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12:17 AM
I just found these two tags summary-tag and details-tag that are both about HTML elements. Should the tag names have a tag suffix? It might also be desireable to include a cross-reference in the tag wikis.
 
1:14 AM
@bad_coder Changing them to just and seems like a bad idea, as those are way to generic. I'm not saying they're good as-is, just that removing the "-tag" would be worse.
 
@bad_coder I feel like those are both pretty rubbish tags.
Both tags have questions in them which are around 10 years old, and between them they've got around 70 questions.
7 questions a year seems like a waste of time to have specific tags for
 
1:48 AM
@Joundill both tags are generally used to collapse stuff in HTML, since the collapse tag is being burninated how many of those Qs could be retagged to those 2 tags, and how many more are untagged. Generally HTML elements are of common use, it makes some sense to have dedicated tags to filter for them.
@Makyen I agree, I am somewhat surprised that HTML doesn't have element specific tags with an HTML sufix like datatypes in languages like Python and Java have...
 
2:27 AM
@bad_coder Well, if I was creating SO tags for specific HTML tags, my first swag at what I'd do would probably be be to have html-tag-<tagname>. In general, it looks like what's being used is , , .
But, blegh the 225 tags containing the text "html" appear to be quite a mishmash. For example, we've got , which is being used for what's really and . Lots of them have no word separators. Each would need to be investigated to see if there was a reason for that (e.g. some specific package/method which didn't use separators in some language).
 
3:08 AM
@Makyen I agree with this, food for thought. Maybe one of the problems is that I only get 1 page of results searching for html in the tags page... If that's a system limitation I don't see how the run-of-the-mill users can be expected to work around it.
A SEDE query maybe, but that's not something you're thinking of when you're doing fast research at work. (Even for the subset of users who know about tags, or SEDE.)
 
I used the SE API and pulled down all the tags which included the text "html". An SEDE query would probably be better.
 
tags page only gives 4X9=36, so 16% of the total. With that limitation these tag clusters won't ever get sorted out by the userbase.
back to code for me o/ thanks for the feedback Makyen 👍
 
 
2 hours later…
4:59 AM
@bad_coder I went ahead and renamed these to and . I'm not all that enthusiastic about having an SO tag for every HTML tag, but if we're going to have an SO tag for a particular HTML tag, then it should at least be clear what it is. A more thorough cleaning-up/harmonizing of the list of SO tags with "html" in them is really something that should go through MSO.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:49 AM
@Makyen good call! Personally I'm not much for posting on MSO, e.g. the python-typing tag has half-a-dozen daily SMEs answering on it, but half the posts are mistagged with the general typing tag, or type-hint. I've been thinking for over a year on MSO proposing a clean-up, but I think I'll slate that post a while longer...
 
@bad_coder Cleanups tend to end up being a pain in the rear. Just renaming a tag, on the other hand, is easy, as long as there's agreement.
 
Is this NAA?
 
@SunderamDubey I flagged it as such.
 
7:40 AM
By definition, this is NOT NAA, but do we really need an answer that is effectively a dupe vote plus a brief summary of the dupe target? I think not.
 
7:52 AM
Does this make sense?
 
 
1 hour later…
@JeanneDark looks vaguely like some sort of automatically generated gibberish; it was reported by Smoke Detector earlier, too
 
Thank you
 
metasmoke record, for the terminally curious
or actually reported to Smoke Detector and hence reported here too
 
9:50 AM
^^^ Above request: Post shows modified 6 months ago. But edit history or other activities are not visible. Not sure why. cv-pls dialog also warned me about it. May be wrong request but not sure why.
 
@AmitJoshi You edited this answer in May
 
@JeanneDark : Yesss... missed that.
 
10:27 AM
DDoS again? So early in the day? SO's been slow all morning for me
 
10:44 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
12:42 PM
@DavidW Regarding your comment there, you need at least 5 rep to be able to post on MSO (unless with the question about one of one's posts function). The correct action would probably be to vote to migrate the question to MSO.
 
