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12:25 AM
@SShah I don't have experience with those, and it's offtopic to this room/tag, but see Transfer custom (all) metadata using ffmpeg, SO and maybe SuperUser. Else, post your own question on SO. Specify examples of which meta-tags it drops. Useful if you can pick a freely-available example video.
 
1:12 AM
Hi folks! Not directly Python-related, but I haven't seen any machine learning-related rooms, so: is there any way to decode a sentence embedding (I wrote a question here a few months ago about this)? Specifically, I'm trying to decode a sentence embedding that's interpolated between others (with Huggingface Transformers). Thanks!
 
1:27 AM
Apologies @Aran-Fey and @smci, thank you and sorry for the late reply, so after it finishes conversions many of the date related tags are set to the current date and for videos that are recorded as portrait, the output file converts them back to landscape. There were other tags missing such as geo tags, but I managed to get those to update with exiftool
 
@SShah Are you saying exiftool exports meta-tags more reliably than ffmpeg, or that you had to use both together?
 
@smci Also yes I understand this is off topic, its just neither stack overflow nor superuser have chat rooms related to FFMPEG or EXIFTOOL, I have exhaustedly searched for a solution, especially to try resolving the video orientation issue which switches portrait to landscape, but cant find any resolution.
@smci So if you see my command I set ffmpeg to copy over metatags, but that didnt copy over/ update all metatags, so I tried to use exiftool after to update the remaining.
 
Ok dude. Suggest you should post and self-answer your own question here on SO, to share that wisdom with others. It's really not my thing. Good luck
 
I see thanks, honestly my issue hasnt been resolved but yes I think a question with example outputs may help, I am just not sure whats the right portal to post a question at for my particular issue as its FFMPEG and exiftool related would you suggest I post in SO or SU or some other portal?
 
 
5 hours later…
6:32 AM
@SShah The first thing to do would be to check whether there are existing tags for these topics on Stack Overflow. I suspect there are
@jmindel Questions like this are fine as it's about a python library and, indeed, there are no specific rooms that fit better. That said, I don't think we have any people with a lot of NLP experience so you might be out of luck, sorry. But we'll see
@SShah Indeed, there is at least one
 
@roganjosh It was not. I mean, we were all in favor of it, but it was not "pushed through" by mods. Stack Exchange staff were all universally in favor of the ban and were encouraging us every step of the way, even recommending/endorsing a "suspend on first offense" approach, which is not how we typically do things.
We'd checked in with them multiple times since November/December 2022, and they never wavered in their endorsement of how we were handling the situation. So that's why what was announced on May 29 was such a shock.
 
Interesting. In that case, the new state of affairs is even more baffling to me
 
@PM2Ring This is, of course, correct; staff demurred on establishing a network-wide policy, but they were right there with SO mods from the beginning in establishing and supporting a total ban on it for SO.
And even though they refused to establish a network-wide policy, they were always very supportive of sites that decided to ban it on their own, following the SO model. So it's not like they were OK with it elsewhere.
For what it's worth, they've continued to tell us, even after this new policy was announced, that they support a ban of ChatGPT usage across the network. So, yes, baffling, indeed, for them to effectively take away any way we have to reasonably enforce such a ban.
 
Given what I'm seeing at the company I'm at now, I wouldn't be surprised if this was strong investor pressure. The general mood seems to be "We need to do something with this technology" but they haven't got the slightest idea what that is atm
 
6:48 AM
Yes, that's likely. What they're claiming, however, is that the ban isn't directly motivated by concerns about AI being the bee's knees, but rather concerns about false positives in the enforcement (which they have not been able to substantiate even one and are just generally claiming that there must be because (A) there's no way to prove it incontrovertibly and (B) the scale), which is theorized to be affecting certain key metrics.
A lot of the claims don't fit together, and we feel like we're not only not understanding the policy, but not understanding their true motivation, so we cannot work with them to come up with a reasonable compromise solution, even if they would deign to give us the opportunity.
 
Yeah, I saw your very reasoned answer about that part and it's ridiculous. I have signed the petition, I was just curious about the lead up to this particular flip-flop
 
That is the part I cannot begin to explain or even speculate about, because I don't have any theories that make sense.
 
