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12:03 AM
@miken32 Looks like that does, in fact, contain sufficient information to diagnose the problem (as indicated by the answer). Did you think it was missing something specific? (I don't really understand why you'd request the closure of a question for lacking debugging details because of "NATO" when that new answer seems to disprove your claim that the question lacks enough information to answer it.)
 
@CodyGray It's an error message with no code or context. Just because a question can be answered doesn't make it on-topic IMO.
 
I don't understand. If it doesn't need that code or context in order to be answered, why does it need it?
We don't ask for stuff just for the fun or sport of it. We require it because it's needed to answer the question.
Looking at it in a different way: Isn't that error message sufficient context? If that question were edited to include code, would that help anything? Seems like it would just add needless clutter to the page, since there is already enough information in the error message to diagnose the problem. Future viewers wouldn't be helped in any way by seeing irrelevant code.
 
@CodyGray technically it requires 4-6 votes (1-3 close votes plus 3 delete votes), although some of those votes can come from the same people, which isn't the case with flags
with the <6 options being if it's dupehammered
and obviously mod votes don't count because we can do all the things unilaterally
 
Also 3 down votes
 
oh, true. I always forget about that because I've never had 20k privs here... (I do have them on Law.SE, but immediate question deletion basically never comes up there, and the questions it happens on tend to have been highly downvoted by then anyway)
 
12:13 AM
@CodyGray The answerer can't know if that's the correct resolution to the error message, they're just guessing. It's just as likely to be a permissions problem on the file, or SELinux restrictions, rather than the file being missing.
 
12:32 AM
Showing the code wouldn't tell you that, either. They'd have to show a dump of their file permissions, right?
 
 
3 hours later…
3:58 AM
@Rubén That doesn't seem to be asking for recommendations. The way I read it, it's a "how-to" question, specifically: how can I add a link to Google Chat to a website. Am I missing something?
 
@CodyGray It's repeating "any possibility" too much compared considering the lenght of the post. Doesn't show the minimal understanding of how the programming part of Google Sites works.
 
Well, I (or you) can easily fix the wording problem of "any possibility". And I don't understand why the asker needs to demonstrate any understanding of how Google Sites works. That's kind of the point of their question, right? Are you saying that the question cannot be answered because it's too broad and/or because we need more information?
 
@CodyGray It looks to me that it's asking for quickstart / tutorial
Let me do an attemp to fix the wording.
 
Maybe... but it's not asking for a link to an off-site tutorial, so that's OK, unless such a tutorial would be too broad to be reasonably answered in our Q&A format. For example, a quick tutorial on how to build a social-networking site, or how to get started programming in Python... both of those are too broad. But a quick start on how to do some other well-defined task should be on-topic here.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to make a ruling, because I lack the subject-matter expertise here to tell whether this is sufficiently narrowly scoped to be on-topic. But I'm uncomfortable closing a question as asking for off-site resources when it looks to me like it's just asking how to do something.
 
Any possibilities as such for a [Google Sites (website)] / [LumApps Site]? Thanks in Advance for any possible recomendations! @FernandoLara — Shwetha Sai Jan 12 at 6:24
 
4:13 AM
Yeah, so... I would argue that's just a turn of phrase used by the asker. People tend to say things like this in order to avoid appearing like they're asking for someone to do all of the work for them. Unfortunately, because too many close-voters (in my opinion) trigger on keywords, this results in their questions getting closed. That's not really the intention behind the "resource recommendations" close reason.
To some extent, I suppose, that's on us/the system. We should do better in presenting and explaining that close reason. I will add that to my backlog of work for me (and the rest of the mod team) to work on, as improving the guidance for close reasons is something that many of us feel strongly about.
 
@CodyGray It looks to me that the OP thinks that Google Chat bots could be used to create a site assistant as many site have for customer service...
The short answer is, It's not possible as it's arleady said in the current answer.
A complete answer, IMHO, might require to explain too many things....
By the other hand in the comment quoted above the OP is mentioning two differernt platforms...
which make me think that they might convert the question in something like "of if it's not possible with Google Chat" then what can I use"
Anyway.... once the repetive part was removed, ignoring the quoted comment, and my original interpretation, I think that the question "needs details / clarity"
 
4:54 AM
This user keeps posting questions because they don't know how to run some code they found online.
 