1:18 PM
Morning
 
1:34 PM
Hey, I just discovered this question (stackoverflow.com/q/56915449) has been closed as a duplicate of this one (stackoverflow.com/q/19711695) 2 years ago. I don't believe it should have been, as the asker is looking for an answer in a different context to that which the target covers, but don't know where to ask. Can anyone here help or shed some light on why it was marked as a dupe? Thank you :-)
 
@Druckles It was closed by a gold badge holder. For why they did it - without reading their mind, my best guess is that they believe the two questions to be equivalent.
 
Ah, dupe-🔨
@VLAZ Thanks! How/where can I argue the case for reopening it?
 
you can leave a comment and ping them, their profile indicates they are active
 
You'd have to give me their name; I don't see who closed it.
 
1:45 PM
@Druckles Go to the timeline - you'd see the close voters there.
 
oh (-: Mark Rotteveel
 
@Druckles @MarkRotteveel would work
 
if they are unresponsive maybe come back here in a couple of days
 
Looking at the questions, to me they seem equivalent. Although, I've not used Jackson in ages. I might be missing a subtlety that differentiates them.
 
Ah yeah, I've just found it. Thank you all :-)
@VLAZ One assumes that you have the ObjectMapper. That doesn't work if you're in a Deserializer.
 
1:46 PM
in your comment, you will want to explain why you think the questions are different, not just express disagreement with their decision to hammer
 
@Druckles Sure, but the dupe target seems more general. So an approach without ObjectMapper can be an answer there, as well. Again, I've not used Jackson in ages, I might be off here.
 
@tripleee Hah, thanks ;-)
 
2:58 PM
 
3:28 PM
@Druckles In general, you should edit the question to make it clear what the differences are between the questions. While most people take that to mean they should argue that it's not specifically a duplicate (which can be done), it really means actually clarify the question so the differences between the two questions are clear when the question is read as a normal question. As you save your edit, you will be able to click a checkbox which is "Submit for review This edit resolves the original close reason and the question should be considered for reopening." Clicking that checkbox will push the question into the reopen review queue where it will be reviewed by at least three other users. Please see '"This question already has answers here" - but it does not. What can I do when I think a question is not a duplicate?' for a more detailed discussion of what to do in this circumstance.
 
@Druckles In addition to what Makyen said, moderators generally don't resolve those kinds of disputes
 
@Makyen They are not the author of the question, they answered it.
 
@JeanneDark That does limit the scope of changes they can/should make to the question, but doesn't change that they should edit the question to clarify it. If they think it's not a duplicate and someone else thinks it is a duplicate, then it's quite likely that the question isn't clear and should be edited. It's possible that someone just misread the question, but that also implies that the question wasn't written in a way which made the distinction clear.
 
They have enough rep to edit directly, but if you don't it's not always so easy
 
I don't think an edit is necessary
it's more a question of semantics. The answer to the newer question is in a comment of the dupe, none of the answers address it.
Presumably because this is a special case where you need an alternative method, whereas in the general case you always reach for the one not available in this case
(which is explained in the question itself)
 
4:07 PM
@JeanneDark Yes, but editing is the method for users with <3k to push a question into the reopen queue. While pinging a gold badge holder is something that's available in some cases, it's not possible here, because the gold badge holder didn't unilaterally close the question, edit it, or perform any other unilateral action, so a ping in comments just won't work. @Druckles, to be clear, that means your comment on the question was ineffective at contacting Mark Rotteveel (cc: @tripleee, @HovercraftFullOfEels)
Even if pinging a gold badge holder is possible on a particular question, editing to clarify the difference between the questions is still something that should be done.
 
Just wondering if it is a bug, but I am seeing audits in timelines of posts now, I thought that was for mods and 10k+
 
Would it be sensible/useful/feasible for the system to allow for "auto deletion" of posts when they get a certain (large-ish) number of NAA/VLQ flags? I mean, if (say) 10 users flag a post as NAA then it probably is NAA.
... could save a lot of moderators' and LQA reviewers' time.
 
4:23 PM
 
@WhatsThePoint Completed reviews are shown in the timeline to all users. That includes audits, IIRC. What's restricted to moderators are reviews which are currently in process.
 