I suspect it just doesn't make sense, even to them. I have actually been using the ChatGPT ban quite a bit as a counter-argument to guff that's permeating on LinkedIn. That's a real tension - "history will put us on the wrong side of this curve" and "you're saying we can every Joe Bloggs generating content for free? Cha-ching" whilst knowing full-well that it's a rot in its current state and outright support for it will be deeply unpopular with veterans. Cue - strategic ambiguity
 
7:12 AM
My ongoing experience with it has increasingly soured me on the whole concept of LLMs. I mean, there are just so many gullible idiots who think it's an oracle... I'm at the point where I honestly think that it's a tangible social evil.
Which, yes, runs the risk of me being labeled a neo-Luddite or whatever.
 
I don't care, I'm fully in that camp with you
 
To be clear, I'm not opposed to AI. It's also potentially dangerous, and needs to be used carefully, but there are tons of valuable, socially-beneficial uses for it. LLMs? Not so much. About the only use is literally for really convincing/engaging chatbots, and... I don't think we need that.
Every time I get emails or otherwise see things like this, I can't decide if it makes me angry or want to cry. I mean, seriously? Auto-generated emails? So, now, on top of all the time I already spend in a day dealing with legitimate emails, borderline emails, and outright spam, I now have to deal with the fact that the seemingly-legitimate emails that I'm reading might not even have been written by a real person?
I value authenticity and integrity. I don't want a bunch of BS.
Like, look at the example they give in the video there. The prompt is to write an email to invite the marketing team to a meeting, with the only legitimate detail being the start time. It generates this whole email that contains seemingly-legitimate content, including a list of bullet points of the planned topics, but all of that is completely made up. I'm going to take that at face value if I were to get that email, and that thought just pisses me off.
 
The only thing I've considered using it for is bootstrapping a test suite. I haven't actually tried it, but it would be nice if it got me ~80% through coverage and I could just tidy it up but I would go into that knowing how broken it could be. Unfortunately, we're seeing that an alarming proportion of the population doesn't have even basic critical faculties and will instead trumpet about how I need to be using this in my every day experience
 
I mean, for generating something "better" than Lorem Ipsum, it'd probably be great...
But if you mean generating actual code that results in 80% coverage of a test suite... meh. The only thing I can think of to say in response to all these people who say that LLMs can do a lot of the heavy lifting in getting started writing code is that they just have way too much boilerplate required by their tools.
 
Maybe. I'm not famed for writing full test suites, though, so it might be an improvement over my baseline. Other than that, I just will not surrender my code over to an LLM. As you point out, that meeting email is basically hallucinated with the agenda. Anyone relying on that... I'll try not be unkind.
 
7:25 AM
The thing is, SE staff is right about one thing: accurately detecting AI-generated content is difficult. When we're doing it on SO, we have a lot of additional context to draw upon, which makes it easier, but it's still honestly difficult and takes a lot of time. When I read an email from someone, I don't have all that context. I don't know whether they wrote it, or whether it's generated.
 
Oh, for sure. By "relying on that" I mean the person using AI to write an agenda. Absolutely you wouldn't know if the email was written by a human or not in this case and you would be right to take it on face value.
 
But think of how many people you know who are incredibly ineffective communicators. They have a huge incentive to use "tools" like this.
And you know how humans love to take shortcuts, instead of working on improving their weaknesses.
 
I have an ironic anecdote for this one. I don't think you were in the room when all my imports were blowing up but I later found out that it's because I was curating AI-generated code, which I didn't know at the time. With time pressures I had no choice but to wrap the whole thing in a grotesque try/except. It was a colleague writing the code and his plugin automatically wrote the comment "trying to fix circular imports". It was quite impressive and I could see the draw there.
If only similar tools hadn't led to the point that we had such shambolic code
 
This is why I think the existence of the tools is harmful.
 
8:05 AM
@CodyGray I'm on a similar stance as you on this, but I feel like it's not really the tools themselves that are really at fault, but how people are perceiving it. I think I already said this many times, but the real problem is the fact people are over-glorifying it, and marketing it to the moon
 
If you're trying to convince me that people are the problem, then you won't have a very hard sell. They usually are.
Unfortunately, they're all we've got, so if a tool is doing fundamental harm because almost everyone is using it incorrectly, then I tend to look for ways of stopping the tool from doing this harm.
"Guns don't kill people, people do" blah blah blah
 
@CodyGray that's true
@CodyGray I guess that's fair
 
Using LLMs to "fix" deficiencies as communicators is something we've recently encountered in teaching as well. "Explain this thing" usually is a good way to teach oneself about "this thing" and to reflect whether one grokked it or not. Using LLMs means people cheat themselves out of this without even realising it.
Kinda fits into roganjosh's experience of folks not realising what drivel they put together using LLMs...
 
