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04:04
@Stargateur not sure what your Rust example supposed to prove, what is FAM in C which is impossible to get in C++? — Severin Pappadeux 1 min ago
do I really need to explain everything to someone who doesn't do any search but talk anyway
 
2 hours later…
05:38
@DenysSéguret "It is too late to undo this operation" ^^ I wanted to remove the star from the message I starred yesterday. Maybe that's why ;)
I think room owners can do that. I know I sometimes did some cleaning in the JS room
 
4 hours later…
09:15
@Shepmaster people.kernel.org/monsieuricon/… (ctrl+f snafu) ^^
Meh. The mail crate that reexports some mail-related crates does not allow to read mails through IMAP...
@hellow Yes, there are other crates, but they don't use the same model, AFAIK. I'll check that
ah, that's the problem. Why don't you open an issue?
I saw the title, I flagged it
Although I think that URLO is very opinion based as well ^^
09:37
@hellow Is it me? I don't find it very user friendly
@FrenchBoiethios dunno, you could also the imap crate which might be better ^^ crates.io/crates/imap
I think you should use the imap create :)
@hellow I've already seen it, it is synchronous :(
Not suitable for a real app
Unless I make it asynchronous myself, but I don't want to
@FrenchBoiethios build an asynchrous wrapper around
x)
@FrenchBoiethios ?
what do you mean exactly
oh...
(Sorry, that was not obvious from my post)
Does anyone know someone looking for a Rust job in London?
Ah you were contacted by this guy?
He's desesperatly needing a Rust dev, yep
09:54
@FrenchBoiethios Which guy?
No, we need a Rust dev.
Why did you ask? I was contacted by someone who's searching for a dev, but unfortunately, I don't know anyone who wants to move in London
Oh, ok.
Is that a permanent position?
@FrenchBoiethios Yes
@PeterVaro maybe? ^^
Hum, sorry, I prefer to work as a freelancer for now. I hope you'll find soon.
@Stargateur #yolo
09:59
@FrenchBoiethios do you work for many customers or just one ? How do you find them ?
@DenysSéguret Just one. Usually, no research is needed since IT services companies provide the clients, but they cannot find anything for Rust.
I'll work as a freelancer during ~2 years from now, but after that, I'll have no preference
That's because I accumulate the unemployment and my company gains. That's pretty much. If I take a permanent position, I will earn 3x less, and my wife won't like that :P
I can't believe people pay 3 more for freelance
You didn't read carefully. I get the unemployment money, too.
And I give less money to the government. The permanent employment is not really money-efficient in France
They pay twice more, I'd say
10:30
@hellow tokio-imap uses the old Future from the futures crate, so I guess that this choice is the better -_-
10:47
hope they will switch to std future fast
Has anyone written some guidelines or a plan for migrating the ecosystem to std::future?
I do have a CLI that uses futures, but can I do anything while my dependencies with futures are not using std futures?
@E_net4isoutofcommentflags "but can I do anything while my dependencies with futures are not using std futures" opening issues all over the place!
@hellow Can't a bot do that? :>
@E_net4isoutofcommentflags sure <3
No one in core team or futures crates work on that Oo
10:59
I do believe in automated assistants for some tasks. But they're particularly useful if they can send actual PR's.
Every crate maintainer should be over hyped about the stabilization of the Future trait and should release a new version ^^
that breaking change and as always people are coward.
even on < 1
that why I like nom dev
Without boats has recently mentioned on Twitter regarding how Rust devs are often overly conservative about breaking changes. It's true that consistency is required, but a crate might only ever be able to mature properly with such changes.
Found the tweet. It's also part of an interesting thread.
11:17
You can't be shocked a lib based on futures have breaking changes. You were explicitly experimenting if you choose such a lib
you can't be shocked of breaking change, we have version just do your breaking change and change version correctly
well semver is fine but most libs are 0.x and never go to 1 ^^
Future was instable. So they knew there were breaking changes at a moment
@DenysSéguret I don't really mind if they are stupid 0.1.1 and 0.2.0 is enough for me you lost patch numero but that not a big deal, they just limit semver feature
@E_net4isoutofcommentflags well without a boat and I agree, also there is some fight in this thread XD "Not at all. I think your tweet is shoehorning in a completely unrelated question in a passive aggressive way, a classic dumb nerd tactic I have no time for"
@Stargateur ignore
@Stargateur I like to think of v1 as an extra commitment to stability. If a dev ends up pushing a major release every month or so, then they'd have much rather stayed in 0.x.
