 PM
Alright shall we begin?
I have Taco Bell waiting for me
 
incoming programmer butts
 
Alright so the the first thing on the list is Room Challenges
should we continue them?
 
Not yet, wait a few minutes
See that everyone's here
Give me bacon
 
People need to show up on time
 
I am the intern, ignore me
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Sir we await your arrival
/cc @rlemon
 
@Loktar mind clearing stars?
 
@KendallFrey no, don't
STOP CLEARING STARS
or not
 
buahahaha
 
shit..
 
7:04 PM
why do we want old ones
 
^?
 
Quick, make a wish!
 
They provide a good transcript of important points from previous meetings
 
@KendallFrey Why do we care?
 
Well, now you just made it worse, lol
 
7:05 PM
@SomeKittens if we're relying on stars to do that, we're doing it wrong
 
I was just reading them to refresh my mind from Jan
 
@KendallFrey Possibly JAndy
 
I'm here, sorry.
 
@SecondRikudo so I don't get mixed up with new and old things
 
7:05 PM
@KendallFrey The date is rather obvious
 
First topic: Removal of stars before room owner meeting or not
4
 
And you can sort by date in the star list
 
haha
 
requires reading
i hate reading
 
@copy Aye
 
7:06 PM
Shame, history is good.
 
Keep stars for a transcript of important events.
 
remove them after they're done being used
for voting or w/e
 
@KendallFrey Meh
 
Oh oh, I forgot to mention something I want discussed
 
@KendallFrey Not a good idea
 
7:07 PM
I think that's all the people we're going to get in the near future
 
Do we have per-user-class welcome messages yet @Zirak ?
 
I say just keep them in there
new stars will always shift old stars.
 
^
 
Yeah - that sounds good to me.
 
Commented on the topic list, pretend it was there all along (@Loktar)
@BenjaminGruenbaum uuuhhh, no
 
7:08 PM
already updated
 
@Zirak ok, let's do that :D
 
Alright, I think that's all the people we'll have for now
@Loktar ready to get started?
 
Yeah, I think so too.
 
But I'm lazy
 
Alright so the the first thing on the list is Room Challenges
should we continue them?
 
7:09 PM
let's pick a topic and stick to it now
meh
 
@Loktar pin topics
 
@Loktar (Please pin the current topic)
 
Should we continue room challenges?
2
 
The room challenges were nice - but people ended up not participating so I say no.
2
 
Yes, they were fun to read.
 
7:10 PM
Second Benji's notion.
 
@Loktar They're a nice idea but I could never find the time.
 
@Loktar T'was a bust. Theoretically fun, but the participation meter was close to zero from the negative side, so no.
 
I agree @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
I'm not going to organize them any more - if you'd like to do that go ahead.
 
Instead of having challenges have a shared Ideas page gist / git
where people can create small challenges
and learn new tech
that will serve good in a longer run
 
7:10 PM
that could be cool
an idea dump
 
I think many of us just do our own thing regardless
 
and since its not a challenge everyone can learn at own pace.
 
It sounds like a goo idea... in theory :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, but it's very cheap to maintain
 
Maybe accumulating the challenges over time could be nice, but I don't actually see people doing them
 
7:11 PM
I think having a weekly reading thread could be nice - a gist where people dump cool videos and/or blog posts from the week. That might work better than the challenges.
2
Nice lectures, cool coding exercises and so on.
 
Ah yeah that would be cool
heck even something that shows the top starred/pinned cool things from the week
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That might be better
 
That way - you're not obligated to do anything but anyone can suggest ways to improve - every week we start from scratch.
 
it'd be like the resources bookmark, but moreso
 
@AwalGarg made me realise I'm sad we don't have a list of awesome sites/books/people
 
7:12 PM
@Loktar pins/stars aren't all "professional"
 
@Zirak We can easily make a repo
And have regulars PR to it.
 
yeah true there would be a lot of garbage to weed out
making it not worth the time to do so
 
PRs are work
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well thats a much better version o my idea
 
a wiki would be easier
 
7:12 PM
Actually, I think we're talking about different projects for the room for quite a while now
 
Why is everyone liking my idea but no one is starring it?
 
