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12:53 AM
stackoverflow.com/q/33510/11107541 smells funny. Seems to lack focus / is too broad, but also seems like it will lead to opinion-based answers, and also asks for framework recommendations. I think the main problem is that it is too broad. Thoughts?
 
1:14 AM
This seems to be caused by a typo: stackoverflow.com/q/49592257/11107541. Asker says in comments that they set environment variables to wrong paths.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:30 AM
@david-fong please use the room conventions, this makes it easier to see what you are proposing (close, delete, flag, or reopen) and helps keep the room tidy because those requests are moved out of the room when they are handled or expired
again, the room FAQ has the full details but in brief, [tag:cv-pls], add a topic tag like or etc so those of us who are unfamiliar with the language don't spend time on stuff we won't be able to judge anyway; and finally, one of the standard close reasons
there are links to tools to help with this if you are willing to use a userscript manager like Tampermonkey in your browser
 
@tripleee ok I'll do that from now on. Thanks for teaching me!
 
sure, no worries, and again, welcome to the room!
searching for tagged/haskell is supposed to bring anything related to the tag from the room's history but the results actually are a bit imprecise (for example, there is one tagged which mentions Haskell but does not tag it)
speaking of which, we should recruit someone to look at those tags, it would bring some variation to the "can't install library" and "why does my code not work" topics we see all the time here
"excentrifugal strangely coupled monads not working"
 
 
1 hour later…
4:15 AM
@tripleee RO please trash, this was closed and reopened cc @RyanM
 
4:35 AM
@tripleee pling @CodyGray @Makyen @Machavity?
 
 
my bad. I didn't read the FAQ carefully. I'll make sure to follow it from now on. Thanks!
 
@david-fong don't worry, happens to us all. But the room does abide by that rule. If you look at the top of each question the second date after "Created" is "Modified", that last date is the one that amounts to "last activity" if you click on it you're taken to the post in the thread that was last modified.
 
@bad_coder what did I miss?
Oh, need moar coffee
 
@CodyGray Here's a decent example of what I mean about applying basic logic, in the C tag. stackoverflow.com/questions/73982499 (We'll overlook, for now, that the question asks about printing in reverse, but the approach is to try to reverse in-place and then print)
oh, [c++], but it's a C level algo.
 
5:13 AM
@rene a post with no recent activity, but it had a typo so I edited.
@rene my thoughts exactly, /leaves keyboard goes to coffee pot/
 
Cheers!
 
> There are many examples. Just try with searching for example in GitHub: github.com/search?q=intellij+live+templates
upvoted answer :p
 
@rene cheers ˗ˏˋ☕ˎˊ˗
 
5:41 AM
@SurajRao Tomato. Burn it all.
 
@SurajRao +1 for not being the accepted answer ... yet ....
Stack Overflow: Where links to external searches rise to the top
 
ah, yes. Stack Overflow, the human powered search engine. The reason the internal search sucks is because it lacks human insight.
Clearly.
"If you notice this A is already on travel in the date but in last row Same A is on another travel very next day. I need to remove this."

As a subject matter expert (Python), should I be expected to be able to make sense of task descriptions like this?
 
Yes.
 
Can someone please tell me what that sentence is supposed to mean in proper English?
 
You can always ask a question on ELL.se when unsure.
 
5:52 AM
(is this supposed to be a joke? Am I being gaslit?)
 
I'll ask on ELU.se about gaslit, hold on.
 
@KarlKnechtel I guess they have two occurrences of A in a table on subsequent dates, they want to keep only one A.
 
If A is travelling today then they can't travel tomorrow. Unless they're time-travelling.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:16 AM
How do we flag spam comments? Man that user is persistent. Two self-deleted spam answers on that post already and now a spam comment -.-
 
I don't see how linking to one's own GitHub to provide a supplementary example constitutes "spam".
If the link were added to the answer instead, with the sort of explanation that the comment currently contains, it comes across to me that it would be just fine. If you wanted such an edit, then explicitly say so, rather than just enumerating things not to do.
Better yet, edit it in yourself.
 
@KarlKnechtel see the two deleted answer there. They've two times posted an "answer" which consists of nothing but a "click on the link to my own undisclosed content". After self-deleting it twice they followed up with a comment with that exact same undisclosed content
 
@Adriaan I normally mod flag the comments, specially if the post was already nuked.
 
