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12:10 AM
... but, of course, the answers aren't delible! Well, that's the rub. Please stop using this room as a "boost my opinion" tool. That's not what it is - or what it can ever be - or it will be (quickly) shut down as a voting ring/cabal.
For example, let's say this Q is deleted from here: can you imagine the Meta post that may follow? Can you, then, defend your request?
... bear in mind, it's not just you on the line in such Meta posts ... it's the very existence of this room.
 
12:55 AM
@AdrianMole I have verbosely explained in previous comments that it is not a good page for Stack Overflow. There is a far more focused and clear canonical (with even higher page views and higher voted top answer).
The page is very much inferior to the other page and the answers have been impacted by late-delivered question details. I am only aiming to curate for the betterment of the researcher experience. I would post my explanation on MSO if need be. If you don't agree with my justifications, you don't need to delvote.
SO optimizes for diamonds. The other page is solid, this page with delpls is more coal than diamond. Curation does involve some loss, but it does not aim to lose value. There will be no value lost to researchers after the very old question is deleted.
 
Also, the answer looks to be a little "bot-ish"
 
1:47 AM
 
1:58 AM
@mickmackusa You say, "it involves some loss.." Yes, it does. Why is that loss worthwhile? What is not losing those good answers worthy of our delete votes? What harm is being done to the internet/world/site by those answers (and the question) by their continued existence?
 
2:36 AM
@Ethan I wonder who upvoted this
 
3:09 AM
@AdrianMole This will be the last time that I explain. If you don't agree with my perspective, I respect that and won't waste anymore time trying to convince you particularly. Sorted by Trending, the top answer is fine. The second answer is misleading.
3rd answer is good but is guessing at the desired result because the Q asks for two kinds of results. 4th deviates from the sample data. 5th changes the sample data for no reason/benefit. 6th creates an array type result for no benefit. 7th repeats the 1st. All remaining answers needlessly deviate from the asker's sample data and cause confusion.
 
Can anyone else reproduce this Meta report that the issue has been fixed? Seems to be still broken for me (as it's been for years)
 
@AdrianMole The dup target suffers none of the mess and far less redundancy. The page has been far better maintained by the community in terms of answer quality and score. As a researcher, I would prefer the page. Conversely, the page with the delpls request has not been well curated over its lifetime. It is time to amputate.
 
3:39 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
5:21 AM
When you reject an edit with the "spam or vandalism" option, and it's not an audit, does it do anything more moddy-flaggy-followup than other rejections?
 
@DanielWiddis No it's a normal rejection. There's nothing special about it. If you think that it warrants additional follow-up, feel free to mod flag it. Flagging on one of the editors posts is appreciated if possible, but flagging any post works.
 
Huh. Unfortunately it's an anonymous user, so that's not gonna happen.
 
@DanielWiddis Yeah. Really nothing can be done there other than to reject the edit. We don't have the tools to handle anonymous users really
 
@DanielWiddis (cc @HenryEcker) For anonymous users specifically, when the suggested edit is rejected as spam, that temporarily hobbles the IP and prevents them from suggesting additional edits. So, in the special case of anonymous users, that rejection reason is not just a normal rejection reason and is actually quite powerful. Use it when it applies. There are a fair number of spam/abusive edits submitted by anonymous users, which is why the feature exists.
 
@CodyGray Cool, thanks!
 
Cewtainly; any time.
 
6:16 AM
@CodyGray Ah good to know that it has special properties for anonymous users. It'd be nice if there was some indication of that somewhere...
 
You mean aside from being buried in various answers on Meta sites?
 
Also just to clarify, it wouldn't affect a registered user if one of their suggestions were rejected for that reason. (Other than the normal consequences for an edit being rejected)
 
It might have the same effect when used on a regular user as it would for an anonymous user in terms of hobbling the IP (I am not actually sure), but that would not have an effect on an established user account anyway, so in practice, no real benefit, unless the established user decides to create additional accounts for the purposes of retrying to submit the spam/abusive edit.
Oh, one other difference: suggested edits that are rejected as spam/vandalism are not visible to anonymous users.
 
Hm. Interesting. All that seems like good things to happen when the edit gets rejected for that reason. Again, it would be nice if these things were more clear somewhere that wasn't scatter across several sites and decades.
 
Where would the fun be in that?
 
6:23 AM
I'll take Meta Trivia for $600, Alex.
 
