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8:02 AM
nothing better to open two questions, downvote them both and vote to close for the same reason
 
8:12 AM
I'd argue that having good questions worth answering and upvoting is actually better ;)
But I guess that depends on one's mood XP
 
8:23 AM
Sarcasm is the use of words usually used to either mock or annoy someone, or for humorous purposes. Sarcasm may employ ambivalence, although it is not necessarily ironic. Most noticeable in spoken word, sarcasm is mainly distinguished by the inflection with which it is spoken and is largely context-dependent. == Etymology == The word comes from the Greek σαρκασμός (sarkasmós) which is taken from σαρκάζειν (sarkázein) meaning "to tear flesh, bite the lip in rage, sneer".It is first recorded in English in 1579, in an annotation to The Shepheardes Calender by Edmund Spenser: Tom piper, an ironicall...
 
@Stargateur Thanks for this, it is indeed a life changer, I did not know what sarcasm was for the first thirty something years of my life.
 
@PeterVaro that deep
 
So meta, ain't it? :)
 
8:37 AM
crypto is totally not a scam:
 
9:15 AM
@trentcl Your take on the completely unusable an illogical UI after the recent colouring changes in Signal? (The drama.)
 
 
1 hour later…
10:22 AM
@Stargateur I got the exact same one.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:59 AM
@PeterVaro I noticed it in the desktop version but my phone still has the old scheme, so I haven't really had time to process it. However... I'm compelled to agree, the change makes no sense
 
@trentcl I have it the other way around: desktop still old, mobile the latest. I really don't understand what they were thinking. And I really don't understand why they haven't reverted the changes back already.
 
standard UI design procedure: break everything first, then insist the new way is better
2
facebook really is a pioneer
actually I think slashdot might have prior art
 
The one I'm most upset about still is the reddit redesign.
 
@Jason but we can opt out, at least
 
reddit is so completely unusable on mobile. I don't really complain, because it serves to remind me that I spend too much time on reddit anyway
But I suspect that wasn't the intended result
 
12:05 PM
@DenysSéguret That's true. To my surprise they've kept old.reddit.com up longer than I thought they would, but that makes the redesign even stranger to me.
 
@trentcl As someone who used to be a graphic designer and designed plenty of UIs as well for almost a decade, I honestly cannot understand these new generation of designers: if something works, people like it, it serves its purpose, and full fills all the needs, then why the urge to change it just for the sake of it?
As if they have to justify their existence.
Or they think people are genuinely that thick: if something is new and shiny it must be better.
Or maybe they are just that thick themselves.
What bothers me the most here, is that this is a tool I use throughout the day, multiple times and it has insanely frustrating (design) issues, why not tackle those?
 
what baffles me is that reddit puts so much deliberate effort into making it impossible to use the web interface on mobile: certain subreddits don't work, you can't view long comment threads or NSFW tagged posts - and yet the official app, which supposedly they want you to use, is still barely usable
(at least it was last I tried it, which admittedly was a while back)
 
@trentcl I believe that is deliberate. They can track you much better inside a proprietary application.
(The same way as they want to force you to use their app with that pop-up that somehow always defaults to open the application (from a UX PoV))
 
@PeterVaro hah, like corporate executives do a "reorg" every two years so they can give themselves new titles while nothing changes
 
@trentcl Exactly like that.
 
12:11 PM
@PeterVaro I mean, I get that, but if they wanted me to use the official app they could have made it actually work
 
Oh, I may have misunderstood you, were you talking about the mobile app not the mobile web interface?
 
I switched back to using Firefox because the app was so slow and unreliable
they're both terrible
 
Haha
 
also, it's been what, 6 years? and some videos still just don't load
 
I'm no Reddit user, so I have no idea. I found the entire platform quite useless from a UX perspective when it first became a big thing. Not much changed since then, the core issues are still there.
 
12:13 PM
some bugs are just impossible to fix I guess /s
 
@trentcl RIIR
Jokes aside, I don't know why so many companies are unable to fix issues
and instead rolling out useless facelifts and features
I know doing so is cheaper.. but still.
 
I mean, reddit I understand. I don't like it, but advertising is their business model, they have to exploit users somehow
(even if I have technical issues with their app)
Signal though, I'm not sure I get it. They're donation-driven
 
Also, the wise words of one of my professors come to my mind (industrial designer): if you wish to achieve a very visible change that looks as if a lot has changed significantly and you wish to stay on the cheap side, just use paints.. lots of it!
@trentcl That.
 