5:35 AM
@CrisLuengo to me, the posts are borderline spam, as all three refer to the same github repo
 
6:05 AM
Is this SD reported question really not spam? Their profile looks like spam and advertise themselves with the site they linked multiple times in the question. They even included a generic "General information of my website: <homepage link>" that's not really relevant. And they were caught spamming that site before.
 
@Cristik ehhhh, could just be using it? No evidence of affiliation I can see.
@CrisLuengo Please see FAQs #19 and #20 on moderating user behavior. Generally you shouldn't be posting multiple requests targeting a user like this.
@gre_gor maaaaaybe... On the fence. In general Charcoal HQ are the experts on identifying spam.
(in here, it often can turn into discussions of user behavior, which we want to avoid)
 
@gre_gor these are really tricky, we have several examples of spammers returning to ask for help with their sites after having spammed the same site and it's really not obvious either way whether that's just a clever way to get the spam to stay up or a genuine attempt to get help
this one is detailed enough that I am leaning towards the latter, though I would certainly not be tempted to help them even if I could
 
(separately, it seems...unclear. How are you supposed to determine the correct path?)
 
sometimes I left a comment asking them to explain the apparent paradox, mainly really to alert others who might be prepared to post an answer about the circumstances
 
 
1 hour later…
is "Zachary's Karate Club" something we are expected to be familiar with?
 
8:15 AM
So, if a question is correctly closed as "Not in English" and the OP properly translates the body but leaves the title in the foreign language, then we should vote to "Keep closed", is not? (Titles are important and the first thing that we see.) Or should we take it that OP has the required English-language skills and do the translation ourselves? (Personally, I don't think so.)
 
No, the entire post needs to be in English. That edit doesn't address the issues that led to the question being closed.
Probably the only exception would be someone who chose to keep in the original, non-English version. It would be defensible to edit that out while also voting to re-open.
 
I will generally also add a comment that they 'forgot' to translate the title. My concern (though quite minor) is that, if they then further edit to fix the title while the post is still in the review queue, it won't be "resubmitted".
 
Can a RO bin the above request? I meant to delay it, rather than send it immediately
 
Note to self, make sure you choose the "Revisit" from the dropdown
 
8:19 AM
Also, the way the title is presented in the editor isn't ... um ... optimal.
 
The "Nietzsche" button works, too.
 
@AdrianMole I think the review queue just shows you the latest version of the question, when you open it up in review. Well, granted maybe not immediately after an edit but other than that, it's possible that one user reviewed it at revision #2, then another at revision #3 and the two voted differently as a result.
 
9:08 AM
@LindaLawton-DaImTo But are we a pseudo-coding service? Maybe "Needs focus" fits for that one?
 
9:26 AM
@AdrianMole it defiantly needs something.
 
9:55 AM
Is this an answer? It could be construed as, "Its a bug; solution: Wait for a few days and try again."
 
@AdrianMole Since a comment claims that this has been resolved, maybe the question can be closed
 
@JeanneDark Probably. But, in general, are such posts from the "company" acceptable? Or should they be flagged as NAA?
 
@AdrianMole It doesn't really look like NAA to me. Rather in the "It's impossible" category of answers.
 
@KGG Why request this room to delete? It was a quite straightforward NAA
 
KGG
@Dharman I saw that answer has been around for a very long time, I thought its best to push it here, is that not the correct approach?
 
10:09 AM
2 days is not a very long time.
Nothing wrong asking it here, but a flag would have worked just as well... maybe a little bit slower
 
@Dharman It is if you're a mayfly.
 
KGG
@Dharman So for the future, its best to leave obvious problematic answers to the system right?
 
What actually happened is that because of this room 2 more people flagged it and it pushed it to the top of the queue. But if you were to flag it yourself only it would also push it up the mod flag queue
 
@KGG You can flag them
 
It's not wrong to ask this room, but it's also unnecessary. You could have achieved the same outcome by just flagging it as NAA
 
KGG
10:14 AM
@Dharman Alright that makes sense thank you & @JeanneDark for the clarifications.
 
