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7:00 PM
in Python I miss a few things from other languages
 
hmm...I'll have to check out master of none - was looking for new show
 
Is there a way to do something like:
with open(...) as f:
    while f.hasMoreLines:
        play.that.funky.music()
 
Iterate over it?
 
I think I've got an alternative using try/except.
@KevinM loop while there are more lines, I don't want to read a line at a time otherwise I'd just use a for loop.
I've got a working method in my head though.
 
7:09 PM
Unless music mutates f it looks like that would just loop forever
 
My plan is to read in 100-1000 lines at a time using itertools.islice
Rather than reading a line at a time.
 
@Kevin Which is a bad idea on its own (abstration layers et)
 
Then when there are no more lines left, I stahp.
 
I think I had too much caffeine and now I'm operating perpendicular to ordinary rationality.
Feels like one of those dreams where you're trying to solve a math problem and the letters keep changing, except here the letters stay the same and it's me that changes.
They call them fingers, but you never see them fing. Oh wait, there they go.
 
TMI!
 
7:12 PM
He's called Kevin, but what exactly is he in?
No one else says.
 
Instead of saying our names backwards, my brother and I have "opposite names", I'm Nightvid and he's Dustout (Dustin).
 
ugh having to read fortran code right now is so tiring.... LAPACK + FFT and other discrete fourier transforms.
Just to have "practical examples" instead of theory, but those example are more difficult than the theory itself.
 
gotta love Fortran's DO 10 K=1, M loops
 
@davidism Ha, I know that. I used to invent opposite names with my friends as well... E.g. the German "Helmut" ("hell" = "bright") became "Dunkelmut" ("dunkel" = "dark"). :D
 
It would be really dumb, but the design for the websocket server would be a hundred times simpler if I just made the client establish two connections, one exclusively for sending messages, and one exclusively for receiving them.
 
7:21 PM
@JGreenwell nooooooo no labels:S
brief cabbage
the acausal echoes of spaghetti fortran code through spacetime summoned me
@JGreenwell I hope there are nested do loops there with the same 10 continue and some additional manual gotos:P
 
yeah, fourier transforms had too be some of the most spaghetti of spaghetti code
 
Why oh why? It could be so simple...
and vectorized...
with f90...
Fourier, of all things...
 
maybe Gaussian elimination schemes....those got pretty bad
 
yeah, I can imagine many things like that, but FT is one of the simplest problems, and most easily and naturally writable in a non-spaghetti way...
 
esp. when people didn't understand DIMENSIONS
 
7:27 PM
OK I'm reading context, paul is the one facing fortran code:P
thank goodness
 
well I saw FT the most often so I wonder if it was just a bias
 
@AndrasDeak ...
 
also it was high school
so FORTRAN written by 14-18 year olds
......it all got bad
 
@JGreenwell taught by 50-year-olds?
 
High school handled fourier series at your place? (genuine) wow.
 
7:29 PM
or 60
 
LAPACK for "practical examples" is nuts. It's like telling you to read Stack Overflow documentation before designing your first package.
Or giving you the specs of a 747 when your vacuum cleaner needs fixing
 
My highschool Calculus teacher was a retired Doctoral professor and started a CS program at the school....teaching what he knew the first year (moved to C later)
 
@JGreenwell no no no no no
OK, I'm off to watch some movie:P
enough suspense here:D
 
@AndrasDeak But 747s are so simplistic
Actually really easy to describe by the way. All static analysis, no dynamic stability or anything fancy was done at that moment in time. (Computers were expensive in those times :P)
 
was cool to have someone with really advance math skills and CS skills as a teacher I must admit - got me into physics (which lead me to CS eventually)
 
7:36 PM
cbg
I have a quick question...
The following codeline
execute("INSERT INTO example(value) VALUES ('%d');"%value)
gives an error sqlite3.OperationalError: near "INTO": syntax error
why is that?
(This is just for some other test, I know one should not populate a database like in that example...)
 
Strange, it doesn't give a syntax error on my machine.
Check the lines above that one for mismatched parentheses or similar. Sometimes the line number indicated in Syntax Errors don't precisely match the line where you missed something.
 
