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2:19 AM
 
 
3 hours later…
5:03 AM
@TylerH Have I closed this page appropriately? stackoverflow.com/q/75797135/2943403
 
 
5 hours later…
10:28 AM
 
10:49 AM
^ I hesitated to use "Needs debugging details" for that one because it's not really a debugging question. But I do think it needs some 'proper' C# code.
... feel free to disagree 'out loud' :)
 
11:06 AM
@AdrianMole Can a RO bin this request, please? OP has added the requested code/clarification.
 
Is this on-topic? I'm wondering since the answer suggests it's a customer support question
 
@AdrianMole "Needs debugging details" is really only for debugging questions. Please use a different close reason for cases where it's not a debugging question. If you know specifically what the question needs, it's not unreasonable to leave a comment explicitly asking for something to be added/edited. For non-debugging questions "Needs details or clarity (Unclear)" or "Needs more focus (Too Broad)" are reasonable.
 
@Adriaan Not on topic, I used a custom close reason
 
@Makyen Which is why I didn't use "Needs debugging details" but, rather, "Needs details or clarity." ;)
... but I can see how you got confused, with the request being gone but the follow-up comment still lingering.
 
11:17 AM
@AdrianMole Ahhh... I didn't actually check. I was just going off what you wrote in your message here. I'm sorry about that. I should have gone to the question and looked.
 
;-P
Blame Dharman for not removing the follow-ups when he binned the request. After all, buck-passing is what we do, is not?
 
@AdrianMole It's an odd day to see Dharman blamed for not deleting stuff.
4
 
@StephenOstermiller I think "not about programming" would have been good enough, frankly
@tripleee Docker definitely meets the definition of a tool commonly used by programmers, so I think this sort of thing sadly counts as on topic. OTOH, with every word being capitalized, and that many typos, I was sorely tempted to VTC "Not written in English".
>I Will Be Rejecting All Downvotes As It Doesnt Answer My Question Because This Is A Really Important Question If I Follow The Docs I Dont Understand How Im Running Into These Errors
oh boy.
 
11:33 AM
@KarlKnechtel I saw a question today about using some sort of M/S keyboard on a Mac. I voted to close as "Not about programming." But, maybe I shouldn't have? After all, a keyboard is certainly a "tool commonly used by programmers."
 
I mean, I side with you on this, but I've been shouted down repeatedly in the past for this kind of thing.
If it were up to me, we wouldn't take questions about IDEs. Frankly, they're below average quality anyway; most people with these problems can't properly distinguish between IDE complaints and compiler complaints (or runtime errors)
but also, s/commonly/primarily. It's hard to imagine a non-programming use of Docker.
>ill be contacting support as i sense a bit of passive agressiveness with the responses im getting and they are not related to my question
that sure went well.
I don't understand how someone goes from Capitalizing Every Word to writing without any capital letters at all.
 
Binary grammar?
 
11:57 AM
Morning
 
Is there a way to search for questions that were closed for specific reasons, other than duplicate?
 
The 10k "Mod tools" has a "Sort by close reason" option for recently closed Qs.
 
@KarlKnechtel for docker, inside is on-topic; outside/installing/etc is off-topic.
@KarlKnechtel is it? I’ve used at least tens of dockers maybe a few hundred. I wouldn’t consider a single one programming. They do radio communication (Helium) and other server related things that definitely aren’t programming. But that’s just my docker use I guess.
@KarlKnechtel from the docker tag: “As a rule of thumb, if your question is about something happening inside the container, it's probably on-topic here; if it's outside the container, it is probably off-topic.”
 
12:17 PM
I would think if it's related specifically to a programming task or tool, it's on-topic. But setting up the docker and installing things would be off-topic.
 
@AdrianMole Unfortunately, passing the buck and/or blaming other people is what's done by a huge number of people, probably the vast majority of people. For many, that blaming of "others" is even in their own mind, with little or no acknowledgement, even to themselves, that they at least share responsibility for the outcome and could have done things differently to get a better, or at least different, outcome.
Personally, I prefer to just take responsibility and recognize the things that I could have changed or done better, even though I do still have urges to at least explain mitigating circumstances. I find that it's relatively rare when I couldn't have done something different that would have resulted in a better outcome.
 
