last day (54 days later) » 

20:34
FIRST
THIRD
:P
Wewt
Yay, this is going to be good, I have a feeling. Though it could just be the tacos from earlier tonight. Meh.
mm tacos
20:35
Haha, beautiful thing is at the new company (thought I wont have a ton of time at first). We get "Hack Fridays" where I can work on anything I'd like. So Sky.NET here I come ;)
lol nice
This is like the moment when you invent something while high, and it's a really great idea... until tomorrow.
Ok, so how do we start this? As I said I have no idea how to interact with the chat system of SO/SE, so I would have no idea how to start.
We need a skeleton project up.
@KendallFrey - So you are saying your high right now
That is awesome, my company just told me to ignore like four defects. Apparently the project manager likes these defects.
20:36
Nope :P
@LasseV.Karlsen Take a look at Ninja Echo. The Web classes get you a good skeleton.
@EvanL That's not what I meant, the project repo need a kickstart.
Yes, the C# for Ninja Echo basically has the auth code you need
Then look at the JS Ninja Echo for chat interaction
Still not what I meant.
We can't be 5 guys writing the initial code.
Where is the repo?
20:37
True :P
So how do we start.
So on a serious note, we need to organize.
2
I won't be contributing code tonight
What environment is the bot itself going to run in?
OK, then decisions then.
Who owns the repo? On which account do we set it up?
20:38
@TravisJ as a console app, at least that how I envisioned Ninja Echo
I can set it up, unless someone else wants.
I vote Lasse
second that
A console app. Okay. Does that sound good?
Third
20:39
Since he will be hosting the bot (it seems)
OK, so I set up a github project for it then?
@KendallFrey Good point.
@TravisJ Sounds good since it will be interacted with in that way. Seems a logical environment.
@LasseV.Karlsen Yeah.
20:39
@LasseV.Karlsen Yup, create an empty repo and we all can clone it
Someone will probably need to take charge of writing the base HTTP stuff code
I can do that tomorrow if need be
I probably will not be able to contribute until early next week (monday). I have alot going on this weekend. But I will certainly try to get some in.
Cloning
I will start populating it with some project structure
Are we going for the latest .NET version?
20:41
4.5 at least, no?
at least
4.5! :)
I mean, this isn't a class library, why settle for less?
brb in a few.
20:42
what about solution version?
I sent 4.5! :) and it turned into 4.5% :)
At least 2012 I say
Have to go over some features with a user.
4.5 indeed.
4.5! :)
that was really strange
20:43
Requires 3 flipped bits, so it couldn't have been a cosmic ray
wait, no
vs12 would be nice
I have both 2012 and 2013, so 2012 would be fine.
no, 1?
gaah
I have only 2013, what would happen if I created the initial solution and some projects? Would 2012 not be able to open those files?
20:45
@LasseV.Karlsen I think 2012 to 2013 is fine, it is 2010 to 2012/2013 that is evil.
Probably not, I can always install 13 at home on my surface
So should I go ahead and we'll see how it goes?
We can always fix it
Okay
@LasseV.Karlsen Sure, why not.
I use 2010 =( But I guess I can upgrade... just don't have anything better than express
20:46
@EvanL - There is nothing wrong with express
I think we can manage just fine with Express
Well next week I will have 2013 pro so no biggie.
@EvanL I like 2013, it is pretty slick.
It's basically 2012 DLC
ok, so I pushed a skeleton set of projects and a solution, let me know if it doesn't work and we'll fix that before moving on.
20:52
We should think about our class structure and internal APIs
Check out github.com/kendfrey/Ninja-Echo and find the good and the bad
That was all the time I had today, will check more of this out later and try to get a vs13 instance installed at home
If you guys make some interfaces tonight, I think I can work on implementing them tomorrow
We still need a better outline, don't we? So we can distribute the work better?
21:05
I'm all for just diving in, but alot of us haven't worked with this style project so we will need to clearly outline, detail, and collaborate to ensure we work well and produce a product we are all proud of.