Does it give a different error if the table would not exist?
 
Yeah.
If you're getting a SyntaxError, your code isn't even running.
 
Ok, I found it. I forgot to delete a crap statement I wanted to delete...
Its getting late here...
 
... Unless whatever db api you're using raises a different kind of syntax error when the sql statement you pass it is invalid. Which would be confusing and weird.
Oh. Yep, that's what's happening. I misread your error.
It's not a SyntaxError, it's an OperationalError.
 
7:41 PM
@Alex arent you supposed to be using ? instead of formatting the sql query yourself
 
Now I have: Incorrect number of bindings supplied.
 
Yeah percent style formatting like this isn't ideal but from "I know one should not populate a database like in that example" I assume he's going to clean things up once it actually runs
 
aaahhh
wait!!
 
But the proper style is even less characters
 
Devil's advocate: character count doesn't always correlate with potential error surface area
So if you're optimizing for the smallest number of potential sources of problems, you might choose the wordier approach that you're more confident won't behave contrary to your expectations
 
7:45 PM
what??
Anyway, my test code finally works FOR NOTHING!!
I was trying to reproduce a problem without success!!
 
Glad to hear it!(?)
:-)-:
 
Actual problem still exists, and no idea how to create some example code to reproduce it in a questionable form...
 
Oh, ok. That's bad.
 
Better not bost about 7000 lines of code...
post
Anyway, the actual problem is:
Commit failed with 'database is locked'
No idea?
 
are you doing a transaction?
 
7:49 PM
At a guess I'd say it's either a race condition or a permissions problem
 
transactions can lock the database
 
No permission problem
What is a 'transaction'?
 
Race conditions in particular are notorious for being very hard to make MCVEs for
 
What is a MCVE?
 
It's what you were just trying to write. A piece of code that reproduces the issue in the fewest number of lines.
 
7:50 PM
Anyway, I have two pythn processes which fork child processes, which should access one instance of a Database Handler...
 
Race conditions are sensitive to minor changes in execution time so removing a seemingly irrelevant line of code can make the error temporarily disappear just because that thread now runs half a millisecond faster
 
So different Linux processes in order to access a single database
 
19
Q: Documentation Update, August 4th

Kevin MontroseThis is the second post in our series of regular (roughly weekly) updates on the Documentation Beta. See also the previous post in the series. Shipped Changes Review Rules We've just enabled an update to creating and review proposed changes, so that now: Users with a silver or gold tag badg...

 
I like those changes.
 
anyone up for worms @tristan @Ffisegydd @RobertGrant
 
7:53 PM
> Users with a silver or gold tag badge (from Q&A) will skip review when they make an edit to that tag's documentation
> Users with a silver or gold tag badge can one-click approve or reject a proposed change from another user to that tag's documentation
 
It looks like a commit is being done correctly, writing new data into the databayse, i.e. no error, data is in the database.
 
My docs experience just became so much easier.
 
Then a commit happens later, without any actual 'execute' statement. Could that be the problem?
 
@davidism interesting that's applied to docs and not the main site
 
For now, it might well be brought in.
 
7:55 PM
Same with the "higher rep means votes count more".
 
rep means beep
 
It means beep in some cases, but I'd imagine you could draw strong correlations between rep and ability.
There will be users with high rep who are useless, and users with low rep who are able (Intrepid to name one example that immediately springs to mind)
 
indeed
 
I think better correlations could be drawn if one also considers their total post count and time on SO vs upvotes & accepts
 
7:58 PM
and there's nothing after that's useful of 20k rep
 
@JonClements don't ruin it, I'm looking forward to max delete votes at 35k.
Not that I use most of them regularly.
 
people tend to use delete votes wrongly
 
How many regulars in the room have gold/silver in ? We suddenly gained a lot more influence over the docs if we want to coordinate.
 
I have a gold in python if that helps
 
8:06 PM
I have a nothing.
 
I'm 28 from silver.
 
@JonClements You also have the diamond of power, puppy. :-)
Or did you have to get reviewed as well?
 
I haven't touched docs
 
Sensible.
 
That explains your relative sanity.
 
