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9:09 PM
I'm out for the day. Cheers all. I'm going to spend time in traffic.
 
good luck, hopefully its not that bad @idjaw
 
Man, I wish it were possible to have psql emit a visual bell on query completion
 
can someone vote on this deletion so I can then move the whole topic into Functions
where lambda and recursion are already meantioned
btw. the chatroom for SOD is, I swear, like 90% Javascript people
go there if you want to lose your mind
@WayneWerner there used to be a quiet option which caused psql to trip the screen bells
 
9:26 PM
@JGreenwell That... is actually unsurprising, because they create a new framework every week ;)
 
A ban on universities teaching safe corporate programming languages would be nice.
 
@JGreenwell Looks like quiet is still there, but it doesn't look like what I want. I just added ^G to my PROMPT1
@QuestionC CS1 should teach Befunge :D
 
@QuestionC .... You know teaching C# is kind of neat, and you'll have to use something. What's the hatred in CS world against "coorporate" things anyways? As engineer it feels silly, like having to use blender instead of catia, just cause catia is expensive?
 
user559633
@QuestionC not everyone is going to be a rockstar ninja dragon slayer code hero
 
9:29 PM
@QuestionC actually I wouldn't mind the intro Java if Java was in high demand around here (only for mobile and Android Java is...well lets stay out of that) but C# is better fit (or Python with C# would be nice but baby steps)
 
@AndrasDeak Actually it was just this room reporting "unknown error occured", so I tested with refresh :P
 
user559633
i'm going to spend my first day with C# this friday. i'm actually kind of excited.
 
I like C# btw
 
DSM
It's not bad. It's big, and I find that a weakness, but I've written a fair bit in it and enjoyed it well enough.
 
my issue with Java classes is the oversimplification the classes usually are (ie. code by example with less focus on good programming practices and concepts)
 
user559633
9:31 PM
What's the canonical suggestion for newbies?
 
user559633
I'm going to be using it for Unity/game programming
 
user559633
(i can ask somewhere else if wanted)
 
which could be anything really, just happens a lot with Java classes)
Look at Jon Skeet's stuff (like books)
 
@tristan Unity to C# is like pygame is to python 3.x
 
user559633
i thought c# was still the go-to language for unity.
 
user559633
9:32 PM
unless you mean "you're asking to be annoyed unless you get a bit of fluency with the language first"
 
@tristan It is, but unity uses a very bare-boned version with a lot of unity specific add-ons and (worse) restrictions.
 
gross
 
user559633
i'm cool with that -- i just want to self service on the most basic of questions
 
I was never happy with the C# restrictions in the first place...
@JGreenwell I think most college courses are like that
 
It's just personal experience. The least capable programmers I've had to work with were incredibly obsessed with "Checking for NULL" and I think it's because that's all they really knew how to do and C#/Java is the perfect language for them.
 
9:34 PM
Honestly, CS1 should start out teaching git/github/hg + pull requests
 
I haven't used unity, but I believe you couldn't even use the default constructor for most stuff, and had to use unity's two stepped construction to make things working.
 
user559633
@WayneWerner disagree. git/version control is just tools
 
user559633
i'm okay with annoyance and a bit of silly.
 
It's really not that bad / restrictive. You miss out on some of the later versions of .NET's stdlib (tuples and stuff), and you have to deal with unity conventions (no constructor, only Start()), but it's still nice
 
user559633
i use python
 
9:35 PM
There's Linq, at least
 
@tristan Well python has the "nice' things that it's all standardized (the quirks). Unity/C# is annoying that, while learning, you constantly have to be on your toes if the snippet you read is for C# or for unity - and if that matters. Similar to java/android btw.
 
@tristan Well, they shouldn't just be teaching the tools - they should be teaching how to work together as teams, and oh BTW here are some tools that you will absolutely need to know how to use
Most college students aren't taught how to work on teams, regardless of how many team projects they get put on
 
So we've just finished Interstellar. My quantum data is unfortunately in a superposition of confused and annoyed.
 
Last I checked, my college started with Python, but forcing people to use __slots__ so they understand variable storage
 
@WayneWerner Tools are something you learn from older students. Profs shouldn't waste time on that, they should just describe the theory on teamwork and management, and during projects you can learn the tools through experience/asking older students (TAs).
 
