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12:44 AM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Flagging individual comments is fine, probably even better if they're rude. It's also fine to raise a custom flag on the post requesting deletion of many/all comments. Don't ever raise a custom flag on a comment with the intent to flag multiple comments. Comment flags only mean one thing: "delete this comment".
 
 
1 hour later…
2:28 AM
@RyanM :cough:
 
 
2 hours later…
KGG
4:19 AM
So quiet today :O
 
4:46 AM
 
KGG
4:58 AM
@SurajRao Am I reading this wrong or is this person insulting?
 
@KGG I wasnt sure.. I don't know what word they meant or if they are trying to insult then who are they referring to
Its pointless to edit it out as its already in another answer. I voted to delete anyway
Feel free to flag if you think it is r/a or insulting
 
KGG
@SurajRao Hmm... new account, and the way its worded its like "you * people are all stupid, just do this"
 
5:23 AM
@mickmackusa Haha, your site's most active process is bumping of old posts by Community. :-D
 
@CodyGray It truly is a special place.
 
It seems kind of weird to have 0 posts ever locked or undeleted. No one ever engages in edit wars or vandalism or anything? And nothing that's been deleted is ever edited to improve it?
 
@CodyGray It is easy to mistake JSE for a site with content worth fighting over!
 
People will fight over lots of stuff that isn't worth fighting over.
 
@CodyGray I'll argue to my death over that assertion!
 
5:26 AM
:-)
 
KGG
It was way too quiet without you guys :D
felt sad and lonely :(
 
Sorry, got bogged down having to look up "yakka".
 
The tiny community actually suffers from ubiquitous timidness. Almost everyone feels under-qualified to dare to post. I guess I get it. This is why I contribute to AskUbuntu, but I never actually post -- there is NO WAY that my level of understanding is going to be better than the average contribute or even unique. I choose to remain quiet there.
 
@halfer You need to step up your game. There are lots of deleted posts on MSO still in need of editing. Better get to them before Peter does!
 
@KGG Well, with Braiam taking a breather, someone has to be the catalyst to conversation.
 
KGG
5:33 AM
@CodyGray What did your research show :O
 
@TylerH That's one (good) reason. Another one is that we don't really want to grease the wheels any more than they already are. Most people who are so confused that they end up asking a question in Stack Overflow in a language that is obviously not used here are not going to be able to ask a high-quality question on any site, at least not without slowing down and spending some time reading. The hope is that the Help Center article will provide the information they need but also serve as a sort of speedbump.
 
KGG
@mickmackusa ^_^
 
@KGG Aussie slang for "work". So I interpreted Mick's statement as (ironically) saying that they're doing hard work over on Joomla.SE.
@AdrianMole Truncation is a form of rounding!
 
KGG
Honestly.. I'm more surprised that Joomla still exists :O
 
@GeneralGrievance I've submitted an edit to that question, which I think addresses the "opinion-based" problem. I think that question is worth having here as a reference (unless you know of a duplicate). Please re-review.
@KGG You mean that you're surprised Joomla the SE site still exists, or that the platform/framework exists?
My knowledge of Joomla is, essentially, (1) it's a site where Mick is a moderator, and (2) it's some kind of content-management system for web stuff, like Wordpress but different.
 
5:52 AM
@KGG Me too. One of the fundamental/religious wars that continue to burn within the core of its organization is that: "it doesn't know what it wants to be". Some of its contributors want it to be more developer focused (to beat Drupal at being more sophisticated) and other contributors want it be more novice-friendly (easier to use than WordPress). In the meantime, it fails at both by being somewhere in between.
I don't see a long future for JSE in the network. It needs new energy, but I don't see any coming on the horizon. I haven't used Joomla for over 3 years and I don't have any compelling reason to go back (since I left working for a Joomla dev agency).
The good news is that if/when JSE perishes, I expect that it will be a trivial matter to migrate its content to SO ...where it can get pulverized by SO curators!
 
6:05 AM
@GeneralGrievance Is it really though? The question is: "Are these two usages interchangeable? If not, is there an advantage in using one over the other?" (emphasis added). They are almost interchangeable, and at least the top two answers seem objective to me. Is the request because it's attracting opinion-based answers?
 
@user To be fair, I edited it since the request was posted in here. I already asked for General Grievance to re-review the request.
Of course, I'm happy to imply and agree with the implication that General Grievance could and should have submitted such an edit himself. :-)
 
@CodyGray whOOPs! did not see/notice that :| sorry
 
No problem. It's not expected that everyone read all the messages here. :-)
 
6:54 AM
@SurajRao ^ > "lol, downvoters at least have the courtesy of explaining the downvote. Is it that you simply hate your life and others?"
 