10:27 AM
Am I still asleep or is this gibberish? Why dbeaver is against Gino strada in sql?
 
@Dharman gibberish for sure
I edit it remove the gibberish but it still don`t feel like about programming
 
Even with your edit, it still remains gibberish. Also, I have no idea what this answer has to do with the question
 
What's Italian for gibberish? The first two lines are (sort of) Italian.
 
KGG
quiet possibly one of the randomest question & answer
 
@AdrianMole spaghetti :P
 
10:33 AM
Well, someone thought it was worth upvoting
 
I approved it, but in the future I would appreciate if you made edit suggestion only on posts that can be salvaged.
 
@Dharman thanks, don`t know that, will keep in mind
 
@Hicomputer Please follow the format for cv-pls requests
but that question is not looking for opinions. It should not be closed
 
10:53 AM
@Hicomputer white space in tag names nullifies the formatting
 
ok, isn`t that question like one of those question "what is the best way of doing x"?
OP says as efficiently as possible
 
@Hicomputer I don't vote on what OP has written (the question can be easily edited to not include "efficiently as possible".. Bascially every question is searching for "best" way to something.. probably a duplicate however..
 
11:09 AM
@PetterFriberg I'd argue that "best" is often unclear. Yes, in some cases it can be guessed what "best" is from context, but also not always. When people ask "What's the best way to X" for example sometimes they mean "what is the shortest code/oneliner to achieve X". Other times it's "what is the most efficient algorithm". And also quite often they just mean "How to".
And yes, a lot of times each of these has a duplicate anyway.
 
@VLAZ in that question they want an " efficient" solution, I can't really see how that is opinon based, (if you like ok unclear, what do they mean with "efficient", but seems like stretching it a bit.. query execution time can be measured.
 
I didn't see the question. I was commenting on "every question is searching for "best"" bit. It's not always clear what best they are searching for.
 
true.. it may be unclear what is the best answer.. the best solution
anyway we have 1000K of similar question like stackoverflow.com/questions/40408541/…, stackoverflow.com/questions/28102538/….. the true problem is not that these are opinion based but instead they are all duplicates of stackoverflow.com/questions/13138990/…
 
@PetterFriberg Agreed that these aren't opinion based. And also that "searching in a list" is a solved problem.
 
11:29 AM
@AdrianMole lets close the question with all those img's
 
@PetterFriberg Yeah - That too.
 
I have no idea what that answer is... but sure would like to close and delete the whole thingzzz.
 
I was just (potentially) calling out my own error, before some angry mod decided to offer me a review vacation.
 
as it stands it's completely useless on SO.
 
But - if it is an attempt at an answer - it should not be deleted via LQA review.
 
11:33 AM
who knows..
or and edit after comment... hard to tell... it's just a mess
 
@AdrianMole this mod has no earthly idea whether that's an answer or not
 
skip :D
 
Anyway, the review is now completed and the 'answer' remains. So, let's go the organic way ...
 
actually, I think it is?
 
I would also guess answer..
 
11:35 AM
because they say they want that variable value somewhere, and that code claims to produce it
 
lets delete the question instead.. (when we can)
 
ehhh they could edit it
 
Although Roomba will eat it in a week or two, if the answers don't get upvoted.
 
well they can.. but have not
 
well, they were only just told about the images problem
and they haven't been online in an hour
 
11:37 AM
Can you bin that last del-pls request, please.
 
@Dharman With the question being gibberish and the random answer, it may be an attempt at sockpuppetry and establishing a voting ring. It's possible they didn't know about reputation requirements and voting privileges and so they failed (despite the effort of that upvoter).
 
@PetterFriberg We can! :)
 
maybe... but if it failed we can't do anything about it
 
Just offering a possible explanation for why two accounts decided to post that random stuff.
 
@RyanM it's a dupe anyway... for now I vote to delete.. I hate images no one can find it and understand.. better to find the other ones..
 
11:41 AM
oh, if it's a dupe then meh
 
trying to read something from settings... in c#.. must be atleast 1000 out there.
 
it may be worth noting that I do not know much about C# or anything about ASP.NET, so I'll have to take your word for that
 
as far as I understand what they are trying to do in the question
 
KGG
@PetterFriberg That link took me to a virus site,... JKJK :P
 
you prefeer bing?
 
