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8:32 AM
@Stargateur Is there something you do like? :)
2
 
8:56 AM
The iter_mut question probably exists just because the documentation isn't clear. Why is it not explicitly specified in text that the returned item type is &mut T ?
 
9:19 AM
Because it is implied in the descriptive and self-documenting method name iter_mut?
(I don't know which question you're talking about though..)
 
This one. It is implied when you know Rust well enough. A new rustician may not expect a reference for a Copy type.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:39 AM
Why is this room less and less active? Did everybody migrate to the Zig room ? Or the Java one ?
 
Well, I don't know about others, but I was insanely busy for the last month, and I literally had no spare time on my hands to pop in and start a discussion.
 
11:04 AM
@DenysSéguret I would say, you have been particular active recently. And e_net4 a little less and shep a lot less
 
11:19 AM
Whelp
 
 
1 hour later…
12:44 PM
Before you think so, I don't necessarily agree with this article, I just found it interesting enough to share it with you. IMO it is a great conversation started. And albeit it has some good points, I think it makes quite a few big logical mistakes and stretches so its conclusion may not be something I would take too seriously though.
It is also interesting to put this one next to that, very different angle, but still on the subject.
 
> Some fear it will be “the worst of both worlds”
Some(Jason)
 
LOL, read through the entire thing first ;)
 
1:23 PM
@Jason aww <3
 
And there's me. Before the pandemics I was going to the office twice a year. Now the direction just announced that everybody in Europe had to go the the monthly meeting. Even me :\
 
I mean, you're in Europe that's basically going to the mall for me
obviously this is a joke about how in Europe you can take a train and end up three countries away in half an hour, whereas when I take a train half an hour I'm mostly just out of my city.
 
"half an hour"
 
I am known never to exagerate
;-)
 
It's more than 3 hours for me to go to the office in Paris suburb. The same to go back. For a meeting.
 
1:29 PM
yeah, jokes aside, that sucks, I'm sorry you have that pinned on you by the powers that be
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Have you actually been in Europe? :see_no_evil:
 
Once, I think, at 11 yo
obviously that means I've integrated any and every traveling shenanigans that happen over there
 
Naturally :)
And IIRC you're from Canada, right?
 
Well, yeah, compared to that, everything is rather small
Hmm..
https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTc4MDE0Mzk.ODI2MDkyMQ*MjkzMTg1MzY(OTQwMjUyMA~!CA*NjM3MzAyNA.MjIzMDU5ODg)Mw
You have to C/P manually, sorry, SO chat, as always is dumb AF
 
1:33 PM
wow! this is fascinating! I don't think I've ever seen such an efficient tool at showing the projection effect on dimensions!
 
I really like this tool, I discovered it quite some time ago. Before that, I have a very unrealistic notion how big countries are
Project the globe to 2D is so misleading..
 
@PeterVaro most of population is in quebec
 
@Stargateur Said the French man ;)
 
@PeterVaro TBH URLs with parenthesis and similar chars are painful to integrate in a "kinda markdown" format. I do handle them in Miaou but not brackets.
 
1:36 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier there are few of this quite nice specialy for people thing africa is "as big as russia" when in fact you can put 2 russia in africa
@PeterVaro ? what ?
 
@Stargateur wut ?
 
@DenysSéguret Fair enough, but still.. :P
 
@DenysSéguret most population of canada live in quebec
 
@Stargateur You should probably have a look at the numbers
 
look a LOT of canada is actually empty
 
1:37 PM
yes, but the "south" is not all Quebec
 
@Stargateur That's why it is so great.
 
@DenysSéguret I'm not that good in geography, I just happen to know quebec is the state where most canada population live, and of course some other place like we clearly see on this map
 
@PeterVaro In my previous job, I was working on a climate change analysis platform (called PAVICS), and I've had to project datasets upon maps, which was my introduction to the marvelous and unsettling world of projections.
 