@SurajRao The last sentence may make it (look like) a partial answer.
 
I agree that should be NAA, but I don't set policy. The approach described in the last sentence is, quite frankly, not consequential. Talking about alternate ways to edit a protected file isn't really adding anything
 
@mickmackusa Such comments should be flagged, not responded to.
 
@JeanneDark the part of what you need to do is still in the link whether you use vim or something else to do it doesn't matter does it
?
 
@CodyGray Paint me compassionate/constructive to a fault.
 
7:00 AM
@SurajRao OP's edit doesn't seem to have changed anything substantive about the answer. I don't know what the odds of success would be if a NAA flag were raised on that; it's definitely borderline. It seems like it could be easily turned into an answer by quoting the relevant bits from the Ask Ubuntu answer and adding attribution.
 
@SurajRao I agree, but as Cody says, it's borderline and I could imagine a declined NAA flag (but also one marked helpful).
 
@JeanneDark All of the links recommended in those answers are dead.
 
@CodyGray So my helpful comment is scrubbed? Unless you are going to personally edit the static content into the post, why remove something helpful straight away? This only adds to the poster's frustration.
 
Just in case anyone was looking for an example of why we don't do recommendation questions.
@mickmackusa You didn't leave a helpful comment. You left a comment expressing empathy about the downvote.
Which only added to my frustration.
 
@CodyGray I informed them how to improve their post.
 
7:06 AM
That should be done without discussing votes.
 
No baby, no bathwater. I think that's a Bob Marley song.
 
@KarlKnechtel Oh, @SurajRao, I see now that by "OP", you meant the asker of the question. (I thought you meant the OP of the answer, who did edit their own answer.) Yeah, that edit to the question does seem to make the question eligible for closure as a typo. (It doesn't change the status of the answer, but it allows the problem to be solved in a different way.)
@mickmackusa No babies, no bathwater, no commiseration, no talking about voting. Just the part that comments are designed for: suggestions on how to improve the post.
"I was elected to drain the swamp bathwater, and, by god, I'm going to do it!"
 
I know you have the power (and it is trivial) to edit comments if you don't a fraction of it. You chose not to. No baby, no bathwater. Just frustrated users who aim to be helpful and their content is downvoted without any explanation.
 
As I assume you know, I do edit a lot of comments to remove stuff that would otherwise cause me to delete it. I do this a lot more than other mods do or are comfortable doing. In this case, I honestly just didn't read much past the first sentence where Mick was offering his condolences about a no-comment downvote.
 
@mickmackusa Are you possibly confusing SO with a discussion forum?
 
7:14 AM
It's like when you see Melissa McCarthy starring in a movie, you already know what the movie is going to be like. And if you're not into that sort of thing...
 
I am confusing SO with a site that aims to help people; not merely beat them down into some numb state of apathy. If you have no empathy for other humans who are honestly trying to help people, then it is easy to watch their activities get burned/destroyed.
 
As I may have mentioned before, the hyperbole is strong with that one. A downvote is beating someone down into a numb state of apathy? OK then.
 
@mickmackusa It's a library of programming knowledge with up- and downvotes as a content rating mechanism.
 
@JeanneDark the content being referenced can be rescued. But that rescue is unlikely to occur if the poster is not informed of what needs to be corrected. All a curator needs to do is not be heartless and give the poster time to make the correction.
 
It's almost as if a lesson could be distilled from this. In order to maximize the potential for learning experiences to occur, focus just on the important information, eliminating the unnecessary chit-chat. :-)
 
7:18 AM
@mickmackusa It's not like there is no way for a user to find that out.
 
Spoken like someone who already knows how to fix the problem and where to find the advice.
If the poster knew what was wrong and how to fix it, they would have done it already. They aren't lazy, they are ignorant.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with this, and I am not objecting to the noise created by making suggestions on how to salvage a post. I'm just saying, leave discussions of and speculations about votes out of them, and if you were prompted to leave an explanation by a confused "why was I downvoted?" comment, still go ahead and flag the confused "why was I downvoted?" comment for removal.
 
Now the state of the activity appears as though Stack Overflow would much rather stomp on ignorance rather than inform it.
 
Didn't we discuss this already? A question that is 2 hours old and already closed doesn't need to be expedited for deletion.
 
@JasonLiam Cody's comment ^ is for you, I think.
 
7:49 AM
Are explicit requests for code review NMF, or not about programming, or just what?
 