7:32 AM
Yes, I see the deleted answer that was posted due to failing to understand that this isn't a discussion forum; then the other deleted answer that looks like a direct response to your request for more context; then the comment that looks like a direct response to you trying to say that the link in question doesn't constitute an answer by itself.
If your specific objection is "I don't think this link adequately cites that the content is the author's own", then I disagree, because of the match between the Stack Overflow username and the Github username.
Of course, if there is policy on that matter, then I defer to it.
Actually, is there a reference link on Meta that we can give well-meaning people for undisclosed links to their own content?
 
@KarlKnechtel probably yes.
But, given the entire post is nothing but "use the code under <this link>" I still consider it spam because the entire purpose of that post is to make you click that link to their own content. So link-only/NAA at best, but given they don't clearly state that it is their own content (IMO a similar username on GitHub and SO isn't attribution) makes it spam to me
 
7:53 AM
@KarlKnechtel The canned comment from the AutoReviewComments user-script (or whatever it's called) has this link in the spam warning comment.
 
8:05 AM
What's the general consensus for closing as a dupe, when it takes more than one dupe target to cover the issue(s) raised? Like here, although that may not be the best example.
 
@AdrianMole well, if you can cover the whole question within five dupes I would say that is OK-ish. Otherwise the question should be closed as too broad?
 
@rene Meh. Sometimes, though, there is a more subtle problem and the dupes may serve as partial solutions (so could be linked in any posted answer). But I can also understand the POV of hammerers in such cases.
 
The dupes should answer the question, including the subtle problems
 
8:34 AM
Is this spam, or, given the disclosure, simple Link-Only NAA
 
@Adriaan I think NAA.
 
@AdrianMole I guess this can only be decided on a case-by-case basis. Has the question been (asked and) answered so often that you quickly find a bunch of dupe targets, or are the dupe targets partial solutions? In the latter case, in case the question is not too broad, an answer to the new question that combines the partial solutions into one, could be very useful. But it also depends on the quality of the question etc.
 
That's another point of view that I can understand.
 
9:18 AM
@AdrianMole it feels like you're still not satisfied by all the guidance thrown at you so far?
 
9:37 AM
@AdrianMole Useful may also be the guidance in the help center: "The fundamental goal of closing duplicate questions is to help people find the right answer by getting all of those answers in one place." It's not to close a question, but help the OP and everyone else who may have the same question. I guess that should help decide on how to deal with the cases you have in mind.
 
@rene I didn't really raise the issue to seek satisfaction. It was more of a general enquiry. There is bound to be some degree of difference-of-opinion on such an issue, and I don't have a problem with that.
I'm actually quite pleased with the responses from you and Jeanne - both good and valid advice.
 
10:01 AM
@tripleee SOCVR audits? Great idea!
@KarlKnechtel Yeah, I already understood: your issue is with people asking basic questions where you think that with sufficient effort, they could have solved the problem themselves. The problem with that is that (A) it's not necessarily true, and (B) with sufficient effort, all problems can be resolved without asking a question, which makes a Q&A site fail.
That's a question with a specific problem statement and code that demonstrates the problem. I do not see any significant issue with it, other than, perhaps, you subjectively think it isn't interesting or useful, which is a valid reason to downvote it, but little else.
@AdrianMole I'm not. Nobody linked the discussion we already had about this on Meta. :-)
 
@SmokeDetector is that cleverly disguised spam?
 
10:20 AM
@CodyGray Thanks for the migration! Also it looks like a request was moved to the graveyard when it hadn't been handled: stackoverflow.com/questions/73984075/…
 
@StephenOstermiller Dang. I meant to move yours, since I'd actioned it, but I must have misclicked. Thanks for the heads-up.
@sideshowbarker Why does that need example code? From my limited knowledge on the subject, the description it provides seems adequate to answer the "how-to" question.
 
@CodyGray Closing it yourself was way of making sure the graveyard is appropriate. Thanks again. :)
 
@StephenOstermiller Yes, the obvious solution to someone being buried alive is to just kill them. :-)
 
@CodyGray What does “How to add the url to cors” mean?
What is the OP actually trying to do? What do they expect to happen and what is actually happening?
What does the “The url opens in .com domain but does not open in a different domain like .de” mean?
 
