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12:00 PM
Oh like that
 
@BigByte hello
 
Well, up to you :-)
 
Close votes are feedback, sure, but it's easier to delete a comment that no longer applies than to reopen a post because the close reason no longer applies.
 
@RobertGrant started from my hello world program to other simple programs. is django a good python framework? (for starters)
 
It's a python web framework
It's fine to start with, yeah. Lots of documentation.
 
12:02 PM
MVC?
 
@Kevin that is very true. But how to keep track of those questions and comments?
 
@BigByte in the way you're thinking of it, yes.
Although they'd probably call it MVT
 
@RobertGrant T means?
 
Some people will star posts* when they think "I must remember to come back later and see if the OP has made any changes". Of course, this only works well if your starred list isn't already populated with other stuff.
(*not to be confused with starring messages in chat)
 
Yeah I fill mine with useful posts
 
12:05 PM
A lot of the time when I leave feedback, the OP will ping me when he makes an update.
 
@RobertGrant I reckon in this case, half an hour or so is more than enough. It's not like we're asking the OP to code up an MCVE. Posting a question & then disappearing is bad etiquette, IMHO. stackoverflow.com/questions/29844709/…
 
Although now that I think about it, if he didn't ping me, I'd never know, so for all I know I'm neglecting 99% of OPs that make changes...
 
@PM2Ring lol they could be eating lunch or anything :)
Most sites don't expect you to keep hitting refresh on a question; you'll check in once or twice a day
 
SO is not just another site <3
 
morning everyone
 
12:07 PM
@Kevin Sometimes I favourite the question, but generally I make a (hopefully constructive) comment, and use those comments to track the questions.
morning, corvid
 
Hello
 
@TimCastelijns sure; I just mean we're probably some of the most active people on SO; people, especially beginners, can't be expected to be like that.
 
I agree
 
...good. Right, then! :)
I don't know what to do when someone agrees with me on the internet
 
Would it make you feel any better if I'd pretend I was lying or something
 
12:11 PM
Yes please.
 
cbg
 
Thanks @PM2Ring ;)
 
hmm I guess I cant force the python GC to run at a specific level?
 
In that case: I think beginners should spend at least 6 hours per day on SO, to learn extra fast!
 
@TimCastelijns damn you Tim! How DARE you disagree with me!
happy
 
12:14 PM
I'm not used to people disagreeing with me on the internet :-(
 
@paul23 You can manually cause a collection to occur, but I don't think you can make it run more often automatically or anything. Check out the gc module for more information.
 
nvm found set_treshold
@Kevin Didn't expect there to be a complete module
 
There are few things Python does not have a module for
 
@TimCastelijns this could become a good example of livelock :)
 
If we keep going, however my program just executed return toWork
It's a function full of bugs and errors
Often crashes
 
12:22 PM
@RobertGrant Is this the right room for an argument?
 
I...dunno? :)
 
Oh, sorry :)
 
12:37 PM
@PM2Ring No it isn't. I'm sorry, is this a 5 minute argument or a full half hour?
 
Jinja2 has the best template inheritance
 
heh I wonder, in latex one can "load modules with options", such as font size and paper size - is there something similar in python (and can I get those options for my own modules)?
 
@MartijnPieters The full half hour, I'm not going to get tricked like Terry Jones was...
 
@paul23 you mean like customizing an import statement?
 
like: import myClass [debug = true, logfile = "...."]
 
12:43 PM
AFAIK that's not possible
 
Hmm I guess I could add an "init" function to the modules that set some global variables
 
But you can always 'customize' it after having imported it
Yeah
 
@paul23 Is this module a stand-alone .py file, or is it in a package?
 
@PM2Ring sorry, there must be a mistake then since it is now my lunch break. Goodbye!
 
Just my own python files
 
12:47 PM
@MartijnPieters :)
 
Sometimes I wish my classes to have extensive (ie when I load a single huge file of 100mb) at other times I read many files and I just wish the reading to not show the current line etc etc.
 
to have extensive... What?
 
@paul23 Ok, but you can take advantage of the Package machinery to do stuff to modules you import. OTOH, explicit initialization via a function in the module is probably more straight-forward, and easier for people reading your code to figure out what's going on.
 
Guess that's true: following the old saying about roman peole...
 
They're in Rome?
 