@PeterVaro When you visit a plant and there are people busy painting the walls, you know the big boss or a minister is due to visit
 
@DenysSéguret I literally LOL'd, so true!
If you think about it, it makes perfect. After all, how would you define "paint"? A coloured liquid that is used to cover things on the surface. It is not far of a stretch to say: hide the cracks and problems visible on the surface by covering them, right?
 
12:33 PM
It's the simplest way to show you care without having to actually care
 
Exactly like that.
That's why at uni we actually differentiated between "styling" and actual "design"
 
(or more honestly, without having to really solve one of the real problems you can't actually solve)
 
The former is the paint job the latter is what matters though
 
can a minister visit my home ?
 
@DenysSéguret That's an interesting aspect now that I think about it. Should one ever cover the problems one is actually unable to solve in a product / solution, or in fact one should embrace it, and transparently show / talk about it. This is more of a philosophical questions IMO, rather than being a business driven decision or a question of personality or the matter of how much one cares.
 
12:40 PM
@Stargateur We had a president, before your birth, who was known to visit homes of random citizens
 
funny
 
(Hint: I have no answer for it, but if I have to choose, I would likely be transparent about it. That approach feels more straightforward and productive to me.)
 
@PeterVaro There's a very practical question: shall I annoy my big boss with problems he doesn't want to care about or should I find my way one level up so that those aren't my problems anymore ?
 
@DenysSéguret You are very good at this, I must admit ;) Politics has never been my strong suite, in fact I despise it, so I've never thought about career ladders or responsibilities in such a strategic way. Which is probably why I'm not at the top of any companies..
Still, you're suggestion is very practical, even though it does good for a single person only: one's own self.
 
Does it show that I really dislike the way the French aristocracy of big business works ?
 
12:50 PM
Yeah, you have a sober view on it. Is it that much different from the aristocracy and big businesses of the UK though?
 
Each country has its specificity. Ours is based on a mixed mafia of "grandes écoles" and inherited wealth - and a hidden rule that even if you come from the X or Ulm, you need to show you'll be exactly like the other ones
France is the developed country with the biggest proportion or heirs among millionaires
 
@DenysSéguret I'm not sure I followed you on this one..
 
(and it's not just billionaires but I don't have graphs ready)
 
I thought there was some deep meaning to that command @DenysSéguret :-)
 
a bad copy paste ^^
 
1:02 PM
@DenysSéguret I'm genuinely surprised UK is not on that list. My understanding is, that the wealthy families have the exact same ones as they used to be 4-500 years ago. Very little wealth-redistribution, wealth is mainly coming from properties, etc.
 
UK also imports a lot of foreign self made-men from dictatures or poor countries. This may have an impact
 
In that sense, I'm a communist: I wish we could stop this and each generation and each person would start with equal funds and possibilities.
@DenysSéguret ..and that contributes to a different class-structure and wealth-distribution in the UK how exactly?
(You could be right, I just don't understand what you meant by that)
 
I mean UK has less heirs among their billionaires because people who stole billions in other countries find a safe haven in UK
 
HAHAHA
Maybe, I'm not so sure about that :)
Besides, the real safe-haven for those kinds of people these days is Russia, isn't it?
 
Many of them in UK come from Russia. You don't want to be in Russia if you want to have some freedom
 
1:13 PM
@DenysSéguret I was immediately reminded of Mikhail Khodorkovsky. There was this film about him I think, I was wondering whether I wanted to watch it or not.
 
@DenysSéguret I think if you are wealthy enough and you don't mind supporting the father tsar form time to time, you could enjoy much more freedom than you would on the west. Practically speaking, there's nothing you cannot do.
 
And have a perpetual Damocles sword over your head ? Smart people who managed to grab a few billions in China, India, Africa, Russia, etc. would rather spend half and have a sane place for them and their kids
 
Maybe you're right, I really have no hands on experience in having billions and worrying about my life :D
 
@DenysSéguret apparently french government did a 49.3 without use a 49.3 using two two articles 95 al. 4-5 and 44 al. 3
what a nice day
 
Didn't look at the news. Will do
I don't like those kinds of question: stackoverflow.com/q/68020252/263525
This looks like a game more than anything. Shall we keep that ?
 