What is the name of Stack Overflow's chat system?
Oh dang, we already did that one. :-(
 
@miken32 the point of Docker is that you can isolate the system from your host
so you can run 32 instances of different versions of nginx at the same time or whatever your use case requires
 
@CodyGray Is there a joke here that I'm missing or is that a typo?
 
@HenryEcker Silly wabbit, the typo is the joke.
It's also from the Three Stooges.
 
@tripleee What do you mean by vandalism?
 
6:32 AM
useless cruft posted solely for the poster's amusement; they are basically defacing the site
 
sounds like R/A then
 
no objection to that either, especially if you are <20k
 
Hm. Okay. I wasn't familiar with the term vandalism being used to describe anything other than defacing (or otherwise being intentionally destructive to) existing content.
@CodyGray I didn't have either of those references before I googled "Silly wabbit." I don't know that I've ever seen anything of the Three Stooges. I've heard the name before though.
 
@HenryEcker "Vandalism" isn't quite the right word. I think "abusive" is closer to what tripleee was referencing. See also: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/317611
@HenryEcker You've never seen Bugs Bunny?
 
Certainly heard of Bugs Bunny and could recognise a picture/drawing, but never the show or movie? or whatever?
 
6:38 AM
@JasonLiam "Needs clarity" is a close reason, not a deletion reason. If you are going to post a "del-pls" request, you need to include a legitimate justification for deleting the post, especially when it's a question that is less than a few days old (as the author should be given a chance to edit those after they're closed; that's the whole point of the closure system).
 
@CodyGray I see, so IMO it is unclear and probably not useful to future readers
 
Yes, and that would be a valid reason to delete it were the question an older one. New questions should generally not be deleted (only closed) to give the author a chance to fix them if they're going to. (Many people don't, of course, but we shouldn't foreclose the opportunity for anyone to do it because some people don't do it. It misses the whole point of the system.)
If you are proposing to delete a question that is only a couple of hours or days old, there needs to be a clear and compelling justification for an expedited deletion. For example, the question is causing some kind of harm.
 
I tend to agree. That's a user who's actively making improvements to their post (or trying to at least). I'm not sure what deleting it from under them accomplishes. It's also (apparently) clear enough that it garnered several answers including an accepted answer.
That said, I agree with the closure (in its current state at least). I have no idea what the part about hex and dec is about.
 
Yeah, I'm definitely not disputing the closure. Only arguing that (A) deletion is not a super-downvote or super-closevote, and (B) if you believe in the closure system, then you have to also at least hold out the opportunity for people to fix their questions. If you don't, then the whole system breaks down.
That said, I don't think the question is unsalvageably unclear... They want to byte-swap a hexadecimal input, then interpret the byte-swapped hexadecimal value as a decimal value. Their sample code is, as usual, mostly a distraction and it probably would be better if it weren't included at all.
 
6:57 AM
It's hard to believe that was a real answer.
 
Judging by the comment ("i didn't have any result"), I guess they didn't manage to achieve step 5 ("Profit").
 
They must have had trouble discovering step 4.
 
7:22 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (invalid reason given; no justification for expedited deletion)
 
KGG
I'm not quiet sure how to flag something like this, stackoverflow.com/questions/75243022 Other than its like a homework question
 
Needs more focus imo
 
@KGG "homework" is not a close reason. Does it need details or clarity or is it answerable as is? Is it maybe a dupe?
 
KGG
@JeanneDark Honestly unsure, it more of "Fix this for me" and perhaps adds little to no value to the tags its under.
 
Looks like a "How to" question to me that might need some editing
 
7:27 AM
It doesn't seem to ask a question, so that's immediately a problem. Whether or not it's homework is irrelevant.
It doesn't seem to ask multiple questions, and although I lack expertise in the subject matter, it's difficult for me to see how an answer would be too long to fit in our Q&A format, so I don't see how it lacks focus.
 
ah so no question should be closed with needs clarity or details?
 
I would say so. If you don't know what the question is, or there isn't a question, how are you supposed to answer it? That lacks clarity to me.
 
@user56700 No, else there would be no need for that close reason
 
cool
 
The fun grammatical ambiguities of the English language. :-)
 
7:29 AM
@CodyGray it seems to me that "get same key 's value from 3 array" might be an attempt at formulating a question
 
Yeah, it's possibly an attempt. It isn't clear to me. Although I agree it's likely that someone with PHP subject-matter expertise could edit that into a valid question and/or find a good duplicate target.
 