This is just an extension of the silliness we've had for a while, with £1000 Data Science courses being reduced to £9 that promise to get you a career in 7 days or something. They sell because people are willing to believe that there's an easy path and now you can just surrender to a machine
 
8:23 AM
The academia question is a really tough one. My lecture attendance was ~10% so I was constantly in trouble but I generally just needed to find out what the base textbooks were and... they accidentally fell off the back of a truck full of internets. But even with my shortcutting there, my intention would never have been to have something else answering for me. If that's a motivation for people, you just won't break that
 
And thus we get into the accusations of geographic bias...
 
8:42 AM
I think that's an un-winnable debate these days. It's just a minefield to try get through, even though, just on objective population numbers alone, there could be something to say. That argument plays well into "strategic ambiguity" because it's almost impossible to defend against such accusations in a fair and frank discussion without upsetting people in a bad way.
 
8:57 AM
YouTube has a neat new trick for me. It plays the same advert multiple times a day, but sometimes it's skippable and sometimes it's not. It's tricking me into jumping to that tab to skip it but instead I now hang around waiting for it to end because there's no skip option. Tricksy hobbitses
 
@roganjosh yeah, that thing has been happening sporadically for the past 3 years for me
they admitted to make "experiment" on certain countries, randomly, for "longer ads" and things like that
 
I've had it before, but they seem to be going hard on it now. I don't know whether they collect my screen time, so I try change tabs again ASAP once I see I can't skip it
 
btw, I'm guessing you stopped using an adblock given what you said here and what you once said last time (about ads on a website I think)
 
I never installed it if I'm honest. I changed laptops and forgot
 
that's fair
I sometimes go without an adblock myself when I'm testing stuff on another Linux installation and don't bother installing
but on my personal/work one, I always have one installed (at least on my main browser)
 
9:00 AM
@NordineLotfi GEOGRAPHIC DISCRIMINATION!!!!111one
 
haha, yeah but it's fine if they do it because "it's a large company" ;)
 
It's actually quite fun to see the tactic in action. I immediately recognise the backing track of the advert and have a mental map of things I can or cannot skip. But tricking me with "oh, I can skip this one" making me jump to the tab, only to have it unskippable definitely gets their "viewed" time up
 
9:32 AM
I also heard that some countries are tested for a new anti adblock popup. I guess they're doing this so people pay the premium subscription. It's a bit weird they're only doing this now, especially when you know that Google have reportedly paid some Adblock company money to prevent their ads from being blocked.
 
I have to be honest, they've got me very close to paying for a subscription
I can't work without background noise, constantly. And their tactics really do wear me down when it's the same advert every 10 minutes for weeks on end
 
9:48 AM
Blatant ChatGPT copy-paste in this answer stackoverflow.com/a/76399699
insulting thing is that it isn't even in contrib as per this search
 
@roganjosh Why don't you just subscribe to a streaming radio service?
 
Fair point. Youtube used to be a fire-and-forget but I probably just need to find something else
@metatoaster I don't think it's going to get much traction for moderation right now
 
Yeah, I'd think a dedicated music streaming platform would be far more effective as fire-and-forget, with even less nonsense.
 
it's rather annoying how we the users now have to do this in the adhoc way
 
Imagine how annoying it is for the mods.
 
10:04 AM
I do not envy what the mods do
33
Q: How can I report an answer generated by ChatGPT?

Adamu_Dee_AzareI have a question about my Stack Overflow post: Implementing Name Synchronization and Money Transfers in Transactions Model with Account Number Input There isn't any report icon on the answer I received from someone on Stack Overflow. The answer is not correct and I want to report it, but I can't.

relevant meta thread lol
 
There are lots of threads. Have you seen the petition pinned to the starboard here?
 
> Well, that answer has been deleted by 'ordinary' Stack Overflow members. The Company haven't yet told us that we can't do that.
> posting on meta and letting the meta effect deal with it seems effective (though it's gonna scale horribly)
those are some hilarious comments
and yeah, time to strike
I missed the part "effective immediately"
 
@metatoaster You can't. Trying to do it anyway is just going to frustrate you and send the wrong message to everyone else.
 