12:51 PM
Well when you're in rome you have to follow their weirdnesses
 
No Robert, in ancient Rome, people were already saying "it's more straightforward to explicitly initialize a class via functions, and also makes it easier to read"
 
@TimCastelijns XD
@RobertGrant I personally always saw module as "classes" themselves
 
And if you consider that, a (default) constructors to load modules is not weird
 
12:53 PM
@paul23 I'm starting to think that maybe it's not the Romans who are weird
We're the Romans, right?
 
@TimCastelijns They have functions (methods?), their own "global" variables (members?), and need to be loaded (constructed?).
 
@paul23: You might find this demo I wrote of a dynamically extensible class interesting... or totally confusing. :) stackoverflow.com/a/26623508/4014959
 
Become a premium backer ($20) of KevinScript, and I'll add "import statements may have configuration options" to the language specification.
Hurry, slots are running out!
 
@Kevin PLEASE make it a kickstarter
* warning: not all elements of the language specification may make it into the final product
 
Remember to come back daily and vote in the "what feature should I implement next?" poll. One dollar per vote.
@RobertGrant Only if no other programming language has ever had a kickstarter, and the pure novelty of the idea causes it to go viral and I make ten million dollars
 
12:58 PM
@paul23 Well, everything in Python is an object, and that includes modules: docs.python.org/3/c-api/module.html
 
@Kevin just cut me in for 10% of everything over $1m
 
@paul23 they may have functions ;-)
 
@PM2Ring Wouldn't I be able to overload the module constructor then inside a module?
 
@paul23 you forgot one thing: modules also have classes
 
@RobertGrant objects can also have subclasses
 
12:59 PM
@paul23 You could, but people will hate you. :)
 
@paul23 what would you say classes in modules inherit from modules?
 
@PM2Ring So "romans" don't expect modules to behave exactly as objects. Because for objects it is generally accepted you use a constructor, instead of delayed construction... right?
@RobertGrant Nah I would say: "modules HAVE classes" (as members)
 
@paul23 agreed, but then your analogy of subclasses is broken
 
They don't have to have classes though
 
morning cabbages @all
 
1:02 PM
@RobertGrant classes can also HAVE subclasses? - at least I wrote that?
class ptw_file(object):
	class Deferred(object):
		def __init__(self, initializer):
 
As was said earlier, the simple way to handle options for a module is to have some sort of initialization function that you call after importing the module. Alternatively, give the module a config file, and set parameters in the config file before importing the module. Then the module can read the config file when its loaded & initialize itself accordingly.
 
@paul23 classes tend to have a well-accepted pattern of life. modules behave more like "singleton" classes in most respects. Unless you explicitly need that sort of thing, better to use a class.
 
I found out why there are maximum limits on password length on some sites. If you are using a computationally difficult hashing algorithm with many passes, as you ought to do to help defeat password cracking clusters, then a password that is too long can be used to do a DOS attack on your site.
 
@PM2Ring I get that, no worries :)
 
@paul23 I don't get your point. I'm saying subclassing implies inheritance (amongst other things), so the analogy of class in modules being subclasses is incorrect.
 
1:03 PM
@Wayne makes sense.
 
@wan
...:(
Not even close to what I meant to type
 
@RobertGrant it does (given the quick example above of ptw_file.Deferred - does Deferred imply any inheritance to ptw_file?)
^that's an actual question btw
 
this room needs more music again
 
@WayneConrad I know, just calculate the hash once for each password, and store the results in a table so you don't have to do it again. :v
 
1:07 PM
:)
 
And then pray really really hard that no hacker ever gets their hands on plaintext_passwords_and_their_hashes.tbl
 
Or the sticky notes.
 
Might want to put that server in a room with a lock on the door.
 
Now that's just crazy talk.
 
@MartijnPieters yep, I missed the code change, just thought they were needlessly adding some words. Usually I read the comment, so not sure why I missed it.
 
1:13 PM
cbg
 
@davidism not a problem, just saw you were one of the reviewers on the suggestion. It was easily remedied by fixing my post.
 