@JamesRisner good enough for me
 
12:52 PM
@JamesRisner It's not that cut and dry. Fairly relevant Meta discussion
 
1:29 PM
@AdrianMole ChatGPT can explicitly generate spam? Sobering thought.
(I hope it wouldn't generate a "supporting documentation" link like that unprompted.)
 
@KarlKnechtel probably. What happens usually, as here, is that the spammer copy-pastes the question into ChatGPT, posts its answer on SO and adds a Spam link. Basically the same strategy spammers have been using for years. This way, they disguise their spam as an actual, good answer. They used to commit plagiarism (either from a different answer on the same page or somewhere else entirely), now they use an AI
 
1:42 PM
@mickmackusa yes that looks like a correct CSS duplicate target
 
Is this a question that should be addressed to Google/YouTube's customer support?
 
@Adriaan yes
 
ugh, you fiend. Ninja'ing me within a half-second
Engineer is secretly Spy
 
Is it acceptable for a user with a gold tag-badge to hammer-reopen their question? I'm sure there's a Meta post about it, so I'm of to look; but, in the meantime, if someone has a ready link or official opinion ...
 
@AdrianMole Yes
If it was not intended as acceptable behavior, they would probably not be allowed to do it by the system. Even if it was unintended behavior originally, I'm sure with the number of times people have complained about it on Meta sites over the years that it would've since been patched if that were case.
Put another way, just because they asked the question in a given language doesn't mean they are suddenly not an expert in that language. Even if you assume they aren't an expert in what they are asking (since they asked about it in the first place), it's still arguably reasonable to assume they can tell when another question/answer set answers/repeats their question.
 
@AdrianMole I'd fall into the "Yes" category as well. You can only do it once. If someone else really wants it closed it can be closed again
 
@Machavity This is what I was considering. There are two "big boys" in C++ (close hammer and reopener) so maybe I'll just stand back and go buy a bag of popcorn, instead. :)
 
2:30 PM
That's more or less what mods do
 
Meh. The close hammerer has sort of admitted it may not be an exact dupe.
 
@Machavity what to do when a mod asks a question, another mode dupe hammers it, and the asker reopens it? Is that when we reach the singularity?
wut... a question about a specific feature of Visual Studio has two close votes... one for "opinion-based" and one for "not about programming"
wish I could find out them and slap them around with a bit of trout, IRC-style.
 
2:48 PM
i mean
 
@KevinB :insert skeleton meme waiting for Kevin to finish his sentence:
 
Hey guys, what to do with this little gem: Floorplan and packaging architecture resources for the interested software professional?. Floor planning (for programmers)
Kind of like "boat programming".
 
@Lundin close it as a resource request
 
Hi there!
Do you know what kind of clarity I can add to reopen https://stackoverflow.com/questions/75802357/scientific-application-html-slider-with-input-type-range ?
 
@Lundin it's a resource request about hardware
 
2:53 PM
@TylerH But it isn't asking for tools or resources for programmers. It is asking about... floor planning :)
 
Maybe there is something obvious which is missing, but I don't see it :)
 
> Does anyone have any recommendations (Website or book, so long as it is a good quality)?
that's a textbook resource recommendation to me (no pun intended)
 
@Basj that is effectively a plugin/resource request
 
IIRC, the "floor-plan" for the Cray II was unusual. (It was the inside surface of a sphere.)
 
@KevinB I only wanted to know if browsers do support such classical sliders.
 