I do think English is very hard to understand some times.
 
KGG
I could technically answer the question but it just felt lazy and not putting any effort into asking a proper question.
my personal opinion at least
 
Expressing that opinion is why the downvote arrow exists. That is not a reason to vote to close a question.
 
KGG
yeah :D
 
7:31 AM
don't start again with mickmack :D
 
Since SO is not a helpdesk, it's rarely important whether the OP put in some effort or not
 
KGG
@user56700 hehe
 
A question can be lazy and effort-free without being off-topic or otherwise unsuitable for the site. You may well find that lack of effort to be personally irritating, and that's why we give you a way to express that opinion.
 
true, I do agree with that
 
8:01 AM
mmm coffee makes me happy
 
It's why I program in Java. All about the caffiene.
 
hehehaha
 
8:37 AM
oof telephone no.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:08 AM
stackoverflow.com/a/75244653/5211833 is this abusive? OP of the question edited a question by OP of the answer
 
@Adriaan given it is r/a deleted, yes.
 
@rene thanks for that mustard, but I've already eaten my meal :P
 
Never can't be too spicy
 
also reported to SD by a certain Cody Gray with the comment "rude"
 
Don't trust random folks on the internet to be correct.
 
10:23 AM
Those glasses make him look so trustworthy, though...
 
Those glasses didn't help me unblur things
le sigh
 
@SmokeDetector facepalm Now we wait for them to vandalise their other posts
 
You're going to have to wait quite a while.
 
10:43 AM
Is this NAA (Link only)?
 
@AmitJoshi It looks like an answer, and with just enough in addition to the link that it isn't link-only.
 
@StephenOstermiller Question is "How to..." and answer is "It is possible; see the link".
 
11:43 AM
this isn't exactly a typo / no repro but I feel it's low value - any thoughts? stackoverflow.com/questions/75245618/…
@tripleee actually I guess "details or clarity"
 
@tripleee Since it's a how to question, typo is unlikely to fit. Either needs details or clarity or maybe it's s dupe.
 
thanks, I spent some time looking for a dupe but I gave up
 
jps
12:40 PM
Someone answered to a question about encryption/decryption code with the code they found in another question and mentions that the linked answer contains the second half (decryption). I think flagging as duplicate would be more appropriate. Any advice? I can't vote anymore, already voted "needs focus".
@tripleee btw. it's tagged , isn't this one of your domains?
 
I am active in the Bash tag, yes; that's how I came across it
oh you mean the one you asked about? weird to want to use shell script for that
 
jps
12:56 PM
@tripleee yes, I only talk about the vigenere cipher in bash question and didn't pay attention to what was talked about before. Thanks for swinging the gold hammer.
 
the threading showed you responding to an earlier discussion where I asked for opinions about another message slightly earlier
 
jps
and here misguided reaction regarding my question above: I didn't want to be mean, so I tried to help him instead of flagging his question
 
@jps That's pretty much how SO wants to work these days. All language about a repository for high quality Q&A is gone and now we have: Stack Overflow helps people find the answers they need, when they need them.
 
jps
1:12 PM
@NathanOliver damn, why didn't I know that earlier. I could have answered dozens of questions instead of closing them as a duplicate.
 
@jps As long as you realise your mistake, you'd eventually be forgiven. The closure system is actually a bug and you've been exploiting it to deny personalised answers. So, you need to be punished. All coffee in your house has now been laced with shame.
 
jps
@VLAZ Shame on me. Will try my best to ignore the duplicate close reason in future and try to write more answers esp. to questions that come up 3 times a week and have already 99+ dups
 
Yes, that's it. This is how you build a reusable repository of knowledge. By copy/pasting reusing the same solutions to each question that comes up.
 
@jps Yesssss, come to the dark side. Then once you get a gold tag badge you can go back to dupe closing ;)
 
Help SO become a place again where newbies help each other do their homework without elitist rogue admins running around closing and editing questions and downgrading beginners!
 
1:27 PM
@JeanneDark Just like it was initially intended.
 
jps
@NathanOliver I had a case in the past where I voted to close a question as a duplicate. The dup target had an answer from one user that is very active on that tag. The OP denied that the linked answers would help. Then the same user who already answered the dup target, also answered the current question with an almost identical (if not directly copied) answer, and -surprise surprise - the OP happily accepted the answer.
 
