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12:05 AM
Can someone help? I'm super tired but I want to finish this one feature. I'm confused by a lifetime error I saw a dozen times before, but I can't figure out what's wrong :((
Part of the code.‌​.. whyyy.
 
12:19 AM
Oh wat... it's actually impossible? It's impossible to implement std::vec::IterMut without unsafe? Why didn't I know about that before? 0_o
 
haha
 
 
2 hours later…
1:52 AM
@LukasKalbertodt why are you implementing itermut
 
 
2 hours later…
3:55 AM
I hate isize name, this is really annoying that make usize redundant with this u. A size can't be negative... it's like yeah let's copy POSIX with ssize_t! yeah, now I can write: "I'm -1m tall"!
 
 
4 hours later…
7:48 AM
Thanks. My company forbid access to github, so this is complicated to search those pages :p — Boiethios 1 min ago
Oo
 
@Shepmaster itermut written like that sounds funny... like a iternut. I'm probably still sleepy. Anyway: I'm writing my own data structure, so I want a mutable iterator. On the bright side: yes, I'm using a Vec internally and just used/wrapped its iterator now.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:58 AM
I'm confused, what would IterMut allow you to do?
 
10:26 AM
@E_net4 Iterate over mutable references to the elements in my data structure?
 
10:39 AM
@LukasKalbertodt Ok... And I suppose it isn't based on Vec?
 
@E_net4 It is. Thus I was able to use the Vec iterator to implement my IterMut. Luckily ^_^
 
@LukasKalbertodt Ah, there you go! :D
 
But it is a bit surprising to me that I needed quite some hours to finish this rather simple library. Much of the time was spent writing documentation, but I thought I would finish it all in at most half the time I actually needed
 
@LukasKalbertodt Say all developers every single time! :P
 
@E_net4 Probably :D
 
 
1 hour later…
12:16 PM
H-hi
 
@KokaElKiwi Greetings!
 
12:27 PM
Welcome :)
 
12:40 PM
@Shepmaster Ok, I just tried this now. Alas, it performs worse than what I have right now.
 
@Stargateur I think that "size" should be read in a different manner. isize == "signed integer that is the same size as a pointer". usize is "unsigned ..."
 
of course I read all about the discussion about this but this is not obvious when you read "usize" :p
 
I don't like it but whatever we must live with that now
 
Hi @KokaElKiwi!
@Stargateur be glad you weren't around for the intpocalypse
 
12:44 PM
The only problem is that the core dev has decide without take care about the community.
 
@Stargateur sorry, but that's absolutely false
That's why there was the RFC
that's why just about everyone participated in it
@LukasKalbertodt I'd suggest adding to your docs how it's different from an arena
 
To be honest, as ugly as isize/usize is, it at least sparks curiosity, I dread what int/uint would have brought
 
It's pretty hard to think of benefits from having C's int type these days, isn't it?
 
@Stargateur when an OP adds an answer to their question, I usually leave a note telling them to move it to an answer. If they don't do it in a while, I edit it out and move it to a community wiki. Losing the answer completely reduces the value of SO
 
@Shepmaster this is not enough ? stackoverflow.com/questions/44369360/…
 
12:51 PM
I remember the intpocalypse <3
@Stargateur Wait what, actually the whole community was arguing about what would be the best name for replacement of int/uint ._.
 
what thestinger said. But I wasn't here I just saw this this morning
in 2014, the core team just close it.
in 2015, the discussion restart.
4 days after ^^
 
@Stargateur ah, linking to the revision. good call
@Stargateur The Stinger :-(((((((
 
look like the user is salty :p
 
The Stinger is... complicated. They were the stereotypical smart person with low interpersonal skills.
 
well i have an argument with some users recently so I'm not the best to judge this user :p
 
1:04 PM
Arguments are normal and happen where ever count(people) > 1
It's about how we handle them that matters
 
Personally I have arguments even when count(people) == 1 :/
 
Don't think I'm saying I'm perfect. Channel regulars can probably recount a number of times where I've raged against someone here on SO ;-)
 
@Shepmaster the cases I know of were quite enraging, but yea, we need to try harder. not my proudest moment. I was already writing an apology when it was closed xD
 
@oli_obk-ker "tagged A-musing"
That makes more sense
but it was changed
to "a-amusing"
 
1:15 PM
haha, that comment was from this year
lol
 
@oli_obk-ker Day 31: I have gained the linter's trust. Clippy still thinks I'm a format string.
 
mwhaha
 
1:28 PM
Hey, this one was pretty good! At least it could show up in the docs for emphasis.
 
@Shepmaster I just found how to made wiki answer I will do it after 24h if the Cheng-Chang Wu doesn't self answer his question.
 
@oli_obk-ker can you look at the source for that comment? (github.com/Manishearth/rust-clippy/issues/1706#issue-225111917) I want to know what formatting is on the error text
 
@E_net4 The docs use "âš " for that
 
@Shepmaster Where?
 
1:41 PM
@oli_obk-ker Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant I wanted to know what github formatter is being used for the code block in that comment ("warning: you probably are missing some parameter in your format string")
 
@Shepmaster it was ```rust
 
@oli_obk-ker huh. Wonder how it's red for a lot of that
 
no idea, I removed it
 
1:46 PM
@Shepmaster Ah, but it's not shown on method listings. doc.rust-lang.org/std/vec/struct.Vec.html#method.set_len
 
@oli_obk-ker This is this message where you was about apologies ?
 
No, the issue was closed before I pressed "send"
Now the internet will forever hat me or something ^^
 
dam, we will never know !
wait I think there are a misunderstood. My question was "is this message where you insult some body ?"
 
oh yea
 
this is light ^^
 
1:52 PM
@Stargateur that's already harsh coming from me ;)
 
@oli_obk-ker Hat!
 