11:24
@E_net4isoutofcommentflags yep, every year is ok for me
But yes, once you hit v1, you unlock the full power of semver.
I don't know the fuck there are doing with rand
I still didn't understand
All I know is that I can't keep all rand dependencies up to date at the same time. :[
@FrenchBoiethios I'm definitely interested!
@hellow thanks for the ping
11:47
@PeterHall Is that a finance-related job?
@FrenchBoiethios Yes. HFT
@PeterHall Huh, so the guy that contacted me is a recruiter chasing for this job.
Remember there are shims to run futures 0.1 with futures 0.3 and vice versa
@FrenchBoiethios That might be possible... what else did he say?
But there are other HFT platforms starting to use Rust, so it might not be
@PeterHall A "split" (not sure about the term) from a big bank (might be Rothshield); greenfield project.
11:51
@Shepmaster in french ? translate.google.com/…
@FrenchBoiethios ah. No that's not us.
@FrenchBoiethios Probably the term is spinoff?
@PeterHall Yes, I think that it is the correct term. Thanks.
What is your offer, out of curiosity?
@Stargateur Another word would be "adapter"
You can use one future type as another
this is just brain fuck
why so much work for 0.1 - -
@FrenchBoiethios Depends on the person I would say
11:59
@PeterHall For a pure technical profile
@Stargateur Because there's been 2 years of code written with 0.1 and we can't just throw it away overnight.
Even if every project wanted to upgrade right away, it couldn't happen instantaneously
well, they don't have to, and can just stick to 0.1 - -
While Future is stable, async / await isn't, so it's not as enticing to upgrade.
so you are saying they "update" but without any improvement because they stick to 0.1 feature anyway
useless in my opinion
@Stargateur but then a third party that is using new std futures / futures 0.3 cannot use any library that was written in 0.1
I frankly cannot see how compatibility can possibly be a bad thing.
12:11
@FrenchBoiethios Depends on experience (total and relevant). We are also early stage - we have closed our full round and have plenty of runway, but still being frugal and preferring equity instead of large salaries.
compatibility limit people because they can't do x thing cause that could not keep compatibility feature
I believe @Stargateur is talking about the fact that a pre-1.0 (i.e. 0.1) should not care about compatibility
if you are using that kind of package -- then expect anything but stability and compatibility
in short yes
And they didn't!
also wtf is preview-0.3...
preview of a 0.3
12:12
I feel like y'all are just ignoring the facts
@Shepmaster how do you know ?
@Stargateur That's because (a) Cargo wouldn't allow multiple versions of the same package in a Cargo.toml until recently with renaming (b) people kept adding futures (0.2 / 0.3) and trying to use it with 0.1 and filing bugs
so they yanked 0.2 and 0.3, renamed it until things settled down.
that just confusing as fuck
Yes, it was confusing that people would do cargo add futures and it wouldn't work, which is why they renamed it. The people who know what they were doing can add -preview
even futures is already a confusing name for people who don't know what it is
you add the wtf versioning
12:14
@Stargateur I always assumed futures in rust were just what futures are in the rest of CS (and I wait for them to be stable to use them)
I expect that the team is working to get to to futures-preview 0.3, which will probably be released as futures 0.3.
the wtf versioning means that people generally won't use it unless they specifically want the absolute latest. I think this is the intent and I don't see a problem with that.
And then we will get a bunch of new duplicates for stackoverflow.com/a/44437441/155423 (see "actix / futures")
@PeterHall Oh sorry, I meant a small job description
crates.io/crates/futures crates.io/crates/futures-preview just look 0.2 of futures have been yank no idea why then if you look at futures preview you must add futures = "0.2.2" according to the doc, this is so wtf that their own doc didn't follow
12:18
Is "wtf versioning" a term I am unfamiliar with?
@Stargateur "no idea why" — I Just told you why.
@Shepmaster that still don't make sense to me
there is literally no reason to have done that
@Stargateur "according to the doc" — because they have been working on writing the implementation of everything, they haven't worked on the documentation.
just use semver
imagine every crates do that
@Stargateur they did use semver!