@jps Had to warn a user with poor comment responses and got this gem in response
> he bullied me so i had to wake him up because there are a lot of people on stack overflow that are mean and a youtuber said that if anyone finds one of them we should wake them up and make sure they never do it again youtube.com/watch?v=RPbynQsdl24
I might have facepalmed my elbow through the desk on that
 
@jps When you don't know what you're doing it much easier to get an answer you can copy and paste into your code base and you can just continue on. Learning something is so overrated these days
 
@NathanOliver In one of life's great ironies ChatGPT is probably going to replace SO for that
 
The funny part is a bet they grabbed a data dump of all of SO's content to help train the AI
 
1:38 PM
It's the ciiiircle of liiiife...
 
@NathanOliver Well, if it's really trained on SO alone, wouldn't it be generating a lot of SQL injection vulnerable code? Or code that doesn't compile, or doesn't do what it should. Maybe that's actually a blessing in disguise.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
jps
@NathanOliver so if we stop answering questions about new things because everyone goes to chatCPT, the AI will also have no answers anymore in future and then people come here asking with a remark like "I did not find an answer on ChatGPT".... circle of life
 
> For example, it can potentially turn the code into ransomware if the script and syntax problems are fixed
Oh no - it really was trained on SO!
 
@jps Thanks
 
2:55 PM
SO is down with the sickness maintenance.
And up again.
 
bounce
 
3:09 PM
@jps link?
 
MSO is still up, for your complaining pleasure
 
I'm not experiencing any site issues at the moment, FWIW
 
4:02 PM
Ooh, that cheeky Peter Mortensen has swooped past me in the editors' league table 😄
 
I'm surprised anyone was ever ahead of him
 
We are both trailing marc_s by some margin - stackoverflow.com/users?tab=Editors&filter=all
 
I'm guessing you use a bot/user script?
 
No, just bookmarks of threads to pull on - though I do have vague automation plans...
 
Peter is quaking in his talons already :-)
 
4:08 PM
Cackle cackle 😆
 
5:24 PM
 
6:18 PM
@KarlKnechtel You want us to post spam answers?
 
heh. I guess I meant spam but my brain didn't cooperate
 
@JeanneDark Why didn't you give them a demo?
 
6:33 PM
Advice pls. Are questions about prompt design on-topic? I.E. How do I use chatGPT for foreign languages?
 
@Rubén no, this question is not about programming or software development. It's about a service and how to use/interact with it
questions about chatgpt or any AI-based tool need to be programmatic in nature
 
@TylerH Some people argue that prompt design is a form to do programming.
 
I would suggest those people are wrong, but this isn't even 'prompt design'. It is just asking "what do I put in to get some content out"
If it helps, substitute 'chatgpt' with 'Siri'. This is equivalent to asking "What do I ask Siri in order to have her tell me the weather"
If you are programming Siri to provide that, then you can ask a question about implementing a set of responses, but even just asking what you should say is no different than, like, "what should I name this variable?"
 
@TylerH I don't think that ChatGPT should be compared with Siri or similar Virtual Assistants.
 
I'm not comparing ChatGPT to Siri, although I think they are comparable
I'm comparing the functionality here
ChatGPT is not a tool primarily used for programming, so any questions about it need to be specifically programming-based
"What do I ask ChatGPT in order to get a response" is simply not a programming question
 
6:44 PM
I agree that the question might be closed as needs more details in the someway that someone paste a command line without providing enough details...
 
@Rubén By that logic designing a prompt towards a human to get a desired response would also be programming. Actually that's called Neuro-linguistic programming, but that kind of programming is not on-topic here.
 
@gre_gor Is Neuro Linguistic Programming off-otopic because it's about programming humans instead of machines or because it's psedo-science more related to psichology than to computer sciences?
 
yes?
 
Is there a good reason not to suggest the localized stack overflow sites in the "not written in english" close dialog?
 
Yes. This was already discuseed in Meta
 
6:50 PM
@KarlKnechtel Well, we have a fair few such that it would make the dialogue window pretty lengthy
And it would only get worse if we add more
@Rubén For all we know, OP is using a UI and just typing in content and expecting content returned... not even using a command line.
If you are curious for the broader community's opinion, you can ask about this specific question on Meta, but I don't think my view is going to change here. The question is simply not about programming, at least as phrased now.
 