I think NMF is a common recommendation
 
The first two votes were for seeking resources o_O
 
8:36 AM
@CodyGray That question will most probably come up in search results when there are already better posts available for that. Also, since the post is recent enough(within past 6 months), I think is better off deleted as soon as possible.
 
@JasonLiam That a post must've had recent activity (in the last 6 months) only concerns cv-pls, not del-pls, requests, as curators use up their close votes much faster.
 
@JasonLiam for merely bad questions, deleting them after 48 hours is what the room's rules recommend, as you have repeatedly been reminded. There is a process for expedited removal when something is exceptionally bad, but these are not exemplars of that. We reserve that process for harmful, rude, spam etc content which really needs to disappear immediately
deleting immediately after closing is harmful because it robs the OP of any chance to edit their question into shape; while this is unusual, it does happen, and we want to encourage it
10
 
9:08 AM
@tripleee Deleting closed questions ASAP is honestly a waste of resources. Well, unless they are very bad. But on average somewhere around 600-800 questions are closed every day. Trying to delete even half with del-votes is going to be at least 900 del-votes. I don't have stats on the room activity level and rep level but I'm not sure if every SOCVR participant pitched in their del-votes that would be achievable.
But probably more importantly, there are much better things to spend time and effort on. In particular, simply closing more questions. Then consign them to the Roomba and save yourself the trouble.
With all that said, if you really think that a question should be deleted - bookmark it. I have a list called "delete when possible" that I put these into. Revisit the list regularly. 2-3 times a week is OK, you don't need to do it every day. A lot of times I find the question is deleted by the question author - no further action needed. Or it might fall into the threshold for Roomba to clean it. Same.
If neither happens, and I still think the question needs to be deleted, I would post a del-pls here.
 
you can also feel free to drop them into the broomba room which I use for the same purpose
though if many people start dropping their del-pls queue there I'd appreciate some help with processing it
 
9:27 AM
Should I be flagging users that have gone on a mass edit spree, removing "thanks in advanced" but not addressing other issues in the post? Or just wait let the automatic edit suspension kick in? I came across one user doing that, some edits are valid as there were no other issues to fix... others were too minor.
I rejected some of the edits with a custom text, hopefully it will reach them: "While removing "Thanks in advanced!" is a valid edit in itself, please also address other issues in the post while editing. Because editing old post is disruptive to the site, causing a "bump", so we should fix as many problems as possible while at it. Also please do not initiate mass editing of posts when you do not yet have full edit privileges."
 
9:41 AM
@VLAZ brilliant idea
@Lundin Personally, I'm quite content if questions like that are bumped. Text like that, IMX, correlates strongly with "this question should have been closed years ago when it was asked, but wasn't". Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
... That said, I do tend to throw del votes out there anyway, when they're offered. My rationale:
 
@Lundin There's nothing to stop you from looking for a specific user's suggested edits; that option is provided to you in their profile page. But it's likely "off-topic" for this room to be discussing a particular user.
 
I like it when bad PHP pages get bumped -- this affords me to post cvpls requests on them.
 
1) from experience, questions at -3 are not in any meaningful sense worse than questions that reach -10. The q-ban algorithm is severe and intentionally not fully understandable. Deleting a question prevents more downvotes from being piled on; people are happy to add more downvotes past -3, while generally the people who upvote bad questions will give up at that point
so, this is for OP's protection, to avoid being punished by a varying, capricious amount without particular justification, as seen by the q-ban algo (which does seem to care about individual scores, based on example situations I've seen in Meta posts).
2) also from experience, questions reaching -3 have effectively zero chance to climb back to 0, even if they're edited. Even getting them to -2 is difficult. Since people are seemingly reluctant to downvote along with their close votes, the questions that do hit -3 are usually still pretty bad, and it will be better IMO for OP to start over with a new question that can get started on a level footing (i.e., at 0).
but I understand that all of this is me hacking around what I perceive as critical flaws in the system.
 
@AdrianMole If more interested in if there's a general policy as in don't bother the mods, the auto ban will take care of it. I've flagged edit sprees before in the past but maybe we shouldn't be doing that.
 
(what exactly is necessary in order for the system to "destroy" spam accounts?)
 
9:51 AM
@KarlKnechtel Seems like another topic. I checked some 10 questions where this edit spree person made changes and I've yet to see a question that should be closed.
 
I guess it's probably a question of degree. If it really is a huge spree, then maybe a flag is warranted. However, as you have already noted, sufficient rejections will kick in an auto-ban (but that relies on one other reviewer rejecting their edits, unless you "Reject and Edit" to get a unilateral verdict).
 