KGG
11:45 AM
Isn't bing technically safer to use as its difficult to get ranked there
 
no clue
 
KGG
I just realized there is an english language stack, there is some pretty fun questions on there to read :O ell.stackexchange.com/questions/35/… that one always puzzled me growing up!
 
@KGG this distinction is particularly horrible in German, which uses the same word for "girlfriend" and "female friend" (the workaround for "female friend" is to say "a female friend of mine", but there's no unambiguous way to say "girlfriend")
(same applies to "boyfriend"/"male friend")
 
KGG
I personally never understood how "girl friend / boy friend" translates to a partner :O
@RyanM That also doesn't make sense haha, technically the minute anyone adds "friend" then it should become friend, not partner :P
 
12:03 PM
@KGG This might actually be a good question for ELL. Might even have been asked.
 
KGG
@VLAZ Hehe yeah, was just curious, english can be very confusing sometimes :P
 
@KGG Note that in German it's a single word for "friend", but because German words are gendered, it would translate to English as "female friend"
 
KGG
@VLAZ My brain started lagging after the first sentence xD
 
@RyanM Yeah. "Freund"/"Freudin" is the same word but just gendered. At least in English it's simply "friend" so you can at least say "I have a friend, who is male" or "who is female" to be less ambiguous.
 
12:14 PM
Polish is better. It's just "girl"
 
KGG
@RyanM If I say mine freund, in this case does it mean im saying boyfriend or male friend?
 
@KGG it's ambiguous
 
KGG
oooh
 
(note: I'm not fluent, but I speak some, and I've discussed this particular point with native speakers)
 
@KGG BTW, if you want to see another example of "fun": "The horse raced past the barn fell." It's called garden-path sentence which is grammatically and logically correct but hard to parse. The sentence actually means that it was the horse who fell. And that horse was raced [by somebody] past the barn.
 
KGG
12:18 PM
@VLAZ actually yeah you can read this in multiple ways :O
 
good ol' sequential greedy parsing
@KGG It's actually unambiguous: any other reading is grammatically incorrect.
 
12:39 PM
@Vickel would you call this a typo question? stackoverflow.com/q/32369732/2943403 (30 views total)
 
12:50 PM
Would it be considered 'risky' to flag a post for moderator attention when it has already been edited by a moderator? (It's an answer I strongly suspect as being AI-generated.)
 
@AdrianMole I'd do it anyway. The mod could've overlooked other issues in the post.
 
Yeah - The mod edited out a spammy link.
 
@mickmackusa IMO - yes. My criteria: were I to land on this question after searching, it wouldn't really tell me "How to update a specific record based on unique field in codeigniter?" Or it does very indirectly since there is some correct code in the question. Along with the answer I might be able to put together a working solution. But a more direct "Here is how ..." would have been more useful.
The duplicate probably helps but...the sign post is almost irrelevant. Except for the title.
@AdrianMole I don't think you'd get "punished" if you lay out clear reason why you think there might be a problem. A mod might have missed it initially. Or maybe they did consider it but discarded it. I don't really want to think that we should face "consequences" for well-intended flags.
 
It scores 99.98% fake on HuggingFace (I think that's the maximum score you ever get) ... so I flagged it.
 
FWIW I have marked helpful CGPT flags even if it was very obvious to me that the post wasn't CGPT
 
12:54 PM
I added the following to my text: Please don't decline my flag; instead, punish the other moderator!
... not really. :)
 
@AdrianMole That's fair. I've seen some false positives with that confidence. However, it's rare. I think it mostly happens on shorter content. I've not seen false positives with, say, an answer which has 3-4 paragraphs of text or more.
 
Morning
 
@AdrianMole Hmm, smart. Only a diamond can cut another diamond.
 
(don't fact-check that)
 
12:56 PM
I think this one was basically spam with AI-generated fluff added as a cloak.
 
^ it was
 
@CodyGray just as a follow-up on the short discussion we had there - I just stumbbled upon a question tagged with . This sounds like a typical tag for off-topic / non-programming questions but the excerpt doesn't contain anything about the fact that this tag should (also) be used only for programming questions. Do you think it's worth editing?
 