8:08 PM
they're still working it out and what tools are necessary
 
Can't wait til they get to what it's for; that'll be great
Yeah, I went there
 
from what I can tell, mods still have unilateral votes
 
DSM
It's like Teams, but without the clarity of purpose.
 
actual snerk
 
8:11 PM
until mod tooling is in place and the CM team decided what they want to do with it - I'm not touching it
 
Go on Jon, it's fun.
All the cool kids are doing it.
 
I'm not a "cool kid"
 
You want to be though, right?
 
Yeah, yeah play it cool. I understand.
 
DSM
8:15 PM
♫ all the cool kids ♫ they seem to fit in ♫
 
I had a row with the CM team
 
@JonClements you'll always be cool to room 6 <3
 
Sanity check: I have two threads. One thread iterates over a list. Another thread appends items to that same list. Is this a reasonably safe arrangement?
 
@davidism Thank you
 
@Kevin I'm fairly sure list operations are thread safe in cpython.
 
8:20 PM
Things that are acceptable to me:
- the first thread iterates over the new items added by the second thread
- the first thread does not iterate over the new items added by the second thread
Things that are unacceptable to me:
- weird crashes / kernel panics / bluescreens / underlying C implementation exceptions
- the first thread does not iterate over items that were in the list before the second thread did an append
 
@JonClements what's CM?
 
@davidism Ok, I'll design with that in mind. But I'll make it easy to slide in a Lock later if necessary.
 
Colossal Mess?
 
@Kevin What do you want to have happen if the first thread hits the end of the list and after that the second thread adds more items?
 
@Rob Community Manager
So Shog et al
 
8:21 PM
Ooh okay, thanks
 
@Kevin maybe you just want a Queue?
 
Didn't know that term
@davidism yeah that was my next thought
Along with: davidism's here; I should tell him I like Knights of Cydonia
Not sure I'm enjoying it, as it's pretty serious, but it is very cool
 
The first thread iterates over the list multiple times in a loop, so I need a collection that doesn't get consumed in one go
Which sort of answers Robert's question: it will miss iterating over the new items this time, but will get them the next time around.
 
@RobertGrant I couldn't make it past about halfway through the second season. Tone totally changed.
 
Ah okay, I'm still in the first one
 
8:23 PM
First season was great.
 
I also was watching Stranger Things, so I got distracted
 
That's easy to do ;)
 
watching News Radio right now
great drinking game: try to name every piece of technology from memory (drink after every attempt - correct or not)
played it last weekend with a few other friends - still not sure who won
 
user559633
8:38 PM
@JonClements Sorry, in the middle of work.
 
TIL that Documentation is actually a covert testing grounds for Q&A. No reason to worry!
Nice thing about having a beta is we can test out all these crazy ideas that folks have been asking for for years without breaking stuff for thousands of people, @davidism. — Shog9 ♦ 3 mins ago
 
Ah, holy crap, I got the dupe close hammer \o/
 
@WayneWerner restecp
 
@AndrasDeak I am cheeky
@Shog9 oh thank goodness! I was starting to worry that you guys were serious about Docs being for real. World makes sense again :-) — Robert Grant 21 secs ago
 
yeah I saw:D
you little devil you
see you in a month
 
user559633
8:49 PM
i couldn't even muster up the give-a-shit to skim
 
Hey you mess with the bull, you might also get an annoying person with an 8-year-old's attitude replying. Also, messing with the bull is probably bad.
@JonClements I'm not sorry
Because I can play :-)
 
user559633
If you guys are still going in 30 minutes, I can probably hop in
 
Might be a bit late - getting up at 4am!
 
user559633
get up later
 
user559633
silly man. what would you do without me providing easy solutions?
 