So I propose starting a group for the JS room, and moving all room related projects there
 
GIVE ME INTERNET FAME BITCHES
 
Wiki can go outerageous
 
@Zirak Damn right son.
 
7:13 PM
 
The reason I like a gist over a wiki or a site is because it's temporary - it gets swapped once a week so you're never behind or have a huge list.
 
@Zirak Right, do all the regulars have commit access there?
 
@SecondRikudo I pioneered that idea 2ish years ago
 
git handles, please :D
 
7:13 PM
@SecondRikudo They should, if someone doesn't give a shout
 
@Zirak The "People" section lists only Lemon and Ryan
 
*shout*
 
So I say we take https://github.com/JavaScriptRoom/, get commit access going to all of our regulars, and do this sort of weekly thing there
 
Alright so no more organized room challenges, instead a list of resources that are refreshed weekly.
2
 
That way people from the outside can propose articles/blog posts (however unlikely), and regulars can easily add stuff.
 
7:15 PM
I just invited @SecondRikudo, what was your handle @KendallFrey?
 
kendfrey
 
Why refreshed weekly?
 
@Loktar sounds good to me.
 
Give AwalGarg access to that ?
 
@SomeKittens so you're never "behind".
 
7:15 PM
Sounds like it'd be better to categorize stuff.
 
Who decides what gets pulled btw ?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Can create new directory for each week
 
like, I want to see all the Angular stuff that's been added
 
@SomeKittens you can always go back and read stuff - but once something is too much commitment it won't be done.
 
Or replace the document each week and tag it
 
7:16 PM
Cause if everything is accepted it will go hay-wire very easily
 
@SomeKittens search for Angular?
 
Git's pretty good at this stuff..
 
@Loktar And one where the greatest things stay (not necessarily specific pages, just good sites)
 
I like a gist a lot better than a repo but if you guys care that much then ok.
 
@Zirak why not HN then ?
HN does exactly that
 
7:16 PM
We don't run HN
 
@darkyen00 no, not well
 
@darkyen00 Not everyone have HN account
 
because this would be more specific to our tastes
 
And we have no control there.
 
HN is general and it's shitty
 
7:16 PM
Have our own ?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hm. Some sort of tagging?
 
Yes, specific to our tastes.
 
Have our own, similar thing
 
@Zirak and biased towards SF and startups
 
Just a few JS things every week - digestable.
 
7:17 PM
ok, let's not discuss implementation here, shall we?
(or should we?)
 
Nothing big, nothing that requires commitment - a gist every week with comments :D
 
we should
 
Want to move onto the next topic?
 
Sure
 
7:17 PM
Here is what I have for the resolution of the first
> No more organized room challenges, instead a list of resources that are refreshed weekly hosted at github.com/JavaScriptRoom
2
What is our policy on job postings in the chat?
4
 
I am a banana
 
he said sure @Zirak
 
@Loktar I don't see why not. With taste of course.
 
@Loktar I think if someone is a programmer and asks here then it's fine.
 
Yeah I mean right now they havent gotten out of hand
 
7:19 PM
@Loktar free to do it as long as no spam happens?
 
Cool, pin for 2 or 3 days then unpin and let it disappear
 
If it's a regular they can pin it. If it's just some programmer can pin/star for a few hours and that's it.
2
 
7:19 PM
And hiring people ?
 
@Loktar Depends. I don't want it to become a frequent thing
 
sounds good to me
@Zirak yeah same here, luckily it hasn't been an issue at all yet though
but definitely don't want recruiters coming in posting jobs
 
We'll discuss it if it becomes spammy
 
@Zirak yes, I agree - but if it becomes an issue we'll deal with it then.
 
So for now owner's discretion, we'll wait until/if ever it becomes a problem?
 
7:20 PM
sure
 
@Zirak yes.
 
I know loktar is just waiting for #4
 
don't be this guy:
in PHP, Feb 17 at 5:56, by Smart Killer
i need a wordpress developer who have good knowledge in wordpress
 
@KendallFrey Exactly
 
@SomeKittens Golden
 
7:21 PM
> If it's a regular they can pin it. If it's just some programmer can pin/star for a few hours and that's it. If it gets spammy, too out of hand we can readdress.
3
^ sound good as a resolution for #2
 
@SomeKittens That's not a job posting
 
@SomeKittens now I wanna troll him :D
 
@Loktar why are you in such a hurry.
 