@mickmackusa I wouldn't call it a real typo, since the where clause is valid syntax It doesn't throw an error, but doesn't deliver the desired result neither, so it could be answered (as it partially was) explaining what the 2nd parameter in the where clause actually does.
 
KGG
He didn't provide any information on what was causing the error, and in the end it was him forgetting an import.
 
1:10 PM
Sorry for the influx guys, this question is in a dire need of some cleaning
 
@Machavity I don't think it's a typo, in that they've missed some required configuration, but it's almost certainly a duplicate (but I don't know py-to-exe, so I can't point to a specific one)
 
I wonder if this answer could (should?) be deleted as well? It is basically the same idea as all those above, only that it uses an anti-pattern for the loop instead of the idiomatic way...
 
> pls, no minus, I dont have reputation for commenting
 
Hmm. I have a post where a ChatGPT answer has been followed up with a ChatGPT-generated comment.
 
@AdrianMole I've seen similar. Answer is ChatGPT generated, there is a comment challenging it by other user, author responds with ChatGPT response.
 
They obviously don't know what you should best do with the shovel when you're knee-deep in sh...
... shale oil, obviously.
 
Obviously
 
There was one yesterday where ChatGPT answer was posted, I posted a comment just in case it was merely similar in style. Author then updated the answer by just appending another very clearly ChatGPT response. The appended text started with "I apologize, I made a mistake in my previous response." which then was in the middle of the text after the edit.
 
1:50 PM
oh the irony
 
2:23 PM
 
3:07 PM
is there a flag for chat gtp suspicion?
 
@DragandDrop Very bottom of the flag dialog.
 
@DragandDrop A custom "in need of moderator action" flag. Be sure to mention that you think it is ChatGPT-generated and why you think that.
 
3:25 PM
I wonder if anyone on SO has tried the ChatGPT author's new tool for detecting it
 
@TylerH Link?
It looks like you are trying to use my creator's new tool for detecting my wonderful answers on Stack Overflow. To do this, ...
 
@AdrianMole here's one (I haven't read this article; I think I saw the headline on CNN) theguardian.com/technology/2023/feb/01/…
Here's a direct link to the OpenAI (ChatGPT) detection tool they just released. Looks like it requires a signup though; not sure if it's free
Based on their blog post about its accuracy, it looks like it is significantly less accurate than the detector that's already in use
@Machavity cc @snakecharmerb Is it a duplicate of this? stackoverflow.com/questions/12201928/… It appears to be the canonical
Well, stackoverflow.com/questions/22282760/… has a better title for a canonical but it's closed as a dupe of the one above
 
@TylerH I think that one is too generic - the problem is not properly defining dependencies when converting a python script to a (Windows) executable, I believe. Not a simple "you passed a wrong file path"
 
3:47 PM
@snakecharmerb Hmm, so the "NRE error" method doesn't apply here, I guess...
 
4:19 PM
@TylerH NRE?
 
@snakecharmerb Null Reference Exception; I referring to the habit of the SO curation community to close any question about a NRE as a duplicate of the canonical, regardless of how many layers of issues there are in causing the NRE for a given user
They just work to make the NRE canonical have an answer that is as long and comprehensive as possible. Basically teaches you how to debug that error
 
It's not particularly helpful for targeted assistance that you get for individual questions, but it is certainly more in keeping with the 'teach a man to fish' axiom
 
4:40 PM
Yeah I'm not against that approach by any means, but in this case I think it has to to be associated with configuring py-to-exe specifically.
 
4:56 PM
There doesn't seem to be a good dupe that I can find, but someone who actually uses pyinstaller and friends might do better.
 
A mod may want to remove and add back the tag to the post about ChatGPT. Its going to be removed automacly in a few days
 
 
1 hour later…
7:15 PM
@Vickel although there are no errors generated by the mistake. It seems clear to me that the OP simply forgot to use the passed in variable. (facepalm) I don't think Dharman's dupe is as close as I would have liked on the topic. That dupe may mislead readers. I couldn't find a good dupe to close with.
 
7:27 PM
@mickmackusa Same as I said this morning, you do not need to involve this room for NAA. You can just flag it as NAA.
 