8:54 PM
:-)
 
getting suspended for being not constructive will help with that:P
 
user559633
oh, seriously?
 
it seriously will
 
user559633
misread. i thought you were saying that you were getting suspended for your comments on meta
 
noooo, Robert is! ;D
 
9:06 PM
@tristan I'm sorry, that comment, while not a problem in any way, was not considered constructive enough to warrant you not being banned
 
heh:D
 
P.s. he's just kidding. I'm not banned, I'm just having some fun
 
user559633
wouldn't blow my mind if SO went into the later stage of company stagnation, wherein late-stage seat-fillers blame users for not appreciating the company enough
 
It would be funny if the latest ban spree aimed partially at sopython ROs wasn't because they allegedly failed to communicate their frustration in a constructive manner.
 
user559633
it's not a customer's job to make their feedback flowery
 
9:07 PM
since when are you a customer?
 
Indeed. Flowery feedback means slower and worse progress
@tristan s/customer/product/
 
user559633
@AndrasDeak uhh. oh, sorry, i'm a chump
 
user559633
moderating a chatroom and posting content for free
 
user559633
one of my test users said that one of my new interfaces was quote "fucking confusing and i wasted my time" and i was so proud of him
 
Yeah I hate feedback like that, but it definitely is good for me and my work
 
user559633
9:10 PM
i felt like someone thew sand in my face, but feedback that strong means that i messed up pretty bad
 
Yeah when I'm designing UIs I think hard about how they will be used, unless I'm also the one building them, in which case I think about the funnest way to implement them
 
sugarcoating in technical contexts is bullshit
 
@AndrasDeak it is a terrible sign
Came across an internal system of our customer's the other day, was written within the last two years by their main IT department. Said IT dept always trying to enforce every perfect design under the sun, which is cool as it pushes us, except when it comes to their own output, in which case they just do whatever works.
Case in point: this one had a calendar view in it, for which they used a Flash-based GANTT chart component, with all the GANTT symbols, even though it was meant to be just a calendar with events on it like Google Calendar.
Hard to even know what to say to people with double standards like that, so we just keep trying to take their feedback on the chin and give them no reason to criticise us
Anyway, moan over. Rbrb!
 
user559633
take care
 
maybe they didn't half-ass, they overdid?:P
rhubarb
 
9:16 PM
Do you want to know how to run the dev server, how to enable the debugger with other servers, or how to enable logging? Three different dupe targets. — davidism 43 secs ago
I have so much choice.
 
"choose your bullet"
> -- I choose neither.
> -- Too broad it is.
 
user559633
that title sounds like a pycon chatbot only read half the input from the markov chain
 
Do I win the Turing test?
 
user559633
do you think you win the turing test?
 
anyone know how to specify a postgres type in sqlalchemy?
i.e. I have a postgres stored procedure that returns SETOF <mycustomtype> and I want to be able to query said stored proc
 
user559633
9:23 PM
oh, custom types?
 
sure, I could do it with the .text('select * from schema.mystoredproc(arg, arg, arg)') or whatever it is, but I don't really want to do that
 
@WayneWerner docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_1_0/core/… or something else on that page
 
user559633
yeah, i assume custom sqlalchemy.types class to define how it's special
 
I had a glance through there, but that seemed more like it was talking about creating a new datatype, rather than like... a postgres type which is more like declaring a table?
 
user559633
i assume it would be creating the type to tell sqlalchemy how it works, t hen using it like any other db-specific type
 
user559633
9:27 PM
i'm an idiot though and anything i say should be taken with a literal mine of salt
 
@WayneWerner are you talking about composite types? docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_1_0/orm/…
 
Yeah, that's it!
at least that's what sqlalchemy.exc.ProgrammingError: (psycopg2.ProgrammingError) "yourtype" is a composite type tells me
 
user559633
for davidism, specifically, in case he hadn't noticed it was uploaded
 
I did notice. It was good.
Pre-rec did a first look at Quadrilateral Cowboy, which looked sort of interesting
"Programming" to solve puzzles.
@tristan I didn't realize just how much the "Ghostbusters are women now" angle was pushed against all reason. I just don't pay that much attention to movie news.
 
