As with all automated moderation, there's a risk of encountering false positives or simply posts that require knowing a history. Using auto-flags is your choice. If you do, you should be aware that it might not always pan out as you had imagined. Like in this case, when the post doesn't get auto-nuked before a moderator who doesn't participate in Metasmoke gets to it.
and that previous history cannot be communicated with automatic spam flags, which can't carry additional text and are indistinguishable from manually raised spam flags
then I don't know, other than hoping that the post gets dealt with before your de-contextualized spam flags are seen by a user randomly picked from this list
I looked into the keyword on MS and it's only watched by tripleee. The reason it got autoflagged is because of the username is blacklisted John Wick and speakatoo both in title and in the body + the user was already blacklisted from posting on English SE 2 hours prior
I guess I can remove the blacklist for the username and change it to a watched username, but I kinda want to wait until later
@blackgreen thank you for taking the time to explain the situation, I must admit I agree with you on almost all your points.
I'm not disputing why the post was auto-flagged, nor I'm suggesting to do anything about that particular user being blacklisted. I'm only pointing out that you can't really complain if a spam flag that requires knowing prior history or having access to external privileged information for it to be handled effectively gets declined.
@Starship-OnDiscussionsStrike It does for the spam flag. If the spam is not obvious, it should be raised as a modflag. How exactly do you expect mods to figure out whether the spam flag is valid or not if you've chosen to refuse to give them the knowledge and understanding?
Or do you suggest all spam flags will always be accepted on blind fate? It'd be interesting how that faces off with somebody spam flagging each of your posts and getting them deleted.
Right, therefore when a moderator reviews a spam flag on something that doesn't look like spam unless you know its history, they shouldn't jump to conclusion that it's valid?
@VLAZ they should look if the user and the website has been previously spammed before declining, maybe see if there’s any comments about the post in Charcoal
@Starship-OnDiscussionsStrike I would've expected them to know also, that was actually one of the reasons I wrote here, but I also understand that Charcoal is voluntary and not everyone know about it or have an interest in the subject. It is what it is.
@Cow I didn’t say everyone. Mods handling spam flags are very few people. And “I know it exists” is much different than “I’m an active member of charcoal”.
A mod should not be (and is not) required to use a 3rd party tool (or information that exists only in a 3rd party tool) to handle a flag on-site; if you have non-obvious evidence that a post is spam, you should probably include it in a custom mod flag.
...or risk a spam flag being declined, of course
If you'd like this policy to change, you can raise a post on MSE or MSO, and ask all the mods to agree to it, or use the contact us form to notify the company that you think the moderator agreement should be changed
@Starship-OnDiscussionsStrike I am unable to understand why require mods to jump through more hoops. Why not just supply the information if you have it? Should mods also check Facebook - maybe somebody posted about it there. There are so many sources of why something would be spam. What is the exact reasoning to require the handling of the flag to be more involved and hide information available to you from the handler?
Feel free to write that up as a feature request on Meta because I am not the one who needs to be convinced here.
OK, let me know when that becomes a network-threatening issue. Custom flagging on the rare cases where spam isn't obvious doesn't seem to be a problem right now.
@Starship-OnDiscussionsStrike extremely rare. Now answer me this - why can't handling this wait for five minutes? Or an hour?
Is this a threat to the network?
Like, not "it happens and has to be handled when it does" - is it threatening the whole network or even at least one site if it is not nuked immediately?
I think you might be falling prey to the trap covered by the parable 'the perfect is the enemy of the good'.
But from a purely practical perspective, in this case, a spam flag got declined and that caused the spam to stick around longer, whereas if the post had just been custom flagged with the evidence from Charcoal included in the custom flag explanation, it would've been handled faster
I think all mods know about Charcoal. They just (rightfully) might balk at the idea they should be expected to check/participate in it in order to handle flags
@Starship-OnDiscussionsStrike Mod flags survive deletion, even by red flags
@Cow Most mods do know about Charcoal. But to know some of the "tribal knowledge" that Charcoal regulars do would require a fairly large time commitment above and beyond handling flags. That's not a request most mods will be able to keep
And it's often unlinked in modern spam. You can't expect mods to know all the context surrounding any and all spam terms. Red flags need explicit context or else they're likely to get declined
But then it's just kind of a short circuit when autoflags are used. The system knows it's spam and autoflags. No user is online to give the last flag and then it's declined. I know this doesn't mean anything as long as it's not excessively declined for a user, but It makes me sad to see.
I don't know if it makes sense, I'm struggling here