@Lundin From experience: I've flagged users who seem to do long sprees of the same unhelpful edits. Especially removing "thanks" but leaving glaring errors behind. or perhaps only editing to add code blocks but 1. again leaving glaring errors behind 2. the edit only converts indentation to a code fence or similar.
 
Also, I'm not sure that mods can actually impose a manual edit-ban. They could do so, indirectly, I guess, by rejecting enough of the suggestions. (Or a full suspension - but that seems a bit harsh!)
 
@VLAZ Yeah so have I and afaik those flags were always marked helpful, although I don't know what each such matter ended up with.
@AdrianMole They can hand out manual review bans at least, I think? To robo-reviewers?
 
Yeah. That's a bit different, though.
 
9:55 AM
@AdrianMole Relying on other reviewers to reject is pretty spotty. I usually Reject and Edit if a rejection is needed. Because I can't rely that there just won't be two other people who would hit "Approve".
 
If I see that a very poor edit (which I have voted to reject) has an "Approve" vote, then I would normally bring it here, with a "review-pls" request, along with a brief explanation. But doing that "proactively" (i.e. when I'm the first reviewer) needs an especially bad edit.
 
Related, I am quite annoyed at edits that were also marked as "solving the problem" and push the question to the reopen queue. For those, the only actions I can take are "Approve and reopen", "Approve and leave closed", or "Reject". That's it. No way to unilaterally reject when the edit just adds maybe some punctuation and capitalises a couple of words at the start of sentences.
 
If something is unclear, but I think it's a) likely to be clarified and b) almost certainly a duplicate of one of several possibilities, once clarified (I don't know which one yet, but I'm confident it will be drawn from a small set) - should I still vtc, or wait?
 
@VLAZ I guess the argument there is that, if you were to change the edit, then it may look weird to reviewers in the reopen queue. Dunno.
 
@VLAZ I think that maybe if you can find such a post in the close vote review, it could be unilaterally dupe hammered. But only by gold badgers.
 
10:03 AM
@KarlKnechtel I dilemma I face often... :( My approach is sometimes to wait for a bit. Go do other things, then go back to the tab in 5-30 minutes or whatever it takes. If it's a duplicate then I hammer it. Alternatively, if I don't feel like waiting, I just VTC immediately. And then might post the duplicate as a comment at a later point in time, if it's clear it's one.
In either case, it's exceptionally rare that the question is a good sign post anyway.
 
@KarlKnechtel you'd be amazed how prevalent this is; have a look at the #spellcaster tag in metasmoke
also for your amusement, #illuminati
@KarlKnechtel it's done manually by mods, rather erratically it seems (some do, some don't)
 
@AdrianMole Probably. I'd argue it doesn't make for a good experience both when reviewing the edit or when reviewing to reopen.
 
@KarlKnechtel The main problem in such situations is that if you have a gold badge you can't hammer by casting the unclear vote. What's worse, if the post gets clarified, you have forfeit your close voting rights on that post. Posts with multiple problems are always cumbersome to moderate.
 
FR: New close-vote reason - Unclear duplicate that requires more focus and belongs on another site.
 
@AdrianMole Just change the radio buttons to checkboxes.
 
10:10 AM
hehe
 
@VLAZ It's actually not a bad idea, if each issue with the question got its own close vote track record. Like: closed as duplicate but there are also pending close votes as unclear. Then the post could be blocked from reopen review while there are pending close votes. And reopen reviewers would be informed: this was closed as duplicate and unclear.
 
@Lundin I've suggested more granular problem votes. Essentially, for a closed question optionally you can tick one or more specific problems to address. This is presented as anonymous feedback to the question asker. And when they are making their edit to reopen, it shows up as a todo list for what to change. Maybe even make the question asker/editor tick off the problems to say "Yes, I have solved this".
Won't do anything and won't really be verified by the system but right now many submit for reopen review without actually addressing any problems. As mentioned, maybe they edit punctuation and suspect it'd be good to go.
 
Another problem is that the majority of re-open reviews aren't dealing with a situation where the OP tries to address the reason why something got closed, but just made some generic changes. But I don't know how to solve that...
 
@Lundin It's due to that problem that I don't use the reopen review queue.
> Become a Robo Genius & Change the World:
Like, the Apple Geniuses? Or do they just duct-tape a CPU to your brain?
 
10:26 AM
@Lundin One that has been occurring recently, since the new "Not in English" CV reason, is that OP has translated into English but the question is still unclear (or has some other problem). For "Need details or clarity", that's fine; but, as the reopen UI is currently broken, we can't change the reason to any of the "Site-specific issues."
 
Yeah so we need them close reason checkboxes instead of radio buttons! :)
 
Question goes to the reopen queue, exits closed for even more reasons.
 