9:39 PM
quotas are cool
 
user559633
@davidism oh, yeah, i smelled it pretty early on.
 
user559633
when i saw the nytimes stepping in to help peddle that garbage, i figured some non-trivial money was being spent to weaponize sjw bullshit
 
wait, have people been banned again? or are people just making jokes
 
just the latter, as far as I know
turns out it's not funny
 
user559633
yeah, just a lazy cash grab of a garbage movie with a company trying to use guilt and claimed prejudice to silence criticism, that vastly overestimated the spending power of the professional victim demographic they're trying to encourage
 
9:53 PM
^ thought @tristan was talking about SO there
thanks Andras
 
user559633
haha, nah, just having fun with media company mess ups
 
user559633
@davidism yeah, looks like a cute game, but i don't know about $20
 
I just got Abzu yesterday, since I'm a fan of Flower and Journey, so I'm set for a while.
Also have Bound and No Man's Sky on preorder.
 
user559633
i expect no man's sky to be a massive letdown
 
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 21 secs ago, by Machavity
@Shog9 oh thank goodness! I was starting to worry that you guys were serious about Docs being for real. World makes sense again :-) — Robert Grant 1 hour ago
getting famous, @RobertGrant :D
 
user559633
9:58 PM
15 secs ago, by Andras Deak
in SO Close Vote Reviewers, 21 secs ago, by Machavity
@Shog9 oh thank goodness! I was starting to worry that you guys were serious about Docs being for real. World makes sense again :-) — Robert Grant 1 hour ago
 
@tristan I think it's way too hyped, but I think I'll still have enough fun to justify it.
 
user559633
@davidism i was hoping it would be almost immediately actual multiplayer with some sort of eve-like dynamic
 
Apparently the end game is "get to the center of the universe", so maybe you start seeing more players as everyone gets closer?
 
user559633
single player get resource, upgrade thing, repeat isn't doing it for me, and i think i'm burned out on sandbox games
 
user559633
@davidism maybe, but i'm interpreting it as that you won't actually see other human players, just their actions, such as labelling planets
 
user4584267
10:01 PM
pretty random q
 
user559633
watching bound now
 
user4584267
anyone know a random online MJPG stream
 
user4584267
im working on a project from home but the company streams offline, as its 11pm
 
is that what kids call gifs nowaday?
mjpg, for moving jpeg? ;)
 
user4584267
no
 
user559633
10:01 PM
sorry, i don't know of one.
 
user4584267
well basically
 
user4584267
its anever ending gif
 
It's by Plastic, a demoscene group. They did one for PS3 too, but this one seems a lot more like a game than a demo.
 
Seriously? I thought I was joking.
 
user4584267
Ur humour
 
user4584267
10:02 PM
wasnt appreciated
 
user4584267
soz
 
user559633
can't tell if serious
 
user559633
puts on boot
 
user4584267
Ok im asumin u all python?
 
10:02 PM
:D
I'm a python, yes. I slither all day.
 
bahaha
 
user559633
Is Bound a game or is it "a game"
 
user559633
@Tobi im a nord. skyrim belongs to us.
 
lol rite m8
 
10:03 PM
@tristan I'm fairly sure it's a game in the same sense that Journey and Abzu are.
 
user559633
@Tobi you seem like a rude person
 
that's euphemism for asshole ^
 
As in, there are gameplay elements, but they're light.
 
user559633
anyone know a random online JRPG stream
 
wait, actual leet speak. Wow, I haven't seen that in like 10 years
 
user559633
10:05 PM
@ByteCommander whatever, nerd. ( ;) )
 
@tristan Ahem... ;)
 
I remember I only ever used leet to annoy my dad....which means I assume anyone who uses it has "daddy issues"
 
Somehow I completely blocked out that user while having a nice discussion about games. Let's keep it that way.
 
user559633
10:07 PM
i only use 1337 speak ir0nically
 
@tristan #sarcasm
 
today I was actually able to explain some CS history to my wife due to "The Imitation Game" and Turing - it was fun and surreal
 
and sad?:P
 
user559633
@davidism do you use a controller for these sorts of games?
 
I had some peeves while watching that movie, science-wise. But I don't remember what they were.
 
user6568562
10:08 PM
Good night, everybody
 
user559633
i suspect my girlfriend would really like exploring in Abzû
 
user559633
@randomhopeful have a good night! hope to see you again soon
 
Yeah, PS4.
 