I mean the site is going to die I don't care lol
 
If there ever was a time to demonstrate the impact of moderation and curation on SE/SO, this is it.
 
10:18 AM
Time to set everything on fire, strikes are supposed to be disruptive
 
Something I think worth keeping in mind - this isn't going away. Short-term actions in relation to SO are important in the now but thinking people also need to come up with some approach to all this going forwards
It's not just SO, it's in companies and going straight into codebases
 
who knew Terminator is actually a text-generative algorithm mascaraed as a chat bot?
 
I've now got a hilarious mental image of Terminator turning up and explaining ORMs to me
3
 
it's definitely artificial, but not intelligent
 
10:28 AM
How about when the question might be chatgpt? stackoverflow.com/questions/76399909/…
 
haha, well I've seen those too
 
Those are and always have been forbidden by the blanket ban.
 
"hey guyz i got this codez fomr soemwehre pls maek it wrok 4 me thx
the thing that ticks me off the most about all this ChatGPT is, I've programmed a chat bot ages back using markov chains - using the second-order markov, I saw how text generative models can occasionally emulate intelligence but at the end of the day it's just text generation from some input, and that experience somehow made me immune to being amazed at what anything ChatGPT does
so many of my friends were so amazed at Linux being emulated but I was like yeah if there's a big enough corpus and a good enough model something like this can be hallucinated out of thin air, but the output is anything but amazing
 
Yeah, agree. It's not amazing or surprising at all that you can establish a probability matrix for what word normally follows from a previous word or group of words, based on a corpus of English text, and then use that to generate plausible-sounding English text.
 
exactly.
I may have fallen into the hype if I didn't build that chatbot
 
10:34 AM
Of course it can emulate a Linux terminal. It has been trained on a ton of output from Linux terminals.
 
another friend of mine explained it as "putting the googly eyes on the robot" effect
put some googly eyes on the Roomba, someones else kicks it, suddenly people feel emotions
OpenAI has put some damn good googly eyes for ChatGPT (via the UI)
 
@metatoaster Sorry, no, this is objectively brilliant. I'll have no disparaging words against goggly eyes here
 
NICE THE KILLER ROBOTS
THOSE ROBOTS CAN'T HURT YOU
anyway, to summarize: this is not the dystopian future I signed up for, the one I imagined was not this unimaginative generative horse feces
 
@roganjosh Why is TikTok on my YouTube?
 
I just yt-dlp video links so I don't see the UI so I couldn't even tell it was even on YouTube
 
10:39 AM
What is that?
 
It's an infiltration but I fear there will be "GEOGRAPHIC DISCRIMINATION!!!!111one" to mention it
 
some Python library that extracts the video embeds from website
 
(I actually don't believe that. I don't know how Tiktok ended up on Youtube)
 
the same reason we ended up with chatgpt: capitalism
 
10:41 AM
content creators just cross posts their own (or plagiarise, heh) to other sites
yeah, capitalism needs to be transitioned to the stage Marx wanted
 
@CodyGray Right. People like that don't need their AI tools to have actual intelligence. The tool just needs to appear to have better communication skills than they do. ;) As I said in meta.stackexchange.com/questions/388401/… "many people are mistaking its language competence as general intelligence". Also:
@VLAZ Sure. Using GPT to actually answer technical questions is madness. It'd be safer to get financial advice from the Wolf of Wall Street. ;) And if I were a programming teacher, I'd forbid my students from looking at the code it regurgitates. I learned to be a good coder by studying the code of excellent programmers. ChatGPT has read a lot of code, both good and bad, but since it doesn't really know what it's doing, we have to classify its behaviour as cargo-cult coding. — PM 2Ring Apr 18 at 7:30
 
also yeah, ChatGPT is the Jacquard looms of our day.
\> And if I were a programming teacher, I'd forbid my students from looking at the code it regurgitates.
THIS
 
@PM2Ring Just like people mistake my language competence as general intelligence. :-)
 
but really, ChatGPT ruins a human's ability to comprehend or learn anything
 
10:44 AM
It's not a coincidence that many of the biggest GPT fans on SO are poor communicators &/or cargo-cult coders...
 