@KendallFrey read on
 
fuck effort
 
7:21 PM
@darkyen00 he's not in a hurry - we reached consensus.
 
Did the php room not smoke him ?
 
@darkyen00 not necessarily in a huge hurry
just want to make sure it stays on topic
#3 Adding and removing room owners
 
Jhawins
 
@KendallFrey I kind of agree...
 
Adding him? I vehemently oppose
 
7:22 PM
me ? -- i be a pirate.
 
but it seems soon idk
 
We said we'd discuss him last time
 
Specifically, I said I'd nominate him
 
wait, darkyen isn't a room owner?
 
Well, if he wants to be a room owner he can show up to the meeting.
2
 
7:22 PM
I now nominate him
 
He has gotten better and has been chill most of the time
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum he got crazy flags
 
@Loktar Disagree
 
can haz pin plz? ^
 
7:23 PM
@Zirak Why?
 
@KendallFrey I'd rather not open that can of worms behind his back
 
thats fair
 
If I'm for adding anyone it's Luggage and Roel - those people are always well mannered, have a high level of JS and are nice.
 
You say wait until he's here?
 
Never had issues with them.
 
7:24 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Let's finish with the topic at hand first
 
yeah Luggage is great, I haven't had much interaction with Roel
 
I'll just say that I've had unhealthy discussions with him, and it seems like the attitude we (read: some owners of the past) disliked is still there
 
Roel I agree, Luggage I haven't seen.
 
That said - neither have had enough messages in the room yet - and I think it has been a while since the room was without owners.
 
What's our (even temporary) verdict on Jhawins?
 
7:24 PM
Roel is a C# room owner, he's smart and helpful
 
@KendallFrey Yes
 
@SecondRikudo status quo
keep him as is
 
what's roel full username? I don't think I've ever even met him
 
@SecondRikudo to discuss his issue if/when he shows up.
 
7:24 PM
@towc Roel van Uden
 
\o
 
oh, him! Definitely vote pro
 
lol
 
I tend to support both
Alright, @Loktar make the vote
 
Me too, but I don't think we really need more room owners yet.
5
 
7:25 PM
Luggage as owner
5
 
((@Loktar make a message saying "all those in favour of X, star this" and "all those not in favour of X, star this"?))
 
Roel as an Owner
10
 
jk
 
I just pinned both, star them
 
@Loktar it's not a vote if you can't vote against
 
7:26 PM
ahahahaha
 
haha alright alright
 
@Loktar you need to add "against" pins too.
 
Ben is right: do we need anyone who's not rlemon? Maybe another 2 as backups and from different timezones, but that should be it
 
@Loktar Add a negative vote message pls :P
 
Who is Roel?
 
7:26 PM
Luggage not as an owner star this
9
Roel not as an owner star this
4
 
Is SomeGuy an owner ?
 
While we're on room owners, I haven't seen Cerberus and Jan Dvorak in ages. Are they still active? Should they be demoted?
 
Ill do it better next vote :P
man I don't even get a vote.
 
Jan Dvorak is active, isn't he?
 
@darkyen00 yes.
 
7:27 PM
@Zirak I think Jan is active.
 
@Zirak when did they last participate?
 
Haven't seen Cerberus though.
 
Jan's in a different time zone from most of us
 
@SomeKittens Roel van Uden
 
whoa whoa whoa, one at a time here
 
7:28 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cerberus popped in for a few messages yesterday, dunno when was the time before that. Jan I haven't seen all week.
 
@Zirak we agreed in a former meeting that inactivity for one month unless explained is reason for un-ro'ing.
 
ok has everyone voted for Roel/Luggage?
If so looks like both will be promoted
 
Jan seems active.
 
confetti
 
@Loktar Luggage is tied from what I can see.
 