10:26 AM
@sideshowbarker It sounds like you should ask for those clarifications in comments.
 
Yeah, those are "unclear" concerns, not "lacks debugging details" concerns. It's not even clear that it's a debugging question.
 
It’s a bad question that merits being closed
 
OK, but all questions merit being closed for the correct reason, regardless of how bad they are.
 
well, others are welcome to choose another close reason
with respect, I don’t agree that “needs debugging details” is an incorrect reason
It is reasonable to disagree with me on that
 
For what it's worth, I think I can answer the questions you raised, meaning that I think I understand the question. But, of course, I cannot answer with certainty, so I understand your concerns about the question's lack of clarity, and don't have a specific dispute about closing the question for that reason.
But I do have a concern about closing the question for lacking debugging details, since the question doesn't seem to be asking for help debugging anything, and it doesn't seem to lack debugging details.
 
10:28 AM
again, I disagree
it does seem so to me
it lacks an explanation of what behavior exactly the OP is expecting to see
and it lacks an explanation of what actual behavior the OP is seeing
“How to add the url to cors” means nothing to me
 
Your request said "no code"; it's not even clear to me that code would be appropriate in the context of that question.
 
nor does “The url opens in .com domain but does not open in a different domain like .de”
 
I mean, that definitely means something...
So I don't know if you're just overthinking it or what
 
so in your own words, what does that mean?
and as far as the “no code” part it gets added automatically unless I manually edit it out
 
When they are visiting their site on a ".com" domain, they can open the linked URL just fine, due to no violation of CORS, but when they visit their site on a different domain, like ".de", then they cannot open the linked URL, due to a CORS violation.
 
10:32 AM
really?
so then in those cases they must be getting some kind of error message that leads them to believe its a CORS problem, right?
where’s the error message?
 
There's a standard error message for CORS issues.
 
and anyway, they would not be running into any CORS problem simply by visiting — navigating — to any URL
no, there are multiple error messages that happen with CORS issues
a number of different error messages, depending on what the exact problem is
but as I said, they would not see those error messages anyway unless they are running some script to make a request to a site
they would not see any error messages while simply navigating to a site
 
Again, I think what was really throwing me off was the claim that the reason to close the question was that it contained "no code". All of the other points you've raised make sense to me, but the reason why it matters is, if it's not clear to me what the issue(s) are, then it's definitely not going to be clear to the asker, and thus the closure hasn't served its purpose.
 
10:57 AM
@CodyGray "Needs debugging details -- The question should be updated to include desired behavior, a specific problem or error, and the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem." is very poorly worded. That doesn't make it clear than "no code" is the purpose of that reason.
 
11:10 AM
@SurajRao Note that flagging requires 15 reputation points. Re your comment.
 
@AdrianMole ah.. thanks
I did mod flag the answer
 
Actually, it's a bit more complex than I first thought. Both the one I flagged (now retracted) and the other, highly upvoted and bountied answer, are plagiarized from the same (external) source. Will flag the older post ...
... but now I'm even more uncertain. Looks like the SO post pre-dates the external website.
This is what I sometimes refer to as "a mess". ;-)
 
@AdrianMole the "article" has the same title as the SO question stackoverflow.com/questions/44133536/…
looks like one of those the lift content from SO
 
But I can't work out which came from which.
I think I'd tend to favour the established SO user, TBH.
 
So, does that site need to be brought to the attention of SO staff? I can see no obvious or clear attribution.
 
here the article is a combination of three answers
 
SO doesnt care so much these days. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/253908/4826457
 
11:50 AM
@SurajRao But, in the case above, we get a "plagiarism feedback loop" - content is copied from SO to an external site, and then that content is (perhaps unwittingly) copied and re-posted as a new answer on SO. The nett result is the same as if it were copied directly from one SO post to another, but is it still the same level of plagiarism. And how should we handle/flag such posts?
 
it is still whole sale copy paste with just the source link added
IMO it is still plagiarism. OP just took from the external site instead of the SO answer.
 