2:12 PM
@E_net4 like a top hat, or a baseball cap
 
 
1 hour later…
3:27 PM
Pff, I can't believe that malloc thing escalated into that.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:15 PM
@E_net4 escalate how so
 
6:06 PM
@Shepmaster If someone had told me something about thestinger before, it would have made my life a little easier :P
The first (and pretty much only) time I actively participated in a RFC debate, I was pretty much only arguing with thestinger. And at one point I snapped. Also not my proudest moment :<
But I heard that thestinger left the community? At least I don't see them around anymore...
@Shepmaster Thanks for the feedback. Now I need to educate myself about what exactly an arena is :P Did you really read my docs? Thanks for that!
 
@LukasKalbertodt I skimmed. No guarantees I didn't miss anything
@LukasKalbertodt I think that they are still interested in Rust, perhaps have made their own fork?
 
@Shepmaster Mhhh maybe. But I haven't heard anything from them... oh well.
Did someone notice the SSO (small string optimization) debate a few months before the 1.0 release?
 
@LukasKalbertodt define "notice"
 
6:53 PM
@Shepmaster Uhm... dunno? Notice :P Like... you saw it at the time? I'm not sure :P
 
Small string optimization? That actually reminds me of some optimization in Java 9.
I forgot the details though.
Not that I care much anyway.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:31 PM
@LukasKalbertodt I recall the rfc being posted.
 
@E_net4 I don't understand too when I down vote I always say why, this not really important this is just one down vote the answer has something like 4 point. We can't be always agree together. But I don't like this go that way. i respect other opinion but I feel like other don't respect my opinion.
@Shepmaster this is about this answer stackoverflow.com/a/44672359/7076153 note that last - 1 comment has been delete.
you were two vs me, I can handle that but a third who insult me and your are upvoting each other...
I enjoy discuss but this was not.
 
8:53 PM
@Stargateur As a native English speaker, I wouldn't read "silly" as an insult.
 
as a non native speaker I didn't know detail :p
 
@Stargateur And upvoting is a means of saying "I agree with the points this person made"
 
the thing that really angry me is that he said why did you down vote, the op said that this answer help him. How could I know this when I down voted ?
 
@Stargateur Yep, that's a tricky thing with asynchronous communication. It's hard to tell what happened first.
I do agree that if the OP found it useful or not should not affect your voting.
So long as your reason for voting up or down is somewhat consistent and somewhat inline with the site's guidance, I think it's reasonable
 
I'd sure go with that too. Answers aren't just for the OP.
 
9:01 PM
no of course but answer should reflect as mush as possible to the question.
 
@Stargateur I'd phrase that as "the answer should attempt to speak at the same level as the question"
 
One has their right to state that using C to convey a similar explanation here would work, and that would be right.
 
And I think that many C programmers would understand C++'s std::string
 
I mostly didn't agree with the answer being off-topic or not an answer. Those are often clearly so.
 
I reading this question. I expect to see comparison with C. I would prefer that the answer said "you should not compare to malloc because ..." (that what the accepted answer do).
 
9:05 PM
Answer's can't actually be "off-topic", I'd say.
 
I didn't flag it as not an answer
I have one answer with something like +1/-5 I don't care :p
 
@Shepmaster About the arena vs. stable-vec thingy: I've never worked with an arena (at least not directly), so I'm not really sure. From quick searches I have the feeling that "arena" is not a strictly defined word. So... could you explain what you mean by arena? ^_^
 
is mostly what I'm thinking
 
Yeah I'm looking at that crate but I'm not really getting smarter :P
The docs aren't great...
 
so
that guarantees that each new value will be there until the whole arena is trashed
 
9:10 PM
@Shepmaster So, stable pointers basically?
 
So you can't move values out of it unless you're evacuating the entire arena?
 
yeah
 
How does it deal with OOM? Simply fail or allocate a new chunk of some kind?
 
you can't move values out at all
you only get &mut T
you can convert to a Vec<T> at the end I guess though
it allocates a new chunk
It's a Vec<Vec<T>> Under the hood, IIRC
so when you run out, it makes a vec, reserves space, pushes on the queue
but not really OOM, of course
rust doesn't handle that
the stdlib, really
You can't index the arena though
 
yeah ok, I was just too lazy, so I typed OOM :P You understood what I meant
 
9:13 PM
I've used arenas for making graphs
(shock! horror!)
because the lifetimes make it ok for throwaway graphs
 
So what are the advantages/disadvantages for using an arena and for using a stable-vec for graphs?
And you can't remove from an arena, right? Or at least not in this specific impl of an arena
 
arena guarantees the value is there, can't go get the index to have it fail
but you can't return the arena, as that would invalidate the lifetimes
 
@Shepmaster Sorry, I can't parse that sentence :/
 
...although I wonder if that magical crate could handle it....
 
@Shepmaster what crate are you talking about?
 
9:17 PM
@LukasKalbertodt with your crate and petgraph, you can say "gimme the thing at index X" and it will be like "nope, can't" because it's been deleted
if you can't delete from an arena, it will always be there (roll safe meme here)
 
@Shepmaster Wow, I actually thought of that crate when you said "magical crate" :P
 
XD
// invocation of satan here
magic rust macro code
 
So what can I say about arena vs. stable-vec ... mhh. Like "instead of refs stable-vec uses indices, and you can remove stuff before dropping the whole vec". Maybe. Mh.
And I don't want to publish a new version just to update docs :P
There are still quite a few methods to add. Shouldn't be too hard. I wonder if I should reach out to twir for the "help wanted" section...
 

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