@Shepmaster Lmao, with @Stargateur, you may explain several times the same thing :P
12:19
Remember that in Cargo, 0.1 and 0.2 are semver incompatible
(It's not mean)
you just defend something wrong
They released futures 0.1 which defined Future itself. People used that for multiple years, building up libraries and tools that other people used.
so when you dev something instead of increase major version you create a second crate where you dev, so we are expecting a futures-preview-preview for 0.4 ?
and you say to me this is normal ?
without problem
I think we have a range of people in mind:
1. A relative junior (say 1-6 years experience), who has shown they can learn quickly
2. More experienced dev (10+ years), with Rust or C++ experience
3. Someone with good working knowledge of bitcoin protocol (in Rust, Go, C/C++)
4. A front-end dev with experience with bitcoin protocol (processing & signing transactions, multisig, HDR etc.)
12:23
They released futures 0.3 which used the standard libraries Future, a completely incompatible release and required nightly. Everything broke because people just started adding "futures = 0.3". They didn't want to spend 15 minutes in a chat room explaining this issue to someone every single time, so they said "we will just release it as another name until we are done"
so they did that because people are stupid
that a bad decision in my opinion
@Stargateur Normal, I don't know, but it's totally justified to avoid having to explain to everyone basics about semver while trying to actually experiment and innovate
@FrenchBoiethios It's a small team and people need to be flexible and able to do any job.
@Stargateur Sure, but when you maintain a project with as many users as futures 0.1, you can run it the way you want.
so the core team encourage all people to do that for their own < 1
12:25
@Stargateur You are coming to an unfounded conclusion.
@Shepmaster do what I say no what I do so ?
I can't really have this argument / discussion now. I know that you enjoy arguing for arguing sake, and I don't actually know if you believe what you are saying. I've stated the facts and at each level you change your argument to something else minor. TTYL
@PeterHall 6 years is more like medior and almost senior (in case years mean actual work experience not just time spent doing this), isn't it?
@PeterVaro As you get older, your perspective changes
@PeterVaro I agree. I've never seen a 5 years experienced dev as a junior
12:28
@PeterHall agreed. your point is?
@PeterVaro My point is, I am old: 6 years is junior :P
@PeterHall I'm old as well, but I'm following the UK (especially London)-based terminology
in that sense, 6 years is not a junior
@PeterVaro it doesn't mean it's right.
IMO, there is not a big difference between someone who uses a technology since 10 years and someone who uses it since 30 years. That depends on the technology, of course, but the knowledge is asymptotic, if I may say.
but it is not wrong either. I interviewed a lot of people already, and my own personal experience is years almost mean nothing
12:33
That's much true.
you could have 10+ years of experience at a terrible company without personal growth or any kind of evolution
I've seen people doing C++ since 30 years who knew almost nothing
(is evolution the right word here? dunno..)
Junior/Senior means nothing. But when you go and ask HR for a "good" programmer, they insist you say junior or senior.
I consider that a junior is someone you must spend a non-negligible time to learn to.
12:36
speaking of which, this just arrived at this very minute, on the Rust London User Group:
> Hey Rust Community! Got a remote contract with a competitive rate looking for a Rust developer for an immediate start! please reach out to [email protected] if you're looking for work.
(I don't know anything about this, so no expectations whatsoever)
@PeterVaro and I might consider you to be junior in that case.
actually no. Just not good enough.
but then you would contradict yourself
years mean nothing then
@DenysSéguret you pay less a junior for the same job ... thx HR
and 6 years could might as well be enough to be senior.
I'm doing an ASP.NET job currently, 6 years is clearly enough to be senior ^^
12:40
depend on the person I know people 30 years will not be enough to be senior in javascript
It really depends on the person. I saw amazing growth in knowledge in C++, when a single junior was dropped in to the cave of seniors. He picked up routines and knowledge so fast that it was amazing to watch.
So situation, personal interest and ability to learn, etc.
these are the contributing factors, not years.
(at least, this is how I see it, which might as well be wrong ofc.)
