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8:58 AM
@SébastienRenauld Is that "normal" that Hyper uses the old future API?
Huh, that answers my question
 
;-)
There's a new hyper version with async/await but most people haven't switched to it yet
I'm confined to the old version because every place I use raw hyper on requires rust 1.32
 
What do you mean? At work?
 
And for hobbies/projects
the processor/SoC I tend to use doesn't have true atomic ops
 
why stay on 1.32 ?
 
9:13 AM
so I rely on a shim that was removed in the 1.32->1.33 cycle
 
Isn't that a bug ?
 
Might be, might not be
I thought it was such a small edge case it wasn't worth opening an issue
like, the processor I'm using is almost older than my gf
for the "newer" stuff I work in #[no_std] envs so not an issue
(The issue pops up when compiling std for that target)
 
I'd hate to be stuck in an older compiler version
 
the one we use at work is an even older variant of that
arch and CPU type is still the same, armv5/ARM926EJ-s
 
@SébastienRenauld That's like Chinese to me.
 
9:18 AM
it's literally not cost-effective for projects
 
Nope... Even Chinese makes more sense to me.
 
like, that SoC is in the 40eur range
why get that when you can get an STM32 for 1/10 of the price
its only advantage is that it is supported as a linux kernel target
and even then that's only true for 4.x
support was dropped for 5.x
 
You write some Rust at work? Wow.
 
I have 4 products where at least 50% of the device management part is done 99% in rust
 
What is the company?
 
9:20 AM
I'd say 100% but I have a thin C wrapper to extract the serial of an EEPROM
Oh believe me you don't want to work there ;-)
www.rfi-engineering.com
U-Router, S-Gateway, M-Gateway and L-Gateway are all essentially 100% rust
 
5 job applications received at rfi-engineering in the next minutes
 
Why are you imposed a hardware?
 
Don't get me started
I'm imposed dumb technical choices because some moron up top decides that reinventing the wheel is more fun
 
Ok, it's a kind of micro-management
I hate that shit
 
it's even worse
like, okay
latest example
 
9:22 AM
I love when you look at a product's doc and you see
> Archived content is no longer updated and is made available for historical reference only.
 
Imagine you have an entire ecosystem of devices out there that communicate with as physical layer RS485
and the layer3 stuff is done with modbus
you think "Hey, we don't need to build all that shit, let's use that"
The sales guy thinks "Hey, we can resell all that shit, let's use that"
and then the CEO, who tries to do the hardware as well, goes "Fuck you guys, RS485 can be broken if the wires get set up incorrectly, we're using Sympol"
up until that point I had never heard of a single product using sympol as an actual thing
I thought it was 100% PoC from TI
turns out it is 100% PoC from TI
;-)
there is no Sympol HAL in the linux kernel
there is no Sympol code support anywhere
so I'd have to write the entire thing from the ground up, through the linux kernel and up into the management daemon
all this because somebody wanted to play with something new and exciting
 
Is it opensource tho?
 
Nope
Modbus is
Modbus is royalty-free and open
 
Well if the guy wants to throw money through the windows, that's up to him.
 
RS485 is so old it almost could check in at the national history museum
 
9:26 AM
You're paid for that, right? Let it be
 
nah, I'm on the way out
I'm not even an embedded software dev at heart
I want to go back to large-scale data analysis
Plus, with 4 years of rust in production under my belt I can probably at least suggest it at the next company ;-)
 
@SébastienRenauld Hum, don't be too sure of that
 
One of the companies I'm slowly building towards applying for already uses rust, partly
Discord
 
Really? I didn't know
 
they use it for a couple of things where they could get 1000% perf improvements by replacing their elixir impls with rust
not sure if FFI or full service
I'm almost tempted to PR them to split the elixir bridge and the lib
 
 
5 hours later…
2:29 PM
@Shepmaster It's not clear to me how you can solve this problem. Can you explicitly say the lifetime of the arg is different from the one of the returned impl?
I understand the compiler is at fault here but is there a workaround ?
 