9:39 PM
I think professors should spend some time on teaching version control. It's the tool that could mean the deletion of an entire project, so they should understand how not to fail.
 
user559633
@WayneWerner meh. you can be a cowboy coder, and should be, especially at the start. not everyone needs to care about git/working on teams. also, if you tell the modern university to teach about "teams", you'll get SJW shithead sycophancy
 
Linq blows. Yes it's great they added a way to manipulate collections in C#, but it's no better and way more verbose than doing the same thing in say, Python, and sometimes C.
 
user559633
@paul23 thanks for the warning
 
@paul23 I'm pretty sure I was the only one through my college career that had a clue about VCS, and I didn't even understand how rebasing or merging or rewriting history worked
 
user559633
you can pick up git basics in a weekend, and if you pick some tool like Hg, there's no promise that it won't be obscure from Freshman->Senior
 
9:40 PM
I was working on mypaint, and I totally horked up my repo history. Thanks to following the exact instructions of a capable mentor(?) I was able to fix things.
But it was just typing in words, I didn't know what I was doing, heh.
 
@WayneWerner Yet spending valuable contact hours on this? - Maybe a reader would be useful you have to read in your spare time, but contact hours?
 
user559633
apple time machine. there, now you have lots of incremental backups and more time to learn how computers work instead of complex tools
 
Just start them on SVN, it's pretty darn simple
 
When I had to use a windtunnel I also was just given a 10 page reader I had to "understand" before coming there so I knew how to set things up. But we don't spend hours studying that.
 
@paul23 I'm not saying you need to fully grok Git, but you'll need to know the abstractions about pointers anyway, so why not?
 
9:44 PM
I'd rather teach kids Hg. It's simpler and captures the whole branching thing. I'd expect someone who learned one to easily pick up the other.
But why even need to teach that stuff?
 
That's certainly fine, too. Just some DVCS
 
user559633
hg is used outside of faebook?
 
@WayneWerner Cause moneys? Little point in paying a prof to teach things that can easily be taught by self-study. (Given the theory behind version control and managing workload in programming is a good subject - but that's not freshmen stuff)
 
because they don't pick it up until they graduate :P
@paul23 most of the things I learned in college weren't from my professors ;)
rbrb
 
I used hg at a previous job. It was my introduction to non-shitty source control.
 
9:45 PM
Git is already considered shitty nowadays?
 
@paul23 I agree that TAs and upperclass (say club leaders or such) should teach tools but budgeting and other limitations can make this difficult - like there were not enough TAs at my school
meant I worked my butt off
 
user559633
that's already the issue. which tool of the now to bother with?
 
umm...
 
Lol I don't have any programming for a year, and suddenly what's good and kewl has all changed already
 
When I say shitty I mean ones that don't use the concept of branching. hg and git both got it right.
 
9:49 PM
@WayneWerner well, who knows what can also depend on experience coming in (like I had worked as a developer for 5 years before I started college) - meaning I knew more then most but less then some
 
And they're basically isomorphic. Similar to how you'd expect a person with Python experience to pick up Javascript without too much pain. Or Java/C#.
 
user559633
@user6426692 What about it?
 
DSM
SOCVR is also uninterested in Delphi, I take it.
 
SVN has brenching at least. Maybe distributed is a little tricky for first-timers
 
wim
9:51 PM
fwiw I think teaching git in CS is a great idea
git is not going away anytime soon, and it's a crucial skill for the profession
 
at intro?
I would see it in advance (maybe at end of intro class)
 
If it's for CS, they better teach the theories behind git, not just how to use it.
 
but there is a lot to teach in intro class (and for some it is the only programming class they will get)
 
True. After all, Git gets easier once you understand branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space
 
wim
it's often a failing point with interns or fresh recruits where they fuck up their checkout and need help because they don't have any experience with vcs
 
9:53 PM
Yep, we are who.
 
 
makes it hard to develop what will be taught (and big difference between large, top-college and smaller ones)
so have to adjust to that too
 
wim
yes the idea of diffs and patches and the reflog
 
Terry are who Posting bunnies.
 
