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00:22
@mickmackusa I do not understand this sentiment. I could maybe understand this sentiment if you were getting pushback on closing duplicates, but why does the refusal to delete them immediately after posting cause you to want to start answering them instead? This does not make any sense whatsoever to me.
@CodyGray I missed the part in your earlier dialogue where you were specifically against the rushed deletion. I am not arguing for rushed deletion.
The monologue got kinda broken up, but here it is in parts: 1; 2; 3; 4.
Ah, right, understood then.
I thought we were talking purely about "nth dupe" being an unsatisfactory justification for deleting pages.
No. No, definitely not. I mean, I'd prefer something a little more substantial in borderline cases where the question you're requesting to delete doesn't look like total crap, but even that's not a rule.
I'm not going to seek the rushed deletion of this answered dupe (which is covered well by two canonicals), but I will ask for it to be deleted in a few days since the Roomba can't do it on its own.
00:38
Completely unrelated to anything, but @CodyGray, I'd like you to know that I can no longer look at my disembodied glasses without thinking of your avatar now.
and the glasses don't even look similar :P
@starball I have no recollection why I made this, but, you're welcome. i.sstatic.net/oE8Ya.png
@IanCampbell is that a-... harmonica?
I believe it is an ultrasound probe?
aww look how big of a heart cody has!
...enlarged hearts are problematic.
00:49
^is that on-topic? seems to just be about statistics? (I am not a statistician)
I think there might be a programming question there, but they haven't managed to ask it. Like, I did my regression using this code. Why is it giving me the wrong result?
ah ok. commented.
Wow, they really listened to you.
01:08
@IanCampbell I must have ✨ magical powers ✨ :D
@IanCampbell Or a Logitech ScanMan!
Oooh, yes, or that!
@CodyGray you're telling me they're not the same thing?
Logitech doesn't make ultrasonic probes.
@IanCampbell oh. sadly, the image-of-a-table is still an image-of-a-table.
01:11
@starball You could get the table back from that prior revision if you were really motivated. Sorry for the multiple pings.
huh. didn't even notice there was an attempt at a "textual" table in the earlier revisions.
@CodyGray There was once a time when Stack Overflow didn't make keyboards. Anything is possible.
personally not motivated enough to do that for them :P
01:24
@IanCampbell I looked up why you made it. It was because someone said I was their "echo", and that inevitably led to "echo-Cody-o-gram" puns, so you made a new avatar to replace my then-current chicken with its head covered by part of its shell, which was a homage to the SE design team that had just completed a redesign of the profile pages.
Oh yes, echo-Cody-o-gram... classic.
 
1 hour later…
WooCommerce questions are generally on-topic, is not? Just that I'm getting a whole load of such questions in the CV queue with 1 or 2 "Not about programming" close votes, already.
... is there a "Clean-up spree" going on, maybe?
Here is a typical example. I'm (mostly) skipping them, because I'm no WooCommerce SME, but that one (and most others I've seen) look like they're programmig-related.
02:56
"screenshot" of the day #6: post, image
@AdrianMole the burnination
03:24
@starball Thanks - That makes sense. Still not sure that all those Qs are off-topic, though. I'll continue to "Skip", for now.
03:40
Can this still be migrated to Meta? It had only 2/3 migration votes but, presumably, it can be reopened and then migrated, if people think it's appropriate.
@AdrianMole It can. Is that useful on meta?
Migration is permanently broken isn't it? Is it working again? Maybe I missed the memo.
Uhhh last migration away from Stack Overflow was 3 hours ago. Are you referring to something recent?
Okay, then.
Migration from main sites to their metas isn't a problem, from what I can tell.
@HenryEcker Dunno. Which is why I asked. :)
03:50
Maybe I was thinking of this
@AdrianMole Meh, I migrated it an closed it on meta meta.stackoverflow.com/q/422628
@HenryEcker Is it even worth existing? It might as well be deleted to create less work for the roomba. The migration notice also says "This question was migrated from Stack Overflow because it can be answered on Meta Stack Overflow", so migrating then closing it doesn't make much sense.
It could be answered on Meta. "You can't do this" would be an answer. And some version of that question is certainly on-topic for MSO and certainly off-topic on SO. It's even possible there's a duplicate which outlines image upload restrictions (I didn't look). So migration is fine. I closed it because I'm not clear if they're talking about image uploads or file uploads which would have different answers.
Wrt. making more work for roomba, I'm not too concerned about overworking an automated process.
@HenryEcker could you please comment on the question to solicit that specific clarification?
also, just for my own learning, what's the difference between file upload and image upload? I know of image upload, but not of file upload.