@DenysSéguret and I believe I'm still better at geo than 99.9% of american united
 
@Stargateur Quebec population: about 8M. Canada: about 38M
 
1:40 PM
If I could choose randomly and freely where to live, I would choose in this order: Norway > Canada > Scotland. Now realistically, maybe I will be able to live in Scotland at some point. Either way, outlandishly beautiful places.
 
@DenysSéguret yeah I know but the point is most population is in a very reduce space arount quebec city
 
A lot of people would choose Norway. But not their wife who doesn't like the cold.
 
@PeterVaro (cont'd) most every time since then where I've tried to explain what a projection is, and how it affected our perception, was a resounding failure, and that website is very neat in that regard.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Sounds fascinating! But that purely code I assume, no graphical representation, no?
 
the metropolis in quebec and ontario is 13.5 + 8.15 pop, this is 21.65 millions peoples on 38M of canada
 
1:41 PM
@PeterVaro I was working with OpenLayers (the JavaScript library) and GeoServer to project visualizable climate data, so yes, a graphical representation
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I've already explained that to my sons but using a physical globe. Those are underrated for education.
 
@DenysSéguret It is a bummer, that women generally feel colder at a lower temperature. So one must find a partner from the north then, eh?
 
@PeterVaro Norway and Iceland are personal dream living destinations
 
@PeterVaro I won't give any advice. That's just an observation and it might be quite anecdotical...
 
1:44 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier A friend of mine lived in Iceland for a year or so, and he found it (surprisingly) very unfriendly and closed to outsiders.
Norway is very different in that regard as far as I know (also from friend's experience)
 
Realistically, I know many people who emigrate or go work in places like Norway or French Guyana do give up after a few years. Not everybody is built for that.
 
@DenysSéguret No, no, no, it is a fact. There's a reason why there are separate women sleeping bags for example. Their internal thermometer is very different from ours.
 
@PeterVaro I read something about it but don't remember detail
 
@DenysSéguret I know a lot of people find the darkness and cold very difficult to cope with. I'm on the opposite side though: I found insanely difficult to work and live in a warm environment, let alone in hot weather.
 
1:47 PM
@PeterVaro same
 
@PeterVaro When hiking in Norway, I did find it difficult. Cold climate to sleep outside and quite closed people.
 
every time I go to office I fight to close windows ??? obscuration ?
 
@DenysSéguret I found it exactly the opposite... Oh, subjective impressions, eh?
 
why people love this much sun...
 
@PeterVaro my dataset is small
 
1:48 PM
@Stargateur That, I have no idea of..
 
@Stargateur they're not vampires
 
@DenysSéguret So is mine :)
 
my dataset is bigger than y runs away
 
LOL
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I literally feel week when there is too much sun... that and my allergy to pollen that often trigger cause sun => pollen :p
 
1:49 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I've hitchiked in way more countries than you all
 
I go in london one time, worst trip of my live
but I visited a lot the France ME, contrary to a lot of people who don't even visit their own country
 
@Stargateur Are you implying there's too much... sun... in London ?
 
@DenysSéguret leans into it Of course you did, you can get to other countries in half an hour ;-)
 
@DenysSéguret Of that, I'm quite sure.
 
kidding, I'm really not the outdoorsy person I wish I could call myself
 
1:51 PM
I don't understand that London reference :thinking:
 
I need more sun. I find the lack of sun here to be too depressing already.
 
a wild Some(Jason) appears!
 
@DenysSéguret school trip, bad food, stupid english people who didn't wake us one time (family host) to take a shower in time before going to visit boring museum and of course the first day, bus got a problem and we stay waiting in the bus the WHOLE DAY. worst trip ever... that may be why I never wanted to visit other country... but man god, we have been serve the worst food I ever eat in my life...
 