Doc
hi all, how can i dinamycally add manytomany items with get_or_create in django? stackoverflow.com/questions/29622341/…
 
And also, what do you do when a plugin you're using uses Mako templates, and you're using something else
My plan so far is to rewrite them all in jinja2
 
Post a 'question' on SO asking for someone to rewrite it for you. That never fails
 
Hah yeah, good idea
Or on that site @MartijnPieters always links to - It's IMPOSSIBLE to rewrite Mako templates as Jinja2! The only way to disprove this is to rewrite the following templates.
 
Doc
1:20 PM
@TimCastelijns i really can't get how to make it work... and i didn't find any example of similar usecases...
 
@Doc sorry, that wasn't directed at you
 
Doc
@TimCastelijns oh, ok :D
 
Anyway I have zero experience with Django
 
Curse you razor burn! If only I didn't have such luxuriously soft and delicate skin D:
 
Doc, Django experts do frequent this room, but they might be busy right now.
 
1:26 PM
Lol I just noticed that I stored something weirdly - which caused way too much memory used a list with factors was stored like this:
[[], [0.0199], [0.0482, 0.0199], [0.0629, 0.0482, 0.0199] , .....]
oops
 
<-- too dumb to understand the mistake
 
Looks like he wanted a single list with N elements, rather than N lists with 0,1,2,3...N elements each
 
Doc
@PM2Ring ok thanks, can i relink the question later?
 
@Kevin well those numbers are just factors that are quite "costly" to calculate (talking about up to a minute to create the full list of N elements). So now that I notice I can actually reduce the list of (N^2+N)/2 to N elements that should speed up things .
 
1:40 PM
I didn't really think this justifies a question so maybe someone here can help. I know how to generate random numbers, but I'm not sure how I take those, and put them inside of a list.
 
Shlemiel the painter's pedicurist thanks you
 
@KernelPanic you can define an empty list, set up a loop that keeps looping until you have the amount of random numbers you want, append each number to the list inside the loop, after the loop they will all be in the list
 
@KernelPanic [random.randint(1, 100) for i in range(1, 100)]
 
@TimCastelijns I guess I could use a while loop for that.
while (count < 101):
 
@KernelPanic or do what @mpthrapp said
 
1:47 PM
Yes. or for i in range(100): or similar
 
@KernelPanic You could use a while, but this makes more sense as a for loop, because you know how many iterations you're going to need before you start the loop.
 
Hey @paul23 - did you get your spline integration sorted? Wondered if my post on it was helpful or not (I'm kinda interested in the whether you solved it and, if so, the method you used in the end)
 
randoms = [random.randint(lower_bound, upper_bound) for _ in range(100)]
To put it a barely different way that might make more sense
 
@JRichardSnape Well I have to admit I don't have time for that right now. (It's a side project, and I'm suddenly burried in a lot of work to get this thermography working as I need to finish a report in 2 weeks, and I have not yet any idea what to analyse). Thanks for the replies though!
 
@paul23 OK - just musing on the possibilities, no particular rush.
 
1:53 PM
I screwed something up. The shell is stuck spamming "<function number at 0x02C72780>".
 
hit ctrl+c
 
"File "C:\Python34\lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 1347, in write return self.shell.write(s, self.tags)"
Not sure why it's endlessly looping.
 
The loop never ends because you don't increment count
Use a for loop instead.
 
Alright.
 
And it's printing "function" instead of a number because you're not actually calling the number function.
 
1:55 PM
Also, number is a function, you are printing that function, not the number in the loop
 
@KernelPanic, Also, in your print, you're not calling number(). You're printing the function object "number"
 
Anything we collectively say three times must be true :-D
 
Ya I was starting to notice that patern lol.
 
It works in ghost stories.
 
"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."
--The Hunting of the Snark
 
1:58 PM
There we go. print (number())
 
@KernelPanic try the code I pasted above as an alternative
Or at least have a look and see if it makes sense :)
 
(it might be a trap)
 
@RobertGrant I will. Just trying to do my own work as shite as it may be. Thank god the semester is nearly over.
I have math to look forward to over the summer. Fun times ahead.
 
"trying to do my own work" are some of the sweetest words ever heard around SO.
 
These assignments are supposed to be the fun part of the semester :-P
 
1:59 PM
@KernelPanic totally agree with that philosophy; I'm the same :)
 
The good news is after I finish up my AS I'm allowed to get a gerbil. So there's that at least.
 