And personally I also think these levels are more likely reflecting responsibilities rather then knowledge
I really really don't care if the colleague I find is 18yo or 65. But I want him/her to to know how to build things and to know what happened recently in the dev world (if (s)he doesn't know any recent innovative language, I know he's not curious enough).
@DenysSéguret are you sure? I mean, it is cool to learn Go or Rust or Elixir or whathaveyou -- but as someone who is relatively new to the industry would surely pick a language to learn/master based on the jobs they could find with it
in which case, the old/ancient ones might have an advantage
(besides -- is Go really that interesting? or modern?)
(or knowing Angular or React makes you any better dev? I don't think so..)
@PeterVaro I agree. Some people like the technology they use, and they just don't bother to learn anything else. That doesn't mean that they are bad at their specific field
IMO people who understand how things are working and why they are working in a certain way (from binary, through assembly, to VHL) would be able to pick up anything in no time.
12:47
My experience is that people who were really good at picking the right technology for their next project didn't have their eyes closed to what was happening outside their office
And we always have to choose things (libs, design patterns, algos, structs, etc.)
@PeterVaro ha ha ha
@DenysSéguret I second that people who spend their free time on exploring new things, building side-projects, pushing their own limits further are more interesting people in general.
BUT
@DenysSéguret The kind of people I was speaking about doesn't pick a technology. They are hired for being skilled in their speciality
that doesn't mean I don't understand people who would actually spend more time with their families
or with something totally unrelated to their work (traveling, fishing, tabletop wargaming, etc.)
@PeterVaro When I was the manager I've always let people explore things during their work time. I didn't want people to work 60 hours per week in the wrong direction
12:51
one of my teacher work in half, because he want "have time for personal thing", best man I ever meet BTW
@DenysSéguret that was very wise of you!
@PeterVaro I don't know Angular, but I'd say "yes" for React, as it's going to be a lot of people's first experience with unidirectional UI flow and maybe even immutable values
@Shepmaster the vast majority of the people I worked with so far who are coming from JS background (and not going there from some other language) have outrageously limited understanding of proper abstractions, higher-level concepts, deeper understanding of the underlying system/machine, etc. React has ridiculously painful implications on our everyday web experience and we could only blame people who are blindly following the latest tech-trends and jumped immediately on this bandwagon
so, I still say no, I don't think React would make you better -- but you could gain one type of understanding (one possible solution) of one specific problem.
If a frontend developer would tell me during the interview, that actually they would prefer Svelte -- I would be amazed then.
gtg on a meeting, ping me if you like, I'll bbl
I prefer angular so much
13:06
@PeterVaro Thanks for sharing that. I like Elm, but I don't like the fact that it does a fully JS application. I'd like more HTML, just like Svelte does as far as I can see.
13:21
@PeterVaro I'd like to hear more on "React has ridiculously painful implications on our everyday web experience"
@Shepmaster I saw that with an offshore team that built part of our front-end. They clearly had tried to use OO patterns.
Lots of complaining about how our design decisions were slowing them down and making it hard to do their job (they were hired on the understanding that they knew React and RxJs). Obviously they delivered garbage.
13:44
@PeterHall I can see that with any misused technology, and treating React in an OO fashion would qualify. @PeterVaro's statement seemed broader than that, however.
@Shepmaster ok. I have only seen React make things better, except when misapplied by people who didn't want to understand.
@PeterHall Yeah, I'm a super fan of it (and Redux)
14:07
@FrenchBoiethios No worries. That project may not be production ready (although it looks like it is) but the fact that 1. not using virtual DOM, 2. pushes most of the things at compile time (including converting native JS syntax into DOM updating actions), 3. feels native to the browser (which we could argue whether we should still have DOM, or the web as we know it in general in the first place -- but you get the idea :))
@Shepmaster wouldn't you call it horrible, if instead of using the already implemented, highly optimised stuff of a platform (let's say for the sake of argument, written in Rust), people would build the same thing, in a lot worth in Python and then would use that instead?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that every f*cking lifecycle event is called 50+ times before it finally has some sort of effect -- without actually no good reason?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that my monster power house machine could lag because I have 60 tabs open all of them using "the bleeding edge" frontend nonsense?