@Makyen ah ok, I have literally never seen an audit in the timelines until today, must've managed to somehow avoid them all in 6 years
 
Yes - peons non-moderators can also see audits in the timeline. (Including other users' audits.)
 
@AdrianMole Yes, it would, although 10 NAA is quite high as a level. Usually those get deleted by moderators well prior to that. There's at least one proposal on MSO or MSE for changing how those are handled. What's seemed most reasonable to me is to have additional NAA flags could as a "recommend delete" review.
 
@Makyen But, of course (speaking to you with your RO hat on), we would then likely need to allow flag-pls requests, in here. :)
 
4:34 PM
@AdrianMole Yes, that would probably change our stance on flag-pls requests for NAA, as then additional NAA flags would do something reasonably constructive.
 
Ah, well, never mind. Anything that can be perceived as "reasonably constructive" is unlikely to get past the devs. ;(
 
4:50 PM
omg. worst possible name for a tool, where stack overflow tags are concerned:
like, let me invent a new programming language and call it Programming Language
 
@TylerH Like the PL in PL/SQL?
 
(joke, that stands for procedural language)
 
There is probably only one question that is actually about that language
 
5:52 PM
in The Ministry of Silly Hats, Sep 20 at 17:43, by Ryan M
I'd say 6 NAA flags from 2k+ users should auto-delete if we could spot-check the results.
 
sta
@GeneralGrievance OP forget to share their contact info
 
6:05 PM
@GeneralGrievance member for over a year before posting spam is strange
 
@WhatsThePoint sleeper accounts are a thing. They become active after months, if not years.
 
6:59 PM
Also, what is the use of the tag?
Seems like people are using it for tech support questions.
 
@GeneralGrievance to identify off-topic questions, duh.
More seriously, though - perhaps it's to ask questions about their API: github.com/Medium/medium-api-docs but a lot of the questions seem off-topic.
How to embed image into medium.com post? - definitely not about programming.
Just picked the example that was the closest to my mouse pointer...
 
just a quick scan, the only ones I see that are remotely on topic are the ones asking about the api, so it might be better to rename the tag medium.com api
 
Yeah, looks that way.
 
@WhatsThePoint And also update the tag wiki. Which I assume is plagiarised, as well as quite useless in describing how to use the tag.
 
I'd argue it's hard to say that it is plagiarised as there is basically nothing there
 
7:07 PM
Yeah, plagiarized: medium.com/@tamaratamez/…. Not word-for-word, but close enough, I think.
 
@GeneralGrievance Word-for-word: techstacks.io/stacks/medium
 
That looks like a scraper site though? Wait 1. Consulting archive...
Hm... no archive.
Ah, here we go. Something with a date stamp: sierrafoothillsreport.com/2014/08/22/…
 
So apparently, it's Wikipedia.
 
@GeneralGrievance tamara plagiarised it from jeff
 
7:33 PM
 
7:45 PM
@GeneralGrievance I edited the tag info. And the tag has been renamed.
 
8:04 PM
@VLAZ Yay, good job.
 
@KenWhite, @karel, @tripleee: a question that you've closed is being "discussed" on meta
.... and I need to disengage
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels You can't really make the quotes heavy enough
 
@VLAZ: wow. Just wow.
ah @Makyen is no fun. None at all
but other than that, deleting the Q was the right thing to do
 
8:19 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels You are a practicing physician and currently writing scripts in AutoIt... double dose of masochism :-)
 
@TylerH: I have to update that profile. I've given up on AutoIt for a while now.
 
Yeah, no fun, but just wow. I really don't think we need to be expending a lot of people's time on that.
 
i mean
people aren't forced to spend their time on it
 
@Makyen: no, and the OP is in no condition to discuss anything
 
Nope.
 
8:21 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels got tired of having to add tons of Wait(100) lines to your code?
 
@TylerH. I got tired of wading into non-OOP Basic language syntax
 
@VLAZ It's not opinion-based; there is an objective source that the existing answer links to
".u- prefixed class name for single purpose utility classes like .u-underline, .u-capitalize, etc."
It's not particularly useful as a question but it's technically on-topic, I would say.
 