@DenysSéguret did you read the linked GH issue? It contains workarounds.
I don't know if the workarounds require unstable features tho
IIRC from before, no it's not solvable
 
2:45 PM
@PeterHall I don't know what you are talking about
;-)
 
@Shepmaster ninja comment delete!
 
Before you even commented
@PeterHall how can the error occur without #[post]; that's where the error points at...
 
Same error
I have never tried to use borrowed values with actix-web
 
So HR decided that the "Rust" requirement I precised for the hire I request is "unrealistic". I can't require "Rust"...
 
@PeterHall for a second, I thought you were saying actix web was in the playground. I was flabbergasted.
 
2:49 PM
no, i just pasted it there
 
Right, I got that after a second
 
I feel like 'a and 'b should be inferred to be 'de
 
@DenysSéguret :'(
 
and that should work
 
@DenysSéguret That can be mandatory, but that can also be something like "would agree to use Rust"
 
2:52 PM
poof
 
☁️@E_net4☁️
 
@PeterHall I still assume that the actix definition is incorrect
i.e. should be a HRTB (or not, depending on what it is now)
 
@Shepmaster I think it might be limited to 'static
 
basically, dtolnay >>> actixfolk
 
HRTB don't make sense here
I think I can answer this, just need to check a couple more things
 
3:12 PM
Oh, I was beaten to it
 
Check faster next time, I guess?
 
@DenysSéguret I meet someone and say "well, I search in rust" he laugh :p
but at least he know about it ^^
 
@DenysSéguret specify rust or go or c with rust as preferable
that got past my HR last time
the go part is 90% irrelevant but for some reason go is more popular
 
Requiring Rust is not practical
 
depends on the exact job position ;-)
 
3:22 PM
Hire smart people who know C++
or something functional
our team has a mix and people learn from each other
 
same
BTW, got approached for a job amounting to QA because they need somebody dedicated to code reviews
told them that's not how you build a team
 
If someone knows 4-5 languages, that are very different from each other, and they are impressive in 2 of them, then they can be productive in Rust quite quickly
 
can you ask a counter requirement ?
like "do not know go"
 
why not?
some of the best devs I know are proficient in go
 
a lot of Rust problems arise from bad design decisions early on. So having a few people who know Rust, helping the newbies plan their work, makes a huge difference
 
3:26 PM
that, definitely
rust isn't a language like JS where you just throw shit together
 
Stargateur is being a Rust Zealot
 
you definitely pay the price in choosing the wrong abstraction or structure
 
One of our juniors ran into his first lifetime issue after more than 2 months
Partly because we mostly work with small Copy messages, and the architecture is all in place - he only had to plug in new features into existing structure
 
oh man
the alpine question
"didn't know it used musl"
 
3:31 PM
@PeterHall correction: claims to know C++
 
@PeterVaro Why?
Because nobody actually knows C++?
 
because I haven't met anyone who actually does
 
C++ is unknowable
Someone who can spot the use-after-free in a 100 line program
 
Depends on your definition of know
@PeterHall you've seen the code backdoor competitions, yeah?
 
they just need the RAII mindset, which is a head start
@SébastienRenauld no
 
3:33 PM
let me see if I can find it back
the task was something along the lines of "program does X. Make sure it has an use-after-free that looks like it's an accident"
the best challenge was 2014
 
@PeterHall you call me ? :p
but a function with +100 lines is a NOPE
 
@Stargateur I said program
 
@SébastienRenauld haha look fun I will take a look
 
the 2014 entry happened at the same time as the whole NSA stuff, and has the same idea
exfiltrate the presence of a check through a side-channel of some sort while making it look genuine
 
@SébastienRenauld "this year" ... "2016" :/
 
3:43 PM
Yeah, RIP
fun stuff like that doesn't tend to last long
it either gets taken down, doesn't get enough views, or the NSA recruits all the winners
;-)
 
@PeterHall Actually a few people know it. There are super rare and are called "language lawyer". They dedicate they entire life to reach this level.
 
excuse me
they all buggered off to haskell
 
4:37 PM
Hmm
My "friend" Acorn decided to change the tag excerpt
thoughts?
 