@starball Correct. There is no file upload feature on Stack Overflow. The answer to the question would be "You cannot upload arbitrary files to Stack Overflow." The answer to "my image is too big to upload to imgur" would be something like "you can resize your image so that it can be uploaded... here's a way to do that... Your image needs to be smaller than X size to be able to be uploaded"
04:07
@HenryEcker oh. I think it's safe to assume the question is about images, since I'm pretty sure the file upload element is set to only take files with image-like extensions, so the asker wouldn't have even got to the error message they got if they couldn't select a non-image file, right?
If you agree, would the correct course of action be to just edit the question to say "image file" instead of "file and then reopen"?
@starball Yeah. I suppose that's reasonable. I've made the edit and reopened.
There have been users in the past who want to be able to upload files (excel spreadsheets come to mind as a specific example) directly to Stack Overflow. There have been similar requests to that nature previously which is why I considered both cases when I read the initial revision. Though I do agree that uploading a large image is most likely correct.
ok uh... sorry for the thrashy migration, but would this image size limit question fit on meta.stackexchange.com? And if so, wouldn't if fit better there than on MSO?
 
1 hour later…
05:36
@starball perhaps in theory, but that's basically a lost cause; we effectively have two metas, with general network-wide topics sprinkled across both without much thought
05:53
@tripleee yeah I've kind of been slowly noticing/realizing that
Is this still "generic nonsense" (as the commentator says) even when code fences are added? It looks like (semi-) valid python, then, at least. It certainly looked bad before I made the edit.
06:06
@AdrianMole I don't agree with the comment; that looks like a better solution than the other two answers, and rhymes with what Barmar suggested in a comment on the question
@tripleee Look at the answer without the code fences, though. The # comment delimiter in python turns those lines into H1 format (big, bold).
from before your edit? sure, but that doesn't really change the fact that the code works
I left a comment with some further context
Indeed. I was thinking of replying to that comment by suggesting to always try viewing with code fences added. Even if you don't have full edit privileges, the preview in the editor will at least let you see the formatted code.
... but that comment is from a 26k user.
06:34
@HenryEcker cc @AdrianMole It is my strong opinion that any question asked on SO that is actually a Meta question should be migrated to Meta, even if one feels that it would not be a valuable contribution to Meta. It's important to send a clear message to users that this content belongs on Meta, not on the main site, even if we only migrate it to Meta to close it as a dupe of an existing Meta question.
@CodyGray You acknowledge that this stance is different from the general guidance used for all other types of migrations?
Absolutely. Meta is different. Everybody knows that.
In all honesty, I think migration should only exist for main -> Meta. If there is any other migration between sites allowed at all, it should be mod-only.
2
@starball Just FYI, questions/discussions/proposals for network-wide features can be posted on MSO, just as they could be posted on MSE. This decision is purely at the asker's discretion. Staff is not necessarily any more likely to see it because it's on MSE vs. being on MSO. Posts to which mods have added the [status-review] tag on MSO get added to the same CM backlog as posts on MSE with that tag.
There is almost never a reason to migrate a question from MSO to MSE. The decision of where to ask is mostly about what audience you want and/or what set of mods you want.
@CodyGray huh interesting!
@CodyGray So, are your feelings strong enough to suggest a mod flag on questions (like the one discussed above) that were closed but "not quite" migrated (2/3 votes, in that case). Or is it better just to raise it in here?
... migrate-to-meta-pls requests?
This was the policy announced when The Great Meta Schism happened, and it's always been the policy in-place up to today. Originally, Meta Stack Overflow was both SO's child Meta site and also the global, network-wide Meta site. At some point (I believe it was 2014?), what was MSO was renamed to MSE, declared the network-wide Meta site, and a subset of the SO-specific questions that it had were migrated to SO's new child Meta, MSO.
@AdrianMole You mean it ended up just being closed, not migrated? Yeah... I don't know. I'd personally like to see that migrated and therefore think a mod flag is reasonable, but I don't know what the other mods would want. I imagine there's a risk of such a flag getting declined on the basis of "nothing to do here".
06:44
I guess a, "this flag is for Cody only to handle", in the flag text would be frowned-upon. :)
@AdrianMole Given the size of the custom flag queue these days, you might get away with it. :-)
heh
But, other than asking for 2 (extra) reopen votes and then for 2 (extra) close/migrate votes, only mods can effectively handle situations like that.
Flagging a closed question for migration may create too much unnecessary work for several people when the question is of no lasting value to MSO. Maybe just post a comment with a MSO dupe target and then let Roomba do its job?