7:29 PM
Loktar does the tiebreak
 
4 : 0 @Loktar
 
ah now he is.. I vote for him
 
(I voted for for both, like I said I would if someone nominated them).
@Loktar great
 
alright going to unpin those two
 
Wait, against Luggage got starred again
 
7:29 PM
oh wow ok so 8-7
 
6/8 for/against
 
wat
 
Didn't the against comments have one star less anyway because they weren't pinned?
 
well there is me which you can't see unfortunately
ah shit, maybe I screwed it up with pinning
 
It doesn't really matter.
 
7:30 PM
\o @FlorianMargaine
 
do we have a room owner from the indian timezone?
 
\o @FlorianMargaine
 
anyway its pretty far between now looks like Roel will be Luggage wont be
 
@towc SomeGuy
 
@towc SomeGuy
 
7:30 PM
right
 
@towc @SomeGuy
 
and he is more than enough.
 
yeah
 
@towc SomeGuy
 
Luggage has more votes against, and Roel has a lot more votes in favor.
 
7:31 PM
@Loktar right, let's give Luggage another month or two.
 
sounds good
 
does anyone else want to tell me about someguy?
 
Conclusion: Roel will be promoted. Luggage, not at this time.
 
btw 1.6k message are enough to become room owners ( i mean this doesnot make user regular) ?
 
Alright demotion discussions?
 
7:31 PM
yeah I like Luggage but he's like there 2 days/month
 
loljk
 
Demotion anyone?
 
:(
 
Jan Dvorak and Cerberus were mentioned.
 
Raised Cerberus and Jan, but got vetoe'd.
 
7:32 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yep
 
\o @AwalGarg
 
Apparently I just don't see them
 
Due to lack of activity.
 
@towc o/
 
I see Jan
 
7:32 PM
I say yeah for Cerberus, nothing personal of course
I have seen Jan though
 
I think both were active in the last month - no reason to be trigger happy
 
Cerbrus... yeah
 
I see jan too @FlorianMargaine
 
Same ^
 
Vote to demote Cerberus
 
7:32 PM
Let's give them more time then
 
Vote to keep Cerberus
8
 
What no. Jan is such a nice person... :(
 
@Loktar No vote
needed
 
@Loktar I say keep him - he is active but not as active. He's doing a good job overall.
 
7:33 PM
Sounds good
 
I don't like Cerbrus :(
3
 
I'm also for keeping Jan of course.
3
 
here's roel
 
@FlorianMargaine hehe
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum +1
 
7:33 PM
:P It seems like I should participate.
 
... and apparently everyone likes that I don't like him. Why did you vote to keep him?
 
oops
 
Alrighty.
Any other demotions?
 
jk
 
@SecondRikudo yes. @RoelvanUden
 
7:34 PM
@FlorianMargaine You don't have to like him, you have to think he's a decent+ room owner
 
@FlorianMargaine I couldnt vote :(
but I say no
If there are no more demotions we can move onto 4 if you guys are ready
 
Simon hasn't been active in a month.
 
ooh yeah thats true
I love Simon but he is rarely around
 
SimonSarris ?
 
Who's Simon again? XD
 
7:35 PM
yeah SimonSarris
 
@Zirak yeah. I still voted to demote him (I haven't seen him much, and when I see him, it's only to rant about main)
 
@SecondRikudo author or HTML 5 book and one great person.
 
Then again, he seems to really care about being RO for some reason. Last time when "the drama" happened he got really upset. So I say we vote for him - but I'm saying in advance I'm voting for keeping him since I care enough about him.
 
@SecondRikudo he wrote HTML5 Unleashed
 
So I'm voting to keep him - but for the wrong reasons :D
3
 
7:35 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum haha same
 
I vote to keep him because he mentioned the JS room in his book. A printed book.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I second you
 
I think we should keep him for now
 
^ that too
 
@FlorianMargaine fuck javascript room he mentioned our names !
 
7:36 PM
Sure, let's see what happens this month.
 
@FlorianMargaine oh is it?!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum O' politics, thou art a weird mistress
 
Alright
 
@darkyen00 some names
 
More demotions?
 
7:36 PM
@Zirak you are too, to be fair
 
@AwalGarg yeah. There's even my name on it :P
 
@Zirak ahahaha! Well, we can just bookmark the stuff you told me about yesterday :D
 
Should we have a room sponsored/hosted game jam?
3
 
@mosho?
 