I see no problem
 
@Shepmaster Do we actually agree with all that was introduced there?
 
I'm not sure
I think at a high level I agree with the concepts, but know they won't work.
(a) people don't read that text so does it really matter
(b) people will add or not add tags according to their own whims
Beyond the tag stuff, I have a sense of "who does this person think they are that they get to describe Rust for everyone?"
but tag wikis & excerpts have always said not to copy text from official sites (which always surprised me)
 
4:55 PM
Not a fan of the new version
 
"X is a programming language without Y" is often not the nicest way of phrasing it.
 
that + the "systems programming" language
Go fell into the same PR trap and paid the price
 
5:15 PM
I agree that the old version was better, in fact. I've read it too fast and it's clearly better to avoid "systems programming" while "without GC" isn't without trap either
 
[cv-plz] stackoverflow.com/questions/57978995/… — I picked "typo" as there's no "I didn't read the error message" close reason.
 
I picked "unclear what you're asking"
 
> I would guess someone could write a macro that writes out

if a {
b
} else {
c
}
seems like any such macro would be more verbose
I guess...
t! { a ? b : c }
oh, no. Both ? and : already have meaning
 
6:12 PM
Is Rust more or less verbose than Java ? With experience in Java and some knowledge of Rust I tend to think that a clean and efficient Java program is longer than a Rust one and sure feels more verbose.
(but writing that as comment of a question wouldn't be constructive)
 
@DenysSéguret I debated adding my own comment.
I think that Rust is less verbose than Java, if only purely because of type inference.
though I guess var helps with that now
 
When starting it feels more administrative than java because of all the things you have to specify with lifetimes and mutability.
(that's what made me wait a few years before trying it)
 
@DenysSéguret I think it's also a matter of perception. You can avoid lifetimes for a long time (example) and mutability can in many ways be dealt with by doing as the compiler tells you.
 
but they are also aspects that act as boogeymen to people who haven't experienced them
 
6:24 PM
My first program ( github.com/Canop/resc ) has no lifetime. I didn't have the issue.
 
@DenysSéguret without reviewing the code deeply, I bet there's somewhere that could have used references to gain some performance, but it wasn't needed.
well, there I go conflating lifetimes and references again
 
@Shepmaster Unsure. I'll probably have a deep look at it the day it goes into production and I have to fix for the unexpected, but it's also possible that was one of those problems which doesn't really need explicit lifetimes
 
You can use references without needing explicit lifetimes
 
there are references, sure
The "How can I create a mutex variable?" question probably comes after a lot of research
 
6:42 PM
@DenysSéguret I'm always curious about the "send X to a function" terminology
 
In this case it's a different thread. It might be a shortcut for "send this message to the other agent"
 
@DenysSéguret I just assumed it was a non-English phrasing
Just the concept of sending something to a function, if followed all the way, indicates that a function is a reified concept
(which I doubt this poster means)
 
That's why I made the hypothesis that the res behind the function was a thread/agent
but I can't exclude that OP is like most of us just somebody who don't master the English language...
I engaged in several hours of work just to try finding the best locations to cut the long statuses of broot so that they fit in the console's width and are still clear...
(it's the night here, I'm free to do silly things)
 
@DenysSéguret have you considered using multiple lines :-)
 
@Shepmaster Yes I had considered it. But I'll first see if the smart solution works in practice
Unrelated: do you too see the notifications of JS room kicks or is it limited to people of that room ?
 
7:14 PM
@DenysSéguret I've not seen such
 
ok, so it's because I'm an owner of the JS room, then. Thanks
 
There might be a way to emulate this issue using only Rust's arrays but I don't have the knowledge to do so.
Doubt
 

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