@Terry \o/
 
9:54 PM
The world needs more bunnies
 
wim
that bunny has shit and piss on his feet
post a better one pls
 
also have to consider that intro class means CS, IT, and IS people as well as some ISM and others - which makes it again harder to determine coursework
 
I hope it's OK if I read his name as PTerry in my head
 
I asked that is apparently not his name @AndrasDeak
 
@wim Terry only knows what we teach him: github.com/sopython/rabbit/issues/11
 
9:55 PM
But that would explain the bunny's feet soaked in piss. He didn't notice, because the P is silent.
 
finally managed to get slycot working
 
@wim It's the piss of his enemies who have wet themselves.
 
wim
oh, Terry is a bot ?
 
That's racist.
 
Does the kicked see the bunny?
 
wim
10:00 PM
it would seems kind of pointless if they don't
 
user559633
@paul23 No. They see a "you were kicked" page and the room's topic.
 
too bad :(
 
user559633
If they come back without the session that was kicked, they can see the bunny.
 
user559633
Also, long time, no see. Hope things are well with you.
 
still studying, just low focus on computer aided stuff last year so less reason to use python.
 
10:25 PM
i know it ,its you
The owner of this room are so generous and understanding
 
user559633
@user6426692 Hang out and learn the room. I believe you have a language barrier that is making it hard for you.
 
No thank you but you lie to me
when i ask you who did it you say that you don't know
 
@user6426692 also constantly asking about Delphi in the Python room is not helping
Also the at least one room owner said "they" did it
 
user559633
@user6426692 We don't actually know. There are more than a handful of room owners.
 
user559633
@user6426692 Further, I don't care enough about you to lie to you.
 
user559633
10:32 PM
I did kick you once and you're not adding anything to the room, so I'd do it again.
 
on a positive note, I think I finally figured out what people in the meeting wanted - only took 2 hours :P
 
user559633
Did they want the meeting to end?
 
okay, people who called for the meeting
english stickler you
 
user559633
Haha, I was actually just trying to get you to laugh
 
Look i don't care about rooms or any what you are tolking about , i came to this site just to learn and know good Mans around the world.
 
10:33 PM
well...it did make me smile ;)
 
user559633
@user6426692 Great. See again: Hang out and learn the room. I believe you have a language barrier that is making it hard for you.
 
user559633
@JGreenwell When I managed people, I'll admit that I once called a meeting because I felt like I had to because I was told to have more meetings by my boss.
 
@user6426692 I almost responded to that message of yours, but I'm trying to be a proper person. Please read tristan's helpful messages. Multiple times.
 
oh, no. This person just like meetings and thinks, because he doesn't have the technical knowledge of us, that he needs to use as many buzzwords as possible (frequently wrong) so it really can be hard to grasp what he is even saying
 
user559633
Anyone know someone that works at Amazon? Specifically, amazon robotics?
 
10:37 PM
i keep calm
 
@tristan I don't, but I googled them and found "Amazon Robotics is a [...] company that manufactures mobile robotic fulfillment systems". Sounds very naughty.
 
user559633
@user6426692 Yes, as do I. Read the messages I sent to you. I am trying to help.
 
wait, do you need to be robotically fulfilled?
 
user559633
@AndrasDeak Oh my. I did not read into it that way.
 
usually he's not that bad, but this last one: good lord, he was trying to explain that he wanted something to do with NLP so had looked up and badly quoted some AI, NLP, and analytic jargon that just made everyone go "duh, huh?"
 
10:38 PM
@tristan anyway , thank's
 
user559633
@user6426692 no problem. because of the language barrier, take extra time to read and understand the room.
 
I have an eerie sense of déjà vu
 
user559633
same. it's almost as if i'm repeating myself.
 
or Andras was trying to break Terry again
 
10:40 PM
@tristan that's it , my problem is the LNG.
 
(so, mostly methane?)
 
and i'll happy to know good mans .
hey tristan
 
user559633
hi
 
Hey guys. I'm making a bar graph using a dict's keys for the x values and the dict's key's values for the y values. the keys range from 1-1500 and i'm wondering how I go about graphing only specific keys (namely ranges 200-300 and 600-800)

plt.bar(c.keys(), c.values(), color='b',)
plt.show()
 
@tristan move all my messages to python trash
 
user559633
10:45 PM
@user6426692 don't worry about it.
 
@tristan ha ha i kno that you are .ok guys good by and nice to meet you.
 
user559633
@user6426692 nice to meet you too. welcome.
 