Crap sorry @FlorianMargaine
 
7:36 PM
@Loktar HELL YES
 
@FlorianMargaine Mosho is a room owner?
 
he's there now and then, but I never see him moderating
 
@FlorianMargaine he's been active
 
It sounds like a great idea, but I don't have time between all my other little things
 
Yeah, Mosho has been around.
 
7:37 PM
@FlorianMargaine what happened to him? It's been ages since I've last seen him
 
@KendallFrey my thoughts too :/
 
19 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
he's there now and then, but I never see him moderating
23 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
he's there now and then, but I never see him moderating
 
"moderating" isn't quantifiable.
 
lol
 
@FlorianMargaine ...I find your name in the php-src contribs list to be more cool. one day... i'll be there... one day...
 
7:37 PM
@Loktar For the illeterate amongst us, could you please explain what a game jam is?
 
@Loktar I won't participate, probably. Too much work.
 
Just participating with a healthy attitude helps the room.
 
@Loktar It'd be a fluke like the monthly challenge
2
 
The italics add weight.
 
@AwalGarg you only have to know how to run GCC in order to get commit access to php-src :P
 
7:38 PM
@Zirak fraid so
 
Basically you just make a game @SecondRikudo
 
@Zirak remember octavians teamspeak ?
 
@Zirak monthly challenge worked the 1st time
 
@SecondRikudo Build a game in a limited time frame
 
using JS
but yeah it would be a flop imo
 
7:38 PM
@Zirak my thoughts exactly - although I'd love it for someone to prove me wrong.
 
@Zirak yeah, so let's do nothing toghether for the rest of the room's life?
 
@FlorianMargaine "Worked". There were 4 submissions?
 
@Zirak more iirc
 
@Loktar see my suggestion
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh is it?! You have all my attention, if you have the time and feel like it, I would like to get some headsup with that :D
 
7:38 PM
@darkyen00 Of course
 
we can instead discuss upon a room fund
 
Like, a 6 hour game jam would be cool, but that's barely enough to make a proper game
 
@darkyen00 For what purpose?
 
@towc To be fair, nothing we planned to do together fleshed out
 
@KendallFrey yeah if we did it on hangouts or something it might be cool
 
7:39 PM
For supporting any project that the room decides
 
over a weekend maybe. ALso had prizes might be an incentive
 
democratically
 
@Zirak let's keep trying: maybe some day we'll find something thatworks
 
no, no prizes
I don't like prizes
 
@AwalGarg go to the php room, tell them you know php and C (if you don't learn) - they'll send you to iircmaxell's blog for all the need-to-know about the engine, then make some clean up PRs on GH and you'll get a @php.net address in no time :D Anyway - more discussion in the JS room - I don't like making this room dirty.
 
7:39 PM
and by fund i Mean by code or by cash, no compulsion even by testing
 
The only prize is the tears of your crushed opponents
 
lol
 
oriignal idea was florian margaines contributors army
but since we all KNOW each other (at least the regulars)
 
opponents? that gives me an idea...
 
In theory its a great idea, in reality I don't think it would work out.. but if someone wants to put one together it would be awesome :P
 
7:40 PM
we can collaborate better on each others projects
 
As someone who organized game contests with thousands of dollars of prizes professionally before - they can be really cool - but you need people who are dedicated to the concept.
 
what if we coded directly against each other?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Stay on-topic please.
 
how about this other kind of monthly challenge: wins who managed to help more users in the js room with their problem without giving them the answer
 
or help them.
 
7:40 PM
@towc tiresome to keep track of.
 
@towc meh
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum s/tiresome/impossible/
 
@SecondRikudo dystroy won't need but miaou is a great example
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum counting finds a way
 
and caprica is aswell.
 
7:41 PM
I think game jam should just be: If anyone wants to pick up the glove and organize it go ahead - but it sounds like a lot of convincing will have to happen if that someone is expecting participation.
 
@darkyen00 Caprica is a few steps away from being deprecated by a server-side version (if Zirak stops being a lazy-bum)
 
yeah, someone just needs to do something
 
@SecondRikudo that is exactly where this room fund helps
 
I'd be all for a microjam, it might not even have to be a game
 
what happened to the contributors army? They never took on a project?
 