What if there isn't an MSO dupe?
Probably, yes. I doubt it's really worth it.
If you think the question adds significant value, then you can flag it for mod attention, or re-post it yourself.
06:48
Yeah, I like that: Stealing someone else's Meta-rep. ;-P
You can have mine.
07:30
"screenshots" of the day #7-8: post, image#1, image#2
@starball I heard somewhere that "it's dangerous to go alone!" Did you forget to take your ⚑?
@CodyGray I usually get too excited and post to socvr before close-voting :P
I'll start handling the posts before sharing them. thanks for the close-vote!
Can someone with HTML/Iframe knowledge check this answer OP themselves says it's no answer, but my layman's understanding says it might be one
/ before close-voting / triaging what I should vote-to-close for. I look first for images (and so notice them first) but don't assume that that's the only thing wrong with them.
Finding a post that includes code only as an image (not as text) is a sufficient reason to vote-to-close that question, even if there is nothing else wrong with it.
07:37
Has sideshowbarker become the 'official' cGPT-handling mod? Or is it just a time-zone thing that they've handled all (I think) my recent flags on such posts?
... at least, all the posts ended up being deleted by them.
IIRC, sideshowbarker is based in Japan, and I'm currently in the (not quite so) Far East.
sideshowbarker and blackgreen have probably handled a large majority of the ChatGPT flags (based on what I've seen), becoming exceptionally well-trained human pattern matchers in the process. Martijn has also done a fair amount of work there.
Other mods do handle them, too, of course. We don't have that strict of a division of labor.
@Adriaan Looks like a "me too" answer. They are just saying it works if you force it to open in a new tab with CTRL + click.
08:14
@snakecharmerb wonderful title. Contester for the Title of the Day.
08:36
@Konrad [tag:cv-pls][tag:react]
09:35
@tripleee OP updated; RO please trash @CodyGray
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (by request, because edited by OP)
09:46
@tripleee The OP disagrees with you hammering their question and edited the post
Please don't trash Cody. He's been helpful.
10:10
@Adriaan hmmm, different question, but now not about programming at all
I left a comment
11:32
Is it "by design" or a bug that I get to review the same answer in both FA and LA?
@AdrianMole I think there is no real design around this. It's one of those "the system works that way, because that's how the system works"
@AdrianMole Even if it's by design, it's still a bug...
@sideshowbarker I don't follow why this answer was deleted. I also see the answerer is banned. Was this a GPTChat violation or something?
@mickmackusa Yes, the answer you linked was generated by ChatGPT.
11:42
@Dharman this accepted answer is whack, right? $options is an array, then converted to a string, then iterated. I find the question Unclear if not a duplicate.
@mickmackusa Yeah, I have no idea what the question is asking. The answer is incorrect and it looks like Justinas didn't test it.
I think they store key-value pairs in the DB
11:56
@mickmackusa What @CodyGray said — and that user posted multiple other ChatGPT-generated answers in short succession around the same time
@sideshowbarker on my screen you seem to be incognito in chat: i.sstatic.net/0cSKA.png :D
@VLAZ Is that a userscript doing something with blue-bloods diamond-folk?
@VLAZ Yeah someone else mentioned that to me before but I don’t know why I show up that way. I guess there’s some setting in my chat preferences I should check?
Lol, your name gets pushed down on the next line because of the diamond
May be screen size and length of name?
12:04
@VLAZ aha
at least I find no setting for in my chat prefs that would cause it
seems like the chat UI also provides no way to control the width of the names column
I guess you could request to step down as a mod so your name shows up. Or post a bug for chat and wait for it to be addressed.
@VLAZ I get the feeling there’s no active development being doing on the chat app — so I guess my only choice is to step down
No, you can change your name, e. g. to "VLAZ"
@JeanneDark It's the best name. Have not had problems with it.
Well, except when I initially spelled it all lowercase "vlaz" and people kept replying to @viaz
12:10
Do you use Firefox? I don't repro in Chrome, and I seem to recall a prior discussion (involving Makyen and... Scratte? or someone else?) along these lines, where they could only repro this in Firefox.
@CodyGray Yes, FF
@CodyGray That's what I think, too. Say my chosen action in FA was to downvote, so I did. If nothing has changed by the time I see it in LA, then I would want to downvote (again) ... but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be allowed to do that.
Also the scaling is set to 125%
> promise to get fans!
Not even air conditioning?
@VLAZ For shame.
@CodyGray No, it's because otherwise text is too hard to see.