1:38 PM
Do you often use constructs like let counter = loop { ... ?
 
@DenysSéguret I do use them
 
@trentcl I don't think it is. The fact that each iteration of the loop is a new scope is the essence here
 
@trentcl I thought that unironically almost.
on a completely unrelated note, is there some website or book like "basic design guidelines 101 for web developpers who also need to design the visual aspect of the site" one of y'all could recommend?
 
you ask the wrong people
 
wait, all that talk about playground icon and not a single designer? pfffffff ;-)
 
2:20 PM
@PeterVaro is kind of a designer
 
yeah, I wanted to say, Peter, your website is gorgeous
 
and it's written he's a D E S I G N E R
so it's true
 
I Read It On The Internet™
 
I know judge a website, but not have a magical advice for all
 
@DenysSéguret Must be!
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier I really don't know where to start with. I was 10 years old when I designed an application (made in PowerPoint) for my Mom for Mother's Day. I did then, what I would recommend to you to do now, stole the aesthetics of applications I was familiar with (back then, that was Windows 95).
 
2:28 PM
that's pretty cool :)
 
But seriously, when you start learn coding, or playing an instrument, or designing a product or a website: you should learn all about the "objective" considerations, but the best you could do, is go through things that others did, steal from them, modify their work, and build patchworks
Otherwise, if you have enough time, I would start from the classics: learn typography, typesetting, etc.
Then move on to modern, dynamic media.
The truth is: you cannot rush these things and there are no shortcuts, you have to be dedicated, spend a lot of time on it, with most things being failures (especially when you're looking back at them when you levelled up) and that's it.
And the biggest secret is: find a mentor. Find someone, who is much, much better than you are, and willing to help you, train you, etc. (In the process you would steal from them, so be prepared to switch mentors regularly enough, because the more people you steal from, the more abstract your understanding will become and the more likely you will develop your own thing.)
Unfortunately we (human beings) have not come up with anything better than this.
Until we'll have those sharp, pointy needles that will go inside our brains. (I'm looking at you, Morpheus.)
 
Well, in the field of music, composers have stolen from each other a lot and I believe that have had a good effect on our music litterature
 
Indeed. There's nothing wrong with stealing, as long as you don't use it as-is and claiming it is your own.
 
This is valuable insight, thanks. I would not have considered typography as being a basics of design, however absurd that might sound :)
 
Think about, that's how you learn everything in life: you steal the words and phrases from your parents first.
That's how you learn to speak.
And then later on, you steal from your peers.
And then you build your own vocabulary and your style.
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Sadly, the vast majority of designed don't do that either: hence we're in this horrible cacophony of amateurishly designed sites and ads on the streets, in the telly, etc.
The amazing things about typography and typesetting is how human-centred it is! That's one of the greatest aspect IMO that's missing from the designs of today. Things should look good in a fancy 3D render, or on a brutally over-photoshopped advert, but they actually don't look good in your home, nor it is appealing to use. Or when it comes to graphic design: not legible, not understandable, not helping you in any kind of ways.
I believe typography and typesetting are amazing teachers on that front.
But -- don't believe me, my opinion is exactly just that: one, very subjective opinion.
 
2:41 PM
It seems to be kinda backed with experience, but ok, I'll try and see for myself :P
 
@PeterVaro *majority of designers
 
posted on June 17, 2021 by The Rust Release Team

The Rust team is happy to announce a new version of Rust, 1.53.0. Rust is a programming language that is empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software. If you have a previous version of Rust installed via rustup, getting Rust 1.53.0 is as easy as: rustup update stable If you don't have it already, you can get rustup from the appropriate page on our website, and check out the d

 
3:19 PM
I has installed the rustup update nightly because why not.
 
> As of this release, arrays implement IntoIterator with a small workaround to avoid breaking code. The compiler will continue to resolve array.into_iter() to (&array).into_iter(), as if the trait implementation does not exist. This only applies to the .into_iter() method call syntax, and does not affect any other syntax such as for e in [1, 2, 3], iter.zip([1, 2, 3]) or IntoIterator::into_iter([1, 2, 3]), which all compile fine.
I have no word for this stupid thing
 
I really don't understand why they didn't create a separate tool, that migrates those calls.
They are idiots, indeed.
 