7:42 PM
the whole room contributes to ONE single repo
decided democratically of a room-owner
 
@towc It never took off, there was no one to lead it.
 
Like a bash.org clone, right?
Or a clone of chat.stackoverflow
 
@Zirak miaou
Dys + Flo
 
Who did 99% of miaou?
 
Is it fair to say the concensus is if you want to host a jam/code challenge/compo in the JS rooms name thats fine as long as you're willing to organize it?
2
 
7:43 PM
yep
 
Who did 99% of any open source project ?
core contributors... duh
 
@Loktar Sounds fair
 
@darkyen00 Jon Skeet
2
 
I'd say: stop talking about events in room meetings. It takes at least 10 minutes every time. We all know we love them, and all it takes is one person to organize it.
2
 
bah dum tsssh
 
7:44 PM
@Loktar lgtm
 
@KendallFrey Is that even a thing?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum wow man.. an internet acronym I dont know
 
@FlorianMargaine much meta.
 
@SomeKittens We could make it one
 
@Loktar Looks Good to Me
 
7:44 PM
haha alright
 
!!urban lgtm
 
Alright next topic?
 
Never got code reviewed before? :P
 
@SecondRikudo oh, also though of a short for "legitimate"
 
WRONG ROOM @Zirak
 
7:44 PM
Improving the attitude towards users who use, need help with, or mention jQuery.
3
 
cough cough
 
@darkyen00 wrong capslock
 
@Loktar send them to a jQuery room?
 
Is there a jQuery room? :O
 
@Loktar People should not try to help if they don't want to help.
 
7:45 PM
CAPS LOCK IS STUCK CAN'T HELP
 
@Loktar JQUERY IS FINE. FFS STOP THE NEEDLESS BASHING.
 
I don't see this as a huge problem.. but it does seem like an elitist attitude
 
@RoelvanUden if not, someone must make it
 
I have been typing with shift pressed all the time.
 
It's not about jQuery
 
7:45 PM
if someone has an issue that uses jQuery the first answer shouldnt be "Learn pure js don't use jQuery!"
 
@Loktar Rule #1: Don't be a dick (unless it's really funny)
 
If you're not "feeling helpful", don't try and help.
3
 
@RoelvanUden I made a jQuery appreciation room once, made Jeff Atwood and John Resig ROs at April fools for fun.
 
You'll come across as arrogant and obnoxious, and no one will be happy.
 
@SecondRikudo right, ignoring is perfectly fine.
 
7:46 PM
Here's what I find: I have never used jQuery for a nontrivial page or site, but I'm still able to help many people with jQuery questions. That's a problem.
 
@Zirak that's actually giving very helpful suggestions, not being a dick
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum this year make a CLR room , i need not say more.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum My world became a lot nicer once I figured out I can just not give a damn about people/topics I don't like
 
Jan 16 at 22:07, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
Repeating what I said to that dude. Helping newbies is not our number one priority as a room. We're the JS room not the "learn how to JS room" or the "JS newbies help room". We're usually trying to be helpful. As soon as it comes at the expense of the room's discussion level I'm against it
 
Yup, I don't see that changes.
As for the concrete case of jQuery
True, "learn JS" isn't a helpful answer.
 
7:47 PM
Not helping someone with a generic jQuery question is ok. Sneering at them isn't. Teaching them better ways is.
 
I guess its personal thing
If you want to help you can
 
But "learn array functions" is not a helpful answer to "how do I iterate an array with for?"
 
If you're going to tell someone "learn real JS" you should be the one to teach them.
 
if you don't just don't demotivate.
 
If you want to be helpful, show the user how it can be done
 
7:48 PM
@SecondRikudo How about showing them the solution, but without jquery?
 
If you don't, shut the fuck up.
 
I object to the notion of "real js" but sure.
 
Yeah but showing someone how to negotiate buying a Honda because they have a flat tire on a Ford isn't a good solution
 
Well DO we need a protocol for bashing somebodys code ?
 
@copy that's always nice. I have an answer on that lemme find it.
 