12:17
Why not increase the resolution and/or DPI of your entire screen, rather than zooming your browser?
That's the scaling of the screen itself
Oh, I see. I thought you were talking about browser zoom. Never mind, then. That shouldn't have any effect on it.
13:36
Okay im confused as to what to do about this. stackoverflow.com/a/75083588/1841839 How or why does GPT detector say this question is generated. How does it know? What does it look for.
13:47
never mind they deleted it after I pointed out the ban.
> I don't have enough reputation to comment so I had to do it this way.
@CodyGray That's the primary reason I migrated it. My initial quality check for migration did fail on that post, which is what sparked the initial chat message, but ultimately decided that it was fine to migrate "locally" for the reasons you mentioned and the reasons I mentioned in my other reply about migrating that specific post.
14:44
Do any of the answers here, except for the accepted one, contain any value?
I wonder how many answers there are on SO that are essentially, "I had this problem too. For me, I restarted <thing here> and it worked!"
@IanCampbell Many. Anecdotally I've landed on these when I've searched for a solution of a problem. And some they don't really solve anything. They claim restarting a random thing unrelated to the problem fixed it. And yes, I'm well aware of various shenanigans that can happen with processes, I'm certain that's not the case for at least some of these answers.
Others are somewhat plausible. Like restarting an IDE or browser, for example.
15:07
@VLAZ Even if it's plausibly correct I still down and delete vote these answers that provide no explanation for why the restart worked. At best they should be comments. If you can say "a restart clears out the cache files in xxx directory, which the documentation says will affect yyy" that's a real answer.
@miken32 I didn't mean to imply they were useful. Just "not completely wrong at first glance".
according to meta Cody you should not flag them as NAA but nothing says that a 20K can't delete'em ;)
Is a meta Cody, somebody who embodies all Codys everywhere?
the otherway around
Is the plural Codys or Codies?
15:12
in today's world they may choose... so check profile ;)
@PetterFriberg That's correct. You need at least some amount of knowledge in the subject matter to distinguish between one of these that is a wild-ass guess, versus one that actually might be the solution to the problem. So rolling the dice for a random mod to consider deleting them doesn't make sense, but having 20k+ users delete them is reasonable.
I posit that because "glass" -> "glasses" it's "Cody" -> "Codyes"
With names, you don't usually change the ending when pluralizing.
@VLAZ I posit that this is bunk.
"Cod, yes!" is what a fisherman might shout.
So, what is the term for a group of Cody individuals? "A snark of Cody"?
15:15
You know that all those special collective-noun names are also bunk, right?
A bunk of Cody
You don't think the correct term for a group of pandas is an embarrassment?
I'll tell you what though, a group of questions on SO is an embarassment.
2
Burn
I'll see myself out.
@VLAZ I can repro this (also a Firefox user) but enabling the URRS script seems to resolve it for me
15:46
@VLAZ Is Cody a fan of the Greek classics? We could opt for Codyseus
16:46
@miken32 SSIS packages are definitely programming related. I am binning this as invalid.
@TylerH sure thing, looked like a database management question to me
There's definitely overlap and it would also be on-topic on DBA.SE I think, but I don't think it's off-topic here.
17:17
"how do I do this task? I haven't tried anything" Really?
17:36
@TylerH I don't think the "What did you try and what were you expecting?" in the Ask wizard has the desired effect.
A regex for "I didn't try anything" or similar to block posting would fix that a bit
Then you'll just get "I tried some things but they did not work"
@NathanOliver That's better than "I didn't try anything". For OP's sake, anyway
I'm more likely to downvote and walk away if someone says "I didn't try anything"; if I see "I tried some things but they didn't work" I'm more likely to leave a comment asking what they tried
or, just fix the ask question wizard to not ask stupid questions that require an answer
Well, framed that way I think it's not possible
There are some things that do require an answer, sometimes
17:47
the current iteration has two text sections, both of which are required, that are effectively asking for the same content. The things they are asking for should be one cohesive part of the question, not two separate entities that get shoved together on the next page.
I agree the current capabilities of the wizard are pretty lacking
18:26
@DalijaPrasnikar The link isn't correct for that unless you want us to close this chat room.
M--
M--
19:41
@Dharman do you have any plans to add a user interface to your bot? something that can be accessed like @Dharmanbot feedback Link_to_post tp/fp
@blackgreen It's not Codo!?
19:59
that's not a typo, but it's certainly unlikely to be useful to future visitors regardless of how it's solved. Is that what that close reason is for?
@M-- No, why?