": |" -- tristan, paraphrasing davidism
@toshbar you can probably convert the keys to a list and index into that, list(c.keys())[ind1:ind2] etc
 
you should be able to use a list slice to do that but you'll probably have to sort them first (order not guaranteed)
 
although plotting dict values vs keys sounds a bit odd to me as a design for your data
 
10:50 PM
especially if the keys are in order (why not just use a list at that point)
 
if everything's numeric, I'd keep both in numpy arrays
 
or that
 
but don't listen to me, I'm a numpy fanboy
lists are fine
don't need to be one of the cool kids, sheesh
 
user559633
yes, "cool kids"
 
cool kids (URL intentionally left intact)
 
10:53 PM
....well, I guess I'm glad that Matt Smith was apparently cool
but that should have been obvious after all: "Bowties are cool"
 
There will be a post from me, soon, which more clearly lays out what we envisioned with the rep system for docs as it was launched. The goals are really good, balance is tricky. As Shog noted, we're going to have to do a recalc, so we've got to be really careful to not inadvertently make the balance a bigger issue than it is - which means this is going to be at least a few weeks. I'll be posting this week at some point, there's a lot of stones to turn over before we can say we've turned 'em all, and a breadth-first search comes in quite handy there. — Tim Post ♦ 5 hours ago
 
oh, jebus - apparently it's easier then ever to get rep from docs
 
I also left Tim a comment asking him to explicitly specify if rep changes will be retroactive
 
his answer will likely be wait for my post (which is fair so long as he doesn't duck that question within it)
 
I'm fine with that, I asked him to address that in his post to come:)
 
user559633
11:07 PM
Wow, they really felt the need to go all-in on docs.
 
I still don't think they get it
 
user559633
I'm sure it's some business decision that was "needed"
 
user559633
If you get a round, you gotta show growth.
 
like I made (I feel) a decent post on recursion but have gotten +2 whereas adding '+=' to math has gotten me like +40
that's also a part of what people feel is a problem more than just "huge rep gains"
 
user559633
The rep part is silly. What it's meant to be solving is the bigger question (unless you really occam's razor, in which case, page views for ads and potential to sell documentation-as-a-service to 3rd parties).
 
11:11 PM
oh, I not even getting near the "what is the difference between SOD and Q&A cause I can't really see much of a difference if it is all examples)
or the "that's a horrible way to learn to program"...wait, I already had that discussion in here today :)
just about Java this time
dang, already got your answer @AndrasDeak
 
yup, and from Shog, no less;)
At this point, changes to the rep system will be retroactive, @Andras. Still a beta, still in flux. That said, rep system changes are never trivial; we'll talk about this a lot more before anything happens. — Shog9 ♦ 2 mins ago
 
11:25 PM
Hello everyone
 
cbg
 
Something interesting happened in Python with me a couple minutes ago
something that seemed contradictory
>>> x
['1234', '1234567', '1', '23', '10']
>>> for i in x:
...     if len(i)<3:
...             x.remove(i)
...
>>> print x
['1234', '1234567', '23']
Why would the '23' stay, as its length is less than 3?
 
user559633
@daOnlyBG because you're modifying the list you're iterating over.
 
sorry, posted in wrong window - kids distracted
 
user559633
 
11:30 PM
@tristan thanks!
 
user559633
nw
 
try for i in reversed(x) or x[::-1] or something diferent altogether:P
this is might be best with a list comp, see tristan's message below ---v
or even better: put this into where you're using it next, you might not have to store it at all
that kind of list comp is seen uncanny by some, so that might not be the best here, dunno
 
user559633
cough [ my for my in x if len(my) > 3 ]
 
oops, that ^
brings tristan a lozenge
 
👍
 
user559633
11:33 PM
this works because you're building a return. you could do this in an expanded form by inserting into a temporary var
 
@WayneWerner what's with that unicode today? This is the second time today...first was in a comment on main:S
 
I'm on a mac, so....
 
sopy snake is cool, we're bros
but thumbs up emoji...........
maybe it's just me and my burning hatred towards emojis ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
it's a clicky snake now
:)
rbrb
 
rhubarb
 
didn't you make the snake
 
user559633
 
user559633
this one?
 
that's the best one
 

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