7:48 PM
like today @Zirak bashed a person outright
 
@copy This really depends on the situation.
 
when he wanted reviews on his lib
 
36
A: How can Stack Overflow users be encouraged to use jQuery only when appropriate?

Benjamin GruenbaumWhile I am a strong proponent of JavaScript education myself, and learning how to get stuff done without relying on thousands of lines of external code... Let me play the devil's advocate. Let's say you're writing an application that has to only run on modern browsers (old IE support is a big ...

 
You can't know the user's browser needs
 
@Loktar yes it is :P
 
7:48 PM
i think that was very demotivating.
 
@darkyen00 When you ask people to review your code, you should be ready to get bashed, hard.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Ok, cool
 
seriously tho: let's make a jQuery room, and invite people with problems with jQuery only there. If the problem is actually in the logics, then the people there will send the newbies in the JS room
 
@darkyen00 you're saying he didn't sugarcoat what he was saying? That's good.
 
That's especially true with libraries.
 
7:50 PM
@towc eh fragmentation is meh.
 
@towc I don't see that taking off.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum , @SecondRikudo I am asking just be slightly more mature ?
 
we could try
 
@towc no one who cares enough about JS would want to participate in a jQuery room - it's not an innovative technology any more.
 
Instead of saying "THIS SUCKS"
 
7:50 PM
@darkyen00 huh? I wasn't being offensive. He wanted reviews, I looked at his code and pointed out what came out as horrible
 
If you are already helping someone and its taking a lot of chat space the proposed solution before was to make a private room with them
 
rather say here is why it sucks, and here is a pointer to how you can improve.
 
@darkyen00 When did I say "this sucks"?
 
@darkyen00 There's a big difference between constructively ripping someone's code to pieces, and saying "IT SUCKS"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum None of us have to be there to kickstart it
 
7:50 PM
@Zirak you didn't literally said that.
 
Whenever someone needs help with jQuery, we simply say, "There is a room for that"
 
I am saying not everybody in the world understands that we are constructively
 
I'd like to differentiate between "Your code is terrible" and "Your code is terrible, here's some ways to make it awesome"
 
criticising
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum true that. Some regulars from the JS room who also care about jQuery could hang out in both rooms until a community is grown on it's own there
 
7:51 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum tells me my code is awful on a regular basis, then shows me how to make it awesome.
 
Why have two seperate rooms?
 
@Neil to which they answer "But there's no one there"
 
@towc This is something that pretty much happened for C#, too. Rooms for specific technologies, e.g. ASP.NET and WPF. While there are, occasionally, people there, they are the same crowd as the C# room. Meanwhile, the questions still end up in the C# room. Having rooms for technologies/libraries, not languages, seems like a bad idea.
 
@SomeKittens How about, "Your code is terrible, because …"
 
What I said was "here's what you're doing wrong". Yes, I didn't provide extensive documentation on how he can improve it, but I gave him pointers. But let's not make it about this.
 
7:51 PM
Should we make a room for every library we dislike? :P
 
@Neil I participate in jquery/jquery sometimes.
 
@towc There's already a jquery room, it's dead
 
Then we could be called the very specific use case JavaScript room
 
@copy Hmm. Ideally, there'd be a solution, i.e. "That code is bad because it's the N+1 antipattern. Link to SO question"
 
I like what @BenjaminGruenbaum said really
 
7:52 PM
@Zirak because there was probably nobody to make it helpful as you could
 
we aren't a room to teach you JS, and ignoring is fine
 
@Zirak I have nothing personal against you or this issue, it was pretty decently handled
 
@SecondRikudo Though you have the excuse to say that this room is only for js therefore, sorry
 
@Neil jQuery is JS though
Why Angular but not jQuery?
 
@SecondRikudo jQuery is love, jQuery is life
 
7:52 PM
@Loktar jQuery is The Library we dislike, not just a library we dislike
it deserves it's place
 
@SomeKittens Right (although I can't start explaining to a newbie why global variables are bad)
 
Guys, the idea of making a separate room for jQuery is like making a separate Stack Overflow for help vampires, and that's exactly the intent behind it too. It won't work, and I'm not sure I want it to.
Not for those reasons.
 
