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00:33
"screenshot" of the day: post, image
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04:19
(lots of false positives, but another 18000 or so to consider: stackoverflow.com/…)
05:12
@KarlKnechtel Did that have recent activity?
no sorry, I just have been spidering around trying to clean things up and got lost
but is there really not a process for getting rid of stale stuff?
05:28
@KarlKnechtel in theory, voting to close should be enough to get it reviewed by others and closed if it's close-worthy
05:51
@tripleee fair enough
I have occasionally posted in other rooms when a message was too old to fit in here; the Python room does not seem to have any age policy for Python questions, for example
and I guess as long as the volume is low, they would be fine in the Broomba room too; the three of us who are there are just enough to handle the load for the time being
Is it International Julia Week or something? Seems like well over half the review audits I'm getting (in the past few days) are Julia posts.
BTW is there any way to get a link to the review queue for a message you voted to close or etc so that you can post a ?
@tripleee Just after you've done your review, hit the "back" button on your browser. That should give you the review page link in the URL bar.
Or you can get back to the review from your profile page "Reviews" tab.
I don't mean "back", I mean if I flagged something which should have put it in one of the review queues
06:04
Ah, I see. Other than searching the queue with as many filters as possible, then I think: "No."
Also, that search will fail, anyway, in most cases. You can't, for example, review a post in LQA that you flagged yourself; nor will it appear in such a search.
I suppose you could ask someone else (in here?) to look for it, on your behalf. Mods can do that quite quickly, I believe, if you feel like bothering one.
Or, if one of the reviewers in the LQA queue chose to leave a comment, then the "From review" link in that comment will take you to the review.
06:24
"screenshot" #2 of the day: post, image
@starball There is even other proper screenshots in the post.
@AdrianMole Mods can see reviews in the post timeline, once the review task is created, which can take several minutes after the post qualifies for being reviewed. Review entries in the timeline are not shown to non-moderators until the review is complete, presumably in order to prevent abuse. Depending on the review type, the abuse could be either using the review to, effectively increase permissions (e.g. deletion of answers), or to try to kick the post our of review in order to make it less likely the review changes the post's state (e.g. close and reopen).
07:16
@Makyen That's (essentially) what I thought. But would asking, in here, for someone else to find that review task (that I, or whoever, had flagged) also count as "abuse"? I can't think of any obvious reasons why someone would want that info, but I also don't think that @triplee was planning abusive behaviour.
(Other than, perhaps, dropping letters from a user's name.)
07:39
Is this our first ChatGPT-generated spam? The link is certainly spam and the HuggingFace detector gives it a 99.4% fake score.
@AdrianMole no.. I had seen a couple before
Hmm. I would have been surprised if it were the first, actually.
 
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09:19
Why is it so hard to add an example to your question ....
 
1 hour later…
@tripleee hehe
11:00
> Remove the downvote & I'll edit the answer.
Suddenly the answer took on a reddish hue just as I was about to flag.
11:23
Does anyone have any idea for a better title for this? A little help understanding object oriented PHP
@Dharman Maybe something with "chained calls" or "chained access"? Although that would make the question seem at odds with itself as the title explains what the body of the question asks for. However, it's still more searchable.
The question asked what it's called, so I cannot have it in the title
PLZ Halp What This PHP COdez means?
help understanding a recurring structure popping up in my database code :D
yeah.... no
11:31
@Dharman Well, that's the issue. How is somebody going to find it or recognise it without adding a useful name?
What would you Google for if you didn't know its name?
calling method on another method?
Maybe "multiple method calls" or some variation thereof? Then I'd try to narrow down towards "chained". But not immediately, maybe with a step or two in between
The trouble is that I know the end point. It's hard for me to come up with how to get there.
Can a RO please trash this request? OP edited (cc @Dharman)
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, per request
11:57
@Dharman OK, how about something along the lines of "What do these multiple/concatenated method calls mean?"
Sounds good
Yes, sounds way better than what I had in mind.
I've seen a similar(ish) sort of Q in C++ but I can't find it, now. Probably because it didn't have a very good title. ;)
... putting operators like -> in titles tends to be futile, because search engines don't really like them.
@AdrianMole Yet strangely, human eyes do tend to recognise them
Do PHP folks call that an "arrow operator"?
12:04
I would call it lambda expression
Hmm. That's a very different beast in C/Java/stuffs. Also in PHP
only use I know for your arrow operator :)
stackoverflow.com/questions/3037526/… calls it "object operator" ... looks like an attribute / method accessor to me
In C++ it's one of the two "member access operators" but it may have nicknames.