@mickmackusa maybe this one is a bit more of a general approach? stackoverflow.com/questions/33199160/…
 
8:08 PM
@snakecharmerb Does this really need to be deleted? Also, "not about programming" is a close reason, not a deletion reason. It seems like it has some useful information
 
@TylerH This statement, that '"not about programming" is a close reason, not a deletion reason', surprises me. Do you have a reference for this?
 
@TylerH If you believe it should be preserved, please feel free to bin my request. I will retract my vote.
@TylerH Ah, or you can undelete it, as it seems it has already been deleted.
 
9:05 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels Not beyond the site dialogs itself; we have discussed this many times here--"not about programming" is the top/1st reason for close voting. Deletion doesn't have a list of predetermined reasons, per se, but deletion is for really bad things that have no value or are causing harm. I'm not even entirely certain the question that prompted this is off-topic WRT 'not about programming', but it seems like there are some valuable responses; generally we avoid deleting content that has value.
@snakecharmerb Not a big concern, and I don't know the system/software so I'm not sure if it is worth it, but saw it was upvoted question and had two answers, so some people obviously felt it had some value. Thanks for the reply
 
@TylerH: Thanks for your reply. What confuses me in this is that I would assume that our goal would be to keep questions and answers that have both value and relevance. For example, there could be a great Q&A on the site about purchasing your first webservice, but no matter the quality, it would fail the relevance test, and (again, in my mind), should be removed.
Of course, this is not a black/white issue, and there will be many gradations of gray, but for the most part, why wouldn't we want to delete topic that are, well off-topic? Or should I ask this on meta?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels Sure, we prefer to keep stuff that is relevant; if something is blatantly off-topic, like "how do I chart a road course from New York City to Albuquerque New Mexico", that's arguably useful for anyone making the trip, but is really not at all relevant to Stack Overflow, and there's not going to be any loss by deleting it from here (people aren't likely to show up here looking for that information)
In this case, the question was clearly about software and arguably programming-related... or at least programming adjacent (in the same way that bash questions sometimes get closed)... there's a lot of overlap there
Not something that qualifies for a historical lock, of course, but still something that a programmer who is likely to be hanging out in the tag might see and say "hey, this is useful information relevant to this tag/software/language"
 
@TylerH: again, thanks for sharing this information.
 
Other than potentially not being technically programming, there wasn't really any other issue with the question as far as I could tell; it had enough info to answer, wasn't a duplicate, wasn't a typo, etc. And it was already closed, so no additional answers were coming in.
In those cases, expedited deletion especially isn't always warranted... maybe a delete vote is; I don't really know in this case, hence why I brought it up
Regarding asking on Meta, I mean you could ask if the question should be deleted or not, but it seems like small fries, relatively speaking. And what we expect here for SOCVR in terms of request reasons is obviously not Meta's concern
 
9:21 PM
put another way, while it very well may warrant eventual deletion, because it doesn't need to be deleted today to solve a potential immediate problem, it's not a good candidate for a request here?
 
@TylerH: If I asked on meta, it would be in a general way, not for this specific Q&A that initiated our discussion. We want our chat room's goals and actions to reflect those of the greater community and of the site, of course.
 
9:36 PM
@KevinB Generally, yes that's the line, insofar as we have a line. We don't have hard and fast rules or exhaustive criteria because we want to allow for some nuance, but personally I speak up mostly when there's a question that seems useful based on the interactions of the post (upvotes, multiple answers) and where I can't necessarily or immediately tell that it's not about programming/adjacent to programming.
 
9:56 PM
sorry, wrong one
not sure what happened with the share-link interface there
 
@KarlKnechtel Just one flag is enough. Cast a mod flag and in the reason explain why you think it's ChatGPT generated.
 
is this a duplicate? Does anyone have a good canonical?
 
10:12 PM
@blackgreen Yes. Voted for the dupe.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:17 PM
 
I was going to edit this question to remove mention of articles and whatnot, but was just going to be left with "How can I debug my Android NDK project in C++, using the lldb debugger from the command line?" Is that a reasonably scoped question? I don't like the idea of a single sentence question but it seems answerable in a reasonable amount of space.
 
11:59 PM
@MrUpsidown Yes, it's worth editing (I've done so, but feel free to improve on it.)
 

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