@KernelPanic What level/kind of math, if you don't mind me asking?
(Nosy math major here :P)\
 
What kind? :-P
 
@DonkeyKong Some remedial level stuff unfortunately. The pride in me wanted to reject it, but I honestly think I need it to some extent.
 
@KernelPanic also a good thing :) You can stay.
 
2:02 PM
@TimCastelijns Was that for me?
 
@TimCastelijns Degree? Computer Programming and Analysis. Then eventually a BS in Computer Science.
If I could do it all over again I would have worked my ass off to do dual-enrollment. No sense in dwelling on the past though.
 
user559633
I think what's so addictive about helping people over IRC is that once they cross into time-vampire, start being bullheaded, or won't show their work, it's so easy to say "lol nevermind gl hf"
 
user559633
It's like being at a day job, but with the option to say "haha i don't care anymore" without consequence
 
Pure math, Actuarial Science, and Mathematical Finance, triple major. But busy right now writing Actuarial Science exams (still not really sure why), those are somewhat entertaining.
 
2:04 PM
Hello Python Community, I have installed Python 2.7 and Osgeo4w in my PC. How can I make gdal openable from Python, i.e., import gdal?
 
@KernelPanic when you said Thank god the semester is nearly over. I got the feeling you're not really into programming, but you're going to to a BSc in CS
 
@TimCastelijns Oh. I don't say that due to the programming. I do enjoy the challenge, but I'm just sick of 3 hour long lectures about dead guys personally.
 
@KernelPanic Oh, that I understand
 
user559633
Where do you study that the CompSci curriculum is that history heavy?
 
@DonkeyKong sounds interesting :-) and really hard
 
2:06 PM
It's not so much heavy, but just long, and not interesting to me. I made the mistake of taking a night course that takes until about 10PM.
"Western Humanities: Ancient to Renaissance"
 
@KernelPanic Did this with a first year economics class, worst decision of my life haha
@TimCastelijns It's not too bad. The statistics can get a little dry.
 
Thanks for the heads up guys
 
Also I get to present my "master piece" to the class on the last day despite not having an artistic bone in my body.
 
You can never go wrong with art, can you? There's always at least 1 person who finds it beautiful, no?
 
You say that, but clearly you've never seen me draw. ;)
 
2:08 PM
My electives were economics 101, law 101, and ancient Sumerian artwork. I don't think I remember anything from any of them.
 
I get that it doesn't work like that in school :-P if the teacher isn't into it, it sucks
In what profession could you possibly have the need to know about ancient Sumerian artwork :s? Apart from ancient Sumerian artwork teacher
 
Oh, I learned that you can't be bound by a contract if you were obviously joking when you agreed to it. Which comes in handy when I make promises in here regarding the construction of orbital space stations etc
 
user559633
Art dealer, museum curator, author
 
user559633
and lol at the idea of a college degree being related to a job for most fields
 
If you want to write Lovecraft-esque fiction about the dread god Moloch, you better damn well be up-to-date on dead cultures.
 
2:11 PM
If you want to understand the sopython-dev projects, you better understand the Sumerian religion!
 
@tristan didn't mean it like that :-)
 
user559633
Well, how did you mean it?
 
user559633
You come in here talking shit on Sumerian artwork, so I just assume you're ready to back those words up.
 
What's the old saying. STEM degrees teach you how to be a professional in that field. Humanities degrees teach you how to be a well-rounded person.
 
Trash talking Sumeria's many notable artists. What a dick move.
 
2:12 PM
I am not :-( I would like to apologize to everyone for my ignorance
 
@Kevin STEM also teaches you stuff you can't pick up easily from Wikipedia.
 
user559633
@TimCastelijns That's more like it.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant And that's a favorite.
 
user559633
STEM: for when your job isn't easily staffed
 
Or has measurable consequences
 
2:13 PM
@Tim I should point out to you (as you're relatively new) that tristan here is a dick, and so don't take anything he says too personally.
 
Alright. So to make a new list I do "L = list()". Then I use "list.append(obj)"? What do I do with the return "(random.randrange(1,101))" then?
 
user559633
STEM: Sumerian, Technology, Education, Mathematics
 
It's not so much knowledge of Sumerian culture that's useful. It's the skills you pick up along the way - researching obscure data, writing coherent arguments.
 