Haha
 
1:52 PM
BTW my laptop doesn't like the sun. And doesn't like docker. And really doesn't like both at the same time
(and that's after I've put ice below it)
 
@Jason you are black ? no ? cause black people need more sun ( a lot more ) than white people to produce enough vitamin D
 
sudo killall sun
 
@Stargateur Ha, yes, I am well aware of that.
I once asked my mom about this, she said I was given extra vitamin-d at birth or something.
 
probably, where to you live when you was young ?
@PeterVaro and kill the only thing that keep the earth alive ? :p
 
The Netherlands, still! :-)
 
1:55 PM
@Stargateur All right, all right, Ctrl-Z then..
 
And sitting behind a monitor all day doesn't help much :-)
 
I think there are some light-therapy-pads one can buy. maybe someday monitors will come integrated with that?
 
@Jason Well, unless you really wish to become a member of the blue bloods ;)
 
@Stargateur That reminds me of those rogue planets that don't have a sun.
@PeterVaro I could cosplay as Blade.
 
1:57 PM
@Jason yeah typical the limit geo where black people starting getting trouble with sun low exposition, on the positive, black people are way more resistant to bad effect of sun, where white people literally die way faster close to the equator :p that actually one a the few main difference between people with different skin color, the light radiation.
 
@Jason I meant it this way (as a pun): urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blue%20blood
 
@PeterVaro that explain the long life of the queen
 
It does, doesn't it? ;)
 
@PeterVaro Ah, yes! It translates nicely into Dutch as well.
 
Yeah, we use the same in Hungarian too
IIRC the expression has Spanish origin though
@DenysSéguret & @Stargateur It makes perfect sense to me: Why do women feel the cold more than men?
 
2:07 PM
@PeterVaro fascinating
 
@PeterVaro yeah my memory recall have read a similar explaination
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Insanely cool project, right? I found it last year and I was intrigued to build my own..
(But then laziness won at the end..)
 
I hear you
 
@Stargateur your choice of question for closing the "retain" one is disputable IMO. It doesn't even have an useful answer for this case
 
@PeterVaro Oh, wow, I didn't know about that etymology and the sad history behind it: Limpieza de sangre.
 
@Stargateur Yes, I voted for this one
 
I like duplicate cause it's link question, but I think one should be able to answer a "closed duplicate question" to allow a more "personal" answer for the OP
 
please...
that *2 the normal cost
 
@Jason Tell me any examples from our history, which if you really look into and dig deep, won't make you sad by nowaday's standards..
 
2:15 PM
and *4 the real production cost
 
fuck mining indeed
 
Thankfully, the world is changing, albeit not quickly enough and radically enough. But at least it is.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier not only that but yeah clearly... I HATE crypto currency for a LOT of reason
 
@Stargateur Mainly because whenever you search for a Rust job, you'll see only them..
:D
 
@PeterVaro useless job and work that just damage the planet
 
2:18 PM
@PeterVaro Oh, yeah! Something that did not make me sad a couple of weeks ago was reading a bit about Polynesian navigation. It's an incredible human feat to me.
 
@Stargateur Play Tribo. It can run 60FPS on the lowest end computers
 
@DenysSéguret hopefully my work pc can run game, but... damm, one year without my true war machine...
 
@Jason Fair deuce, it was a rhetorical question, lots of scientific discoveries are awesome indeed. (Not all of them though, there are just far too many that actually hurt animals and humans along the process, directly or indirectly as a side-effect..)
 
@Stargateur It looks like they even dropped in price. An old friend of mine asked me if I knew anyone that was selling a 3080 or 3090 and when I had a quick look I noticed people were selling the latter for €3.000,-.
 
2:24 PM
@Jason I will resist as long I can
that the perk of being french
 
there's a joke in there somewhere
 
in being French probably
2
 
broken english ?
use your brain to understand me, I'm sure it possible :p
 
Don't play Daggerfall. You won't be able to stop.
 