10:47 AM
Screenshot. It really puts the problem into perspective.
 
@VLAZ That's very clear and easily answerable: You need to find a usable version of libssl :)
 
@AdrianMole It's made harder to answer because it was posted as an answer.
I mean, it wasn't. But it the text was put in that answer box regardless.
 
11:25 AM
@Lundin Yes; that's why it's, like, actually an issue
if I weren't limited like that, I would gleefully VTC unclear, and then fix it to the dupe later if it does get cleared up.
@VLAZ Unironically, though.
 
@KarlKnechtel Let gold badge holders assign a duplicate, after already voting to close But I'm with Makyen in the comments - I think generalising to changing the close vote is more useful. Another problem is that somebody says "I have issue" with no details then they add the code and they've missed a bracket or have other typo.
 
@VLAZ I have a feeling all you guys are going to love the 4-part blog post series I plan to be doing throughout February.
 
Like on the SO blog? That might actually get me to read it.
 
@VLAZ I don't remember upvoting this, somehow.
 
deleted by OP now
 
11:39 AM
@tripleee I'd say it's not broad. But still not useful. The code OP is supposedly confused by is a simple for loop. That's really it. Explaining what it does would involve how loops work. And with that explanation the rest is "loops over each win condition and checks if it applies".
 
@VLAZ no, on my personal blog. It would be nice to be important enough for Jeff Atwood's crew to care about me and promote my content personally, but I have to settle for merely having collaborated on Q&A with people like Raymond Hettinger, Tim Peters and Tom Christiansen.
 
Not really "wisdom for the ages", I'd say.
 
@KarlKnechtel Is there really much of Jeff's crew left at SO?
 
I have no idea, but I was only trying for metonymy there anyway.
Alternately: as long as Atwood himself is there and in charge, other employees are definitionally his crew.
(wait, is he?)
 
I think he left years ago
 
11:43 AM
@KarlKnechtel No :/
 
Atwood left in 2014. Then Spolsky was CEO until 2020 something, but not very active and was clearly aiming to sell the company.
 
ah, that probably explains why it seems like such a large fraction of Meta dates to 2014.
 
The current CEO Chandrasekar seemed to have been appointed just for the task of cutting off non-profitable areas of the company so they could sell it to some sucker. And then they did just that.
 
I assume that "non-profitable areas of the company" are those which were beyond Chandrasekar's limit
 
@KarlKnechtel They fired a lot of staff company-wide but also closed down the Jobs product. There were also statistics people and such employed previously, working full-time with surveys and site statistics.
 
11:54 AM
@KarlKnechtel they sunset the jobs search which was appreciated by many, but apparently not sustainable, and pushed hard to launch Teams aka private Stack Overflow for internal use at companies
 
What sucked the most for regular users was that two of the veteran CMs were fired at that time too.
 
(what do you recommend for jobs search nowadays?)
 
12:07 PM
@KarlKnechtel If one was to try and check your blog in February, how would they do that?
 
12:17 PM
@VLAZ zahlman.github.io apparently?
 
12:32 PM
I so enjoy watching tripleee slowly building rep on JSE. Nearly able to self-nominate for a mod diamond there! joomla.stackexchange.com/users/9485/tripleee
 
@tripleee I'm not going to ask how you found out when it's not linked anywhere in the profile. (I guess you used a search engine, though)
 
Speaking of discontinued SO features... there was once a blog feature for users on the site. I discovered it by reading the message that it would no longer be supported. A shame really.
 
@Lundin Sorry, I have to ask - do you employ sarcasm about the state of the current SO blog? Or was there an actual blog feature for each user?
It's a bit hard to tell.
 
12:48 PM
@VLAZ A blog feature for each user, if you fancied having one.
 
OK, didn't know about that.
 
The current blog seems like some mix of random pods and adverts... I don't really read it.
 
@AdrianMole Loosely related: I wonder when will we just start getting screenshots of ChatGPT as answers.
 
@AdrianMole The question itself should have been closed too (it is now) and if we'd delete the whole thing in one go, then no loss.
 
@Lundin Meh, it'd be gone in 10 days. No need to bother with trying to remove it early. It's essentially buried now anyway. And unanswerable until reopened. There is a slim chance it is but even if not Roomba has our backs.
 
12:54 PM
Morning
 
@VLAZ Karl's profile has a Github link and there among the repos you find the one for the blog, which is hosted on Github pages
 
@Cristik Why chase down these really old tool recommendation questions? They are wildly off-topic by the site's current standards, but they weren't at the time posted.
 