You know what, I think I have some unpushed changes to Ninja Echo on my hard disk
I'll have to review them to see if they're useful
I've pushed a few more changes, to get a skeleton bot class up, with a logging system. You will have to punch me if you disagree with anything of it :)
Does any of you use ReSharper?
Travis? Greg?
If I have to use Resharper for this project, I quit
jk... I think
21:13
I wasn't even remotely considering forcing you to do anything :)
@LasseV.Karlsen I use ReSharper on one of my machines.
@LasseV.Karlsen What up?
@LasseV.Karlsen I like the idea of a logging system, so it creates a history.
Would any of you mind if I used ReSharper annotations with it? Basically I would retrofit methods with attributes to specify if null is allowed or not, and add necessary code to handle requirements. Basically I would use ReSharper to help me be a janitor in code quality. Would anyone object, as long as I don't force anyone to use it?
@LasseV.Karlsen Fine with me, I'm a stickler about appearance. I'm really guilty of not using {} though.
I'm not really a fan
I would keep it simple for now
@LasseV.Karlsen That is fine with me. I'm going to miss my ReSharper when I go to VS2013 =( BUT again... I will have VS2013 pro in a week.
21:15
I'll hold off for now then :)
I'm back now btw... bug free! Yay!
We'll see how it goes, anyway, skeleton classes pushed. Clone and fork and enjoy.
So this solution will not open in 2010 correct?
I had an idea, we should have our bot actually create a database of inquiries based on the room it is in. That way it can develop responses or know when it is being abused.
@EvanL No idea to be honest, but I doubt it. .NET 4.5 is probably too new for VS2010 to even cope with the syntax, let alone opening the project.
21:17
@EvanL It won't open.
lol I will give it a shot, but I doubt it as well.
@Greg Cleverbot style? That sounds really tricky
@EvanL It can open some of it, but some of it will cause it to have errors.
@KendallFrey Yeah, but would be really useful.
@Greg Define "database".
@LasseV.Karlsen I was using the term database, as it stores data. The bot can essentially check queries against itself not only for commands, but history, to state items back and etc.
21:19
Since this chatbot is going to be 1 instance running somewhere, an SQLite database with a knowledge history is not all that much to add.
I can easily drop in code into the repo to handle all that and layer it away from the rest of the code.
Side-note, any of you familiar with Trello?
@LasseV.Karlsen So we doing to do a SQL Express then?
@LasseV.Karlsen No, what is that?
SQL Server Express is fine too, the code I would drop would handle either to be honest.
Not familiar with Trello
Trello is a "post-it" type task management system, think scrum-board with post-it notes.
OK, never mind then.
@LasseV.Karlsen I think Express is a Single-Processor 10GB limit which is better than Lite.
21:21
@LasseV.Karlsen RE your earlier question, I do use ReSharper and love it, but if others are opposed, I don't care.
@Greg Abuse checking? abuse is pretty subjective. It would probably take years to get it right
@KendallFrey Is it that hard to see if a bunch of users keep typing !!jordan !!jordan !!jordan
Going to grab VS2013. Should I get Web or windows? Windows right since this is console?
Like all within a five or ten minute span?
@EvanL No idea really, I just installed "Professional" from my account. :P
21:22
@EvanL Just download professional, it has a free 90day trial then put your key in once you actually get it.
Can't do 2012 or 2013 pro until the 27th.
@Greg No, but it gets complicated
It's like comparing Ninja Echo's Should command to full-blown NLP libs
Oh right... duh lol. Sorry i'm being pulled in a hundred directions right now (at work ish) ;)
@KendallFrey Not worth the endeavor?
Not IMO
We can make commands to ignore users or turn itself off
21:23
@KendallFrey You have to admit, it is annoying when the same command is spouted every fourth line.
@KendallFrey That would be nice, we could even do a check that determines the frequency of request occurring with the same command.
I agree that we should just implement commands to allow ignore / shut down rather than trying to make it manage itself.
there should be 2 ways to shut it down
you can issue a command to it, to shut down, or restart
and there should be a way from another process on the same machine to shut it down safely
But I will ponder that problem, because I will need to integrate that with the automatic build and redeploy system.
I wish dedicated servers weren't so expensive.
