@DenysSéguret Just one. Usually, no research is needed since IT services companies provide the clients, but they cannot find anything for Rust.
I'll work as a freelancer during ~2 years from now, but after that, I'll have no preference
That's because I accumulate the unemployment and my company gains. That's pretty much. If I take a permanent position, I will earn 3x less, and my wife won't like that :P
Without boats has recently mentioned on Twitter regarding how Rust devs are often overly conservative about breaking changes. It's true that consistency is required, but a crate might only ever be able to mature properly with such changes.
Found the tweet. It's also part of an interesting thread.
@DenysSéguret I don't really mind if they are stupid 0.1.1 and 0.2.0 is enough for me you lost patch numero but that not a big deal, they just limit semver feature
@E_net4isoutofcommentflags well without a boat and I agree, also there is some fight in this thread XD "Not at all. I think your tweet is shoehorning in a completely unrelated question in a passive aggressive way, a classic dumb nerd tactic I have no time for"
@Stargateur I like to think of v1 as an extra commitment to stability. If a dev ends up pushing a major release every month or so, then they'd have much rather stayed in 0.x.
@FrenchBoiethios Depends on experience (total and relevant). We are also early stage - we have closed our full round and have plenty of runway, but still being frugal and preferring equity instead of large salaries.
@Stargateur That's because (a) Cargo wouldn't allow multiple versions of the same package in a Cargo.toml until recently with renaming (b) people kept adding futures (0.2 / 0.3) and trying to use it with 0.1 and filing bugs
so they yanked 0.2 and 0.3, renamed it until things settled down.
Yes, it was confusing that people would do cargo add futures and it wouldn't work, which is why they renamed it. The people who know what they were doing can add -preview
the wtf versioning means that people generally won't use it unless they specifically want the absolute latest. I think this is the intent and I don't see a problem with that.
crates.io/crates/futurescrates.io/crates/futures-preview just look 0.2 of futures have been yank no idea why then if you look at futures preview you must add futures = "0.2.2" according to the doc, this is so wtf that their own doc didn't follow
@Stargateur "according to the doc" — because they have been working on writing the implementation of everything, they haven't worked on the documentation.
so when you dev something instead of increase major version you create a second crate where you dev, so we are expecting a futures-preview-preview for 0.4 ?
I think we have a range of people in mind: 1. A relative junior (say 1-6 years experience), who has shown they can learn quickly 2. More experienced dev (10+ years), with Rust or C++ experience 3. Someone with good working knowledge of bitcoin protocol (in Rust, Go, C/C++) 4. A front-end dev with experience with bitcoin protocol (processing & signing transactions, multisig, HDR etc.)
They released futures 0.3 which used the standard libraries Future, a completely incompatible release and required nightly. Everything broke because people just started adding "futures = 0.3". They didn't want to spend 15 minutes in a chat room explaining this issue to someone every single time, so they said "we will just release it as another name until we are done"
@Stargateur Normal, I don't know, but it's totally justified to avoid having to explain to everyone basics about semver while trying to actually experiment and innovate
I can't really have this argument / discussion now. I know that you enjoy arguing for arguing sake, and I don't actually know if you believe what you are saying. I've stated the facts and at each level you change your argument to something else minor. TTYL
IMO, there is not a big difference between someone who uses a technology since 10 years and someone who uses it since 30 years. That depends on the technology, of course, but the knowledge is asymptotic, if I may say.
speaking of which, this just arrived at this very minute, on the Rust London User Group:
> Hey Rust Community! Got a remote contract with a competitive rate looking for a Rust developer for an immediate start! please reach out to [email protected] if you're looking for work.
(I don't know anything about this, so no expectations whatsoever)
It really depends on the person. I saw amazing growth in knowledge in C++, when a single junior was dropped in to the cave of seniors. He picked up routines and knowledge so fast that it was amazing to watch.
So situation, personal interest and ability to learn, etc.
these are the contributing factors, not years.
(at least, this is how I see it, which might as well be wrong ofc.)
And personally I also think these levels are more likely reflecting responsibilities rather then knowledge
I really really don't care if the colleague I find is 18yo or 65. But I want him/her to to know how to build things and to know what happened recently in the dev world (if (s)he doesn't know any recent innovative language, I know he's not curious enough).