@mickmackusa actually my lofty goal is to reach 125 rep so I can downvote spam
 
@VLAZ I'm pretty sure I saw something like that once
 
@tripleee *facepalm* I did check the profile but completely missed the GitHub link...
 
12:56 PM
mission accomplished but of course if I downvote something which isn't subsequently deleted I will need to work some more
 
@tripleee Start making suggested edits. Each one approved is two downvotes!
 
that's what I've been doing, slowly
 
The only problem is that the rep from edits is limited. Bad posts aren't.
 
on Joomla in particular, spam isn't a very serious problem
 
Well, spam in particular is adequately handled by spam flags. So, no need to downvote it.
 
1:00 PM
I know, it just irks me when I can't also downvote it
 
This is NAA, is not? From what I can tell, it seems to be a reply to (comment on) the other answer, but I can't be sure about that. I just can't see how it can, itself, be construed as an answer, but maybe I'm missing something.
 
@AdrianMole To me it also doesn't look like it contains any hint of a possible solution. It seems that they just tried out the answer and got the error message.
 
1:21 PM
It is not clear to me why this answer has a negative score. stackoverflow.com/a/75258494/2943403
 
@mickmackusa Possible spam flag? (It was reported by Smokey but has only one feedback, which was NAA.)
 
Is it possible that the poster is as clueless as me about the score?
 
Also, some scripts have an "automatic downvote" when an NAA flag is raised.
 
It's not a spam flag, FWIW
 
@mickmackusa Honestly, I don't think it's a great answer. It links to an article and it cites part of it. Which shows the reason the error happens. It's technically an answer. Let's say, at least partial one, since once you know it's about bean overriding, you can try to find out more information. Yet, the answer could have also shown a solution. Yes, the article contains solutions but if we really go down that route, it's link-only.
 
1:29 PM
I'm not sure it's NAA either. Looked like a new user trying to quote a source with an answer
 
@Machavity Yeah, I wouldn't call it NAA. But not great at being an answer, either.
 
I edited it a bit so it's clearer it's an answer. But I'd agree it's not a terribly useful one either
 
1:40 PM
@Lundin note that I'm not making del-pls requests because those questions are software recommendation ones, but mainly because they are simply duplicating other questions, without bringing anything new over the duplicate targets.
we don't need N questions asking the same thing, and receive the same answers (or a subset)
 
Is this just NAA or worthy of R/A? Seems like a copy/paste of an error message the poster received when trying to do something, somewhere.
 
@Cristik Fair enough
 
@AdrianMole I think NAA. I suspect the user had problem with whatever "telethon" is and posted a question about it on the first thing they found.
 
@AdrianMole I'd go with NAA, I don't think the user would deserve the penalty that comes with R/A
 
It's also not the first time somebody has a problem with X and posts a response to a random question about X. Some people who are clearly not programmers have responded to questions about eBat or Amazon and other with complaints or questions about their non-programming services.
 
1:47 PM
how ethical is this chain of events: user asks a question about a new technology, user self-answers, and later on they write a blog article and update the answer so it begins with the link to their blog article?
it this actionable, i.e. should we remove that link?
 
@Cristik As long as it is on-topic and answers the question, I see no problem with it, given that the link is also relevant to the question (as in a link to a blog page about the specific topic). It's quite normal to give a brief summarised answer with a link to an external source.
 
@mickmackusa does that mean no repro?
 
@tripleee yes. Whoops, I left that keyword out of my cvpls. Sorry.
Can anyone with the forecaster tell me if this typo question will Roomba?
 
2:04 PM
it will in 8 days
 
8 days or one more delete vote
 
bah yeah
 
How to protect yourself against fraud stripe api nodejs Leaning towards needs focus, anyone have an opinion?
I voted but it aged away
 
@CertainPerformance I agree with NMF on the face of it
 
@CertainPerformance Needs for focus or opinion-based, either can be used.
 
2:18 PM
I figured opinion-based, due to "best practices"
 
Is this an appropriate comment? Not sure if I'm giving the OP too much information for their assignment or if I'm kind of answering in the comments, especially since it's technically off-topic as written due to the images of code.
@aynber The whole concept of "best practices" is flawed (and opinion-based) anyway. There are no best practices, just good practices.
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Not really what comments are for.
 
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Eeeezactly
 
@JeanneDark Yeah, not sure if I was kinda answering in the comments. I'll delete it and add it as an answer if the OP edits to improve the question.
 
Is hard to turn that into a suitable question
 
2:33 PM
@CodyGray Nice edit. I'm OK with binning the request.
 