"arrow stuffz"
12:10
TBH, the only PHP coding I know is this warning: "Warning: You are wide open to SQL Injections and should use parameterized prepared statements instead of manually building your queries. They are provided by PDO or by MySQLi. "
funny but sad
I blame YouTube
... or lazy instructors
12:26
@HovercraftFullOfEels Well, there is a big overlap between YouTube and lazy instructors...
12:37
Is there any good php5 OOP tutorial site? I think this information may be outdated a little bit
First day back at work and security through obscurity is already making me go mad
13:02
Obscurity-through-security is far more useful.
@AdrianMole Obscurity-through-dumb-design-decisions is the best security. There are ten-ish servers at work for different things. One is production. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out which is which because the dropdown for the remote login just lists the names of machines (essentially, boils down to arbitrary numbers) rather than letting you name them. Thanks, Microsoft.
Production is now super secure. I cannot tell you which machine you need to connect to, even if you point a gun to my head.
The other machines are also very secure. And if I ever need, say, logs or something from them, the dropdown protects the machines from my investigation.
@Dharman Doesn't look too useful. Even the newest answer (and link), from 2017, links to w3schools about PHP 7.
13:19
Is this an answer? Perhaps the part about the upgrade, or is it "me too"?
@JeanneDark NAA
thanks
nice find
@JeanneDark nah, it doesn't read like an answer
13:37
is this off-topic? and/or should it be updated to include the tag? stackoverflow.com/questions/75056775/…
13:57
tangentially, what should be done if someone posts code with a copyright notice? is that something we should flag for mod attention?
@tripleee don't they violate their own notice by republishing it here, given SO forces CC-by-SA?
the one I'm looking at is probably not the author of the code
Well, then it's the OP's problem for violating it, and up to the original owner of the code to complain to SE with a DCMR take down notice, IIRC
@tripleee yeah, flag for a mod. pretty sure we don't allow copyrighted code that doesn't comply with CC-by-SA
thanks
14:10
Do you often encounter questions that should obviously be closed but you can't because SOCVR doesn't accept old questions and the review queue is inefficient in closing them?
@Dharman through Natty I often encounter such posts, although "NATO" is a valid reason
@Dharman Often enough to be constantly annoyed at this... Although, I cannot quantify this with any numbers.
@Dharman all the time, when I look for duplicate targets
Blackgreen, you can close them now yourself. :)
Also, by obvious I mean it doesn't require SME knowledge
Depends how you define, "often". But, if they're old and their entry in the CV queue expires, then I guess it's not really critical to close them.
Although the CV queue size seems to be creeping up again. 3k just now and only 221 reviews today, so far.
14:19
I think some might be expiring in the queue
That's surely nothing new.
... or are you thinking about a new room: SOOCVR? (Where the extra "O" is for "Old".)
I was thinking if there's any benefit in opening a new room where low priority requests could be made for old questions. I could from time to time go through them and close.
Don't the "mod tools" (presumably, mods can see them) serve to do that?
which one?
Looking ... don't use them very much ...
14:23
Jeanne is finding delete worthy questions often. I just wonder if there's a lot that haven't been closed yet.
Of course, it wouldn't be wise to pollute the mod flag queue, which is why I am thinking if a chat room is suitable
Not sure I'd (fully) classify Jeanne as a "mod tool".
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@Dharman Why not take it up on a room meeting?, change the rulezz some, Revolution!! :)
@Dharman At least it isn't about PHP6 like that book I had in college :-)
I think this room is getting enough requests as it is and it should focus on recently active ones.
14:25
Meh. Such a room would (I think) have to be somehow limited access to those who can be trusted not to abuse it.
I mean if we are speaking about a few extra questions, that users in this would like us to review (new fancy tag request), I would prefeer here instead of keeping another room open...
After all, such 'interference' with the way the system-established CV queue works is something that may be frowned-upon by certain staff members and other mods.
It is trivial to find armloads of old questions that should be closed. We focus on the new ones here because there are just too many old ones and we have to prioritize what is important.
For sure 80% of question should be closed on SO, but some old question could have more importance than other... hence they could be allowed.
IMHO if it's ineligible for closure here it generally means that it's not causing particular harm, so it's also unnecessary to prioritize it
in the sense that it's not attracting flaggable answers
14:29
Yeah - if it's getting lots f rubbish answers, then it will be eligible in here.
even one is enough — new activity — cv-pls
@Dharman I encounter this probably once per day on average
sometimes multiple questions per day, and sometimes a few days between seeing such a question
@AdrianMole I don't have faith in the CV queue. I often watch for new questions and cast the first or second close vote on a lot. A pretty large portion of my CVs end up expiring. I do not believe the CV queue is capable of handling the volume of things to close. I'd love to see some stats on how many items are actioned vs how many just age out but I don't know where to find these of if they exist.