2:55 PM
they do not
 
@TylerH Well, there's this... What is the single most influential book every programmer should read? Staff overruled mods on several occasions...
 
it can be achieved using css html and javascript
 
@KevinB Then this is an answer to an on-topic question :)
 
@Basj If you change the question from "Do any browsers support this" to "how can I make this", it might be reopenable as a different question
which is OK since it doesn't have any answers yet
 
@TylerH Could you edit it? My edits haven't worked to reopen
And it's a genuine question (I have browsed many similar questions, without finding the answer)
 
2:56 PM
@Lundin The staff members who did that were wrong and are no longer here. But that one also has 1.1 million views. This one has... 567, so it's not really worth historical preservation.
@Basj Sure, I can try
 
@Basj Be patient. It's only been in the reopen review queue for 11 minutes. It can sometimes take a day or two for the review to complete.
 
Thanks! Maybe you'll find a better wording than I did
 
@TylerH They clearly unlocked it because it's a click bait generating traffic.
 
@TylerH @Lundin In fact the only staff member who is still here who interacted with it performed a delete action (although I think they were a mod only back then), so if you wanna argue about what current staff thinks, they think it should be deleted.
 
If it focusd specifically on whether or not the built-in slider could support those features, I think it'd be fine... if not a bit pointless given the docs exist, but that's not a close reason.
 
2:58 PM
@AdrianMole No, because I did a mistake: I retracted my "reopen" vote :) I voted, then I edited the question, and reclicked (too fast) but it retracted my reopen vote and cannot vote again :)
 
It's still in the queue, judging by what is said on the blue banner.
 
@Lundin So you agree the staff who are no longer here wanted to keep it around for the wrong reasons?
 
@TylerH I already tried back then: Delete the list of random books? After which animuson (now staff) deleted it. And then Tim Post (no longer staff) undeleted it.
Notably my question has +75 and animuson's answer has +73 so pretty strong community consensus.
 
it's a clickbait title that attracts ad revenue
of course they want to keep it
 
@KevinB So, spam that send a %age of its profits to the "last referrer" should not be deleted?
 
3:03 PM
@Basj Where did your screenshot come from?
The demo you've provided doesn't match it in Firefox or Chrome
 
Either way only mods can delete it now. And it would have to be a brave mod to stick their chin out. So I suppose if the mod team can work up some consensus and all stand behind it, they could go ahead and delete.
 
Of course it should be deleted
just as a few million other questions should be
 
@Lundin Just bring it to Dharman's attention and it'll probably disappear in moments
 
@TylerH That's usually when they need network maintenance to fix things. Jon Skeet once reopened a question closed by Cody and broke the site for 2 hours
 
deleet orl teh kweschuns
 
3:05 PM
@Lundin so if you think it should be deleted, why are you using it as justification for not closing a similar, far-less-viewed question?
(which has since already been closed, I see, including by you. Confusion increases)
 
Well as I argued back then... if that list of random books should be kept around because it generates clicks, we should also have a list of cutest cat pics (for programmers) or best porn (for programmers).
 
@Basj I have edited it and voted to reopen
still don't know where you got your screenshot from, though
 
is "Yes, that's possible" a valid answer?
 
@KevinB Yes.
... possibly.
 
because of course it's possible to create a slider that meets those criteria, but who is running around creating full plugins for specific SO answers
 
3:09 PM
ChatGPT?
 
Sounds like it's potentially too broad, then
 
of course, if we strictly stuck with "with an input type="range"" then the answer is not possible, i guess? unless immediately replacing it with not an input type range is still "using" it
 
@KevinB That's why my initial thought was more "Is this style available in the HTML default sliders?"
 
@TylerH I'd hope the mods would discuss it and reach an agreement.
 
Thanks @TylerH!
 
3:22 PM
@KevinB I have. I've created what could be complete plug-ins on a couple/few occasions and several complete browser extensions. Sometimes, I've published the browser extensions which were generally useful, including the one made for my first SO answer, but, when I've created one, it's usually just a complete extension in the answer in order to demo something. Admittedly, I'm ... probably a bit of an outlier. :)
 
@Makyen that seems less fun than breaking the site for 2 hours
 
i've created plugins, and then came across questions that are asking for the very thing the plugin solves, but that's a different scenario
 
3:37 PM
Yeah, I've also had that happen. :;
 
3:52 PM
@AdrianMole various detectors are not having high confidence that it is GPT-based
 
@TylerH Take out the "snippet" markdown lines and try with just the raw text.
 