2:31 PM
@Shepmaster just saw this edit stackoverflow.com/posts/44710935/revisions. What do you think ?
@E_net4theflagger that a normal symptom of this game yes
also work on factorio
BTW, we still don't have our logo for playground
 
@PeterVaro Yeah, the level to which people took factory farming here is something I would like to see change.
 
:52431990 specially shep is the creator of rust playground... saying it's not "official" feel so wrong
 
@Stargateur It's the same here and it's easier to check it's a legit URL when it's an official one, in fact
 
I just want to rollback it to send a message about this isn't important and my choice of playground
 
Or just let it go... no need to defend this ground
 
2:42 PM
@Stargateur Haha, I think Shep was busy with some high priority things such as the Playground throwing errors at the time.
 
@Stargateur Use your brain to learn English properly? :see_no_evil:
 
@PeterVaro If you take into account programming language I'm already speak dozen of languages :p give me a break
 
Sure, sure, I was only teasing you :) Albeit, you're the one who makes fun of people who can't face the fact that "metric won over imperial", well, the fact is, despite all of Macron's attempts to use French during their term in the EU, "English won over others" XP
(Which is a shame of course, because naturally, Hungarian should've been the dominating language around the world.. but hey.. life ain't fair, eh?)
 
@PeterVaro I take it you're Hungry?
 
Oh please don't go there :D
 
2:49 PM
We should change the mandatory universal language every 6 months
2
 
LOL
 
@Stargateur I’d probably roll it back. It changed the gist id as well, which is suspicious.
 
I have no strong feeling about the choice of an "official" language cause all languages are very arbitrary, I think english is fine, french is not that bad too, speak by a lot too, spanish of course is also a lot spoken but have a lot of variant all over the world. mandarin is out of the question cause while spoke by a lot, it's a "bad" designed language, arabic too for quite the same reason and few locator.

So I believe English, spanish, (portuguese ?) and french are good choice. No reason to use only one language. and translate to the more language possible with can to spread information.
@Shepmaster probably doesn't know the gist trick, I rollback it, why not finally :p I wanted to use int32 this time so I use int32 :p
 
@Stargateur Why not German? :-)
 
2:52 PM
I've been meaning to learn arabic for a little while. The first recommended steps from summary google search was to learn the letters, and they're quite beautiful, if it seems there are a lot of rules on how to write them
 
@Jason english is germanic technically, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… anyway no enough people speak it and I don't like this language :p
 
@Stargateur Whilst I agree with a few points there, I think it would help people to have a globally spoken language. (And in the process it will destroy the language itself, as globalisation did with English.) It would help spreading ideas faster, get to a common ground in debates, etc. That being said, I've yet to meet a natural language that is actually well designed. English and French are both horrible, Hungarian included. The amount of exception, and legacy, and corner cases in them --
they clearly are badly designed.. mainly because they were not designed.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yeah sure, but have beautiful letter doesn't make a language good :p
@PeterVaro yes clearly, that why I said all language used today are arbitrary
 
@PeterVaro On that account Italian would be clearly a better choice than French. It's about the same but less messy
 
can a language be otherwise than not designed?
 
2:56 PM
Sure, there have been designed - or, in the field, they prefer 'constructed' languages.
 
@DenysSéguret I've never had any reason to learn it, I heard it spoken lots of times, my very dear mate is Italian for example, so I cannot possible comment on that.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Tolkien's Elvish?
(arguably not "natural" enough)
 
Loglan and Esperanto are two of the examples tht spring to mind
 
@Zarenor Or @E_net4theflagger's favourite, Esperanto
 
@PeterVaro actually french have been designed... it's a construct language
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Esperanto is such a constructed language I think.
 
2:57 PM
none of them have been wildly successful
 
@Zarenor huh. that counter-intuitive (to me). in a way, languages are literally means of communication between beings, in a way I can't really imagine how one would isolate a language's conception from its intended living space while keeping it usable in real life
 
@Stargateur It has been "sterilised" you mean, right? That happened to almost all languages.
 