@VLAZ: it kind of looks OK to me
on-topic that is
 
The question itself (sans the answer) is "Why did this website decide to use a given name for its classes". It's asking for design reasoning. Not too dissimilar to Is asking "why" on language specifications still considered as "primarily opinion-based" if it can have official answers?. And the answer, while objective, it's kind of useless. Because it says "it's just their naming scheme". No deep insights, no real lasting value for future visitors.
 
8:32 PM
@VLAZ No, it doesn't ask for why Medium.com decided to use it; it asks what it means
 
The website could have chosen to prefix classes with banana- because the developer was eating a banana at 4 AM after a long coding session.
@TylerH It means what Medium.com decided it to mean.
 
if it asked for why they decided that, then I agree it would POB. But it asks what it means/is used for, and there's an objective, authoritative source for that
Trust me, I am the first person to argue for closing things as POB when possible :-) This one is not POB.
 
OK, so it's merely garbage.
 
Unless you're trying to learn CSS or CSS methodologies from Medium's style guide (or emulate it for your own sites), largely yes it's not very useful, as I mentioned above
 
It doesn't teach anything, though. Just tells you tiny (literally) insignificant knowledge about some coding standards used at some place.
 
8:40 PM
It's as useful as any given debugging question--modestly useful to the asker, maybe to someone else who happens upon the same question/problem
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels The Meta post has been closed and locked. The poster was still ranting on about some crimes and criminals. I think it was good to just disengage. I'll try to keep an eye on it to see if it gets reopened.
 
@KenWhite The user is suspended for 7 days. Better set your alarm clock. </sarcasm>
 
@IanCampbell I'll set a reminder. A humorous read is always welcome - everyone needs a laugh now and then. :-)
 
Let's wrap up discussion here of that specific user now, please :-)
There have to be some questions out there in need of closing...
 
@TylerH What, on Stack Overflow?
 
8:50 PM
I'm just about out of close-votes, and so ranting is about all that is left for me to do
 
Hope the above is fine. No recent activity but seems high profile. It seems like a big broken window.
 
@VLAZ The post needs to have recent activity within the last 6 months
 
@NathanOliver In that case, can you please bin the request?
 
Thanks.
 
8:52 PM
Thankfully TylerH did the most important thing: remove the emoji. My eyes were burning.
 
at least it is another opportunity for a bunch of comment flags
 
Yes, I see that we had the same idea. Interesting that we managed to nuke some of them but not all of them. I wonder if the auto-removal criteria are more complicated than I though.
 
it's somewhat complex, yeah
'did you manage to solve this?' is short enough that probably two or three flags will get rid of it
 
@IanCampbell Did you say you were missing the emoji in the post? Feast your eyes!.
 
9:01 PM
is getting the order of arguments in, for example, a javascript forEach method a typo
 
@KevinB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ dunno any more.
There seems nothing that's simple enough that someone won't mess up
I don't think it's feasible to cover every single trivial mistake on SO. I feel like at some point we have to accept that some questions just shouldn't be asked. If you have no workable knowledge of programming, there is no amount of canonicals that would help more than just a basic intro.
 
tbf the example i'm looking at seems to be giving a rather cryptic error message for the simple mistake
(and there's a language barrier)
 
@VLAZ oh, look slike the original binned question is a duplicate of that question now, given the identical answers by that user there...
 
I still think the original binned question is not on-topic. Just happens that the duplicated answer is also not on topic. It's about posting on a specific blogging platform. If it has room anywhere on SE, then it's Webapps. But I don't think it's programming-related.
 
9:27 PM
I'm out of CVs and downvotes so can't help on those posts further today, unfortunately :-(
 
I wonder how that question got 2 upvotes...
 
sympathy?
 
upvote pixies
 
make it 3 :D
 
10:32 PM
@Makyen It is as @KevinB described; it is already explained in the question why the solution to the other question doesn't work. I feel like the only edit that would make it any clearer that it is not a dupe is linking the question and writing "this is not a dupe" before the reason already given.
 