@PeterVaro Sure, if the the existing stuff allowed you do do what you need. Custom elements aren't equivalent in power yet though.
wouldn't you call it horrible, that it takes half a minute to load all the crap that a "web-app" requires today on my phone, while I'm on 4G network?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that every few month you have to update your application, not because it has bugs, but because one idiot decided that things should be a bit different than it was before?
@Stargateur don't even mention that -- I'm fighting with my tears.
the things that are happening today in the frontend world are horrible. it is all about reinventing the wheel in a ridiculously complicated and/or unoptimised way.
Stargateur's link is a good point though; that doesn't use React or really any fancy JS, and yet it meets your criteria.
14:15
that's why I'm really looking forward to WASM -- when it would grow up from its infancy, the things it would be able to do would be awesome..
but OTOH I believe WE (yes, the entire IT community) should be focusing on rebuilding the internet, to be a personal, decentralised, safe, private, fast, etc. network of small apps
without DOM, without JS, without transpilers, without even servers, without surveillance, etc.
but I guess it is too much to ask for, 'cause everyone is so obsessed with the "bleeding edge"
but that would be breaking change :)
@Stargateur less of a tearjerker! lovely!
@Shepmaster my anger is not just against React. as you can see, it is against the entire web.
(but Angular and React are a huge part of this thing)
@PeterVaro Almost all the entire web is a huge crappy bloated thing. Agreed.
14:19
@FrenchBoiethios and no surprise there -- it wasn't designed to do what it supposed to do now
A lot of what you seem to be saying is a combination of "We should do things the way we did 10-15 years ago" and "everyone should use things that are bleeding edge (WASM)"
yet, instead of coming together, and agree on something new -- everyone is happy patching it
@Shepmaster nah, I'm not saying that everything that is old is good. but I do think we solved these problems in the 80s maybe in the 90s.. and they are working -- otherwise we wouldn't have five-star desktop/mobile experiences
the problem is, we use a square as a wheel
because we think we can make it happen
and it is falling apart on every freakin' turn
cracking, squeaking..
"Throw away everything that exists and start over" simply isn't a tenable concept, so I try not to waste my time worrying about it.
Sure, it'd be nice
@Shepmaster also personally I don't think we would need WASM if we would drop everything that we call the web today
Not just what exists. People working, building, using the web today won't just wait for Peter to design the next web.
14:23
@Shepmaster my strong belief is that there are times, when you have to press that big, red button which says "reset"
@PeterVaro It's often like that. The web used to be a big mess that lacked good abstractions, was unmaintainable, and hard to make fast. Step one is to combine years of experience to produce frameworks and tools that allow for high quality, useful, maintainable abstractions. We are currently in the next phase, which is to make those things fast.
you cannot go on and on forever
Just because 80% of the web is still using 10+ year old tech doesn't speak for where the web is at today.
The same concept happens in the small with our own code bases, right? The big-bang rewrite fails more often than not. If nothing else, the old thing continues development.
Pretend that you could devote 50% of all the people currently working on "the Internet" as a whole to make a brand new thing from scratch.
If it takes you 5 years to rewrite, then the other 50% have kept developing new things, and then you need another 2 years to mimic that functionality, while they have kept working....
Zeno's Paradox
I don't even get at what your anger is directed. Is it the build tools ? The protocols ? The web is a network, it survived because you can build every parts separately and you don't have to delete the existing ones to add new nodes, you don't have to build your web app the same way it was done by your neighbour
14:28
@DenysSéguret If they would wait for me, we would be in bigger trouble than we are in right now -- I never claimed I have a solution or that I would be able to come up with anything better. All I said was: I'm working in this segment of the industry long enough to see that we have a problem. No, that's not right. We ONLY HAVE PROBLEMS without meaningful solutions.
That seems overly fatalistic and ignores all of the amazing things that we as a race have created over the last few decades.
@PeterHall Why can't I see any "high quality, useful, maintainable" + "optimised" (don't forget, we supposed to be engineers) solutions then? What kind of next phase is this?
(Not to ignore any bad things or poor implementations involved)
@PeterVaro You should spend some time with React + Redux or RxJS, with Typescript or Flow.