@CodyGray You’re right — in hindsight I should have taken time to edit “no code” out of the message, and add a more-specific description. Was just being overly lazy on that one
 
@AdrianMole It's plagiarism, but be sure to link to the original SO source. We get a fair number of folks who spot "plagiarism", only for us to tell them that site copied the answer, not the other way around
 
@Machavity OK, will remember that. Did you (can you?) see my retracted flag? Would that have been about right? (I withdrew it because of the other issues discussed herein.)
 
@AdrianMole Your flag was fine. You found the original SO post. Even if the user was unaware it was copied from there, we'd still delete it (which it is)
Even if it's not strictly plagiarism (he did at least link it) it's a wholesale copy. We don't allow that
 
@StephenOstermiller What I like about “Needs debugging details” over “Needs Details Or Clarity” is that when a question gets closed for that reason, the message is “Edit the question to include desired behavior, a specific problem or error, and the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem. This will help others answer the question.”_ — and that text gives a lot more helpful and specific guidance to the OP.
the ”Add details and clarify the problem being solved” message for “Needs Details Or Clarity” is much less helpful and specific. I like that the “Needs debugging details” message explicitly states what needs to be added, and links to stackoverflow.com/help/minimal-reproducible-example so that I don’t have to do that manually in a comment
 
12:31 PM
@sideshowbarker They aren't meant to be used interchangeably though. "Needs debugging details" is supposed to be for questions about debugging a problem where the code sample has been omitted. If there isn't an error message without code, then "needs details or clarity" is supposed to be used. That distinction isn't at all clear from the close dialog.
 
It’s not clear to me that "Needs debugging details" is only supposed to be for questions about debugging a problem where the code sample has been omitted.
It seems to be meant to also be used in cases where other debugging information is missing
for example, for questions that are missing any error messages
 
But it does need to be a debugging question. So there should be a problem with code that should have an error message.
 
and for questions that are lacking any description of expected behavior and/or actual behavior
 
It is not meant at all for that case.
 
well, since it links to the MRE page, I would imagine that many people assume it’s OK to use for questions that lack an MRE — as opposed to only lacking code
 
12:35 PM
but I agree that the wording of the close reason doesn't make that clear.
 
if it’s intended to be used only for questions that are lacking code, then it should be changed to just “Needs code” rather than “Needs debugging details”
but if that change were made, we would anyway then still need a close reason for “Needs an MRE”
 
Only debugging questions need a code example.
You can ask how to implement something without providing any code.
 
So in the case where a question has code but is lacking any necessary error messages, or any description of the expected behavior, what close reason should be used?
or in other words, when a question is lacking an MRE as described in stackoverflow.com/help/minimal-reproducible-example, what close reason should be used?
 
@sideshowbarker If it is clear that there is a problem related to debugging the code, you can use "needs debugging details," otherwise use "needs details or clarity." But when you use "needs debugging details" and there is already code, you should probably add a comment saying that you are looking for something other than the example code.
 
12:46 PM
@sideshowbarker Needs debugging details is preferred for debugging questions that lack the necessary details to be answerable, whether that be the code, error message, desired behavior etc.
"Needs details or clarity" is a much broader close reason with less specific advice and guidance for that matter and since we have a specific close reason for debugging questions in "Needs debugging details", that one should be preferred for debugging questions. "Needs details or clarity" can be used for many kinds of questions, from those not in English to too broad ones.
 
1:49 PM
Can this question be closed as Needs more focus?
 
@SunderamDubey No. Why?
 
rene, Maybe Needs details or clarity.
As no code of tasks is shared.
 
Seems perfectly clear and well-focused, to me. What is it about the question that you find unclear or too broad?
 
@SunderamDubey The OP knows how to create tasks in Django-Q. They already have that working. They ask for a specific config option. Not all How-To questions need code.
 
Adrian Model, should share some code.
 
1:55 PM
Maybe Django-Q only has a commandline tool ... what code do you expect then?
 
If they had code to do what they wanted, they wouldn't need to share it by asking what the code should be.
 
rene, I haven't done like that yet.
well, I haven't cast the close vote either, just asking.
 
If you think the question lack research effort, then there is a special button you can use to express that view. But we don't deal with requests or advice about that button in this room.
 
Anyway, I am also not going to answer that question, you people do your work thanks ;)
 
I'm not sure the post improves if they add one of the schedule examples: django-q.readthedocs.io/en/latest/schedules.html
 
2:01 PM
rene, leave that matter, also its the docs of Django Q.
 