M--
M--
no reason in particular, I just thought that'd be a nice addition
If you leave feedback I will read it
M--
M--
lol, haven't seen any FPs so far, here's my feedback :D
@DharmanBot feedback Good Job! (y)
@KevinB @gre_gor Luckily, it is a duplicate
20:50
@CodyGray That's ... not entirely accurate (regards to visibility to staff). In general, staff is not that likely to see anything that doesn't have . Some Staff may see it, but, as you know, that tag now exists to specifically bring it to their attention. In the past (maybe before the status-review tag existed?), I have been told by some staff that they really only look on MSE for some types of SE-wide issues. That specific time was in regards to an SE API issue, which I reported on MSO ('SE API is randomly responding with "site is required" errors and now CORS errors'), but which they didn't see until it was reported on MSE ("API has been failing with CORS errors since 11/13").
@CodyGray OTOH, I'd agree with the rest of what you've said here. At least for me, which site to use would also notably depend on which site I'd expected it would be easier to get the added to the question.
21:22
@TylerH binning this as it was linking to this chat room
21:45
Is this an answer?
questionable
@IanCampbell looks to be a low-quality answer
it's also a repeat of the highly upvoted one
like several other existing answers
I guess I don't even know what I'd do about it if it were more clearly NAA. Does anyone even look at the "disputed low-quality review (auto)" flags?
it seems iffy to me, because, as someone who has worked with flutter, that answer effectively has all the info i need to solve the problem, because that link goes to the module with all of the information
Is an answer supposed to re-explain how to use it?
22:01
Say someone asks how to use python to do named entity recognition on some text. Does saying "use the flair package 0.11 <link>" an answer make?
don't know anything about python, :shrug:
but that smells of "Your answer is in another castle" NAA reasoning
it's a sign to the answer, not the answer
but is "the" answer use X?
@IanCampbell As long as <link> names the package then yes, it is an answer.
does "Use X" need to include step by step instructions to install X and use it to be an answer?
even if both are... pretty standard for the given language?
i'd not consider it NAA in this case
but it should probably still be deleted
@KevinB IMHO, no. To be an answer it just needs to give you a solution. To be a good answer it should have a detailed solution. Good news is we have delete votes to deal with poor/low quality answers
Your comment about "pretty standard" brings up a good point.
22:04
@StephenOstermiller Ouch...
Well, I can't delete a duplicate barely answer with +3 score, so I either have to custom flag or forget it. I guess I'll go with forget it.
there's always downvote, and maybe one day it'll get deleted by a passing mod when enough dupe answers cross it
(such as the one from today)
@sideshowbarker cc @VLAZ @JeanneDark There's nothing you can do about it other than pick a different, shorter username, which would just have a different viewport/window/screen width at which the same problem would occur. The person viewing the chat page could adjust their viewport/window width, which will change which moderator usernames are affected. It's inherent in the design which SE chose to use when redoing how moderator diamonds were displayed in chat a couple? of years ago now. The designers were explicitly told that the problem exists and a solution was provided during the time they were working on it. They chose to continue to go with the flawed version which they had implemented.
@IanCampbell I'd say it's an answer. It does basically contain all the information needed to answer the question. Though it could certainly be a better answer. Doesn't seem to be not an answer. OTOH, it does appear to be at minimum a late retread of the several other answers that mention using flutter_launcher_icons
OK, sounds like the consensus is pretty clear that it's not NAA, thanks.
22:11
@IanCampbell I'm also not sure if this was a serious question or not. Yes those flags are looked at and handled.
It was a serious question. I though someone mentioned off hand once that some of those autoflags were ignored. Thanks.
They show up in the dashboard so someone handles them. Most of the time (so far) I've just ended up redeleting the post, but occasionally it's been improved before being undeleted.
Ah, I totally forgot that the author undeleting the answer goes in there too. Make sense that you'd pay attention to those.
 
1 hour later…
23:32
If anyone has close votes (I don't), I've found it pretty effective to find recommendation questions just by searching "any library". There are a lot of true positives in the search results.
@starball nice, I like these kinds of suggestions
@KarlKnechtel I'm waiting impatiently for the 0:00 UTC mark to get my new close votes. I'm going to try other words like "any plugin" and "any tool" too.
If you want the good stuff, try using Google's advanced operators. intitle:"is there" intitle:"library" site:stackoverflow.com
oh yeah, stack overflow actually generates <title> elements for questions
But it can be frustrating doing searches like that. A vanishingly small number of my close votes ever go anywhere. They generally just age away
23:46
@mickmackusa ...sorry muscle memory on that false php tag

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