> The web is a network, it survived because you can build every parts separately
This is my hope ^
14:33
@Shepmaster My personal experience is 1. changing things could happen faster than you could imagine (think about new platforms, such as real-smart phones), 2. stop and say "guys, this is not working any more" is perfectly valid. you don't have to rewrite everything over night, 3. I get your point and I'm not saying that it is always easy, nor that it is feasible -- I've told you, I don't have a solution
@DenysSéguret it survived, because we haven't tried coming up anything better -- not because it is so great, or because it is working so well
As a pipe dream, maybe we replace C with Rust in most of the cases, keeping the limited C ABI. We also provide a richer Rust ABI (and maybe it's stabilized too). Then people can start using the Rust code directly, and we've "replaced C". Wait for the old code to die out, and we've "fixed" one piece
@Shepmaster I love, that we are connected. I love chatting here with you guys about this. Of course I do. And I learnt everything I know from the internet. That doesn't mean, it is working as it should. It's just that simple.
@PeterVaro We have only a few decades of life. We have to build, not just design. We have to build upon what's available, not start from scratch and aim for perfection. Or we'll have no occasion to apply our experience to another thing.
@PeterHall what do you think I'm doing for a living? ;)
@PeterVaro I think that "haven't tried anything better" cannot possibly be correct. I imagine that lots of people have tried and failed, which is why I don't know about them
14:36
@DenysSéguret why do I have to limit my design for one lifetime? why couldn't we say, I give everything I have to the ones coming after me?
@Shepmaster I hope that will happen. Seriously, I do.
imagine we could just erase all bad questions on SO, we would remove almost all js question... that would be wonderfull
@PeterVaro You're on the Rust channel, so I assumed Rust :)
@PeterHall I plan to switch to Rust full time -- but until then, fullstack at work, and embedded at home
@PeterHall sigh... I'm here because I'd love to rust ^^
@Stargateur LOL :D
@Shepmaster I only saw trying in the last couple of years
but that's just my ignorance, probably you are right, and there were others who have tried
14:59
@PeterVaro Have you seen all the Web3 work going on?
@SomeGuy If I search "Web3", I find a site full of marketing bullshit
@SomeGuy how is that supposed to solve the burning issues with privacy? or stop engineers using a thing to another thing it was not supposed to be used for?
second that, I only heard this expression from journalist and business people who have absolutely no idea what they were talking about
:D
They do have some interesting projects for a more decentralized web, which IMO is a key part of helping with privacy
@PeterVaro There isn't going to be one solution for all of the community's problems, haha. If you can enlist enough problems, go ahead, and let's propose solutions and work together to make them happen
15:07
@SomeGuy I didn't think there would be one, never said that -- I was probably meaning something else for Web3 than you did, and I just wanted to reflect on the fact that the Web3 I heard of is not a solution for any of the current real world problems
perhaps you could provide us some definition and links?
Oh, fair enough
@SomeGuy enlist enough problems — that's the easy part ;-)
I know it seems buzzwordy, but the technology behind it is founded on principles that make sense to me
A lot of that side of tech is buzzwordy for the sweet VC funding, I imagine :P
I cannot understand how the things could work without the servers
15:26
@FrenchBoiethios usually relies on redefining what "server" means
e.g. "serverless" means many things: "you don't manage the server" (e.g. Heroku), you don't have to write "all the code" (e.g. AWS Lambda), "there's no centralized special machine" (e.g. P2P)
I'm thinking of the latter
You cannot create a web in P2P
Why not?
Where are the data?
The web is effectively already P2P
You understand what I mean: if I turn off my computer, how can people access the data I have?
15:29
@FrenchBoiethios It's p2p
(I didn't know that was your particular issue, no)
but yes, other people could cache it
IPFS is very interesting
and there are interesting blockchain-based projects on top of IPFS which incentivise data storage redundancy
I was excited about this recently (obviously, understanding quite little of it) eprint.iacr.org/2018/962.pdf
@FrenchBoiethios tor is P2P
@PeterHall blockchain is a dead end
@Stargateur ok. I will trust that you know more about this than other people - otherwise you wouldn't be saying it on the internet.
2
15:45
@PeterHall haha I work in the field, the problem of blockchain is that calculation cost more and more, we live in a limited word, we can't afford to suppose we have infinite ressource. Blockchain is good when you don't need to add data very often. The key of why bitcoin will never work long is that it's unusable because there is too many exchange between people. You can't use bitcoin for let say 10€ because that cost 20€ to valid a 10€ transfert, the energy that it's cost is too much.
blockchain could have some use but I still wait to see a good one
@Stargateur Without getting into a pointless argument... the specific IPFS based projects completely avoid all of that. e.g. Filecoin is proof-of-storage, not proof of work.