Yes. I thought the question is about django-q.
 
2:28 PM
@NathanOliver Hmm, any idea why this got closed for needing debugging details? What more details could the OP have possibly added?
 
@cigien Pretty sure one of the votes was for a dupe which was wrong, but I suspect it was closed because there are a couple different reason why the code is failing and without the MRE we can only make educated guesses. For instance if the had #include <alogorithm> and using namespace std; in their code then those would cause the same issue. I was actually trying to find a dupe target as I known I've seen questions like that before.
I don't suspect they did, because all the things from std were qualified by std::, but you never know.
 
The reason for the error is ADL finding std::min, so it's exactly the same error with or without using namespace std;, isn't it? A bit annoying that neither of the "needs debugging" close voters even bothered to mention that that's what they felt was missing, especially since that information is not pertinent to this question.
A duplicate definitely exists, of course, so there's not much point in undeleting/reopening, but the closure feels quite heavy handed.
 
@cigien Yeah. I was just about to start looking for a dupe when it got closed and then the OP self deleted so I gave up. I'm a little surprised Drew VTC'd that as it's pretty obvious to people that know C++ that this is an ADL issue.
 
I suspect it's "I know for sure it's a dupe, but it's going to take me a minute to find the target, and it only needs 1 close-vote more, so why bother" :(
 
2:47 PM
Could be. SO search is garabage and while google is great for the really obvious dupes, it can still requires going several pages into the search to finds dupes for posts like that.
 
meh
 
In the end the right things happened, just for the wrong reasons ;)
 
I think this request should be cleaned up, as the question was already closed, translated and reopened.
 
3:28 PM
I've seen this thread of English Language & Usage, I also make these kind of edits, what's your opinion?
 
@gre_gor done
 
eh, i think it's proper for that to be included in edits when fixing more than just that, but correcting some 10 year old post that's only problem is a lowercase "i"? sparingly maybe.
 
@SunderamDubey with full edit privileges it is fine to make small fixes on posts you stumble on but do fix ALL small spelling and grammar to the best of your knowledge. Not only the occurrences of a lower i.
 
put another way i think it's fine if it's edits you're doing along with a bunch of other stuff, but doing some kind of query for all cases of lowercase i that should be uppercase and blasting through them is something else, ;)
 
rene, ya I understood, but is it fine to edit "I" in place of "i"?
@KevinB Like you written "I" in smallcase. Is it wrong?
 
3:39 PM
an i is still wrong, at least where i learned English. (See what I did there?)
 
Yes, i'd consider my usage wrong
 
rene, you mean write "I" as "I" in capitalize form.
 
yes
 
@SunderamDubey I wouldn't make a ton of edits that do that. Editing is meant to fix problems with the post (like typos), not make simple grammatical fixes. Remember, edits bump a post and we can (and do) ask folks to stop doing that for minor stuff
 
@KevinB Then you hate shift key ;)
 
3:40 PM
or i just like being annoying, ;)
 
u r
 
Yes sir Machavity understood.
 
@KevinB I would love to copy-cat this: 🚽 ;)
 
3:54 PM
Is SO down for anyone?
 
v slow ...
 
@Machavity slow, but it did load.
 
All my chat windows just reloaded too
 
... v, v slow ...
Slowdown caused by rene going off to edit/correct 5,643 incorrect occurrences of "i"?
6
 
@AdrianMole An aye for an "i", I always say
 
3:59 PM
We tend to use the Plural of Majesty. ;-)
 
 
2 hours later…
5:58 PM
Is there a Java 'else' without 'if' error canonical for missing curly braces (like in this question) and not Error: 'else' without 'if' which has an extraneous semicolon at the end of the condition?
 
7:03 PM
(I'm a new 3K) Can I have advice on what- if anything- to do about this post? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/71369087/why-does-temporary-struct-member-not-have-the-expected-value-in-c
The asker found a strange behaviour on MinGW GCC 7.3, and another user said it is a bug that is resolved in later versions. Would it be appropriate to vote to close as "typo" (problem can no longer be reproduced)?
 
@david-fong It's on-topic, "It's a bug, update your version" would be a fine answer. The problem would still be reproducible if someone uses an older version of GCC nowadays.
 