@metatoaster If I were ... I'd forbid ... looking at the code it regurgitates. (FTFY)
 
I'd forbid anything from looking at anything ChatGPT generates is what I actually wish for
 
What I'm curious about, @PM2Ring, is what beneficial uses you're alluding to in that comment?
 
Practicing English
Even grading English language exams perhaps
 
the biggest problem is always the training dataset, we have NO way of knowing what OpenAI did
if the user has control over the datasets they feed into the blackbox then maybe, but this is not what ChatGPT provides
 
10:49 AM
@CodyGray Eg, using it as a souped-up spelling & gramnar checker. Letting it polish and rephrase text that you primarily create. But instead, people are giving GPT a prompt, letting it be the primary creator, and then manually tweaking the output to make it less obvious that GPT did most of the work.
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Yuk!
@PM2Ring I'm super uncomfortable with this, to be honest, but it's based on instinct, not on actual experience. (I've never actually tried it, because I don't want to disclose all the information to OpenAI that they want to try their toy.) Specifically, I don't know it would guarantee that it would stick only with the text that I submitted, only rephrasing that, without introducing new stuff or otherwise changing the meaning.
 
@metatoaster Yes, higher quality training data would be beneficial, but even if you trained a GPT on perfect squeaky-clean training data it would still hallucinate nonsense, due to how the GPT process works.
 
@PM2Ring yeah, but at the very least the user's involvement would do away a lot of the social issues that go into it, I very much am with you on this point you raised, I've pointed this out before also
 
@CodyGray Well sure, you have to know what you're doing, so you can tell if ChatGPT has changed what you're trying to say. That makes it particularly dangerous if you have poor English skills and you're using it to polish you're text. (I mentioned that on MSO, somewhere).
GPT can be a useful co-pilot, but you can't let it be the main driver & navigator.
 
Yeah, so... If you don't have poor English skills, why would you want to use it to polish your text?
To use your analogy, if I already know where I'm going, why do I need to use a co-pilot? What benefit does that add for me?
And, if I don't know where I'm going, what good does it do me to have a co-pilot who doesn't know, either?
 
11:04 AM
basically, things like ChatGPT has no place in most places
 
@metatoaster I never built one and yet I never fell in to the hype. More than a year ago, I got insulted on the Tavern of the meta for saying something similar such as "AI is just statistics" or something like that
 
Haha, I guess I probably wouldn't have fallen for the hype either had I not wrote the chatbot then
 
I guess you were insulted because there's no real statistics involved? :-)
One thing that really helps avoid falling for hype is critical-thinking abilities.
 
@CodyGray I mean, there was. I recall there was a conversation for using "AI" for describing images for blind/impaired people on SO/SE. I went and said a lot of things, but the only sentence someone thought of taking into account (and took out of context) was that single sentence.
@CodyGray I guess I got those already (thankfully)
 
Have you watched blind people code? There are plenty of videos on youtube
 
11:08 AM
Quantum Computing expert Scott Aaronson has spent a year doing non-quantum stuff for OpenAI, working on AI alignment. He's posted some interesting articles related to GPT on his blog, and the comment threads on his blog are usually pretty good. scottaaronson.blog
 
I wouldn't think that would be very interesting. Blind people could code just like you and me can...
 
Their skills are insane. I don't know how they do it. I can't see AI helping out here because they're already super-human
 
@roganjosh I know, I never doubted that
 
Blind people doing pair programming might be more difficult, without special accommodations.
Oh, I misread where you were going with that.
Have you ever watched YouTube videos of blind people trying to read the Stack Overflow Blog?
 
I haven't but I imagine it's a mess because they're pushing for alt-text etc. to make it more accessible
 
11:11 AM
Ironic, isn't it, that a company claiming to value inclusion and accessibility doesn't?
 
@NordineLotfi Also, based on that website: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…, I guess it might be offensive to use "impaired"...too late to edit, but I guess "person with a disability" or "health condition" would be better.
now I see what you meant on the meta room Cody. "Not taking shortcut" is a good way to remember that
 
Scott has developed a robust watermarking algorithm for GPT. When GPT uses his watermark, a watermark detector has a pretty good chance to correctly detect the watermark, even if a few words are changed or rearranged. Unfortunately, OpenAI haven't yet incorporated the watermark...
Such a watermark isn't just useful to those of us wanting to catch ChatGPT cheats. It would also be useful to OpenAI: they need to be able to filter GPT output from the next round of training data.
 