@tristan lol
 
That kind of thing.
 
user559633
2:14 PM
Appreciation of Summer
 
@KernelPanic Conventionally, empty lists are created with name_goes_here = []
 
user559633
I'm going on the assumption that Sumerians are people who were born in summer.
 
But yeah, list() works too. It's just not idiomatic.
 
Sumeria Glau
(Makes no sense)
 
I get it.
 
2:15 PM
Serious Talk: Does anyone know of a good tab manager for Chrome?
 
Insofar as there's anything to get.
 
@RobertGrant SCC?
 
Well I tried "list.append(print (number()))", and Python says "TypeError: descriptor 'append' requires a 'list' object but received a 'NoneType'".
 
@Kevin charity and then smackdown. It's the verbal equivalent of helping your opponent up and then dropping them.
@KernelPanic your list isn't initialised
also, I hope you're not saying list as the name of your list
 
@KernelPanic list.append won't work unless list is the name of your list. Did you mean L.append?
 
2:16 PM
Also, don't append the result of the print function unless you really mean to
 
@Ffisegydd thanks, noted
 
And you almost never mean to, since print(thing) returns None after it's done rendering stuff to stdout
 
I have to go, guys
@TimCastelijns apologies if you were offended; just joking about Sumeria. It's a certain style of humour :)
Rbrb
 
I thought the append function would just keep adding until it got to 100. That's what I was meaning to do.
 
Yes, that is what append does. It adds to the list.
 
2:18 PM
Oh I get it. I just had to remove print.
 
@RobertGrant I was just double checking if you were talking about summer glau, from SCC. I'm not offended in any way
 
@RobertGrant Speaking of Summer Glau...
 
That feels so rewarding lol.
 
Shall I compare thee to a Summer Glau?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Worse art thou at ballet, and thine brow
Has never broken any reaver's pate
Thou art less morbid, yet more creepifying
No horde of nerds profess their love for thee
Thou art not a term'nator undying
Thou dost not travel 'pon Serenity
Thou dost not consort with Angels fair
And never hast thou shared in Echo's strife
And yet, thy blow doth cause me to declare
"I've never been so turned on in my life"
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see
 
2:20 PM
Looking good. (the code, not Summer Glau. (Rather, Summer Glau may or may not be looking good, I'm just not talking about here in my non-parenthetical statement))
 
@KernelPanic you don't have to wrap a return statement in parentheses
It makes it return a tuple (?) instead of a number
 
@TimCastelijns Does Python just ignore those?
 
Nah, it still returns a number. It would only be a tuple if there was a comma at the end.
 
(some_expression_goes_here) is syntactically equivalent to some_expression_goes_here
 
user559633
2:22 PM
@Ffisegydd man who throw cat out window make kitty litter
3
 
Ah I see.
I get this feeling that if I'm struggling with Python that C++ is going to kick my ass.
 
(now some smarty pants is going to come back and say "well then, why does some_function(some_value) work and some_function some_value doesn't?". Be charitable please, you know what I mean)
 
Oops I made a mistake. It only makes it a tuple if you do return (number,)
 
user559633
@KernelPanic Eh. Python is good at teaching you understand what you're trying to do. C++ is good at teaching you its syntax.
 
@tristan Huh. I remember when I was learning QBasic, and I thought that was hard.
 
2:24 PM
Aghh, in the middle of a chunk of probability problems I was studying involving heavy mathematics, I came across a pure logic question, virtually no math required. Completely stumped me for half an hour while I tried to write a formal proof -_- losing my sanity.
 
A lot of general programming knowledge is transferable between languages, so you may as well get the simple misconceptions out of the way with the simple language, before moving on to a complicated language. That way, you don't have to tackle the simple misconceptions and the hard misconceptions simultaneously.
 
@TimCastelijns The parentheses around the value you're returning don't hurt, but they aren't required, so they just add to visual clutter. But more importantly, doing return(some_value) looks like a function call, and return is NOT a function.
 
Finished my presentation preparation. Just need to rehearse it now.
 
I know
 
@Kevin Ya I've heard the first one is always the hardest.
 
2:26 PM
I'd say the first three are hardest, after which you start to notice the patterns and similarities.
 
I would say I've got one to go, but I think I'd be laughed off if I put QBasic as programming experience on my resume.
 