@david-fong I dislike using can no longer be reproduced for bugs that have been fixed in newer versions as it is reproducible if you happen to have the version that has the bug. Personally I would try and find the bug report and answer that this is a bug, here is the link, here is a workaround for your version, and you can update to version X to get the correct behavior.
There are lots of C++ devs out there that are forced to use older versions of the compilers as those are the ones certified/verfied by their company to be "correct".
 
In contrast, something that wouldn't be reproducible no matter what software a developer is running could be closeable. (for example: "Q: Why is X API not working"? "A: They had an outage for a few minutes")
 
Yeah, temporal issues are fine being closed as no longer reproducible
 
7:09 PM
i mean
 
Ah. That gives me a better understanding of when to use that close reason. Thank you @CertainPerformance and @NathanOliver
 
aren't most issues temporal, at a certain point
 
I guess I should have used ephemeral instead of temporal.
gcc 7.3 will be around for a heck of a lot longer then and API having a temporary outage.
The US IRS still uses a mainframe that runs COBOL code
 
7:35 PM
@KevinB There's a substantial difference between using a version of a compiler which you were able to download and/or install on your own machine (i.e. still access/use it) and using an API for a service over which you have no control and where it's no longer possible to access the older version of the API.
OTOH, there are APIs where you can access older versions (e.g. the SE API has at least the 2.2 and 2.3 versions available). So, asking about issues/how to in the older version could easily be answered with "you have to work around it <this way>, but if you switch to the new version, then you can <do this>."
 
I mean, sure, but like, once the modern world is annihilated by a nuclear war and the following nuclear winter, there won't be a way to reproduce any of these issues
 
Somewhere out there there will be a bunker with a linux machine that has gcc 4.2 and vi on it ;)
 
:)
 
@CodyGray No, it is not for a me a question of finding some threshold of effort. There is a clear categorical distinction between applying logic or reasoning skills to information already presented, versus having some unknown-unknown that prevents doing research, or a misconception that mis-predicts the behaviour of some MRE code.
I don't understand why this is difficult to understand.
 
"There is a clear categorical distinction between applying logic or reasoning skills to information already presented, versus..." Ah, but herein lies the problem. Is it required that people be capable of applying said logic or reasoning skills before being allowed to participate?
 
7:43 PM
@KevinB it's not a question of barrier to participation. I am considering the question, not the asker.
 
@NathanOliver Lots of banks still use COBOL. My brother-in-law did that for years
 
is that not one and the same?
 
No, obviously not, in the same way that "we downvote questions, not people" is coherent.
(the way that the automatic question ban works is a technical problem, and it creates a whole bunch of wrong incentives in my view, just like the rep system does)
 
@Machavity Neat. From what I've raid a lot of the old mainframes used it, and a lot of those systems are hard to replace, especially the financial ones. One silly little mistake somewhere in an upgraded implementation could turn into a financial disaster.
 
If a user isn't able to get help with their problem, because we forbid anyone from asking questions that don't perform debugging/logic/reasoning steps that some arbitrary group of "experts" decided all questions should at minimum have already done?
 
7:46 PM
the point is, if you want a question in a Q&A format that can actually present the material in a way that's coherent and allows people to learn, the question needs to frame the problem in a way that make it actually a problem, in the context of the question.
"a user getting help with their problem" is explicitly aside from the mandate
That's why it says "get answers to your questions", not "get your code issue resolved"
 
it is the purpose of questions being asked, after all
The personal ownership of the question aside, that doesn't change my argument
 
it has nothing to do with expert evaluation and there is nothing arbitrary about it.
I feel like I keep hammering on this extremely straightforward point, and everyone else can't help but strawman it.
 
Afterall, the question is only a means to an end. An invitation for an answer to be provided. If the question is stated well enough that other people with the problem will find it when they search on google, the question missing some arbitrary logical/reasoning steps becomes irrelevant
 
look. There are two cases here
1) the question can potentially help other people, because other people can have the same underlying misconception (I assume that the question has passed the "typo" filter)
2) it can't because it's a typo or whatever, or utterly incoherent (nobody who reads the question can fathom OP's mental model), and it gets closed
 
🏆
 
7:55 PM
> the question missing some arbitrary logical/reasoning steps becomes irrelevant
 
> Votes apply to the post, not the person! but they do still remove/add reputation from your account and affect your ability to participate
 
I am pretty sure that my central claim here is that the steps I am asking for are not even remotely "arbitrary".
 