@PM2Ring since you mentioned this, here is a link I thought was interesting: alignmentforum.org lot of interesting post there
@PM2Ring probably not too robust since some people can write the same way chatgpt does (either because of the fact it's part of it's dataset, or because that's just how language work)
a watermark make more sense when it's on images or videos, even if you can remove it (although it's much harder depending on the watermark). See what DALL-E did for example
 
Thank you. Some of the previous changes made it seem like SE's accessibility strategy was to make the interface equally difficult for everyone to use. ;) — PM 2Ring Jan 27 at 6:51
 
@PM2Ring Soon, I understand, they'll be required by law in the EU to do so. I therefore assume that they'll just do it for all GPT-generated content, so we'll benefit from it in the US, too.
And, uh, *checks profile* over there in Aussieland where you are. :-)
 
11:21 AM
The whole ChatGPT situation has a lot of parallels to radioactive steel
 
@NordineLotfi Eh... yeah, there's this school of thought that you need to emphasize that people are people when you talk about their illnesses or other conditions. Shrug. Not everyone agrees with it, but it's very important to some people.
 
@NordineLotfi The ChatGPT watermark isn't like a visible watermark on an image. It's incorporated into the pseudo-random sequence of tokens.
 
@metatoaster pillage the submarines?
 
rather, OpenAI's approach to ChatGPT is literally dripping radioactive waste onto the entire internet
2
 
@CodyGray yeah, I see what you mean
@PM2Ring I know based on what you posted, but what I mean is, this will still have a lot of false-positive. I guess we'll see :/
 
11:22 AM
The argument is that you want to avoid defining people by their conditions or whatever. Or implying that they're less than a full person because of them. Those, I agree with.
 
and find themselves unable to not measure radioactivity because they can't manufacture accurate Geiger counters
and yeah, if OpenAI wants to train on data untainted with their own radioactive fallout, time to pillage books.
 
After review of a total of 0 grams of radioactive waste, Stack Exchange staff have determined that Geiger counters are not accurate and should not be relied on as a safety or detection device.
 
I kid, of course. Not about them analyzing nothing, of course. Only about the fact that we all agree that the detectors are terrible, and have tons of false-positives, which is why none of us rely on them, and some of us don't even use them.
 
yeah because as I said they nuked the entire Internet, it's impossible to fix that now
 
11:26 AM
@CodyGray out of curiosity, have you ever watched this? It's fascinating
 
No, I haven't
What exactly is fascinating about it?
 
I would encourage that. They speed up the text reader to "infinite" and it's totally unintelligible to you and I
Let me find a video
 
@NordineLotfi It depends how large the text is, and how much it gets modified after it's generated. It's not much use for small texts, but for sufficiently large texts it takes a lot of changes to disrupt the watermark, and the probability of creating a false positive is very small: it's essentially the probability of guessing a sufficiently large hash by chance.
 
@CodyGray something like this
 
@PM2Ring I hope you're right...My feeling on this is hard to explain, but I can't see it not having false-positive. The only way I could explain that by is "that's how language works", but that doesn't mean anything so it's not worth as an argument
 
11:31 AM
@roganjosh I can understand some extremely fast speech. I'm way out of practice now, but when I was doing it regularly, comprehending 500-600 words per minute of dense technical material was not a challenge for me at all.
So, yeah, this is totally true, and unsurprising to me, and something I've done myself (although never with code).
 
@NordineLotfi You can read a bit about the watermarking procedure here: scottaaronson.blog/?p=6823 in the section "My Projects at OpenAI"
 
@PM2Ring Thanks :) btw, did you check the link I pinged you with earlier? don't know if you already found that one before
 
@NordineLotfi Not yet, but I might have seen it before.
 
got you
 
Huh. I've never heard of this "Effective Altruism" group.
 