@TylerH OK Thanks. I might ask again when there is a better example / the question be updated to be closer to the programmers minset.
 
7:52 PM
> I tried to use ChatGPT, but the server is at capacity.
^ Good news, maybe. But is such a remark in an answer worthy of further attention?
Actually, is this even an answer?
 
it's a sign post
with extra useless steps
 
Can we close it as a duplicate? xD
 
8:12 PM
Is this R/A? Looks like it's just copied from some guidelines for markdown formatting. It certainly has nothing to with the actual question. I currently have NAA on it.
 
Im leaning toward R/A. I would wait for one more person before flagging
 
@Ethan Looks like its accumulating red flags, already.
 
Presumably this is being asked in the context of putting the iframe HTML into a web site; but at the same time it's really just asking how to use Google Maps. Is this on-topic? stackoverflow.com/questions/22554575/…
Sorry, meant to post the question link: stackoverflow.com/questions/22554575/…
 
8:41 PM
@Dharman I'm not tripleee but I would say yes
The accepted answer on the language-agnostic question seems to work for multiple OSes including Linux, and it even covers a Linux-specific alternative that also works
 
9:19 PM
@KarlKnechtel ugh, that's...clear, it's just such a silly toy assignment. they're supposed to convert to a string, find the decimal, then slice to before it. The instructor just couldn't be bothered to come up with a less contrived example that doesn't rely on a long list of things you aren't allowed to use.
Alternately, it's a problem that's very hard to look up the answer to online!
because no one in their right mind would solve it this way
 
I mean, string formatting approaches make a lot more sense than manipulating the numeric value for typical cases (except rounding to integer), it's just that there are more elegant ways
but... if the problem is specifically to round to an integer, then why is OP talking about checking the tenths and hundredths places?
 
Trouble (for me) is why they say "rounding" if they mean "truncation". Or do they mean that?
 
also, that
 
errrr, yeah, good point about the tenths and hundreds
unless...ohhhh, hmmm. I bet they mean checking all the decimal places in a loop
or at least, they should mean that. I bet it really is rounding to the nearest int
okay, that's actually not a horrible toy problem.
 
coming up with tricks like this isn't teaching problem solving, it's much more like guessing the teacher's password
students should be practicing analysis of larger problems, figuring out what the steps are
er... hmm.
 
9:25 PM
yeah but that can just be copy pasted from SO
 
with a proper specification, there really is only one direction to head with that tool set.
 
gotta keep up the value of these pieces of paper we reference in our resumes
 
@SotiriosDelimanolis that's so unclear that I legitimately can't fathom how it got an accepted answer
 
@RyanM sounds like it might not be that clear after all? :-P
 
@TylerH yeah, it's not
yeah, this is actually kind of unpleasant to write, I tried it for science and it's not straightforward due to carrying
unless you specify that there's only a single integer digit or something
 
9:46 PM
Even then, you need to do some really silly tricks to avoid using any other functions:
See here for my solution.
The most heinous of the silly tricks being print("123456789"["0123456789".find(s[0])])
Because int(...) is explicitly banned and I'm pretty sure they didn't want you to use chr(ord(...) + 1) instead.
 
Well, I'm still figuring out how they can be expected to do it without if as they claim
 
10:13 PM
 
10:34 PM
Can someone remind me - if there are a bunch of condescending comments in quick succession on the same answer, should I flag all of them as unfriendly?
Or will moderators usually look at the entire thread anyway?
 
10:44 PM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine I seem to recall the suggestion that if there are more than N of them, flag just one where the trouble starts, using a custom flag, and then suggest that they are all NLN
But perhaps a mod in this room can say what they prefer :=)
 
🚽
 
11:08 PM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine It's user choice. If you flag one be sure to mention which of the others need deletion, to assist the moderators with pushing the right buttons
 
11:27 PM
 
@TylerH pretty sure they were looking for more-or-less
s = str(x)
print(s[:s.find('.')])
@halfer custom comment flags can be a little risky, though, if they're on a comment that's likely to attract other flags
I'd go with either flag all the comments or custom-flag the post
 
11:44 PM
@RyanM Fair enough, thanks - I'll do that in future 👍
 
(of course if it's just, like, "all the comments from here down are NLN because they've been added to the post" or something on an inactive post, then custom comment flags are probably fine since no one else is likely to see the post and do the same thing)
(although I forget if custom flags 1-flag delete a comment)
 

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