I was taught C# first, then C. I was unpleasantly surprised that C has no strings like C# does
 
"all three languages I've studied so far require you to add parentheses to the end of a function name if you want to execute it, but only two of them require you to explicitly describe the type of a variable during instantiation". This kind of observation gives you clues as to which conventions are near-universal, and which aren't
 
@TimCastelijns I figured you'd know that return's not a function, I was mostly using your post as a convenient linking point.
 
Ruby doesn't require () for a function call :s
 
2:28 PM
Very glad I wrote "near-" before universal then :-D
 
@PM2Ring understood
 
Welp time to finish up. Now I have to have my program sort the evens, and odds then get the sums of each.
 
Hot tip: use the % operator.
 
I know. I did do a bit of research prior :P.
 
@TimCastelijns And using () for a function call in PostScript would just give you a string. :)
 
2:30 PM
Now that I think of it isn't SE kind of like a giant universal debugger?
 
Strings are always good
 
Delphi doesn't require () for a function call either.
 
And neither does TI-83+ Basic :-)
 
@KernelPanic we try very hard not to turn it into that
 
(although you have to squint really hard at the specification to see anything resembling "functions")
 
2:31 PM
@TimCastelijns Eh... I could see how that might come across as sort of offensive. It is somewhat of a forum too I guess.
 
It's actually kinda frustrating, because people in my office have a habit of doing "if Found" where it turns out that Found is a function call instead of a status variable. :/
 
If C# and Python and Javascript all have X language convention, then it's near-universal. Spare me your weird obscure languages. </s>
 
The real question is, what does Haskell do?
 
a question; whilst using matplotlib , I need to plot values against specific names (5 unique names). The problem is that I can't use the name directly and need to convert it to a factor using categorical like:

pd.Categorical(dfA['DiseaseName'].values).codes

Doesn't work!! it allots any number to a name :(
 
In Bash & its relatives function definitions can use (), but they aren't used in function calls. And of course Haskell doesn't use () in function calls.
 
2:33 PM
@KernelPanic I meant it more like, we don't want everyone coming to SO with questions like "plz debug my program for me"
 
@mpthrapp Haskell does weird shit. <- that answer applies to most features of Haskell. :)
 
I'll debug strangers' code all day, as long as they give me the precious MCVE.
 
@TimCastelijns True. The interpreter (or IED? I forget the name) does that for syntax errors at least.
 
@PM2Ring Yeah, no kidding. I tried learning it once, but I don't have a formal CS education and I just got totally lost.
 
@KernelPanic Yep but that's about all it does as far as debugging goes
Also, IDLE I think it what you meant
 
2:35 PM
@KernelPanic IED is Improvised Explosive Device. Maybe you're thinking of Integrated Development Environment, IDE :-)
 
@TimCastelijns I kind of wish that some of Python's error messages were a bit less cryptic, but that's par for the course I guess.
 
I guess an IED would also make syntax errors "go away"
 
@Kevin Yes IDE is it.
 
Once you dive into C++, you will find Python's error messages are a blessing to the world
 
@KernelPanic The error messages that most commonly trip up new users are SyntaxErrors, because they frequently report the wrong line number.
 
2:37 PM
Better than that, you'll never (well, probably never) get a core dump. Instead, always a nice stack trace.
 
I remember on OS X they had this weird thing in the console where you could have a limited conversation with it.
 
Hot tip: inspect the lines just above the reported line too, especially to look for unterminated parentheses and quote marks.
 
@Kevin I guess that is a IDLE, or Python bug?
I've noticed that a few times.
 
I don't think it classifies as a bug
 
It's not so much a bug as it is an unfortunate reality. The computer would need human level intelligence to determine exactly where a syntax error was happening.
 
2:38 PM
@mpthrapp That's evil. Tell them if they want to do that sort of shit they need to use some kind of naming convention to easily distinguish function names from simple variables.
 
@Kevin At least it tries to highlight the area so you can find it.
 
Yeah it's usually a missing ) or : on the line directly above
 
@PM2Ring I agree. Right now I'm working on trying to get them to use DVCS and any sort of consistent indentation. There's only so many battles I can fight. :/
 
@mpthrapp Haskell is intriguing, but trying to learn it almost reduced me to tears. But I might give it another go, sometime... FWIW, Haskell doesn't need grouping symbols around function args because Haskell functions can only take a single arg.
 