@blackgreen sure but it depends mostly how you operate on SO, maybe you are curating a low traffic tag or some other activity that makes you want to clean up a situation, in general I would be pro for helping you out reviewing some.
I don't look that often but I do sometimes see posts in the CV queue that have been through it more than once, with previous visits being "invalidated" for no apparent reason. Presumably, that means they timed-out.
14:33
Also, remember that the time to age out an item from the CV queue is 3-4 days (or was it 4-5?). It's not too hard for items to age out.
@Dharman clear duplicates with a notice of the possible duplicate don't require SME knowledge; often, I find I was the one to nominate the duplicate a few years ago
I have a few sitting in the broomba room
@VLAZ 14 days with <100 views
as of late I have tried to spend my remaining votes in the evening in the CV queue, if I have any left
That actually reminds me of a different question I was wondering: are there any site activities that are too cumbersome for normal users but could use some focus from site mods. (aside from flag queue which is getting more manageable now)
14:36
@blackgreen Are you sure? I think that's just for the vote. I'm talking about the review item itself.
Close votes expire slightly more rapidly than does Jeff Atwood.
For example, Zoe has been deleting buttload of useless comments over the past few months
Yes, checked the link. That's the vote.
@Dharman The tag burnation... but in general I dw most of them, most of them are more like an exercise then actual use.
I think the review item expires even in longer time, but this is an empirical observation. Based on the fact that when I was working the queues I happened to see review items with zero votes
14:39
@blackgreen Probably because close flags have longer lifetimes than close votes. That sort of dumb effect would really no longer surprise me.
@blackgreen Review items with zero close votes mean they came from a flag. But I can cast a CV, the question goes in the CV review queue, and if nobody else casts another vote for the next 4-ish days the question leaves the review queue, however, my vote on the question stays.
The tag is being burninated: Open Qs - Close Queue - MetaCW
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I honestly don't know what happens if somebody casts a CV after that point. I don't know if it re-enters the queue or not. I'd guess "no" but I might be wrong.
like the [shipping] why the heck are we speding time on that... only reason is if in general we get more activity to clean up SO.. otherwise it seems futile.
Well, as a {cough - not very} original suggestion: Why not increase the amount of close votes (and close reviews) in the daily quota? I mean, Yaakov did that for FQs - that's still on 80/day, even though FQ is now only half the size of CV.
14:43
@AdrianMole you'll have my full support :-)
I took that for granted.
Support ring for sensible suggestions confirmed.
@AdrianMole burnout was given as one of the main reason by shog back in the day. I also think they ran a test of doing so and only a very small percentage of reviewers used all 80. let me see if I can't find the post
@VLAZ I accept payment in beer, bounties, upvotes and bounties and upvote. Did I mention bounties, already?
What about bountiful upvotes on Beer.SE?
14:46
@NathanOliver Having done 80/day in FQ for a while, a while back, I can understand the "burn out" argument. But, needs will as needs must: What's good for the goose (FQ) is good for the gander (CV)?
@Dharman a solution could be too always accept duplicate request (no activity rule), since they are very useful for future users.
@NathanOliver ah yes, only one(!) person used all votes every day and less than a hundred or so managed to max out one day or more
hmm, I did find this where it was upped from 20 to 40 but that wasn't the post I was thinking of
@Adriaan Meanwhile the queue was at historically low volumes during the test
14:48
@PetterFriberg dupes are easier to pass to a single gold badge holder though, if one is available
but you are not allowed (you need to wait for an answer or similar)
Aha, here is the shog answer I was looking for: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/285486/4342498
Maybe it's time we push for more votes again
by now I have gold badge in my tag, so I close as I like, but I still remeber when I did not have it, I could not pass certain questions even if clear duplicate. (no activity) and it was a bit frustrating (since my objective was to clean my low traffic tag)
Slower vote aging would also help. Votes age way too fast.
@Adriaan Open dupe requests can also be found on SEDE. I've a query for dupe auto-dupe comments by user ID and have a few users who are very reliable with their close votes but don't have a gold tag badge yet. Every few months I check their oldest ones where the votes have expired.
A similar query can be done for a tag rather than user.
Maybe it already exists, as well.