10:57 PM
@blackgreen Upvotes are every bit as important as downvotes. They are part of the system that filters result on a Google search. But the come too easily (15 rep) and are subject to misuse.
 
i wonder how many highly upvoted posts would be half as popular if the ability to downvote was as easily gained as the ability to upvote
 
So do I. But the system is what it is; and, it has been so ... forever. To change it would be to fundamentally change what SO is.
 
that would be a good thing
 
Meh! Good, bad or ugly. What we have is what we have ....
 
i'd love to change SO from what it is to what it claims to be
 
11:02 PM
Heh ... careful what you wish for!
 
@Druckles The system provides you a direct and explicit way to have the question evaluated for reopening, which is to edit it and check the checkbox which I mentioned. Unless you have, >3k rep, in which case you can vote to reopen, which will put it in the reopen queue, then editing is the way the system has for you to make that happen.
Honestly, I'm a bit confused. That a gold badge holder didn't recognize that they are different is abundant evidence that the question isn't sufficiently clear about whatever the difference is, even if it's that the gold badge holder missed it when looking at the question. Communication is something that is always at least two sided. I'm flummoxed as to why there's a refusal to at least try to make it clearer, particularly when that's the way to achieve what you've stated you wanted.
 
there's actually a decent source of data for this in the anonymous vote pool
 
As a regular reopen vote reviewer, I would like to add to Makyen's remark: just adding stuff like, "this is not a dupe" just isn't good enough. Edit the question; add a comment, if you think that will help ... but point out why it isn't a dupe.
 
@Makyen For the reasons I've already stated. Simply because they're a gold badge holder doesn't mean they read the question properly.
 
The question already pretty clearly explains why the general solutions don't work for this case
they just didn't go as far as linking to the duplicate directly
 
11:07 PM
And I think words like "flummoxed", "abundant" and "refusal" are a little extreme from the short discussion going on here.
 
I see so many posts in the reopen queue with one vote (OP or the answerer) ... but nothing significant/substantial has been changed ... result "Leave Closed" (or, at best, "Skip").
 
@VLAZ I was so confused for a long while looking at that post. Then I realized the answer author rolled back the emoji removing edit.
 
@IanCampbell No they didn't.
 
But remember, if a question has been answered, already, but it needs further details in a particular case, then it's still a dupe: the specific answer can be posted on the dupe target. I see this often, with comments like, "But that was 5 years ago, what about today?"
 
Ah, you're right. But they didn't roll it back on the other post I linked.
 
11:12 PM
Yeah, sorry for the lack of clarity.
 
I've already gone cross-eyed.
 
@VLAZ Suits you, sir!
 
OK, this is probably a silly question. But does anyone understand why SO the company has decided that Teams needed to live somewhere else and refuses to provide a link anywhere on the main site? It's like someone wanted to specifically make it impossible to go to my Teams.
 
@AdrianMole There are situations where the "specific case" would never be used for the general case. As is here. So if I were to try to cross-post the answer from the dupe over to the target, it would probably rack up downvotes because it is a sub-optimal answer to the problem. It makes no sense in that context.
 
@Druckles I'm no SME in this case; but, if what you say is true, then make it clear (either in a comment or in your edit "summary") why you think that ... and let the Community decide. That's how it works.
 
11:19 PM
shrugs still requires an edit that will add nothing of significance.
 
But you have full edit privileges. There's always something you can do to improve a post.
... although I'm not suggesting you do a 'null' edit, just to get it in the RO queue.
Anyway, that one will already be in the review queue (it now has a reopen vote), so you'll just have to wait and see.
 
Thanks :-)
Perhaps the comment will be enough.
 
11:44 PM
@Druckles And I've agreed with that. That someone hasn't read the question properly implies that it could be clearer in order to more explicitly call out the differences. Yes, the communication issue could primarily be theirs, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for the question to be better at making the differences between the question and the duplicate-target clearer.
@Druckles It's really tempting to get into a discussion of my specific word choice. I'd argue that each of the specific words you've highlighted are accurate for the situation where I used them. However, my getting into the details of my word choice doesn't really address the underlying issues.
From what you've said here, you appear to have taken offense at my statements. I was not intending to cause offense. I'm sorry you found it offensive.
I'm not sure if there's benefit to continuing this discussion. You've been provided with the information about how the system works and what you can do that's effective. What you choose to do with that information is, of course, up to you.
 

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