@DenysSéguret are you sure? I mean, it is cool to learn Go or Rust or Elixir or whathaveyou -- but as someone who is relatively new to the industry would surely pick a language to learn/master based on the jobs they could find with it
in which case, the old/ancient ones might have an advantage
(besides -- is Go really that interesting? or modern?)
(or knowing Angular or React makes you any better dev? I don't think so..)
@PeterVaro I agree. Some people like the technology they use, and they just don't bother to learn anything else. That doesn't mean that they are bad at their specific field
IMO people who understand how things are working and why they are working in a certain way (from binary, through assembly, to VHL) would be able to pick up anything in no time.
My experience is that people who were really good at picking the right technology for their next project didn't have their eyes closed to what was happening outside their office
And we always have to choose things (libs, design patterns, algos, structs, etc.)
@DenysSéguret I second that people who spend their free time on exploring new things, building side-projects, pushing their own limits further are more interesting people in general.
@PeterVaro When I was the manager I've always let people explore things during their work time. I didn't want people to work 60 hours per week in the wrong direction
@PeterVaro I don't know Angular, but I'd say "yes" for React, as it's going to be a lot of people's first experience with unidirectional UI flow and maybe even immutable values
@Shepmaster the vast majority of the people I worked with so far who are coming from JS background (and not going there from some other language) have outrageously limited understanding of proper abstractions, higher-level concepts, deeper understanding of the underlying system/machine, etc. React has ridiculously painful implications on our everyday web experience and we could only blame people who are blindly following the latest tech-trends and jumped immediately on this bandwagon
so, I still say no, I don't think React would make you better -- but you could gain one type of understanding (one possible solution) of one specific problem.
If a frontend developer would tell me during the interview, that actually they would prefer Svelte -- I would be amazed then.
@PeterVaro Thanks for sharing that. I like Elm, but I don't like the fact that it does a fully JS application. I'd like more HTML, just like Svelte does as far as I can see.
@Shepmaster I saw that with an offshore team that built part of our front-end. They clearly had tried to use OO patterns.
Lots of complaining about how our design decisions were slowing them down and making it hard to do their job (they were hired on the understanding that they knew React and RxJs). Obviously they delivered garbage.
@PeterHall I can see that with any misused technology, and treating React in an OO fashion would qualify. @PeterVaro's statement seemed broader than that, however.
@FrenchBoiethios No worries. That project may not be production ready (although it looks like it is) but the fact that 1. not using virtual DOM, 2. pushes most of the things at compile time (including converting native JS syntax into DOM updating actions), 3. feels native to the browser (which we could argue whether we should still have DOM, or the web as we know it in general in the first place -- but you get the idea :))
@Shepmaster wouldn't you call it horrible, if instead of using the already implemented, highly optimised stuff of a platform (let's say for the sake of argument, written in Rust), people would build the same thing, in a lot worth in Python and then would use that instead?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that every f*cking lifecycle event is called 50+ times before it finally has some sort of effect -- without actually no good reason?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that my monster power house machine could lag because I have 60 tabs open all of them using "the bleeding edge" frontend nonsense?
wouldn't you call it horrible, that every few month you have to update your application, not because it has bugs, but because one idiot decided that things should be a bit different than it was before?
@Stargateur don't even mention that -- I'm fighting with my tears.
the things that are happening today in the frontend world are horrible. it is all about reinventing the wheel in a ridiculously complicated and/or unoptimised way.
but OTOH I believe WE (yes, the entire IT community) should be focusing on rebuilding the internet, to be a personal, decentralised, safe, private, fast, etc. network of small apps
without DOM, without JS, without transpilers, without even servers, without surveillance, etc.
but I guess it is too much to ask for, 'cause everyone is so obsessed with the "bleeding edge"
A lot of what you seem to be saying is a combination of "We should do things the way we did 10-15 years ago" and "everyone should use things that are bleeding edge (WASM)"
yet, instead of coming together, and agree on something new -- everyone is happy patching it
@Shepmaster nah, I'm not saying that everything that is old is good. but I do think we solved these problems in the 80s maybe in the 90s.. and they are working -- otherwise we wouldn't have five-star desktop/mobile experiences
@PeterVaro It's often like that. The web used to be a big mess that lacked good abstractions, was unmaintainable, and hard to make fast. Step one is to combine years of experience to produce frameworks and tools that allow for high quality, useful, maintainable abstractions. We are currently in the next phase, which is to make those things fast.
The same concept happens in the small with our own code bases, right? The big-bang rewrite fails more often than not. If nothing else, the old thing continues development.