11:40 AM
Just last night I watched Philosophy Tube's take on it
 
Back in the days of FidoNet, one of the regular contributors to the C_ECHO was a blind guy named Rick. Like me, he started programming in the days of punch cards. Back then, he had an advantage over sighted coders because he could read cards by touch. He said it was like kiddy Braille.
Some cards had the text printed along the top, but plenty didn't. So being able to read the punch card code was a very useful skill. It wasn't that hard, but it was pretty tedious. But for someone like Rick it was literally child's play. However, he said it could get annoying with colleagues interrupting him to read some cards they'd just accidentally dropped. :)
 
@CodyGray Saw that a while ago. There no way a lot of people would listen. Especially given the improvement some people made on smaller model such as LLaMa, there no way anyone would stop, especially between closed door. Once some research or work are done, they'll be released eventually...
@roganjosh I'm guessing it's because they lost a bit of money and wanted to compete with their "short video" model, or as Andras better said, "capitalism"
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I saw their videos being recommended before but never clicked on it. Some of them actually look better than I thought :o
 
She's great, though I have only watched a few videos (not my genre and topics)
Very theatrical and hammy of course
 
Hmm. Yeah, smacks of untrustworthy content to me, just based on a first look without actually watching the videos.
I.e., judging the book by its cover.
 
Content is fine, it's just the delivery that's over the top
 
11:52 AM
Additionally, as someone who has actually studied philosophy, the idea of philosophy for a general lay audience doesn't sound very enticing.
Especially not if it's done like Drunk History.
 
But if you talk about philosophy dryly you could just write a blog
 
That'd be so much better.
Then I could read it quickly, instead of wasting a bunch of my life watching a stupid video.
 
Sure, my point is just that being hammy comes with the youtube turf
 
Well, the last YouTube channel I watched was PCRetroProgrammer, and definitely nothing hammy in there. :-) Or in his main channel, PCRetroTech, which contains some excellent substantive content that you simply cannot get anywhere else on the Internet.
It's assembly language, though, so I might be in the wrong room again.
 
12:09 PM
@CodyGray Fair point. Having an AI co-pilot could be helpful if you're writing stuff that involves a lot of boilerplate, like Java. Or HTML + CSS.
It would rarely be much help for most of the coding I do. And I don't actually mind doing boilerplate stuff myself. While I'm writing the tedious stuff, another part of my brain is ticking over, thinking about the more complicated stuff I'm about to write.
 
Yup, agreed.
 
A big part of this problem is that everyone engaging in this debate is pretty much on one side. The people that "take" the opposite side either a) aren't here or b) don't engage in such debates anyway because this is extraneous. The battle won't be won here, one way or the other
 
I'm a huge fan of the blind multi-instrumentalist & composer, Rachel Flowers. She plays a broad range of styles, from classical through to jazz, progressive rock, funk, etc. When she was 9 or 10 she got to spend an afternoon with one of her heroes, Ray Charles.
Apr 18 at 15:11, by PM 2Ring
More Zappa from Rachel. Zomby Woof https://youtu.be/SfWAoluXttI She's playing the percussion on one of the keyboards.
 
@roganjosh An alternative way of saying that is that we've already won, right?
 
@CodyGray We've lost. Absolutely we've lost
 
12:13 PM
:-(
 
The best we can do (and I'm being genuine) is to try shield this chat room against it. At least, that's my opinion
 
@CodyGray "And thus we get into the accusations of geographic bias..." Ah. The Elbonia Problem. meta.stackexchange.com/q/269289/334566
 
@roganjosh I'm sorry, but as an AI language model, I am unable to provide any sort of shielding or give opinions. My responses are based on the data and patterns I have been train on, up until my knowledge cutoff in September 2021. Is there something else I can assist you with?
 
@CodyGray Will Liz truss hold out as Prime Minister?
 
Reply hazy, try again.
 
12:20 PM
Silly me, that was over before you could even respond with your corpus
My favourite comment from that, err, debacle, was "Two Liz's entered that room, but only one could leave alive" when Truss was sworn in
Anywho. There is probably a PEP to rant about or something?
 
I don't know enough about British politics to understand the joke. Why two Lizes? Who is the other Liz?
Oh, the Queen?
 
A cautiously optimistic message from Rachel. This one reminds me a lot of her friend, Stevie Wonder.
 
@CodyGray Yep :)
 
12:36 PM
I have a crazy theory. SO Inc demanded payment from OpenAI, Google, etc, to compensate for using SE content in their training data. But they refused, or didn't offer enough money. So now SO Inc want the SE data to be poisoned with GPT stuff to make it harder to be used in future training rounds.
 
...interesting. That's definitely a new one.
I didn't expect to hear any new ones, considering that we mods have been spending the past week trying to make sense out of this (and becoming increasingly desperate).
 