By the way, I mean not actually stopping the process, but just what Caprica's !!die and !!live do
When you do !!die, it stops responding to everything, but !!live, and when you do !!live it starts listening again
How much will a 24/7 azure server cost?
21:35
Don't think they are cheap...
That's not an exact amount :)
Lol - Hang on can probably find out
What would we be hosting? VM?
@LasseV.Karlsen It is based on usage.
Windows VM + bot process
define "usage"?
cpu cycles? uptime?
user3502455
hi
21:38
@LasseV.Karlsen Per minute usage, if a query runs and takes ten minutes to execute your charged ten minutes.
That's still not useful. A query can "wait" for 10 minutes and not really occupy any cpu cycles.
@EvanL Just about to link to that.
user3502455
hello?
@Bobthezealot Hello.
21:40
It looks like 1 VM with 768MB memory and 1GHz cpu will cost ~$13 per month.
If we decide to run it on azure, and that is the cost, then it's not a problem at all.
user3502455
hi
user3502455
sup
@Bobthezealot Can we help you?
user3502455
what are we talking about?
Super secret government projects >.> An agent will be at your doorstep shortly.
21:42
@LasseV.Karlsen That is without a database though.
Storage cost extra above the cost of the Virtual Machine.
Don't really know how to make the azure pricing calculator factor in an SQL database, seems the only thing I can specify is the size of a blob database. Can you persuade it to do different?
user3502455
you know that there is a secret network at a certain place in my house called FBI van network
user3502455
we didn't make it
user3502455
our neighbours didn't make it
It seems that a 2GB SQL database will cost about $2 per month (or slightly less).... wohoo.
user3502455
21:44
and it's always there
@LasseV.Karlsen So about fifteen bucks a month?
About, yes.
So that's not an issue.
@Bobthezealot Are you here to help with Sky.NET?
That isn't too bad, for all the people who are serious to contribute can each pay for a month of service to help offset cost.
user3502455
what is sky.net?
21:45
@KendallFrey I think he is dazzled by our awesome name.
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
@Greg And if not, I'd be happy to fork that out each month for a fun project. No sweat!
Sorry @Bobthezealot We don't want off-topic chat here
@LasseV.Karlsen Okay, well I don't want anyone to be put out. So I'll help, but it is good to know we have some committed people here.
Easy to just set up a paypal target, and then people can contribute if they want to, when they want to.
But that is for the future, for now, let's concentrate on getting a basic bot up and running. We can move it to azure, or anywhere else, when we're ready.
21:48
I'm definitely committed, but can't contribute financially for now.
@LasseV.Karlsen Fair enough.
I do have to restart my computer, so I will be back in a few. VS2013 setup did bad things ;)
@LasseV.Karlsen It's definitely OK to have someone host it on a personal computer for now
Contributing financially should not be a requirement at all. This is a collaboration project code-wise!
And as @KendallFrey just pointed out, I'll put it up on a local server that is always-online for now, and we'll decide on all of that later.
@LasseV.Karlsen Sounds good to me, nice to have our choices later on.
@LasseV.Karlsen I mostly brought up the dedicated server because I'm looking at one for myself, they're so expensive. $200 bucks a month.
21:51
Azure is nice in that regard. You pay for what you use.
(though I would imagine Amazone EC2 would be comparable)
But yes, in time the bot should move to a dedicated server.
@LasseV.Karlsen Yeah, it is. I did a Azure conference here in Portland for a Build Camp. It is quite nice.
There should not be 1 person 100% responsible for "owning" the bot online.
@LasseV.Karlsen Agreed.
@LasseV.Karlsen If we build some cool projects with each other, we might be able to build some more complex cooler projects. I have a personal goal, to become an MVP at some point.
@Greg That is a goal of mine as well... though I fear it will be pushed back because I will have to focus on a couple other languages for a bit at the new job. It's primarily C# but I have to learn c++, Obj-c and Ruby too =(
I wouldn't mind Ruby or C++. Obj-C is blah.
22:06
Yeah... not a fan... but it's not too bad to learn. Especially since ARC
C++ is probably the most valuable thing I'll learn there. Ruby? Meh... but I guess its pretty widely used.