@AdrianMole hugging face says 91% chance it's human generated
 
I get 99.94% fake on HuggingFace when I paste the text on its own and then insert the code, afterwards.
 
my gut says gpt
 
@AdrianMole I did, and it still returned 97% human generated in one and "13% chance this was generated by ChatGPT" in another
I haven't used HuggingFace yet for it though
 
3:54 PM
... they've just added the snippet, themselves. (I don't think the bot knows how to do that, yet.)
 
Adding just the first two paragraphs in the openai-detector gives 92% confidence it is by ChatGPT
 
Yep. But I'm a bit reluctant to mod-flag it without a coherent description of what to do to get the fake score. (Way past Beer O'clock, here, so my Coherence Index is < 1)
 
Okay, adding all of the Q&A into hugging face gives me 98% chatgpt
 
I flagged it with a screenshot of the chatgpt detector page and the results, also displaying the input
 
See - you have way more coheremence than I do. :)
But it just smelt like ChatGPT, from the get-go.
 
3:59 PM
coheremence?
I'm partially a region of switzerland?
 
I resemble the Bismark.
 
that's unfortunate
 
meh
 
4:24 PM
@AdrianMole The ship or the person?
 
@VLAZ Neither.
 
*writes down "Adrian does not resemble a WW2 ship. Probably."*
 
You're confusing me with Bismarck.
 
the city?
 
@AdrianMole Well, not any more. I wrote down a note!
 
4:29 PM
See what I meant about lack of coherence?
;-P
 
when
 
This room is more confused than an unfocused flower
 
Even if that is a confocal, Confucian flower?
 
 
1 hour later…
M--
 
@M-- this is an answer--did you mean to link to the question?
 
M--
@TylerH yeah, sorry, got there through an NAA reported by Natty
 
I think it's probably an OK question. It's about the compatibility of different programming tool versions with each other.
 
M--
OK, thank you!
 
6:04 PM
@Machavity the part I quoted was just the last line of the tag info for docker. Your linked meta tries to say everything docker is on-topic. It’s not that black and white, I use docker daily and I’ve never used it in a programming context (much of my use is radio communication and server work that isn’t php/python/etc applications or database related.) there are many off-topic docker questions to do with installation that are closed nearly every day.
 
@imxitiz Please see the FAQ for how to format requests
 
6:25 PM
Did a UI change just happened? I now see a list of related question where answers would be on unanswered questions.
 
and the two pieces of it aren't in a single element, so blocking it takes two targets
 
@KevinB Thanks
 
jps
@KevinB looking at some of the questions in which I've been involved today, it seems to be exaggerated to call this arbitrary collection of questions which they show in the list "related"
 
Yeah, the "related" questions is normally only tangentially related at best. I think it even gives worst results then SO Search
 
Ugh. Do not like
 
6:38 PM
I love it:
Theory: this is to increase the answer rate by making the design of unanswered question so annoying that people will post answer out of desperation just to get rid of it :) — samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz 2 mins ago
 
@dbc q? ;)
 
dbc
@rene y
 
:D
 
 
1 hour later…
SO is declining me access to custom flag this question. It's marked as a duplicate, but for an incorrect question. There's 2 duplicate candidates. It's marked as a duplicate of candidate 1 (incorrect). It is a duplicate of candidate 2 (my report).
 
that's not what mod flags are for
(this is why i hate close "flags" being different from close "votes")
 
Then pardon me. I haven't used the site in 2 years, due to unhappiness with SE.
So what am I supposed to do? I don't have enough reputation for voting, only for flagging. I flagged it 6 hours ago. It was incorrectly labelled by voters 5 hours ago (after my flag). I cannot see any option for me other than reporting it here.
 
leaving a comment is probably a decent start, in some cases you can @ the closer, i forget what specific requirements make that work
 
Well, I could flag the close comment, though.
I don't think there's any links anywhere for me to find the flag review. I can remember from the past that I have access to see the reviews for my flags, but I can't remember what the URL looks like. So I don't know how to get hold of the flag review, which would let me know who reviewed it.
 