@PeterHall that change nothing the blockchain will grown forever
@Stargateur Well.. we could refute each underinformed argument one at a time, but lets not :)
@Stargateur your argument seems to target bitcoin (and some other similar moneys) rather than the whole blockchain technology, right?
Let's just say that not all blockchain projects inherit all problems from Bitcoin.
15:49
@PeterHall well, I don't know how you can refute fact, it's the very nature of blockchain grown, and register everything
@PeterHall why not ? do you think bitcoin is crap ?
Some blockchains delete history once it has been sufficiently validated to prove the current state
well, yes, this could solve the problem but that indroduce a new one what define "it has been sufficiently validated to prove the current state" ?
@Stargateur I'm sure this problem will not be solved on Stackoverflow's Rust tag chat.
this problem is probably unsolvable.
If it cannot be solved in this chat, I'm pretty sure that it's actually unsolvable ;)
15:56
and for unknown reason people still think bitcoin is valuable, dailyfx.com/bitcoin come back from dead
Remember that blockchain and git are highly conceptually similar
Please stop conflating bitcoin and blockchain. We can only hope Bitcoin will die, the fastest the best, but the blockchain technology might have good applications
indeed now imagine a git used by millions that do ~n commit a day
@DenysSéguret Exactly. The issue with bitcoin is the proof of work, not the blockchain
Yeah, there's an interesting idea called "proof of useful work" too eprint.iacr.org/2017/203.pdf
I can see blockchain being practically useful for some things at least
I don't know what, but I don't believe that it's all just a fad
16:04
like I said, maybe but I still wait for a good idea, one of the best I know was for art transaction, be able to trace every art transaction without doubt was good, as there are few transaction of this type (we don't add little one), the chain could have been ok to manage, every owner of art would want to verify the chain so there would have user etc. The big problem is how do you link an art with the virtual data...
16:19
> Me: Your example is not minimal
> Them: *removes `use` statements and `#[derive(Debug)]`*
6
haha
that make me feel strange when people use we instead of I
We will make SO great again !
@Stargateur I just assume they are pair programming
isn't the question better on code review ?
I'm unsure
16:35
@Stargateur better I don't know. It seems focused enough to exist on SO.
Or it would be if there wasn't pages of gunk
It could also exist on CR, I think, so long as they are open to general feedback as well.
Can you prevent a code snippet in a rust doc to be executed in tests ?
(because in the specific context of tests it fails)
I think you can even mark it as must fail
No, I just want it to be visible in the doc, but it fails because an internal assertion doesn't like that the terminal's width is zero
(which doesn't happen outside of cargo test or outside of the doc)
Well, it will happen everytime you launch the app without terminal
no ?
No, it's just a function doc. You normally use it in your terminal app. But when I write a doc snippet, it's tested without the terminal app.
@DenysSéguret ```rust,ignore
rust,no_run is perfect, thanks a lot, I hadn't found it
(I want it to be compiled, so that I'm warned of outdated doc when the API changes)
@FrenchBoiethios dat.foundation
(I'm also using syncthing.net on a daily basis, and always wanted to use manyver.se)
there are plenty of solutions out there.. I was thinking about implementing a generic decentralised framework in Rust on top of which you could build any kind of application with a simple enough API as you would have with a Flask (Python) server
but I think I'm not enough for this task, especially not alone, and there are several bits and pieces (mostly the cryptographic parts) which I'm not comfortable with..
anyway, all of you in London, this could be interesting for you: meetup.com/Rust-London-User-Group/events/262999277
@PeterVaro Check Substrate out substrate.dev
Been fiddling a bit with it and it's quite interesting
@SomeGuy github.com/libp2p/rust-libp2p this looks fab
I haven't done any research on this -- so this problem might as well be solved by now
:)
16:55
All of this stuff is heavily under development right now, but what I've seen looks quite neat
(But I'm sure there's a lot to contribute, since it's open-source)
04:00 - 18:0019:00 - 20:00

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