Why do you want to learn ruby?
I don't want to, I just need to know it for the new job, eventually.
Ruby and Rails was a major factor in the Model View Controller implementation that Microsoft built I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong @LasseV.Karlsen
All their forward facing web sites are written in Ruby on Rails.
@Greg Everything I know indicates that that is so. Still, I don't really need to use Ruby in my day-to-day life..
Just curious about the reasons for learning it really.
22:09
So I will have to wait several hours for VS2013 to finish downloading, probably wont get to it till Monday, but what are the next steps for the Bot?
Shall I get a couple Connection classes going? Client etc...
Perhaps, it is still neat.
Might be able to knock a couple out this weekend, not sure thought.
I can provide framework classes for whatever, but I don't know how to interact with the chat system, so someone else will have to write the foundation for that part.
Or copy it from Ninja Echo.
I will probably copy (revise) the Client/Connection classes from Ninja Echo. Kendall will have to provide the login I think.
OK, why don't you start with that then?
22:13
Sounds good. Can't add anything till this thing finishes downloading, but yeah. Should be able to get them up by at least Monday evening.
OK. How should we stay in touch, other than the chat system of Stack Exchange?
Meaning, what if I don't log onto to the chat system before 17:00 tomorrow afternoon, how should you know to get in contact with me for a pull request or whatnot?
I don't mind sharing my personal contact info, or any other means is fine with me just let me know.
How about I create a text file with the email addresses of the contributors for now?
That works.
hmm, it will be a permanent record in the project...
22:15
Is the repo public?
Ah yeah... i would rather post in here than on Github publically lol
We can make it private, it'll cost $7 a month, which is, again, not a problem.
And now I have the hickups :P God da**it!
Too much beer
That could be it.
Though I am leaning towards not enough beer!
22:18
That is always the correct answer ;)
OK, anyway, my email address is [email protected]
Got it.
@Greg @KendallFrey any oposition to sharing your e-mails? We can remove them after everyone has them saved.
If we post them here, we won't need to publish them anywhere else.
In any case, Kendall or Greg can always just email us.
Truth
Lol I think our room name sucks people in ;)
22:23
Hotmail.com still exists?!
Greg, what is your last name, if you don't mind sharing?
Arrigotti
@EvanL I've had that email since 2004
Actually, before that- like 2002.
@LasseV.Karlsen Does it sound familiar?
You mean "Greg"? Yes, it does sound familiar. I have 12 Greg's in my contact list besides you :)
@LasseV.Karlsen No, the last name.
Not at all.
22:27
Just curious?
You should be able to find my email if you try ;)
Kind of like "Arigato" ;)
No, I wanted to differentiate you from the other 12 :)
Oh, haha.
@KendallFrey found it before you posted ;)
22:28
hehe, ok
@KendallFrey Puzzle? Not!
Yeah, I don't care if you share my email
Is there a way to delete our email out of here? So we don't have people like Bob the Zealot bother us?
Not after 2 minutes
Yeah everyone have the addresses?
I'd like to remove mine
22:29
The best you can do is move them to a room that will be deleted
No point in moving them now I don't think
Meh its okay... always can black list people ;)
Dunno if you noticed, but we do have a lurker atm
I never think about that, I consider my email address as public information.
also, huh:

Lounge<C++>

Today we're daydreaming about C++26 reflection
Yeah I saw him...
22:31
@LasseV.Karlsen Same here, it's on my website
and saw that lol
@KendallFrey You saw the flags I gather? :)
nope
Well, I just finished a game completely. collected all items, all missions done on hard
What game?
Crash Time II
22:33
@KendallFrey Pish tosh, nothing compared to this: gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/…
Some old game that was 90% off a couple weeks ago
What is it with people lurking?
Did he leave?
Yeah, I think he timed out, so he probably left before most of the email addresses
@Greg I think they see the room name and are intrigued
@EvanL Perhaps.
22:46
Well, anyway, bedtime for me. Back tomorrow. 'Night!
22:56
Aye I'm out too, have to head home. Probably see everyone on Monday. Excited to get started on this =)

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