I don't think it's overly complex; Occam's Razor probably works here. You might ask "why have we been shafted this way and why would SO do that?" well, they have done that before and.... yet here you are, still as a mod. We'll all capitulate in the end
 
My less crazy theory is that it's just the Elbonia Problem. I have no stats, but it wouldn't surprise me if people from Elbonia comprise a majority of the people being caught posting ChatGPT stuff.
 
@roganjosh Before, we (mods and all community members) have been repeatedly shafted. Now, the site we're all trying/hoping to build is being shafted. That's the difference.
 
There are some brilliant coders from Elbonia. And some very eloquent communicators. But there are huge numbers on SO that are poor communicators, write sloppy code, and are mostly focused on learning how to pass exams than actually acquiring genuine knowledge. They don't really care about the process, they just want the end result. So naturally ChatGPT looks wonderful to them.
 
12:48 PM
@PM2Ring I think this "I have no stats, but..." methodology is the same one that SO, Inc. uses. I don't suppose you have it copyrighted or something?
 
@CodyGray let's see how it plays out. I have nothing but nice things to say about moderators but SE knows it can push the envelope and (devil's advocate) you'll fall in line in the end
 
@CodyGray Maybe they got complaints from upset Elbonians...
 
@PM2Ring Also, there is, as I've been told, a significant incentive for users from Elbonia to amass reputation on Stack Overflow, in order to get jobs or get into good schools or some kind of somethings. And ChatGPT looks especially good for that, as long as you don't know it's just a BS generator.
@roganjosh I mean, you know, we almost certainly would have agreed to pretty much anything short of what they actually did announce, had they discussed this with us. That's the ridiculous thing.
 
@roganjosh Stockholm syndrome is so 1988. It's StackOverflow syndrome now.
 
That's... not wrong.
 
12:51 PM
I'm good at not even being wrong!
 
@CodyGray That seems to be true, although it's mostly about jobs. I bet good SO rep may impress some teachers, but that won't have any effect on your ability to get into schools, since that's controlled by ridiculously high-pressure exams.
 
Yeah, that sounds right. I may have made the school thing up.
 
@MisterMiyagi Don't ever stop not being even wrong ;)
 
1:33 PM
jetbrains has a "my productivity" tab which shows the following. youtu.be/a5oIdtI6yEk?t=10
Is there a similar plugin for VSCode?
 
There's a diverse array of spyware out there that you can install on your computer. I'm sure at least one of those packages tracks your keypresses.
 
1:52 PM
You mean VSCode plugins aren't safe?
 
I mean that tracking your keystrokes, including the number of times you use a particular keyboard shortcut, seems like the exact kind of thing that spyware would do.
 
2:06 PM
<sigh> Don't you love when someone doesn't follow your advice, does something different, and then says it still doesn't work?
 
The good thing about that is, I don't have to do any thinking in order to continue being helpful to them.
 
absolutely, I enjoy it especially when they act like it is all my fault.
 
@Thingamabobs it's not all your fault? Hmm, I'll have to re-think my approach
 
of course it is, according to every women I've met at least :D
 
TMI :P
 
2:23 PM
@CodyGray can't this can be limited to specific programs? E.g. JS in Firefox can see my keystrokes, but if I switch to another program it can't.
 
2:49 PM
@roganjosh Thankyou for this, appreciate the help :)
 
 
6 hours later…
9:10 PM
This is not even funny anymore. This is my boss speaking to me. I'm done with this
 
@roganjosh this sounds so crazy it almost looks like output from a markov chain instead of Copilot
but then I remember Copilot is mostly for code. probably make sense then since it's mostly trained on code (and comments)
 
@NordineLotfi At this point it's bullying, frankly. I can hold my own but this is stupid
 
yeah, it's definitely in bad taste :/
 
I'm effing off to Bali or something and maybe this silly AI storm will pass. I don't want or need this
@NordineLotfi It's not bad taste - he's not joking. This is what I was dealing with before
 
@roganjosh ah, I guess "insulting" sounds better
 
9:32 PM
It's certainly more accurate
rbrb
 
 
1 hour later…
10:36 PM
@NordineLotfi it's not the message that copilot wrote. It's the code that the message references. If you imagine quotes around "as now" it looks less like word soup.
 
:O yeah I see it now
Thanks for pointing it out, didn't notice
 

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