I dislike Angular, make a seperate room for that
its just not maintainable to do that and adds noise
 
If someone decides that the help he gets in the JS room is inadequate, I'll support opening a jQuery room
But not to "get all those pesky jQuery questions away from my sight"
 
meh, jQuery has a big piece of the pie..
 
7:53 PM
I've directed people to the jquery IRC room on freenode
Its very active
 
The question is why we want to direct people to a different room
 
statistically makes sense to have a room for jQuery, but not the same can be said for angular
 
jQuery should not get special treatment and that's not why Luggage asked it would be discussed.
 
It's because they bring the quality of the room down
 
He asked it to be discussed because it bothered him that people were dissing other people for using jQuery.
 
7:54 PM
Yeah, the problem is the general bad attitude towards someone who is using or has an issue with jQuery.
 
That should be addressed
 
@Zirak I disagree.
 
I think it's fine - a room is not an objective beacon of truth.
 
I oppose a dedicated jQuery room
 
If you go to chat you want opinions.
 
7:54 PM
You can have perfectly constructive questions about jQuery.
 
Having a room for jQuery doesn't address this problem?
 
We don't owe you objectivity.
 
So.. here is what I have for notes so far
 
It's the help vampires that bring the level of discussion down
 
@Neil that won't work but go right ahead and open one.
 
7:54 PM
And not jQuery itself.
 
Ignoring is fine, the room isn't the Learn how to JS room.
If you're not "feeling helpful", don't try and help.
Rule #1: Don't be a dick (unless it's really funny)
3
 
@SecondRikudo Yes.
 
I support people generally not being dicks to people who ask noob questions
 
I am off now, need to work.. i needed feel free to ping.
 
caprica has a command to search for jquery docs, but not angular or any other library. This is librarism.
 
7:55 PM
@darkyen00 see ya
 
@Loktar And to that last point I'll add that what's funny to you is not necessarily funny to OP, show understanding.
 
@darkyen00 thanks for participating, see ya.
 
@SecondRikudo yeah it was a direct copy/paste from @Zirak
 
I think we have a consensus on this. Anyone has anything else to add?
 
@AwalGarg Make a PR or GTFO.
 
7:56 PM
@SecondRikudo PR to remove the jquery command? On the way!!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes
 
:D
 
We really need to add that specialized welcome message :P
 
My sign is Libraism
 
@SecondRikudo we still have more topics.
 
7:56 PM
Alright next topic (we have hit the hour mark)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's related
 
Add a JS room specific trash room so we can untrash stuff.
2
 
@Loktar Nah
 
@Loktar no
 
@Loktar I'm for it. The Python room discussed it in their meeting and had an interesting argument.
 
7:57 PM
I wasn't aware of the need to untrash stuff
 
If you own the trash room you can untrash stuff.
 
although... it's a weak no
I don't really care tbh, but I never had the need to untrash something
 
I'm an owner at bin
 
haha
 
7:57 PM
@Zirak what if it's frozen?
 
lololol
 
@Zirak thanks. Next topic.
 
I can arrange access to everyone
 
@FlorianMargaine then I smile
 
Room rules - do we need a site at all? Is it a good idea?
4
 
7:57 PM
@FlorianMargaine I think you can still move things to frozen messages
 
@SecondRikudo go for it.
 
I say no, we don't need a seperat site
 
@Loktar What is it currently?
 
@Loktar I like it
 
@SecondRikudo I think @rlemon hosts it on GH
 
7:58 PM
ok, that's something I had brewing in my head for a while, gimme a minute to explain it
 
@Loktar I'd say yes... but I won't be voluntary to do it
 
How many new folks read the rules?
 
@Loktar Why is that situation unfavorable?
 
eh I don't think its unfavorable, just not needed personally?
 
@KendallFrey If the site has GA enabled, maybe you can find some data from it?
 
7:59 PM
^ that would be awesome
has @rlemon moved it yet?
 
@KendallFrey actually a good question.
 
Having rules is a good idea, but it's for that once-in-a-lifetime where we need to discuss etiquette with someone who's no longer a newbie, but not yet a regular, like that our language is English, that we're sometimes offtopic, etc.
Someone just coming in the room can't and shouldn't be expected to read it.
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