2:54 PM
@tripleee oh dear, I've been found out. but yes, I am about to start the project of actually using the blog, the way I originally planned on last year.
@VLAZ TBF, a github link doesn't exactly advertise "blog here!"
@VLAZ the answer does describe a solution. sort of.
writing answers in good Q&A format is not trivial.
probably easier than the questions, though.
@AdrianMole it's complete nonsense afaict. my gut says VLQ actually
but I guess NAA supercedes that?
 
@KarlKnechtel Were I a mod, I would approve any of NAA, VLQ or R/A. But I'm not, so I'm waiting to see what someone who is will do with it (if the curators don't get it, first). :)
 
@KarlKnechtel There's no real difference between NAA and VLQ except for some implementation details (like an edit marking VLQ flag helpful) and you can flag both kinds of answers either as NAA or VLQ.
 
3:17 PM
oh, I just managed to parse that nonsense answer. Apparently that guy was trying to use the code in the question to solve a problem?
i.e., literally the opposite of how stack overflow works
looking at those two duplicates makes me cry
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis I would say the question should stay, as it tackles the problem from another angle, even if the explanation is the same as for the other questions. It's a good signpost, IMO
 
3:40 PM
@HenryEcker oh, uh, errr, I guess I did actually cover that, didn't I...
 
KGG
5:16 PM
stackoverflow.com/questions/75261182 I wish I can reply with, "Okay, so, what is the question?"
 
5:31 PM
 
KGG
@tripleee Not getting the same answer on chatgbt :O so unsure :D
 
@KGG I don’t think it’s guaranteed that ChatGPT will provide the same answer every time. FWIW, I find it very likely that this is generated by ChatGPT. It has most of the patterns: heavily commented code, lack of formatting in prose, “Here is an example”. The only grammatically incorrect thing is the last paragraph: “It's worth noting that this is just an example, you can customize the makefile to your specific needs” — The comma should either be a semicolon or a period.
 
5:55 PM
@tripleee Extremely likely. I threw a flag at it.
 
KGG
@SebastianSimon No idea honestly, I just find it weird why would someone bother making a chatGbt account, make a stack account, just to answer that specific question with a generated answer. Can't think of any benefits
Question though, if I wanted to flag that answer, what would be the correct flag? Moderators intervention?
 
@KGG Yes. Explain that you feel it is written using Chat GPT and why you feel that way. Also include links to other answers that you feel the user made using Chat GPT. If that answer list becomes exhaustive, raising a flag per answer would also (probably?) be acceptable.
 
@KGG in some areas of the world (or some types of businesses) reputation on SO is for some reason considered a good thing for hiring purposes. in a... "every little bit helps" kind of way
but also, it's a heavily gamified system, people do gain some self-fulfillment feeling out of it seeing their reputation number go up, regardless of the means to accomplish it
 
KGG
@KevinB eek! perhaps I have fallen to this category a little. I really like helping out on the tags I'm watching, since there is a great flow of new developers taking a liking to the framework. But the idea of collecting points seems fun xD
 
6:12 PM
I just like the power that comes with it. muahahaha
 
the gamification is probably one of the reasons Stack Overflow became popular, but it has some nasty side effects, like the Fatest Gun In The West answering tactic, to post an answer as quickly as possible, often with complete disregard to the question's quality, let alone then spend effort to search for existing duplicates
at my rep level, a few popular old answers keep earning upvotes at a steady rate (for me, on the order of five per day maybe) but the green new rep balloon is still mesmerizing enough that it gets me to try to answer new questions when I can
 
@VLAZ yeah, I gave it a R/A flag, the answer is unsalvageable even if the R/A content is removed
 
6:31 PM
> Fatest Gun In The West
Now that's a term I've not heard before :-P
Poor gun can't help its figure
 
@TylerH That would be "fattest" but we're talking about destiny here!
 
"the validator isn't happy if I do X, and says to do "y" instead. But if I do "y", then I am the one who is unhappy.
Oh what a happy simplistic problem to have :-)
"I am unhappy" is going to be your default state when programming before long, buddy :-P
 
Would anyone want to hear my Friday work rant?
 
Yes
 
6:42 PM
Post it on Meta.
 
just let it all out
 
yea
 
In SAP we code in ABAP. It wouldn't be the worst language except there are no standards, no good IDEs, very bad version control, and people do whatever feels the easiest at the moment...
So I am really frustrated when I have to read code like this:
> IF ls_step_action-action = /mdg/if_gl_util_constants~gc_cr_act_svfdbck.
Who can tell me what this IF does?
 
ABAP, that's a name I've not heard in a long time
 
umm...
Are we allowed to use ChatGPT to answer questions in Chat 😆?
 