14:56
@VLAZ there's also the option to filter by tag + dupe-type in the CV queue
@Adriaan Which won't find the items that have aged out of the queue.
@DalijaPrasnikar This particular close voter also ages too fast. Not sure the devs can do much about that, though. :)
@VLAZ go through them more often ;) But yes, that's true. Queen, over in SO Botics, might be of help there, given you can get a ping when a comment with a possible dupe appears. Especially since inbox notifications no longer disappear
@NathanOliver Shall we (i.e., you) create a chat-room to garner support for such a push?
14:59
@DalijaPrasnikar Agreed. I'm still on the fence about them aging at all, but certainly as implemented they age too quickly.
I've considered Queen but...seems like too big of a volume, as well.
But not sure. I might try it for, say, a month and see if it's too much to go through or not.
Arguably they should at least require an edit before beginning to age away
Doing 40/day in CV and (typically, of late) ~20/day in FQ, I generally use all 50 daily votes (sometimes with a few 'organic' ones). Even if I was interested in the Triage queue, I simply don't have the resources to do that one, as well.
@AdrianMole SOCVR folks are certainly an outlier in terms of vote utilization. Of course, we are also probably making up the lion's share of user moderation activity, at least in some areas.
There are a number of prolific reviewers who I've never seen in SOCVR.
15:04
Indeed, there are several high-profile (in terms of lifetime volume) reviewers who've never set foot here
It is the purpose of the CV queue to deal with questions that have attracted close votes/flags. If it's failing in that purpose, then something needs to be done about it. The only thing I can see to do (in the current scenario) is to increase the review/vote quota for some/all curators. But how that would/could be done is, perhaps, the issue at hand.
@TylerH I only ever use my hands to post messages in here; never used either of my feet. (Yet!)
Peoples toes are surprisingly dexterous
@AdrianMole however the issue that Petter pointed out earlier (if I understood it correctly) about low traffic tags is not only about close votes expiring, but expiring probably due to lack of SMEs who also do curation; assuming that many close votes need experts to determine that something is indeed unclear, unfocused, lacking MCVE etc
in this scenario a reviewer with 80 close votes would still skip a review in a low traffic tag where they don't feel confident enough to make the call
@blackgreen That may only be a minor issue; from my experience, many questions in the CV queue don't need much SME. Although, having said that, the CV queue is probably the one I use "Skip" in most often.
Things like "code as image" and gibberish don't need any SME. Some dupe votes need only a little (I can often go through, say, a C# or python proposed dupe and judge it quite accurately).
What I wouldn't want to see is reviewers somehow 'relaxing' their criteria in order to get more questions closed, and/or earning more "review stats". That may be a concern, also, for the staff.
Erm, wasn't the top bar supposed to be pinned? It scrolls down for me. Which is rather unhelpful.
And now it stopped scrolling...
15:21
@VLAZ It's supposed to be pinned. Try turning off your user scripts and see if it still happens?
The weird thing is that I did turn them off and I still reproduced it. Decided to head over to another question to get a proper video of this happening in action and...then I couldn't reproduce it. Even after re-enabling the userscripts. I'd blame cache.
@Adriaan two of them...
@PetterFriberg BTW, You are in so many rooms that, when clicking on your name, the "profile" pop-up displayed for you is so big the close button is not visible.
@StephenOstermiller I saw that this question has been reposted on Webmasters.SE, but the one here on SO has gotten an answer. Do you want maybe to delete the repost there, and then I migrate this one?
15:58
@StephenOstermiller This Q is ready for a merge
@blackgreen Bleh, I ran across the flag in the queue. Sorry
no worries :)
16:44
^ looks like no repro based on self-answer
@Machavity thank you!
@sta don't think the question qualifies for a typo, OP asked for a way to make an authenticated request, and got a solution for it. it might be a duplicate, though
17:25
I should note that this was asked earlier almost the exact same way and it was deleted
18:17
Both answers on the last smokey report were deleted within 5 seconds after they started getting flagged and down voted. Flag for possible sock accounts?
18:55
"screenshot" of the day: post, image
19:11
"screenshot" #2 of the day: post, image
20:28
Is there a place for discussing AI-generated answers? Was going to ask here if an answer seems fishy but thought there might be a room for it.
@miken32 yes
there you go
Thanks; I was worried that posting here might stray too far towards "targeting users"
20:51
Does this Q look MRE?
21:08
@Machavity Seems arguably OK now
Works for me
 
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22:12
"screenshot" of the day #3: post, image
> elephant.jpg
it even includes alt text!

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