Pretend that you could devote 50% of all the people currently working on "the Internet" as a whole to make a brand new thing from scratch.
If it takes you 5 years to rewrite, then the other 50% have kept developing new things, and then you need another 2 years to mimic that functionality, while they have kept working....
I don't even get at what your anger is directed. Is it the build tools ? The protocols ? The web is a network, it survived because you can build every parts separately and you don't have to delete the existing ones to add new nodes, you don't have to build your web app the same way it was done by your neighbour
@DenysSéguret If they would wait for me, we would be in bigger trouble than we are in right now -- I never claimed I have a solution or that I would be able to come up with anything better. All I said was: I'm working in this segment of the industry long enough to see that we have a problem. No, that's not right. We ONLY HAVE PROBLEMS without meaningful solutions.
@PeterHall Why can't I see any "high quality, useful, maintainable" + "optimised" (don't forget, we supposed to be engineers) solutions then? What kind of next phase is this?
@Shepmaster My personal experience is 1. changing things could happen faster than you could imagine (think about new platforms, such as real-smart phones), 2. stop and say "guys, this is not working any more" is perfectly valid. you don't have to rewrite everything over night, 3. I get your point and I'm not saying that it is always easy, nor that it is feasible -- I've told you, I don't have a solution
@DenysSéguret it survived, because we haven't tried coming up anything better -- not because it is so great, or because it is working so well
As a pipe dream, maybe we replace C with Rust in most of the cases, keeping the limited C ABI. We also provide a richer Rust ABI (and maybe it's stabilized too). Then people can start using the Rust code directly, and we've "replaced C". Wait for the old code to die out, and we've "fixed" one piece
@Shepmaster I love, that we are connected. I love chatting here with you guys about this. Of course I do. And I learnt everything I know from the internet. That doesn't mean, it is working as it should. It's just that simple.
@PeterVaro We have only a few decades of life. We have to build, not just design. We have to build upon what's available, not start from scratch and aim for perfection. Or we'll have no occasion to apply our experience to another thing.
@PeterVaro I think that "haven't tried anything better" cannot possibly be correct. I imagine that lots of people have tried and failed, which is why I don't know about them
@SomeGuy how is that supposed to solve the burning issues with privacy? or stop engineers using a thing to another thing it was not supposed to be used for?
They do have some interesting projects for a more decentralized web, which IMO is a key part of helping with privacy
@PeterVaro There isn't going to be one solution for all of the community's problems, haha. If you can enlist enough problems, go ahead, and let's propose solutions and work together to make them happen
@SomeGuy I didn't think there would be one, never said that -- I was probably meaning something else for Web3 than you did, and I just wanted to reflect on the fact that the Web3 I heard of is not a solution for any of the current real world problems
perhaps you could provide us some definition and links?
@FrenchBoiethios usually relies on redefining what "server" means
e.g. "serverless" means many things: "you don't manage the server" (e.g. Heroku), you don't have to write "all the code" (e.g. AWS Lambda), "there's no centralized special machine" (e.g. P2P)
@PeterHall haha I work in the field, the problem of blockchain is that calculation cost more and more, we live in a limited word, we can't afford to suppose we have infinite ressource. Blockchain is good when you don't need to add data very often. The key of why bitcoin will never work long is that it's unusable because there is too many exchange between people. You can't use bitcoin for let say 10€ because that cost 20€ to valid a 10€ transfert, the energy that it's cost is too much.
blockchain could have some use but I still wait to see a good one
@Stargateur Without getting into a pointless argument... the specific IPFS based projects completely avoid all of that. e.g. Filecoin is proof-of-storage, not proof of work.
Please stop conflating bitcoin and blockchain. We can only hope Bitcoin will die, the fastest the best, but the blockchain technology might have good applications
like I said, maybe but I still wait for a good idea, one of the best I know was for art transaction, be able to trace every art transaction without doubt was good, as there are few transaction of this type (we don't add little one), the chain could have been ok to manage, every owner of art would want to verify the chain so there would have user etc. The big problem is how do you link an art with the virtual data...
there are plenty of solutions out there.. I was thinking about implementing a generic decentralised framework in Rust on top of which you could build any kind of application with a simple enough API as you would have with a Flask (Python) server
but I think I'm not enough for this task, especially not alone, and there are several bits and pieces (mostly the cryptographic parts) which I'm not comfortable with..