@PeterVaro hah, indeed :)
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Talk to a linguist :)
 
I shall try!
 
2:59 PM
I think designing a natural language is easy enough. As Zarenor said though, non of the previous attempts actually worked.
 
There is this attempt at a universal Slavic language as well, Slovio, but I personally haven't heard good things about it from a handful of speakers.
 
I mean, think about it, what would happen if a country with centuries worth of written and spoken history would decide from one day to another that they want to use a different (maybe even a "made up") language?
What would the population do?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier It's definitely really interesting! I have a linguist friend, but he studies natural languages (middle englihs, high german, and some other bits of the germanic family, and with appications to shifts happening oday)
 
@PeterVaro it's a language mainly design by intellectual, than of course the language follow the nature course of a spoken language, the fun is that almost all the irregular in french come from DESIGNED irregularity cause it's sounded "better" :p the natural course tend to remove these irregularity over time. French is a academical language than become a abstand languages. quite rare.
 
@Stargateur Sure, the exact same thing happened in Hungary: academics at a given point introduced new word designs and structures, and grammatical inventions to the language. But similarly to French, one cannot say "it is a designed language". It has certain artificial bits, but both have evolved over centuries, influenced by surrounding countries, cultures, and immigrants.
Although, I have to admit, I'm very much out of my depth here, I am by no means a linguist, and I'm pretty sure, anyone can beat me when it comes to historical languages, and languages' histories.
 
3:07 PM
@PeterVaro to be clear, the origin of french grammar is artificial, you seem to imply french exist and than have been modified by intellectual.
 
I did say that, because I just quickly searched for the origins of French which implied that it is not designed.
Or maybe I misunderstand what you're saying and we have different understanding of the word 'design' (or 'origin' or 'history')
 
i may be wrong
 
I believe we both are out of our depths here. I'm happy to talk about this further, but I'm standing on shaky grounds here and I don't like discussions where blind leading the blind :)
 
what the hell did just happen? did Stargateur said he might just be wrong!? and then an internet conversation came to a conclusion of humans thinking they may be out of their depths?!! am I dreaming?
<3
 
TBF I'm very, very happy to admit if I don't know something, because once I do that, I actually open myself to be able to learn something new. And if there's one thing in this world that I love the most is learning itself.
 
3:20 PM
It is a great feeling :)
Speaking of learning, I also have, finally, stopped procrastinating and subscribed (enrolled?) for classes at university to qualify for astrophysics studies. After "pausing" university at 20 something, about 10 years later I shall now pursue that goal again :)
 
Do not summon me, lest I make you hear of the greatest Java-related atrocities I know.
 
Congrats @FélixGagnon-Grenier!
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Oh wow, that sounds preposterously exciting to me! Go for it! It would be cool to have an astrophysicist in the room :D
 
3:24 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier one more time, that not because I have strong opinion that I can't see good argument and change my mind, I'm strong not stupid
 
@Stargateur I do hope you don't think I find you stupid, that is very not the case <3
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier This is very impressive. I may speak mostly for myself but I'd gladly receive frequent progress info
 
well, I shall try to keep you posted. at the beginning, it will be mostly classes to get "up to speed" :)
@Stargateur I shall refrain from joking like this, come to think of it it wasn't even really funny
 
I don't mind the joke but, it's irritating, I often read about me that "I never change my mind" or "you never acknowledge when you are wrong" despise the fact it's totally false. And of course I have often the feeling the people telling me that are the one I know that actually never change their mind or acknowledge error...

I think I one of the FEW people who say "I'm wrong" or similar when I am.
people tend to only remember the bad thing you do
 
3:30 PM
I see now how it must be irritating to have this said to you often. please accept my apologies.
 
do not worry about that I need way more to be hurt
 
Yet, I still wish people need not have a "thick skin" to interact with me, though I am glad you are not hurt :) thanks for speaking up
 

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