@AndrasDeak actually the whole conversation started cause she asked "Why did they have to make him kill himself? They could have had a better ending." And then realizing the story was real (ish)
 
oh lol:D
 
10:10 PM
so yes, I'd say she thought it was sad
 
user559633
@davidism Does it natively work or do you have a driver/mapping software installed?
 
Ah yes, the most depressing bit was that Turing got a posthumous pardon... in 2013
 
Oh, I actually play on PS4.
Most of this stuff doesn't work on Linux.
 
user559633
Oh!
 
"Quick guys, they're making a movie about Turing. Let's do something!"
 
10:11 PM
Linux actually has really good controller support though, and Steam has no problem with it.
 
user4584267
I dont appreciate being randomly banned
 
user559633
@Tobi I assure you it wasn't random.
 
It is insanely deterministic:)
 
@Tobi here's some net speak for you: lurk moar.
 
exactly
 
10:12 PM
yeah, I noticed that too Andras
 
user559633
@Tobi I wasn't done being sick of you being rude.
 
user559633
It means "hang out" and learn the room first.
 
@tristan you want this one?
Jon says my record's a mile long. :-)
 
user559633
Some people, people who are polite, can immediately take part without issues. Other people need a little experience gained from watching.
 
user559633
@davidism Giving it a sec
 
10:13 PM
Tobi for your information: I haven't been kicked from here. Yet.
Tada!
to support tristan's previous claim
 
@Tobi here's a start: try typing complete messages on one line without txt spk.
 
:D
5 minutes now?
 
user559633
Haha, got a "this user was already kicked from the room"
 
where's RABBIT when you need it
 
10:15 PM
and not everyone here speaks English as a first language so this type of speech is rather annoying
 
(FWIW, it's not more distracting to a non-native)
 
really, surprising that - is that because it has reached such a level of annoyance that it cannot be raised anymore :)
 
user559633
I hope no man's sky is amazing.
 
@JGreenwell I think it's because seeing your own native language butchered is much worse. If a non-native can decypher what the other means, it's not that annoying.
 
@tristan I want to believe.
 
10:17 PM
annoying still, but not more annoying due to non-nativeness
 
user559633
I really do too. If you're still enjoying the mining/planet exploration component from Mass Effect as a stand alone game in a week, I'll be so happy
 
Haha, ok, I'm the test dummy.
 
user559633
sorry friend
 
user559633
i want to believe so bad, but i saw an interview with one of the people in charge and he was talking about "his vision for the project" and "the experience" and my heart sank
 
Wasn't there some leakage of that game, pre-release?
 
10:20 PM
Thinking about getting Oxenfree and Headlander too. Both supposed to be good but each are $20 and I'm not sure if they're for me.
 
or you're interested in the overall "experience"?:P
 
user559633
@AndrasDeak "experience" has seem to become a stand-in for "gameplay" and "coherent story"
 
as long as it's immersive:P
 
user559633
i just picked up fallout 4 for $20, so that + doom + my other game obsessions should hold me over for quite a long time
 
interesting, I was going off the fact that I used to speak dual Portuguese/English and always found it a problem when people used shorthand, psuedo-languages like that cause it was hard to understand
 
10:22 PM
but I'm not the right guy to discuss this with; I mostly play casual flash games nowadays
talk about lowered standards
 
user559633
one of my best friends is coming up for a week or two and we're going to marathon stream/play games, so i might end up picking up a bunch of games this month anyway
 
user559633
oh, commander keen complete pack is $2.50. of course i'm buying that.
 
Nice
I may have to pick up that one myself
Lol "picture of error"
 
user4584267
10:53 PM
ok hello
 
user4584267
i got kicked for 30 mins
 
user4584267
why was that?
 
user559633
@Tobi You were told to hang out, read, and learn how the room operates.
 
user559633
Between leet speak, off topic questions, and calling people in the room "bored nerds," you burned all of the warm welcome you deserved.
 
user559633
Read the room rules: sopython.com/chatroom
 
10:57 PM
You still don't have overwatch, right?
 
user559633
I don't. $60 for a multiplay only game is a steep price, IMHO, and the art and play style don't seem to be the kind of thing I enjoy
 

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