6:45 PM
of course
 
The last bit looks like cat-across keyboard.
 
data I get out of sap rarely has fields that mean anything at all
HEKSHEALN -> web order num
 
It's SAP's pride and joy that every field name is undecipherable.
 
@Spevacus account saved feedback or something is what it stands for probably
or active saved feedback
Anyway I'm sure the fdbck bit stands for feedback
 
If I can just decipher this line and the other 1700 lines of code in this method before the end of the day, maybe I will be able to find the bug
 
6:48 PM
we have an import process built by a consultant that randomly just doesn't insert an order, with no error or anything, it just pretends everything is fine and moves on
even sends the input file into the complete folder for good measure
 
Need debugging help? Stack Overflow is the world's Number One resource.
 
can't debug code i don't have access to
 
Looks like they are trying to be super granular while also not have super long variable names, so now you just get acronym alphabet soup for variable names.
 
@Dharman If the last step action taken by the code (e.g. button press, I'm guessing) is equal to the value from that feedback table in your mdg database, then do something
 
Dharman Needs debugging details.
8
 
6:50 PM
Please reopen Dharman right now!
 
if_gl_util_constants is just an interface containing constants for General Ledger accounts
 
IIRC ~ is used to select data from a database table in ABAP. /mdg/if_gl_util_constants~gc_cr_act_svfdbck Means select the gc_cr_act_Svfdbck table from the if_gl_util_constants table
 
gc_cr_act_svfdbck = Global Constant Change Request Activation Save Feedback
 
Gesundheit.
 
it's code, just use full names, gosh
 
6:53 PM
@KevinB Next you'll tell people to use spaces in filenames
what is this, chaos theory?!
 
i mean..
what's wrong with spaces
 
(I'm fine with them, personally)
 
Spaces just take up, well, too much space.
 
i prefer dashes, but they take up just as much space
 
Space in filenames... not OK for folks with astrophobia
2
 
6:55 PM
I don't mind spaces in file names but I'm so used to not using them as I've had applications that don't work well with them. Also windows command terminal does not like spaces in commands so you wind up using lots of double quotes around things.
 
@TylerH Astrophobia - is that when you put a tick for both fear of open spaces and enclosed spaces?
 
I dunno, since it's both maybe it would be diastrophobia.
@Dharman what do you use for debugging ABAP?
 
it has a built-in debugger
 
Ah yeah, the one in the editor
Whenever I would see that editor it always reminds me of the VBA editor
 
@GertArnold I don't think adding some SQL code would make any difference, the question looks self-sufficient enough without it
 
7:11 PM
@TylerH Curious that a post about astraphobia gets starred!
 
I think whoever did it was intentional :-)
 
One of the cool ABAP features is that a method can declare Importing, Exporting, Changing and Returning parameters.
This results in a method that does everything
 
@Dharman Effective programming always has one method that does everything. At least for version 1.0 of software. How else are programmers supposed to find a job debugging code?!
 
Does ABAP have proper data structures? No, no no. Everything is either a scalar value, a structure or a table, or an object, or a reference, or a field symbol, or some weird combination of all of them
I got used to it, but seeing something like ASSIGN ls_cr_data-r_data->* TO <lfs_ent_data>. LOOP <lfs_ent_data> ... is not something I wish upon other people.
 
7:27 PM
Yeah, that's rough
 
7:50 PM
 
8:07 PM
@Cristik No, this is an exception in C# code (Entity Framework). It can really be anything.
 
8:33 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:47 PM
@Cristik What do you mean Should've been a comment Answer?
 
the first part of the answer should have been a comment, but is You are probably looking for generate_family_file.py. an answer?
 
It crosses the answer line IMHO
 
10:50 PM
^^ whoops please edit that to delpls
This answer is seeking support -- NAA, right? It's in a weird grey zone for me. Should it be converted to an edit of the question?
 
@mickmackusa it's the OP, so that should be an edit to the question, not an answer, i think
hmm... must not engage rude user
 
11:13 PM
@jmoerdyk who is the rude user?
 
I VTC an off topic question with comment, and they respond with a link to a youtube video how SO is toxic
 
11:29 PM
@jmoerdyk Flag.
 
@VLAZ already handled
 
Perfect.
 
@jmoerdyk ha, I just watched that whole video! I have countless arguments against that person's critique of the asker experience. youtube.com/watch?v=N7v0yvdkIHg&feature=shares (...then I downvoted the video.)
 
that's the one
 
The vlogger refuses to read how to ask a good question, then complains about receiving a question ban.
 
11:40 PM
play stupid games, win stupid prizes
 

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