I didn't say there were idiot, there are probably smarter than me
But I HATE this kind of exception
hopefully not present in 2021 edition
@PeterVaro this one is for you blog.rust-lang.org/2021/06/17/…
 
@Stargateur Fair enough, I was a bit hasty their. They certainly are not idiots, their behaviour is.
@Stargateur Yup, my hand unconsciously formed a fist ready to punch something..
*there
 
3:38 PM
I'm not quite sure what that entails however. Comes to mind that to support these characters in identifiers Rust will have extra gymnastics to do, possibly impacting performance?
 
no source code is already parse as utf8
 
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier There is no such single resource that I am aware of, considering how often accessibility is not part of the conversation around design.
 
ok. thanks all the same!
 
I'm thinking about it, but in some sense, web design isn't that different. You're still dealing with visual hierarchies, typography, and many other factors common in even print.
 
Well, at this point I've stumbled upon this blog webflow.com/blog/web-page-design
it might be very basic, but it's quite instructive for me
 
3:56 PM
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier I think that would help!
1 hour ago, by Peter Varo
The truth is: you cannot rush these things and there are no shortcuts, you have to be dedicated, spend a lot of time on it, with most things being failures (especially when you're looking back at them when you levelled up) and that's it.
That perfectly sums up my thoughts :p
 
 
1 hour later…
5:15 PM
humankind is nice to play
 
 
2 hours later…
7:35 PM
That's a lot of random tags
Why the "concurrency", "generics", and "self-reference" tags ? They don't seem relevant here. — Denys Séguret 59 secs ago
 
7:56 PM
Watching videos of people operate CNC machines is incredibly relaxing to me.
 
The making of physical things for a change is very satisfying for our poor brains. This feels more like a real achievement. That's why I love building furnitures. Or Legos.
(making furniture right now is also cool because I do it in the basement. Which is less hot)
 
@DenysSéguret Ha, yes. I have this gigantic box of Lego around from my childhood, but I was hoping to someday pass it on, if I ever end up having children.
I'd love to make furniture one day. That sounds lovely.
 
@Jason Building small engines with excited small humans is probably enough a reward for making kids.
 
@DenysSéguret I'd love that. Maybe someday :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:40 PM
@Stargateur Consider the options here. It was known for at least two years that adding IntoIterator for arrays would break tons of code. I've rarely seen a crater run reporting that many regressions. We tried very hard to fix lots of them by creating PRs for dozens of projects. For 1.5 years now, the Rust compiler warns about the code that would break. The compiler even suggests an automatic fix that is always 100% going to work.
But crater showed that still waaay too many crates were breaking, mainly because people were not updating their dependencies.
So what are the options then? Either not implementing IntoIterator at all (no, you cannot add an impl only in one edition) OR adding a hack that's literally only 40 changed lines (github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/…). I usually dislike these hacks, too, but by now I'm convinced this was the totally the right call.
@Stargateur It won't be. In 2021 [1].into_iter() will return the new, owned iterator. However, since rustc obviously continues to support older editions, the code that enables this exception will stay for the foreseeable future.
Oh and of those 40 changed lines, most things are just plumbing code. The actual exception is probably just 9 lines
 
10:16 PM
@LukasKalbertodt well, 1. if there was a 1.5 year grace period, and during that time people were unable to update their code, then their code should break, it is as simple as that, 2. I don't understand though, why a "migrator" tool could not be separately added, which would allow people to do the code-conversion automatically if they wish to continue to support the latest Rust version.
Both scenarios are much better than ANY lines of hacks IMO.
I believe this is a question of how you approach a problem by principle and not a matter of the amount of lines you change.
(This of course is my own opinion and take on the matter, and I could be very much wrong about this, thus I'm happy to hear why any of this is unacceptable..)
 
@PeterVaro (1) Sure, that's a valid opinion. But this would actually change the public's perception of Rust's stability quite a lot. Again, there were lots of projects that were breaking. And stability is a pretty important promise of Rust, that lots of production users rely on. But again, sure, one can have different opinions about where to draw the line in terms of stability.
Regarding the migrator tool: well, rustfix will include this. Probably already does. So you will be able to just fix all the code when transitioning from 2018 to 2021
@PeterVaro I mentioned the number of lines changed to show that this hack hardly adds any technical dept, which is what most people are afraid about when arguing against such things.
 

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