8:43 PM
best case scenario would be commenting with an @ at a dupe closer who has a gold badge
as they can single handedly edit the dupe close targets to include the better targets
that should be possible in this case
 
I don't know the usernames of any duplicate closers, so I'd have to ping a random moderator, then.
 
hmm.. right... because you can't cast close votes. that's so dumb
 
Yes. I still used to hang out a lot in this room, though. :)
 
i think you can see it in the timeline
 
I flagged the other person's duplicate flag auto comment. I assumed it would just be easier for some moderator in here to clean it up.
There's no timeline button for this question. It's never been edited.
Adding /revisions to the end of the URL does not work either.
I have 793 helpful flags; these restrictions shouldn't be necessary...
 
8:56 PM
You can't cast a custom mod flag on that post?
(not that that is the right thing to do here)
@Andreasdetestscensorship You have to change questions to posts
 
No, I can't, because I already flagged it as a duplicate. Then what is the right action for me?
 
https://stackoverflow.com/posts/67133475/timeline
 
Ah, thanks. That got me there. :)
 
@Andreasdetestscensorship oh, that's really weird. Well, sadly in this case there is not much you can do. The site has a general soft policy of not reopening questions just to close them again for a better reason
so unless you can get three users with close-vote powers to agree to help you here, or another person with a gold badge in one of those tags, you are out of luck
by "to help you here", note that I don't mean "here in SOCVR", specifically... just "here" as in "this situation"
 
@TylerH It's quite a blatantly incorrect duplicate source, though. The question has 404 views. Viewers should be redirected to the question I linked, not the one it currently links to.
 
9:00 PM
I appreciate that, but unfortunately the policy does not have an exception for "but no really this is really really wrong"
 
@TylerH That "incorrect" meaning didn't even occur to me until you pointer it out. ;)
 
If it's really that harmful (I doubt it would cross their thresholds) you could mod flag one of the comments as a mod flag
But again, they don't really recommend you do that just to get a dupe target changed
is there an OpenGL related chatroom by any chance?
 
jps
@Andreasdetestscensorship there's always a timeline button under the downvote arrow and bookmark button, regardless if it has been edited or not.
 
[The close review](https://stackoverflow.com/review/close/34078138) is empty.
The question isn't related to OpenGL. It's related to GLFW. You can any kind of rendering API with GLFW, be it OpenGL or Vulkan (preferred), and even Metal, DX or other native solutions.
 
@jps that's a new feature, btw. Relative to Andreas leaving SO and coming back, anyway...
so they may not have been aware of it
 
9:03 PM
@jps Thanks. Forgot about it. Didn't see it.
@TylerH I think it was there before I left, so I just forgot about it.
 
ah
 
jps
@TylerH sorry, I'm not aware of Andreas history on the site
 
No worries, just remarking :-)
I forget exactly when it was added but thought it had been in the last 1 to 1.5 years
Time flies when your favorite site is being changed all the time...
 
:P Favourite, yeah, sure. I guess that's why I came back. Woopsie.
 
jps
9:21 PM
This question about raid arrays, mdadmin and linux is a perfect example of the total failure that the "related questions" list is: first item in the list "Which version of PHP I'm running?"
^PostgreSQL, not PHP, but that doesn't make it better
 
@jps Don't you know that you can use PHP version 42 to fix that? ;)
 
jps
@NathanOliver my bad, next time I know where to find the real SME ;-)
 
jps
9:38 PM
and considering this the status "cat /proc/mdstat" part of the question, I think we can be happy that there are no cross-site related questions, linking to pets.se :)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:25 PM
You guys do have a duplicate for this, right? stackoverflow.com/questions/75807172
the question is "why can't I use a variable of a base class type (that stores a derived instance) to call a derived method?", which seems like something that should get asked constantly
 

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