That's sad and cool at the same time
 
2:41 PM
@PM2Ring Huh. I did not know that. The next language I want to pick up is Nim, I just wish the ecosystem was a little more mature.
 
The only thing I learned from Haskell tutorials is that you can use reduce in Python to chain multiple function calls together on a single argument.
 
@PM2Ring It curries everything?
 
Which I have used precisely once in actual non-toy code.
 
I'm learning Rust now, but Julia is next on the list.
 
@WayneConrad Yep.
 
2:43 PM
Julia that's an interesting name for a language
 
What do you expect from a language named after Haskell Curry?
 
@PM2Ring Haha! Oh. Of course!
 
This might be a meta question, but is there an IRC interface for this chat room? Or XMPP?
 
No IRC, no. Apparently logging in with a Stack Exchange ID is a pain in the butt
I don't know what XMPP is, so no comment
 
So it's just webchat, then?
 
2:44 PM
@TimCastelijns It's named after the Julia set. Or, rather, the mathematician who discovered it. It's supposed to be the answer to "We like doing numerical stuff with Python, but want a language designed explicitly for it." Although it's aimed at mathematicians, it looks to me like a very nice general purpose language.
 
@WayneConrad that sounds pretty interesting
 
I believe @davidism and @JonClements have toyed with reverse-engineering the chat protocol in the past, but I don't think they have any consumer-ready products.
 
Yeah, I saw the posts they made on SO, but they said they didn't have anything and there hasn't been any activity in 3 years.
 
There is a mobile version of chat floating around somewhere, FWIW
Never used it myself.
 
2:46 PM
It's more that I have a small monitor and I want to throw the chat into my already open IRC client.
 
Julia is good stuff
 
It's a custom chat using stackauth and websockets, there's no api.
 
Has some silly speed. Think they managed to hand pick an example that was faster than C.
 
Completely unrelated to this discussion, ugh, the postscript file generated by Tkinter.canvas.postscript has mixed tab and space indentation.
 
@Ffisegydd I saw that. It's very impressive.
 
2:49 PM
How I hate thee, Tkinter. And yet... gazes longingly into heart-shaped locket
 
anyone here have a mac? My terminal is being weird, wondering if it happens for anyone else
 
Not currently, but I work on a mac when I'm at work
 
user559633
I have a mac, what's up @corvid
 
@corvid yes but not able to access it atm. Give me 20.
Also I use iTerm. It's good stuff.
 
Alright now for some reason the formatting isn't quite right: ideone.com/LxCrEs.
 
2:51 PM
@KernelPanic You're calling sort after the print.
 
@KernelPanic If you're in Python 3, everything you want to print has to go inside the parens
 
@KernelPanic Also, you should really have main return a list instead of modifying a global list.
 
print(a),b, wrong. print(a,b), right
 
@tristan does control-a | split the terminal vertically? man screen seems to imply it should
 
Oh, and style nitpick: there should be no space between print and (
 
user559633
2:53 PM
@corvid oh, you're asking about screen and not terminal.
 
And sort should really take an argument instead of picking up a global.
 
@corvid It does.
 
Actually I don't need to do print(item) that is kind of redundant.
 
@WayneConrad that's weird... mine doesn't
 
user559633
@corvid do ^a ^? to see your bindings
 
2:55 PM
Have you tried picking the mac up and blowing in the vents. Works for my NES cartridges.
 
^ is shift?
 
@KernelPanic yes. That made it appear as if all the items were even
 
@corvid control-a, then question-mark.
 
Style nitpick continued: It's fine to have a main function which contains all your code that doesn't fit in a function. It's also fine to just let all that code hang out in the global scope, inside no function at all. But it's kind of weird to have a main function and code outside of any function.
 
Also, you have count defined but you never use it.
 
2:56 PM
nope, just beeps
 
Sheesh... ok I removed print(list), but it's still not displaying the even, and odd numbers. It's just dumping the numbers on their own lines.
 
@corvid Either you are not in screen, or yours has custom bindings.
 
Actually it's not even displaying them anymore.
 
@KernelPanic that's because you print the empty lists before you call the function to sort
 
@corvid What about control-a "
Do you have a ~/.screenrc file? What's in it?
 
user559633
2:59 PM
^a+? reads from the ~/.screenrc @WayneConrad
 

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