7 messages moved to SOCVR /dev/null - Binned delete messages
 
Following them is necessary in order to identify the Actual Question.
 
most of the time
 
7:57 PM
In the previous example, someone appeared to be asking "I have code that implements some logical cases; how do I write code that implements more logical cases?", and the answer to that is to do the same thing again.
If that were the actual question, then it would be better rewritten as "how does if work?"
but by digging in on that, we discover the alternate interpretation: the sticking point is the actual logic for the new case to add, which is also a duplicate
The framing of the question lead away from the proper answer.
I feel it's necessary to impress here that I'm largely driven by despair at the state of several Python canonicals. Many of them are awful even after extensive, years-long off-and-on cleanup efforts, to the point where the original question is barely recognizable, simply because that's the one that happened to get chosen due to age.
The site used to have standards that were nowhere near what actually makes sense for the mandate, and "too localized" was a stopgap for that
right now, it seems like the best I can do is to reason that the question is unclear: "do you really mean to ask X? Because if you don't know how to X, then how did you write this code, which already does X?"
Oh, wait. I guess there are actually sub-categories here.
Getting the logic wrong because you don't actually think about what you're doing, is different from overlooking that you've already done something and can do the same thing again.
 
or... just... this a bad/uselesss question, downvote, move on, go next. I don't see the point in dwelling on such useless QA pairs
SO's search sucks
deleting 5 million quesions won't make it not suck
 
deleting 5 million questions will make external search engines suck less.
because they will be things that don't spam the results.
I mostly find these things when I'm trying to use an external search engine to figure out a canonical. They are often about something that is completely unrelated to the canonical I'm hoping exists.
 
do you use a search engine that doesn't keep any context on your past searches, and doesn't take into account how often people click on a given result?
 
I use a search engine that respects my privacy, yes, but on the occasions that I have tried Google, it doesn't help.
 
because, i mean, external search engines can be just as crap as SO's
 
8:09 PM
For example, if I try the search google.com/…, the first result is the canonical (which has millions of views and is the most upvoted Python question on the site); but the second result has a score of +0 and only a couple hundred views.
 
i mean, that's not surprising, that's how a lot of rankings work. You have 1 result that has the majorty a second that is way lower than that but above the rest, and then the rest
 
just one offhand example.
There are many other popular questions about yield that end up further down for inscrutable reasons.
 
the one at the top is more likely to be clicked than any other, and will generally always be the one that gets displayed unless something really powerful shuts it down. See w3schools showing up at the top of every html/css/javascript search
 
And when I try to search for a canonical for, for example, "how do I produce a string that is N copies of the original string consecutively?", I can't get anything, and I get tons of misleading results. I tried so many different ways to phrase that question
(because there are so many people who want to do that and also do something else, and the "something else" is easy to find a canonical for)
 
At least w3schools is a 7.3 million times better resource than it used to be.
 
8:13 PM
🤮
 
@StephenOstermiller oh? did they, like, start actually caring about what various web standards actually say?
 
@KarlKnechtel I think they realized MDN was gonna eat their lunch if they didn't
MDN is still better, but W3Schools at least cleaned a bunch of junk up as a result
 
8:45 PM
@ThierryLathuille how isn't there a duplicate for this -.-
 
@Machavity maybe they should upgrade to W4Schools
 
9:21 PM
The other thing about lack of debugging effort is that you get questions that are asked and answered and accepted as being about having the wrong indentation and thus getting an IndentationError (which we have a canonical for, and so I just dupe-hammered it)... and where the title is (see if you can guess)
the title was Python prints memory address instead of a list when using __repr__ __str__?
and the answers don't address that topic, which is a shame, because that's the canonical I was looking for.
And this kind of thing gets upvoted, apparently.
 
9:55 PM
First of many like this. As I mentioned in this Meta post, there are upwards of 35 questions that can be answered the same way. :-/
Recommend closing as duplicate rather than off-topic so that we point back to a "good" version of the question.
 
10:15 PM
Yesterday? in this room I was trying to justify a question as having sufficient attribution (don't have an easy way to find it now, or figure out who I was talking to). I now I think I was wrong, per policy: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/299621
 

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